They always say, Other Countries have it and that’s true. But they get a service for their property tax, Bins lifted etc. But we’ll get none of that, Bins are privatised, Water will be too, we have road/fuel taxes to pay for roads apparently. What will all you obedient property tax payers be getting for your money, NOTHING!

Also remember, they said they haven’t touch income tax! Where will the money be coming from, to pay this tax? Your INCOME, another lie told by Enda and the bluebottles!

Indeed, other countries do have these taxes. We therefore should follow their example, then we should immediately remove VRT from cars as we are the only EU country with it. They cant have it both ways.

Or toilet roll?

Niall do not let them divide and conquer . Those in social are liable for it too and it will be taken at source if necessary . I would suggest you read the bill all 65 pages before you allow your fears dictate to you. Here is a link. http://www.moneyguideireland.com/category/property-tax

Thanks for that. That must be new. Under the household charge guide lines- properties own by government departments are exempt. That means that a lot more than 500 000 are eligible to pay. Still haven’t received my letter though.

Niall .
The media are not telling it all either . We have to look up this stuff for ourselves , go to meetings etc. Take a breath and find out first what is happening. We all have until May 7th to declare and register if that is what you want to do. We are asking people not to do anything until at least May 1st. Boycott it until at least the last minute. See how many people are with you and then we will take it from there. 700,000 people have boycotted the HHC . we are all not mad loonies or wrong. We are ordinary decent people BTW that number does not include the people who were exempt .
Good luck Niall.

Michael Collins
1: I don’t believe in social classes and I don’t like what You are implying I insulted a man that has destroyed the country my parents worked hard in all their lives never got into debt lived within their means.
2: I can voice my opinion when and where I see fit. If you don’t like what I say please don’t read.
3: I feel I have a right to be angry have attend friends funerals , No job no hope thanks to mr noonan and his buddies
4: I and my family are very respectable.
5: I am being forced out of my own country by that useless shower so I will voice my opinion as for my “language” which I don’t normally use, I think it fits considering.
6: maybe you feel it’s your duty to TROLL through comments and voice your opinion on everyone else’s opinion , as far as I can see anyone who gets offended when I call mr noonan a name has little respect for themselves what he is doing to your fellow citizens, I would hang my head in shame.

@Seamus, it’s only a “bill” when you have used a service, what have you used or requested for this charge?

Fully agree. I’ve worked hard in college for 5 years and have worked hard at my job for the past 8 years, and I’ve nothing to show for it. I can’t even get a mortgage now.

Meanwhile, my girlfriends irresponsible friend has 2 kids, no job and is hoping her house gets repossessed because “the council will giz a bigger one inanyway!!!!!”

I’ve had enough of this communist crap!

Well said Creamy H

Most people can never get a mortgage. Look at Europe; most people rent.
Houses aren’t small time investments, sticking a euro a week into the credit union or post office account: that’s a small time investment.
Buying a house is the biggest thing an individual will ever buy, and people should remember that if you buy one, you have obligations. Household charges and property tax are not nice, but they are the norm.
Loose the sense of entitlement, you’re entitled to nothing, not even the clothes on your back. Pay up, and be done.
(I’m saying this as a new home owner).

Haretoday – people in Europe rent on the basis of a rent-to-buy scheme where you eventually own the house if you stick with it.

However, we do not have that system here and we are expected to have a mortgage paid off by the time we retire.

If we all stay renting, where’s the rent money going to come from during our retirement??? PEOPLE NEED TO REALISE THIS NOW!

There’s a huge social issue coming down the line if this problem is not addressed!

Yes Haretoday property taxes are the norm across Europe but, and its a big but, for these taxes people get services. What services do we get here? We pay for refuse collection, we will soon be asked to pay for water, we pay through the noses for health care, we pay a fortune for education, the cost of child minding is mind boggling. Also they generally have less politicians per head of population and what politicians they do have get paid less.

You fail to mention that most Europeans rent to buy flats. (48%). In Ireland that is 5%.
Yes, I agree, there are several social catastrophes coming towards us, but we’re not exactly helping the situation by talking about owning more houses, now are we?

Tara, then feck off to another country if you don’t like this one.

Haretoday? Entitled to nothing? Look at the constitution. We’re entitled to quite a lot actually. We’re entitled to personal freedom. We’re entitled to fair Government. We’re entitled to protest if we don’t like what’s happening. They have property taxes in Europe? So what? As my father would say ‘ if Europe jumped off a cliff would you do it too’? Ridiculous argument.

Haretoday…flats/houses/caravans, it’s irrelevant!

My point is – you cannot pay rent when you retire!

The norm? Since when? Since 2011!!?? Just because, just because we are f()@ing broke for taking on a european debt? Moron, moron and moron the lot, I think while we’re at it we should try and pay Greece’s debt and Spain’s!! F&@k yea why not? We’re paying French and German bank s debts off and getting medals!! Wohow!! Thick paddy….I am not ashamed of my country but an ashamed if its spineless, Unpatriotic bunch of pathetic mindless extremist party followers, reminds me if the nazis regime….people couldn’t think for themselves, just a bunch of uneducated followers…..remember – “nothing that is morally wrong can be politically correct” and everything about the system today is morally wrong……

It’ll be a great little country with only you left Paul M C

I always said that. At least if we stayed British we’d still have our own money and wouldn’t be following merkel like a lap dog.

@Christopher- there’s an airport out in Swords, one in Cork, Waterford, Galway and Tralee. There are regular flights to the UK. Bon voyage. By the way- wait til you see their property tax.

And wait until he sees what they get for their property tax Vincent, SERVICES.

@declan. Their bins. That’s it. €1800 per year in Newry

Vincent, they get loads of other services too. Education for kids etc.!

@stephen- I’m pretty sure Irish kids get educated too. Yep. I’ve definitely schools around the place.

Vincent maybe you need to do a but more checking. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_Tax#section_4 and scroll down to the how it is spent section.

Agree Stephen. We bought our house in 1993 for £27,000, about €42,000. We didn’t pay the huge stamp duty people paid recently but the interest rates at the time went up to just under 14%. If we tried to sell now what would we get for it? A similar house in our terrace has been for sale for over 12 months with not a sniff of a buyer. What is the “market value” of this house.? Let the government buy my house off me for what they consider its worth and I’ll move back in as a council tenant.

I hope everyone in the Country, undervalues their house to 50k or less and clog up all the courts with challenges!

@Stephen- don’t blame us because you made a bad investment.

Stephen
You are basically saying that you want the Irish State to fail! Now we know where you’re coming from and the level of intelligence behind your opinions.

STATE failure is actually a very good option , it will give us the opportunity to fix the broken system

Who’s a sponger, in your hidden little right-wing world?

Your right Vincent, disagreeing with me doesn’t make you a troll, neither does it make you right. However most of your comments do point to you taking a certain degree of pleasure out of trying to get a rise out of people. On another point did you ever find out why you were banned from commenting on The Journal?

if you CAN’T take it, you shouldn’t give it….

@declan- accusing people of being a troll is a very determined effort on your part to undermine other people’s argument so you can apologise to me at your leisure.

Here here Paul but if the banks need a couple of billion here and there no problem ,advisers for ministers need a fifty grand bonus no problem ,while not a word about the bank bailout and not a screed of evidence as to what happened that night of treason upon the irish people ,people thought this goverment may be a solution to the problems we face in this country now you know they are part of the problem .

Dermot, we voted them in, vote them out again.
I don’t see too many people protesting or marching on Kildare street.
When we get a turnout of over 250k on the streets then the problem will be addressed.
Everybody is too comfortable to get off their backsides and do something about it.
Loads of people bitching but very few on the streets.

Paul
The problem with that silly bravery is that you will also have to pay interest , late charges and penalties. Yes refusal to pay is a very bright option!

Michael so taking a stand is “silly bravery”. If more people were willing to get up off their asses and take a stand this country would be in a much better place now. But too many people are content to have a bitch and a moan at home or down the local then shrug their shoulders and say “shur what can we do about it”. It might be costly to make a stand but we need to do it.

Joe, exactly, tear it up and start again!

If you are in receipt of MIS you may be entitled to a waiver….. from the website
“Only those who receive Mortgage Interest Supplement are entitled to a Waiver of the Household Charge. Your Local Community Welfare officer has a register of those who are in receipt of the Mortgage Interest Supplement.”

Christopher
they are bullies . Apply for a waiver and see if you are entitled. Take it step by step.
They are cowardly bullies and it is just the start of it. They have an operation of fear all organised no doubt to make you and me buckle. But if we stand side by side we will strengthen each other . Go to a local meeting when you can . Get active in the campaign . Meet people who like you who can not afford this tax and who refuse to be bullied.

@eileen- yes. Bullies for insisting on citizens being tax compliant. They’ll be taking money directly out of our wages next. Oh wait………€100 please.

Vincent, do you get pleasure out of seeing people suffer? Are you so far removed from the realities that exist today, you’ve become heartless and cruel?

@stephen- quite the contrary. Tough times all round. That’s why it’s so important that everyone pays their taxes so that services can be preserved where possible. I’m anti-sponger.

Sinead, the point is that we do not want this tax regardless of ability to pay it. Income should be taxed. What you have left after tax should not be taxed. Those that don’t spend their income on beer and fags but instead save and invest in their houses are being taxed again. Yes, those who spend on beer are paying VAT but so are those who spend on their houses so effectively they’re being triple taxed. It’s unfair.

Mark Stewart – I think you will find my comments regarding MIS waivers were in response to Christopher Gardiner’s post above about not being able to afford to pay the tax due to his circumstance, and offered no insight into my personal feelings on the tax.
It is intended as a constructive solution to an issue raised; Christopher’s inability to pay.
The problem identified was “I cannot afford to pay”; the solution offered was “seek assistance/ waiver”.

Ok Sinéad..good point

If you can’t sell it, the government says its worth so much? Then get them to buy it off you for that price, If they’re willing to pay whatever amount they say it’s worth and If they refuse? Then it’s worth nothing, no can buy it or get a mortgage to buy or will only pay what they offer for it!

It just means that you are looking too much for it

@patrick- you’re going to find you have a small problem there.

Unless youre exempt and not telling us, you will…

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/category/property-tax
Of particular note and the one I said I would draw your attention to is the following :
What if I get sent a Property Tax return in my name but I do not own the property?
Where a return is sent to person who is not the liable owner – they must advise the Revenue Commissioners in writing ,within 30 days of the receipt of the notice – including any relevant supporting documentation and details of the correct owner . If you do nothing the property tax will become payable by you

The Author of the article did not hioghlight the above ” whistleblower’s Clause’ which in effect has turned our country not just into an economy any more but into a POLICE STATE . Where by they expect family members to report to the department who is liable for this tax or face the equivalent fee as a fine . Nice People these blueshirts ?

@eileen- Sometimes I fear Fine Gael might not get your vote at the next election. That’ll be €100 please.

Having worked in a bank, I’ve seen that the majority of bonds issued by a bank are bought up by private pension and insurance funds. I suppose your going to begrudge people with a pension or life assurance now?

Well said Conor. I keep saying on these pages that I’m a Bondholder when someone scream that they have a right to know who we are. As soon as I make the declaration they disappear into the ether. They just don’t understand , do they?

Most people don’t have an issue, with people making a living and doing an honest days work. But If our dear Leaders want the people to follow them for the betterment of the Country, then they’d want to start with themselves and work their way down. I don’t mean pittance, I mean real cuts!

Conor if that’s the case why are so many pension funds in serious trouble? Surely if their the bond holders we’re paying back they should all be hunky dory.

But liabilities are always taken from the deceased’s estate before the estate is distributed …. That is done in every country in the world … That will include money owed to creditors as well as revenue … There’s nothing immoral about it it common practice

Just because it is common practise here or elsewhere does not make the practise right or moral.

No Eileen, but it makes it justifiable, which is far more important.
Your comments are hilarious. They show a complete lack of understanding. Good luck fighting the loosing fight.

@eileen- you really should be spending your time saving up that €100

Danielle, market conditions, if it is part of the cost of renting then its added to the rent, you either pay the rent or move.
Will all level out over the next few years.
Your choice to rent at the prices landlords charge or buy a property.
Pretty simple choice, if you cant afford to buy you have to rent.

To be honest I think that it makes sense for it to be added to the rent. The tennents are the one using the property so it make more sense for it to come from there. I was just wondering is this what is happening or are landlords with multiple property’s incurring all the costs themselves.

If you own property and are renting it out it is because you want to make a profit, if one if the costs incurred in maintaining a property is tax then this cost is added to the bottom line.

Danielle
That’s a foolish question !

Well Micheal j collins, I don’t think it is because while I agree with the tennents paying the tax because they yare the ones using the property, it is not the landlord who owns the property paying. So is it not in turn then a rental tax not an ownership tax and thus meaning that the landlord still liable to pay.
Can the powers that be look for payment again from the house owner since it was not them who made the original payment?

No question is foolish in the pursuit of intellect

If its intended to be a progressive tax targeting the wealthier of society it should fall on those with investment property, obviously richer than the consumers of rental properties. It should also make the buy to let market less attractive and push more investors money into savings propping up the banking sectors or spending helping the economy

Also rental incomes are stable and even rising in Dublin. You can buy a property to rent for 1/2 what you could before and get the same returns from renting it thus there should be little net loss for them to bear the tax.

Wow, only took 3 replies for Godwins law to be realised *slow clap*

Godwins Law, Whingers, moaners! Are these the words used to dis-arm a legitimate argument, Irish people sick to the back teeth of being used as cash-cows to bailout the mistakes and incompetence of others. Are all the FG footsoldiers on here, trying to diffuse a ticking bomb and scared of what’s coming!

Colditz was run by the wehrmacht.

People here prone to the dramatic should think about what real dictatorships are like. You wouldn’t even get the chance to make a comment.

Yes times are crap but they could be much worse.

Look, you can’t tell people one minute to stand up for themselves and demand explanations. Then the next, call them whingers and moaners for doing it. Godwins theory is being used a lot, because people feel oppressed by Blueshirt Facists and their Mock Labour cheerleaders. It’s liike the 1930’s all over again, Enda is being the goodboy for Angela and furthering his own EU career!

I really don’t think you understand what fascism is….

Stephen, the point is that you still don’t understand what fascism is and what the regimes were. Please at least know what you are talking about before you go off on one of your little tangents comparing our elected representatives (yes we did elect them) to fascist totalitarian regimes.

Conor, I know what facism is and comparing it to the bunch we have in this Government. I’d say most people, would be ok with it and feel things are so bad. That, its getting more difficult, to see the difference!

You still don’t get what I’m saying, exactly what makes our government comparable to a fascist regime? In fact logically the Irish government would be at polar opposites to fascism with our high levels of welfare, free education and laws against discrimination due to age, sex, race and sexual identity. Could you please answer how exactly we live in a fascist society?

While its not fascist it’s approaching it ” a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism” and promoting a European nationalism and ideology. Sure, we elected our dictator, same difference..

Actually our Taoiseach is answerable to the Dail, Senate and the President, he’s not a dictator since there is a term limit on his office. Secondly the government have hardly been controlling the media and disallowing public protests so again you are false. Thirdly, conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy.

Conor

Firstly, do you read what other people write? I didn’t say he was a dictator, I said it’s a situation that we are approaching.

Secondly, he is really answerable to no one. The Ceann Comhairle is (ex) Fine Gael and throws out dissenters. The Seanad is a useless representative body with no real power and our President has nominal powers which are never used and he’s merely a figurehead. The Dáil can put forward a motion of no confidence but as long as FG/Labour TD’s do what they’re told then this will always be voted down. The power of recall that the people had was removed in the 80′s.

Thirdly, you can see that the press is controlled in the country. RTE are state funded and there is a pro-Government bias. Denis O’Brien won’t allow any criticism of his cronies in any of the media that he controls. We are met with a barrage of spin on a daily basis from press advisors to the Government. As to public protest, we have to apply to the Gardaí for permission if we want to protest. They tell us if, when and where we can. The Gardaí are paid by and work for the Government. Is this freedom?

Fourthly, ostrich, ostrich, ostrich.

Hehe!

The money you’re paying, is paying off unsecured bondholders debts and if you’re happy with that instead of burning them. That’s your baby, don’t come on here high and mighty. Because you love paying more taxes, than you should be and your Master is never wrong. Most people in this Country, can see it for what it is and you refuse too!

Stephen, cut the crap. Even if the bondholders never existed, we’d be paying this tax. Anyway its a moot point now. You will pay. And you’ll pay more than I did…

O’Reilly
Actually we are special. We see ourselves and our families as being MORE IMPORTANT than the said bondholders . You are the one who has labelled yourself as being ”not special” because you are doing as you are told and following orders . You are the one who does not see the how you are being treated by dear leader. If he can get you do robotically follow orders and toe the line unquestioningly, then you have turned into a nobody ….
As for the rest of us , we object to this dictatorship.

Gerry, you’re not paying your way, you’re paying their ways.

Seriously, what are you getting for the taxes you pay? Did you ask for an itemised receipt, on where your money is going and I hope you’re getting value for money? But like the good boy in Enda’s class, you’ll brown-nose his backside and bend over whenever he asks you too!

O’Reilly
You want to pay? Away with you and pay. But remember you are paying for yourself and no one else. You are certainly not carrying anyone unless you count the Government.
Everyone has a breaking point and I’m at mine with this ponsi scam our Government is making us foot the bill for. I’m not paying into a bondholder compo fund and that as they say, you can take to the bank .

Eileen
I think pet that it’s something to do with living in a democracy and having a written Constitution. If you missed those bits you have some catching up to do but basically we elect them and then they can enact laws which you must obey. Simple isn’t it? Now instead of leeching off your neighbours be a good citizen and pay your lawfully imposed taxes. At one time being respectable was all we had as a people but Eileen being a tax evader makes you way less than respectable and a leech.

Rommel, if you’re at breaking point, get the deferral.

Much as I disagree with some obvious pro-FG posters,the irony of those saying they won’t pay is that they will possibly end up paying ‘bond holders’ three times what advocates of the tax pay,so in protesting,you are merely lining the pockets of those you despise three fold,I paid a late fine of €27,at the end of the day,I wish I’d paid €27 less

If we lived in a culture of landlordism, we wouldn’t be liable for the household charge. Only the landlords would.

Do you want him to live in a bloody cave in abject poverty! Starving, before anyone is classed as not being able to afford it?! The sooner these blue shirts fascists are out of government the better…..the better for ORDINARY CITIZENS!

Are you seriously saying that Christopher or any other Irish person is not entitled to have a tv or laptop, while bank bondholders are compensated, at taxpayers expense,100 cent in the euro for investing in failed banks? While senior bankers and civil servants, who should be unemployed and unemployable for their incompetence, continue to receive gold-plated salaries and benefits at taxpayers expense.
Staggering!!

Last time I checked internet access was cheaper than the cost of a daily “news”paper. Should people be cut off from newspapers until they satisfy Noonan’s criteria as compliant citizens?
If it weren’t for the internet, boldholders payments and Government spin would be totally unchallenged except by maybe a few decent journos out there. See RTE for example of the former.

But thatsit for all the things you mentioned we get a bill telling us what the money is for. What is the household charge for? Services we are told. What services? This is an unfair, unjust extra tax on people. If it was a fair system I would have no problem paying up but it’s not a fair system. Why are people living in council houses exempt? Are they not using the same “services”? Why can’t they apply for the exemption and if they are entitled to it get it, if not pay up. A lot of people in council houses genuinely can’t afford to pay, but a lot of people in private houses also genuinely can’t pay either.

Nowadays one needs a phone and Internet to perform a job or to look for a job, so that we can be productive little slaves and keep our masters in the style to which they are accustomed.

A person occupying a house owned by a local authority or voluntary housing body will not need to pay the tax- similar to a person renting a privately owned house. The local authority (LA) house is exempt, as the LA is the owner, and it is the LA who is collector for the tax. So it’s like a private owner invoicing themselves as occupier for the tax, then paying it as landlord; it comes out of the same account. It falls to the LA to charge their tenants for services through the rent they charge them.
This is all IMO, neither in agreement or disagreement with taxes, just my interpretation of why the exemptions exist.

I just dont get it. You are in reciept of social welfare.. whos going to pay for this stuff?

The judges, that will oversee these cases are picked and appointed by An Taoiseach. How do you expect to get justice, unless you have the funds to challenge it the whole way to the Supreme Courts or European Courts? We’ll have to start a fund raiser, to challenge, the independence of judges picked by government politicians. All the present judges, were picked by FF/FG/Labour and they are the ones imposing these sanctions on people!

I hope you’re still as positive when they do finally take it off you cause one way or another its going to happen, I think we just need to accept that. Unfortunately when it does catch up with you you’re going to have to pay more than the people that did pay because of All the late fees that will be applied. I admire people wanting to stand up to the government but when are people going to realise they will pay eventually one way or another

Louise, I understand you’re scared and that’s how bullies operate. You do what you have to, but you can still fight from within, don’t give up and keep the faith!

Who is in receipt of social welfare O’Reilly ?
there is nothing wrong with receiving social welfare .
So what are you implying ?
You don’t know what or from whom I receive anything .
Do not presume that you know anything either .
I pay my taxes every month .
I will boycott this joke of a tax for as long as I can.

No not scared or bullied by anyone Stephen, I was simply just stating a fact that everyone will end up paying up one way or another and all the people that have been standing up and fighting will end up paying more than the rest that did pay. I would rather pay now or stopped at source than have my kids inheritance taken off them when I’m gone, that’s just my opinion but each to their own.

@eileen- you do realise how you’re coming across on this, don’t you?

Eileen
You’re becoming aggressive and that makes your ranting all the more childish. I’m sure you’re not on Social Welfare because you already told us on these pages that you took early retirement from the Public Service and that you are thus a well heeled pensioner.
The constant incitement to break the law by you Eileen makes an academically interesting case when you are ultimately brought before the Courts for tax evasion. By then the penalties and late charges and interest will hardly be set aside by any judge when your current behaviour is so damaging to society. Please remember that none of the foregoing is in any way unusual or out of the ordinary within the world of tax. I would say you’ve been cocooned within the PAYE system since you started in your sinecure many years ago but now you’re in the real world and getting yourself into a whole heap of trouble.

This is not Twitter.

We live in a country where if the goverment wants money out of you they will get it one way or the other. They will keep pounding people until they give up or until they have ruined their lives…. Hate living here now at this stage.

One word for you Katie, “BONDHOLDERS” !

Well Katie I hope you never see a poor day. A REALITY for thousands in this country now. It must be nice to live completely out of touch with reality. Tell me this. How would pay a mortgage and bills and food on 186 euro a week???? When you have the intelligence to answer that then I will listen to you. We do NOT HAVE 100 euro to give. Simple as that. You cannot get blood out of a stone and if you still can’t get that I suggest you get a ladder and climb down from your pedestal, wake up and smell the coffee.

@Christopher, do you have UPC/ Sky? A smartphone with mobile phone bill monthly? Did you holiday abroad during the year? Go out drinking this weekend? If any of the above are answered ‘yes’ then you don’t know poverty my man.

We have no UPC or Sky at home. Free to air is a great service, you have to laugh, but yet we pay ?160 tv licence…. For what?? Its enough to pay and yet too much.

Christopher, apply in the proper way for a waiver if you’re a genuine case. And anyone else. Otherwise, pay up…

@Christopher I’m self emplyed, I barley make minimum wage, have a mortgage and am single, yet I still pay ALL my taxes even though I don’t want to. People have to realise we can’t keep blaming others for our misfortune, just go out and try your best. and Believe in yourself.

Yup but they haven’t. They will pay it eventually now that it is added into the property tax

Positivity is great. But letting yourself get walked on is not. What will it take for you to say ‘enough’ and stand up for yourself?

@sean- feel free to leave.

@katie- can I just say I feel compelled to agree with anything you say. It’s like a compulsion. I can’t imagine why that is but please don’t tell me to vote Fianna Fáil or Sinn Fein. Please.

Christopher
Stop using the Internet as it would save as much as a tender every week.

Um Katie? We can’t keep blaming others for our misfortune??? Eh yes we can actually, the banks, bondholders, the golden circle, the greedy property developers and the government! But somehow they’ve all gotten away with it and the poor/working class have taking the blame? And just as all the above want, we’re fighting amongst ourselves and turning a blind eye to their crimes! Nice one Ireland!

@karolyn- so everyone but ourselves. How refreshing.

O’Reilly, you’re a smug git. Because you paid you think you have the right to judge others? Does it give you the moral high ground? You forget that FG and Enda K were elected with an anti property tax stance. So your argument of ‘you elected them’ is null and void. Also just because a Govt passes laws it does not mean that it’s citizens must put up and shut up. If we feel they are unjust we have a right and an obligation to voice our disapproval. A majority (IMO) feels that this is unjust so our elected representatives should take note and represent us. Your petty condescension and name calling do not constitute a part of debate. Rein yourself in!

@vincent… Well I certainly didn’t cause it, I’ve only lived within my means maybe you did but why should we pay for your mistakes?

@mark- actually when a law is passed the population is expected to put up and shut up. Thats why its the law. Also- we elect leaders not followers. Government that frames only populist policies are a disaster. Remember Fianna Fail????? Real shocker that you point out the majority are against an extra tax. Who’d have thought????

@Karolyn- funny. I’ve never met anyone who admitted going nuts or being financially irresponsible during the Celtic Tiger. Strange that, isn’t it? Especially when you look at the sales of cars, houses, holidays etc during the Celtic Tiger. By the way- we all “benefitted” from lower taxes, higher benefits, better services as FF divided up the spoils of the country’s excesses- and the people voted them in three times. So yes, there is a collective responsibility on the part of the nation.

Vincent, actually no, the population is not expected to put up and shut up. They are expected to obey the law, while it lasts, but are not required to not protest or voice discontent. Yes we elect leaders, on the basis of election promises and moral fortitude. When it turns out that these are nothing but lies, we are allowed to voice our discontent and look for new leaders. We do not elect followers yet it turns out that most of Fine Gael and Labour are just that, blindly following the party line regardless of what they feel to be right.

I think you’ll find that most people are not against paying taxes, we need services and a functioning Government. What people are against here is an unjust tax that provides nothing in the way of Government or services, it goes to pay back bankers and bondholders and corrupt politicians. I used to vote Fine Gael, Vincent, but I can see when the worm turns. Why can’t you? Without blaming FF. can you justify the payment of ALL this debt including unsecured? Can you justify the lack of political reform that was promised? Can you justify Enda’s backtrack on the property tax as being immoral? I imagine that only when you feel a bit of pain in your pocket that you’ll begin to question and dissent but by then it may be too late.

@mark- the country’s broke. No money. Zilch. Just death. Now we can all sit here and wish it weren’t so but that won’t fix anything. Enda changed his position on the household charge? The collapse of the Celtic Tiger will cause those changes. You don’t like new taxes? Me neither. But the state needs more money, so what can you do? You certainly don’t get to pick & choose the ones you think are fair. Don’t want to pay the bondholders? Me neither. But the Troika that’s bankrolling this country insist that we do, so hands are tied there. So what’s left? Slowly, steadily rebuilding. It’s a pity you feel betrayed. But if you ever believed anything other than cuts and taxes would follow the election, your expectations were unrealistic.

Firstly, Enda put forward his views on property tax after the demise of the so-called Celtic Tiger, not that there ever was one. He has reneged on this post election.

Secondly, you ignored my questions.

Thirdly, I never said I didn’t want new taxes, just unjust taxes. I think an increase in income tax on high earners would be more fair. Also I can decide which taxes I think are fair and I can decide which to pay. There will be consequences for my actions but so be it. I’ll go to jail. I always expected cuts and taxes but I expected real reform, constructive cuts and just taxes. I expected our leaders to lead by example, I expected bankers and developers to face consequences.

Lastly, the country is broke BECAUSE of the Troika and the European debt that we shouldered. Austerity does not bring a country out of recession. Our Govt didn’t even try to get a deal. We could borrow on the market if we weren’t saddled with billions of euros of debt that we don’t owe. Even just accepting that situation, the Govt should be demanding a write-down of the debt, at least 50% or refuse to pay anything. Show some guts and leadership. Let the politicians take a huge cut to pay, pensions and severance payments and exorbitant expenses, then maybe we would be happy to shoulder extra cuts and taxes.

“reposess your property”. Over their (and possibly my) dead body. I would be prepared to go to jail, which I believe should clear the debt, but if ANYBODY tries to interfere with my property then I will take ANY & ALL steps to protect it, including taking their lives. I spent most of my adult life providing my family with OUR home and NO ONE will take it away.

Jail costs us, the tax payers more money… A better solution would be just to garnish your salary, benefits or pension

Great to see a bit of passion if they try take your home over not paying unfair taxes and paying back corrupt banks you won’t be the only one stopping them taking your house, we will unite together ! People keep arguing with each other, we didn’t cause this , why should we pay this tax I wouldn’t mind paying taxes If my so called leader wasn’t getting paid more than the president of the United States. Anyone support that man and his party, what is wrong with ye at all ! No morals , once yer doing fine who cares about the rest!