In honesty I could say this is a very tough job and is more to do with councilling than anything else.
Priests get paid for teaching so why not that.
I would like an experienced person near by for a family member who has lost someone or someone who found out they have cancer. A lot of people turn to faith at this time for help.
This is probably money well spent considering the amount of suicides in this country

@Rodrigo,

Hookers & Cocaine!

….. No?

Why not spend the money on an actual counsellor then?

I’d much rather see the money spend on a counselor,

How exactly can a priest console a husband or wife who have just lost their other half when in reality the priests can never and will never know what its even like to have a wife, husband or a partner. (unless they have a bit of the side which isn’t known by the church)

How can a priest console a parent who’s lost a kid when they don’t even know what its like to have kids? Again they also can and will never know unless they leave the church or do abit on the side.

Barry
The chaplains come from all faiths and are trained specifically to deal with issues surrounding illness and death. I think you will find that they are better qualified than counsellors.

With counsellors, you could be waiting months for a meeting. A chaplain is a bit more informal with their time.

And a lot of people would turn to faith, not just counselling.

Susan and for the people who don’t want a faith based support? Where do they turn to for support? HSE should be for everyone.

Do all counsellors have partners/husbands/wives/children Barry?

I for one didn’t know they were payed, amazed, but then again why shouldn’t they be payed, are they supplied by their church or do they interview ???
See them in work, they are excellent at what they do,

Just on a note – chaplains of all faiths carry out work for the HSE. They are a great comfort to many people, not necessarily just those who “believe”.
I don’t see what the problem is here, unless they’re getting paid from another source as well for the carrying out the same job?

Dave, I was just pointing out the difference between a counsellor and a chaplain.

Chaplains can also work in a secular way. They may not offer faith support if the patient/person does not want it. They will not force their religious beliefs on anyone.

Susan I do accept your point. I just think its possible for the HSE to come up with support staff that are not rooted in faith or have that link at all.

Good man Barry, only married counselors for married people. Only counselors with children for people with children. On homosexual counselors for homosexual ppeople. Dont let you “anti church” side shine through

A lot of chaplains are lay people not priest and are hired to support people spiritually who request it I am an atheist but chaplains gave great solace to both my parents when they were terminally Ill and to us as a family. However I would totally disagree that they are better qualified than professional counsellors like psychologists and social workers who are therapeutically trained in different modalities in empirically based interventions

I’m not Christian but I’ve taken the time to talk to a priest looking for some logical guidance, I may not believe in what he believes in religiously but I can surely appreciate his opinion plus I find sometimes a counsellor can be a little too logical and robotic not all but some.

If chaplains are of all faiths then why does the national association of chaplains have a quote from Ephesians 3:20-21 on their homepage? Also does this mean that we have to employ a chaplain of each faith group in each hospital, Would it not be more sensible to have professionally trained councillors who can help everyone regardless of faith.

http://www.nahc.ie/hse_info/index.html

There’s a priest in Limerick – his wife died and he decided to become a priest. He also had 2 children with her.

*counsellor

I’m curious do Priests take a vow of poverty when they become priests ? Someone said that these chaplains are lay people ? Is that true ? If they didn’t get paid would they still do the work ?
Is the work that they do considered charitable ? Do they pay tax ? Do they get expenses ? It would be interesting to see a chaplains perspective ?

More questions . Are they entitled to statutory redundancy ? Holiday pay ? Pension ? Do they work full time ? Are their hours flexible ? Do they get a car ? Are they classified as a public servant ?

It’s a generous salary . Do they also get overtime ?

I don’t think he goes around the wards forcing his believes on anyone. Maybe it might have something to do with most people in Ireland being catholic. Even the British navy have chaplains on their boats.

That is the point. The majority of Irish people are Catholic. I did, however, think that his was a voluntary role or secondment fro a Parish.

James, don’t be too sure….religion does appear to be pushed on people.

While the priests may not go forcing their belief’s on people the HSE seems to automatically class people as catholic upon admission without even asking!

Twice I’ve had top request that the HSE remove their addition that I am a catholic on my file, twice!
They never asked me in each case, I queried what they had me down as.

yes Barry, it’s all a big conspiracy.

James… The British Navy cater to all denominations… In essence, they have clergy of several different denominations. However, only one is on a ship at any given time. So if you are assigned to a ship that has a Jewish clergy member… Then you are stuck with Jewish clergy member…

Additionally, all the clergy are required to support basic non-denominational prayer for prayer services. This is done to support the whole ship.

@James – thanks for replying. This has nothing to do with how many people are catholic, or how many claim to be when the census comes around. On the contrary, this is about the Irish Constitution and it’s a simple issue.

The word “endow” means “give money to”. The Irish Constitution states clearly that it guarantees not to give money to any religion. Unless the priests concerned keep all aspects of religion out of their work “for” the HSE, then the State is in breach of the Constitution by paying for these priests.

While religious organizations or individuals are absolutely free to fund priests and other religious to visit people in hospital, the State cannot.

Well said rebuttle Robin!

Marlin – Ireland is a majority Catholic country. When the religions you mention (particularly Islam) come into the real world then let’s talk.

Spot on Marlon, we are a multi faith country now even if “,some” Catholics” don’t want to see this.

Nobody should be assumed as catholic and if you must have a religious person in a hospital then its only right that other faiths also be represented.

Eamonn, I don’t believe in any of these faiths but your comment suggests that the catholic church is in the real world?

You’ve looked at the history of the catholic church right? You understand that if you want to compare religions that it is not more real then the Islamic faith or any other god based faith for that matter.

Your also doing the usual thing of assuming Islam means strict Islamic fundamentalist, sure why don’t we assume the exact same thing for the catholic faith?

Eamonn, I do not agree with many things in other’s religion and I don’t agree with many things in my on religion. Let’s stay on point. This is article isn’t about the theoretical nuances of faith… It is about €50K being paid to a Catholic Cleric by HSE, while his counter parts get €26K.

Again, with Ireland becoming a multi-cultural, multi faith country…. Ireland’s government and tax payer supported organizations must either accommodate all faiths or none at all.

Again… An argument for the separation of Church and State.. ..

Take religion out of the Irish Constitution.

Marlin, if the people decide in a referendum then so be it. However, as people have pointed out above, it now appears that chaplains from several faiths visit. You stated earlier that you wanted this. Which is it?

Marlon, apologies for misspelling your name. Auto correct. Only noticed it now. Eamonn.

Eamonn… Great stuff… If clergy from many faiths are permitted to work for the HSE and are getting paid at the same rate as the Catholic Clergy….

But sadly, the €50K could go for better use.

Thanks for the spelling correction.

@Eammon Bolger

Chaplains are being paid too much for the job they do and so are psychotherapists who are on twice as much

Andrew this service is requested by the public, at times of grief people ask for a priest/ relevant to their faith
Thought it was supplied free by the church, but I guess not, I know church of Ireland are called too if necessary or Jewish leader
? Are they payed too, on a call basis

I agree Andrew apparently “gods work” isn’t free !

The. Of try is bankrupt. Should that wage be reduced? Yes. Should all public sector wages be reduced to an affordable level for the country? Yes. If I hear any more about graduate nurses…..FFS suck it up. There are 400,000+ on the dole.

The country is bankrupt. Feckin’ touch screens!

24,000 a nurse starts on

Eamon, instead of reducing pay why not do without the service, or reduced the level of service, that’s the private secret way too,
Enough said

Michelle

That is called chruch state seperation, something we don’t have in this country.

That sounds great.

Well said Eric. It’s all too easy to condemn these men, many of whom struggle with – effectively – a form of bigotry every day. With some closed minds regarding them all as paedophiles.

I would prefer if the money was spent on a doctor or nurse to do ‘hospital’ work. And like schools, do these individuals have unfettered access to patients, and have been vetted?

alien8 I know the act of contrition off by heart should I have a dying patient and no access to a chaplain but I can’t know every prayer or every cultural touch stone for every faith.
these men, and women, do as much as we nurses and doctors. Faith is important to people, and to deny them spiritual support is as bad as denying them medical support

http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/050628_deathfearfrm.htm

So … shouldn’t we regard faith as a health negative and thus mildly disapprove of it, like a frozen burger?

Thank god we have nurses like you Eric.

Would he have done it if he wasn’t being paid ! Not being sarcastic just putting it out there !

Im sure he would have Tony its just your biased view towards the RCC

thank you Kevin, most kind and undeserved.
Tony is that comment directed at something I have done? If so what?

Not at all Eric you are a better placed to make judgement than I . It is a genuine question , some may think it naive or insulting , I swear I don’t mean it to be its just that I generally don’t take things at face value , I assume nothing and suspect everything until I have the relevant facts to make the best informed decision that I can. Sorry if it irritates but that’s my cautious nature. I looked at their website and it states that they campaigned for pay and conditions for themselves. Fair enough. In any event they say they look after spiritual health which I translate as mental health for people with religious beliefs which I agree is very important . It also appears they offer a service for non believers so that’s good in my book.keep up the good work.

Correction Regano(anonymous troll) my views have always been biased against the mostly corrupt hierarchy of the RCC . I support good honest people irrespective of race or creed and I certainly don’t label every Roman Catholic the same . I just see all as being unwitting victims of a mostly corrupt hierarchy who have betrayed their followers by covering up the most heinous crimes of child rape of innocent defenceless catholic children. They could have saved thousands of children from a lifetime of psychological pain , but they didn’t . That hierarchy destroyed the Image of the RCC and good honest Catholics globally. Good decent honest catholic christians deserve A better management team . I’m not as nasty as you would like me to be .

@Tony, he was very genuine, and while I don’t find your comment insulting I do find it disengenious. I like that you are skeptical, as I would be too, but in this instance it is misplaced.

Fair comment Eric I do apologise

accepted. aslso it should noted one does not become a nurse/ member of the clergy for the money……..

Good man Eric ….. Indeed “Maslows Hierarchy of Needs” comes to mind as a useful tool to understand human motivation .

Go and look up “secularism”. It doesn’t mean what you think it means.

Jay, you can’t be a “die hard secularist”.

I don’t remember Catholics calling Atheists fools. Religious people on the other hand are. There was some excuse hundreds of years ago, but there is none today. In light of the enormous scientific advances in recent centuries anyone who still believes in religious nonsense is a fool.

Secularists don’t want to push anything down people’s throat, unlike what the Catholic Church did, they just want a separation of religion from the STATE. The state cannot endorse a religion. It’s doing so by paying priests. As for Muslims, they treat their women shamefully so they can hardly be used as evidence of the good of girls schools.

I did mean the HSE, the church dont get any of my money so they can pay who the like.

Imams – you’re having a laugh – right?

What ever a muslim “priest” is called Eamon. Enlighten me on that. Yep I am taking the piss alright.

I sincerely hope so. Sweet Jesus.

They have comforted many in times of grief, but some others have refused the service offered , it’s optional , don’t worry they won’t covert you on your debt bed

William, the older generation still believe, and yes they do gain comfort from this service, as do their families, the service is provided 24 hours,

Shay, how do you know they get comfort, other than having being brainwashed by priests into believing the mumbo jumbo that the priests spout? Do you think “the older generation” are some class of idiots that need to be patronised? Priests are con artists. For the state to pay them is unconstitutional, immoral, a fraud on the tax payer, unethical and should be stopped immediately.

Well there’s an easy way to settle this.

Drugs don’t get reimbursed unless their cost is lower than the effect on Quality Adjusted Life Years that they produce. The HSE values a QALY at about €20k if I remember correctly. In other words, a drug costing €5k a year would have to add 3 Quality Adjusted Life Months before the taxpayer is expected to pay for it.

If Chaplains are adding 78.5 QALYs in Dublin North East, and can produce sound pharmacomedical evidence for that, then we keep paying for them. If not, the Misery Cult and other denominations can cough up for them.

Deal?

William, I’m a nurse, people are offered or request the service by the nurse on duty,
Iv been with families after the Chaplain has been , and they expressed their thanks for the service provided.
It’s not open to debate if the service is useful, whether the church should supply it for their congregation for free if another issue

Shay, priests of all religion brainwash very young children into believing in their mumbo jumbo, then they obtain money from them for the rest of their lives. It’s a standard con. Convince them there’s a heaven and charge them to get there. Fraud is immoral, whether the mark realises it or not is irrelevant. It’s unconstitutional to pay priests from tax payers money.

William, I can see the argument against paying for the service,
But if you saw the work they do, you would acknowledge it has a role for many who are critically ill and for their families

Priests don’t “work”. They spout mumbo jumbo. Praying to a non existent god can’t help people, unless you have brainwashed the poor unfortunates into believing in all that rubbish in the first place. So no religious indoctrination would mean no need for further mumbo jumbo on your death bed. Priests without any doubt do far more damage then good. Lies and nonsense cannot be good, that’s not the way the universe works.

… than good …. not then good…

William, will agree to disagree, it is work if your called at 3 in the morning to bring comfort to patients and their families at time of distress
Don’t throw out the baby with bath water ,

Funny thing is you people may laugh at this,

But then they see nothing weird or odd by drinking the blood of Jesus and eating him each Sunday, its wafers and wine but remember the mass says they are blood and body.

€56,500 is about 2 nurses pay at the HSE proposed rate of pay for new entrants.

And?

Eamon

2 nurses to save your life or 1 spiritualist to prepare you for death?

I take it you are happy with the latter, while I would guess, like myself the majority would prefer the former!

They don’t just prepare you for death they help console your family too, doctors and nurses just don’t have the time nor resources to do that.

Kevin

If you are in a hospital by defination you are there as you require medical treatment.

So, what medical treatments do chaplains provide? Let me guess NONE.

What medical training do chaplains have? Let me guess NONE.

Can a chaplin actually save the life of a dying person who is in need of medical attention? NO.

Yet for this we pay them over twice what we pay nurses.

As for consoling your family, a professionally trained counciller can do that, how many does the HSE employ & how much do they pay them?

As long as you are happy with a spiritualist holding your hand while you are dying on a hospital trolley in a corridor that’s fine by me. I however would prefer the HSE spent my money on medical items and not “middle-ranking clerical administrators”.

What same situation?

I had problems posting the above having to replace gob####e with charlatan because of the offensive language filter.

“Thank God for Atheism” a most unusual statement.

Marist, hope you washed you hands , now that’s funny

Think about it…..

Marist I see your point and please don’t
Think I’m lecturing . Unfortunately not everyone has the benefit of being able to think critically . Most people of faith have been indoctrinated at a very young age by their parents , church , society. For most there is no choice .The vast majority of Children aren’t generally raised to question or challenge the religion of their parents. Plus It is a scientific fact that the human brain is predisposed and susceptible to Inductive feelings which in turn makes us also susceptible to belief in religion and the supernatural. Theres a whole evolutionary explanation for this which i wont go into. I don’t believe these people are stupid its just that they don’t know any better . It’s not easy to give up a belief in god especially when you’ve spent your entire life believing in one and your surrounded by others who only serve to reinforce and reaffirm that belief. Can we really blame these people who have been indoctrinated by external forces outside of themselves. I think calling these people fools is a folly and knowing human nature it will make them less inclined to be introspective and question their belief system . However I do believe there are unscrupulous types who take advantage of people of faith and hide behind the cloak of religion in order to fulfil their own selfish desires . These are the people I dislike ( being polite) because they are like parasites feeding on humanity.

If you spurt that nonsense anywhere near my last hours, expect to have an orange thrown at you.