…Because once again our government won’t pause and reconsider.
Their ego’s and pride would be hurt – so they bull ahead with this thing for which the public (you and I) will pay later for even more!

So FG and Labour – AND FF who is also pushing it don’t forget – will get the dozing sheep of this country to foolishly sign “Yes” on a day coming.

The TD’s in power will be all right. They will have their massive wages, perks and pensions. they can live comfortably for the rest of their lives not having to stress about how the rest of us will be made to pay more later.
No, they will be fine so stuff the rest of us!
The public must just vote “Yes” if they want to give into the political stupidity and further Austerity measures that frankly are not making a bit of difference – in fact making things worse all around!

United. The government has spent millions getting ready for this referendum. This referendum was demanded by many of you no voters. So you got what you wanted now live with it.

We demanded nothing except a decent government – and also, as we have not voted yet, we as of yet don’t have to live with anything.

There is still time to stop this unknown later detail marriage.
That is unless one is stupid to behave like a meek complacent sheep, swallowing the FF, FG and Labour uneducated crap.

Repeat after me Gary… “Baaa… Baaaaa…”

Well gosh I’m shocked, straight to the name-calling.

Gary, You’re got your referendum now live with it? Are you for fu€king real? Last time I checking we were living in something resembling a democracy. The Gov tried it’s best to avoid holding this referendum, were complicit in a blackmail clause being inserted, and you’re saying we should be content to vote on something in advance of a final draft?
Christ, democratic rights and intelligence must really piss FG off!

…Straight to the name-calling?

1. I have not called you a name. I have espoused that some are behaving LIKE a slow dim witted animal if they choose to be that way and…

2. I am not the one what has even resorted to bad language as in a further post of yours upwards Gary.

Convenient short memory again Gary?

Ah sorry forgive me I thought calling someone sheep was baaad.

Vote No to guarantee investment and jobs in Ireland

Calling someone a sheep is clearly name-calling.

Maybe try to play the ball not the man.

D H?

David Higgins maybe?!? How many bloody aliases have you got? At least Gary keeps it real and posts under one handle allllll the time?!

Learn the difference D H (or whatever your calling yourself this time!).

There is a big difference between calling someone something presently and saying someone might be something in the future of their own choosing.

“I feel I must be missing something here. Why would any country vote on an agreement which, undoubtedly, will be altered at a later date to accomodate Monsieur Hollande, and possibly other EU states ?”

Well, at least partly because there’s no provision in the Constitution or law to delay or cancel a referendum once it’s called. The government can delay ratification after the referendum, but the referendum itself has to happen within 90 days of the Bill for it being passed.

If you think about it, you wouldn’t really want the government to have the power to call off referendums, because they could exercise it if they looked like they were going to lose. On which point, it’s hard to avoid noticing that calls for this one to be postponed have only really been from the No side, and only since it began to look like they weren’t winning…

exconly ?

“economy” typed wrong.

Me so sorrrweeee! LOL

“bust” = “busy” also.

I’m having a bad typo error morning! Doh!

“We MUST vote “NO” to save our country and stop the damage of the changes later.”

Dear god will the exaggeration ever stop.

Exaggeration – aye…

Like Vote “Yes for Europe – Vote yes for jobs” a previous referendum.
Is that what you mean?
You could be right in that case!

So which is it: “We MUST postpone the referendum” or “We MUST vote “NO” to save our country”?

Not very clear

If the government does not postpone – we must vote “No” instead.
Jeasus, an idiot could make that out!
Its not rocket science!

will the whining about yes for f**king jobs ever f**king stop…. it’s painful. I only ever saw the bloody thing on about 20 posters and have heard it about a hundred times from no voters since.
Here’s the list of no side lies http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74672530&postcount=1
Yes voters would be well within their rights to complain a lot of about the amount of lying that went on in the Lisbon treaty referendum but there are so many lies I don’t know where they’d start.

Well you could start with the lies (and u-turns) that in just over a year from FG and Labour, that actually puts FF to shame in not doing similar in so short a time, for example:

Bondholders
•
“Is it Labour’s way or Frankfurt way” – Eamon Gilmore; “Fine Gael in
Government will force certain classes of bondholders to share in the cost of
recapitalising troubled financial institutions” – Manifesto.
•
In government, they refuse to impose losses on the €3.5 billion of unsecured,
unguaranteed senior bondholders at Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide
Building Society (INBS).
They are still refusing to burn them! Amazing!

Third Level Fees
•
“Labour is opposed to third-level fees by either the front or back doors” –
Gilmore.
•
Now Quinn refuses to rule out increased student fees in the future.
Student Services Charge.
NOW FEES HAVE GONE UP!

•
Quinn signed a USI election pledge to reverse the €500 increase in the
Student Services Charge in Budget 2011.
•
Refused to do so once in Government, and won’t rule out increases to it in the
future.

Recapitalisation
•
Varadkar said that not another “red cent” would be put into the banks.
•
The Central Bank announced in March 2011 that the banks would require
€24bn. €19bn of this met by the taxpayer July 2011.
Another 1.25 BILLION going to the banks in bailout in January 2012!

Bank Directors
•
Pledged to “re-structure boards and replace and directors who presided over
failed lending practices.”
•
BOI appointed 4 pre-2008 directors; AIB has 3 non-exec directors still in
place; Irish Life and Permanent still has one.
Force Banks to Cut their Interest Rates

•
The Programme for Government promised that banks in receipt of state
support would be forced to forego a 25 basis point increase on their variable
rate mortgage.
•
Despite cuts by the ECB to interest rates, NIB is pressing ahead with raising
rates, and other banks are refusing to lower theirs.

Sell the EBS
•
During the election Fine Gael pledged to sell EBS.
•
EBS has now been merged with AIB.

Medium Term Loans to Irish Banks
•
Michael Noonan “We need medium-term facilities from the ECB so that the
liquidity problems in the Irish banks are not addressed on a fortnightly basis
with a rollover of the liquidity funding every two weeks.”
•
It now appears this is not going to happen – The ECB rejected it.

The EU-IMF Deal
•
The EU/IMF deal was a “bad deal for Ireland.” ( Eamon Gilmore), “a disaster
and an obscenity” (Micheal Noonan)
•
After election: Eamon Gilmore said: “It was never going to be the case that
the renegotiation of the agreement was something that was going to be done
in one great big bang.”

Income Tax
•
FG 5 point plan: No new taxes including no income tax increases
•
Minister Noonan: “I am not going to rule out any tax initiative, or any tax
increase or any tax reduction.”
Universal Social Charge NOW INCREASED TO €132 A MONTH

•
The PfG states: “We will review the Universal Social Charge”.
•
No review now forthcoming; Noonan robustly defends the levy in the Dail
saying the “universal social charge is progressive.” He added: “It is hard to
argue that is regressive; that is one of the more progressive taxes one will
find.”

Budget 2011
•
FG & Lab voted against Budget 2011.
•
Now it seems they’re only too happy to take ownership of the budget and
boast about the adjustments that have been achieved to date.

More Pay Cuts to Public Servants
•
They opposed the public sector pension levy – “It is a crude and unfair
system.” (Brendan Howlin)
•
Now they won’t rule out more cuts to public service pay.

Jobs Budget
•
FG promised a Jobs Budget within 100 days.
•
The jobs budget then became a mere revenue neutral “jobs initiative”, with no
jobs target.

Getting People Back to Work
•
FG Election Slogan: Let’s Get Ireland Working
•
Latest Live Register figures show unemployment stagnant – the jobs initiative
failed, the New Era jobs didn’t materialise, and the Medium Term Fiscal
Statement acknowledges unemployment will rise next year.

New Era Jobs
•
Enda Kenny boasted that “New Era plan will create over 105,000 jobs.”
•
At its launch in Sept, there was no mention of jobs it would create, and no
mention of cost.

New Era Funding
•
The Programme for Government and the Fine Gael manifesto state that it
would funded through the sale of state assets.
•
However, the EU/IMF agreement clearly states -“It is important to make
effective use of our state assets and, where appropriate, dispose of them to
help reduce our government debt.”

State Assets
•
Programme for Government: “We will target up to €2 billion in sales of nonstrategic
state assets.”
•
It now looks like up to €5bn of assets, strategic or otherwise, will be sold.

Strategic Investment Bank
•
The Programme for Government states “we will establish a Strategic
Investment Bank”.
•
Kenny, September 2011: “A Strategic Investment Bank would be difficult to
implement in current market conditions.”

Upward Only Rent Reviews
•
The Programme for Govt states: “We will legislate to end upward only rent
reviews for existing leases.”
•
Each time the Justice Minister has been asked about it, he’s fudged the issue.
Protecting the Low Paid

•
Labour Manifesto pledged to reform JLCs in a way that protects the most
vulnerable workers.
•
Jobs Minister Richard Bruton is dragging his feet on introducing a reformed
JLC system, leaving workers vulnerable since July.

Competition & Consumer Protection
•
FG Manifesto: Promised a new “powerful consumer champion”, giving it
“additional powers – by constitutional change if necessary – to break up
public and private sector monopolies and cartels.”
•
No mention of this in Competition Bill 2011, and no commitment to
constitutional change.

Ban on Corporate Donations
•
The Programme for Government clearly states “we will introduce the
necessary legal and constitutional provisions to ban corporate donations to
political parties.”
•
The Bill allows corporate donations to continue and Enda Kenny has
confirmed that there will be no constitutional ban put to the people.

Severance Pay for Senior Civil Servants
•
There will be no more “golden handshakes” for public servants that have
failed to deliver.
•
Big payoffs for senior civil servants continue.

Reducing the number of TDs
•
FG had previously promised to reduce the number of TDs by 20
•
The Electoral Act proposes a cut of as little as 6 TDs.

Constitution Day
•
Enda Kenny, April 2011: “We will set out a programme to allow for a series of
constitutional amendments to be decided on what we called “Constitution
day”, to be held within 12 months of the new Government being formed.”
•
Little mention of it since

The Seanad
•
Both parties pledged to abolish the Seanad.
•
There was no mention in the legislative agenda of legislation to scrap the
Seanad.

Child Benefit
•
During the election campaign Eamon Gilmore identified child benefit as a red
line issue. Labour’s “Every Little Hurts” advertising campaign lambasted Fine
Gael for their proposed cuts in the child benefit rates
•
Joan Burton has since refused to give an explicit commitment on child benefit
rates.
NOW BEING CUT.

Social Welfare Rates
•
The Programme for Government clearly states “We will maintain social
welfare rates”
•
Joan Burton has continuously refused to give an explicit commitment on
headline rates.
National Educational Psychological Service

•
Ruairi Quinn promised to provide “€3m to reverse the cut in the National
Educational Psychological Service.”
•
He has made no mention of this commitment since then
Water Charges & Utility Charges

•
Labour previously said they would be opposed to the introduction of flat rate
water charges “A flat water charge is not something that we’re going to
introduce.”
•
The government has now admitted that two charges are on the way by 2013,
a flat rate household utility charge (by 2012) and water charges.

Household Charge
•
“We’re not in favour of a tax on the family home” – Gilmore
•
July 2011: Phil Hogan announced the introduction of a €100 flat rate
household charge which is to be applied to the 1.6 million households in the
country.

Irish Water
•
Fine Gael’s plans for the setting up of a new water company introducing water
charges featured heavily in its New Politics policy document published in
March 2010.
•
However, FG has now admitted that they have no plan for the setting up of
this company, no idea of the timeline involved and have also admitted that
there are significant legal and administrative changes involved in transferring
water services from local authorities to the new water company.

Stag Hunting
•
FG Manifesto p27: “Fine Gael will reverse the ban on stag hunting”; Junior
Minister Shane McEntee (Meath East) told the Seanad on 25th Oct that
legislation reversing the ban was forthcoming.
•
8th Nov – Kenny spokesperson: McEntee was “expressing an opinion” and
there was “no commitment” to reverse the ban.

Turf Cutting
•
Fine Gael Manifesto: “It is premature to cease the cutting of turf for domestic
purposes in 2011”; Roscommon TD Frank Feighan said he would “sign in his
own blood” the future of turf-cutting.
•
27th Sept: Deenihan signs regulations making turf cutting on Special Areas of
Conservation a criminal offence, and allows for the confiscation of turf cutting machinery.

Climate Change
•
Programme for Government: “We will publish a Climate Change Bill.”
•
This was dropped by Phil Hogan in November 2011.

Garda Numbers
•
Shatter said in December 2010 that a reduction in Garda numbers would
“obstruct the battle against crime”
•
“The job of this Government is to reduce public expenditure, not to increase it.
That is as applicable across the justice sector as it is in other sectors.”

Triple Lock
•
FG manifesto: “We believe that the Triple Lock must be modified to allow
Ireland participate in peacekeeping missions. The failure of the UN Security
Council to pass a resolution should not prevent us from taking part in
overseas missions.”
•
Shatter: “As matters stand the triple lock remains part and parcel of Govt.
policy”.

Government Jet
•
FG Manifesto: “We will introduce a new code of practice for the use of the
government jet ensuring cost effective and transparent travel. To stamp out
any abuse, cheaper commercial alternatives must be taken when possible.”
Transport spokesperson Simon Coveney said last year: Jets were “being
abused” by Ministers.
•
Oct 2011: Jet had been used 24 times at a total cost to the taxpayer of almost
€14m, including a trip to Cork for the Taoiseach and a trip to Algeria for
Coveney.

Junior Ministers
•
FG pledged they would cut the number of junior Ministers to 12.
•
Once elected they appointed 15 Junior Ministers.

Quangos
•
Fine Gael pledged to abolish 145 quangos in their document Reinventing
Government.
•
By end Oct 2011, they had abolished 5, but had created 8.
Guillotining of Legislation

•
Enda Kenny, July 2010: “I do not accept the Government’s guillotining of Bills
in any shape or form.”
•
By November 2011 they had guillotined almost a dozen Bills.
Staff in Constituency Offices

•
FG pledged to reduce ministerial staff allocated to work on constituency
matters to two per Minister
•
In March 2011 it was announced that ministers will keep 4 staff each in their
constituency office.

Constituency Work
•
Enda Kenny promised to direct all Ministers to focus entirely on their new
portfolios in the first 100 days and completely avoid constituency work.
•
However, Kenny himself repeatedly broke this promise with dozens of
appointments in Mayo every week.

Ministers’ Advisors
•
Ministerial advisors will be subject to salary caps
•
Most Ministers’ advisors have breached the cap.

Cronyism
•
They promised an end to cronyism and transparency in board appointments.
•
FG & Labour members and donors have been appointed as Judges and to
the boards of Quangos.

Transparency in Appointments
•
FG and Lab Manifestos: They promised vetting of appointments to state
boards by the Oireachtas.
•
Party political appointments have been made, without any oversight or
transparency. In October 2011, they appointed the former head of AIB
Investment Management as head of the New Era quango, without revealing
her pay or conditions.

Freedom of Information
•
Programme for Government promised to legislate to restore the Freedom of
Information Act.
•
No commitment for when legislation will be published on thi

Not to interfere with your copy paste there but harsh reality is harsh reality. The government can say they are sending a man to the moon but when reality bites and it doesn’t happen I for one won’t be surprised.
And you know we demand a heap of promises and simplistic answers or we won’t elect people. Then we object to the fact they don’t carry out the promises they can’t possibly carry out. If we change there is a chance our politicians will change.
It would take me a day to respond individually so I think I’ll give that a miss.

Yes – harsh reality is harsh reality – and for you to go on about lies of anyone else while in denial and/or ignoring FG and Labour lies, is stupidity and hypocritical.

Amazing that one is willing to forget about so many lies when one gives out about supposedly very few less from others!

No I’m not okaying any lie. I’m saying election promises in this country should be seen for the bull they are from the outset. BUT we are the ones who *demand* those election promises so we cannot wash our hand of the results.
The Lisbon treaty was detailed legal document, it wasn’t a bunch of wishy washy election promises. I was able to read the Lisbon treaty and see the No side lies for what they were. A lot of the election promises I just didn’t believe as there was no way they could be done given our circumstances.

You say ” I just didn’t believe as there was no way they could be done given our circumstances.”

…and yet you probably voted for them?

How in gods name does that make sense?
…And still even after that, your further willing to further believe their crap coming out of the same mouths?
What foolishness is this?

I had a selection of politicians to choose from and I chose the best of the lot. That’s the reality.
I don’t understand what people don’t get about these aspirational election promises. They are aspirational, the reality will almost immediately change what can be done. And as I keep saying we demand so many promises that many were never ever going to be carried out. Perhaps I’m a realist.

Vote No for Jobs

Reality is that if one chooses to vote for people who spout things, that say are promises and future goals – then they do the opposite …and one chooses to still vote for these two faced politicians – one invites future disasters and stupidity.

…And what have we gotten?

“Aspirational election promises”? Is that what fine gael are calling “lying through your teeth to get elected” now, are they, gary?

Trueleft. I have no idea if they believed them or not. I am saying though that I personally didn’t think a lot of them would be carried out, given our circumstances.

…In the meantime though, foolishly follow them over the cliff in premature signing up to something that will be changed later, which in consequence we have to say over but left to pay a possible even further hefty price for.
…And we won’t be just paying it, our children will and even their children possibly too – and thats with the fewer home-based political powers that we we will subsequently left to hold on to, to use!

Madness, just madness.

If the government hasn’t the kop to AT LEAST postpone, we must vote “NO”.

UI,
That was brilliant! Those are the reasons why I am an EX Fine Gealer. I will hang on to that for the next election when the ‘canvassers’ knock on my door. I can’t wait for a FG redneck gombeen muppet to ask for my vote.

You will find them all listed on http://www.unitedpeople.ie as well as www.http://bigginsblog.wordpress.com/ where on both, I give other information and comment.

Because merkel can’t harass her parliament the way she can harass our sock-puppet taoiseach.

Germany is delaying because Merkel does not have the support needed to pass the treaty in the parl.

My point exactly. I wish the powers that be would just stop and think about this for a minute, there is no stability in Europe currently, Germany’s waiting to see how the new boy’ll fare out in France, Greece is in turmoil, as is the Dutch parliment, Spain’s more than likely edging towards a bail out, Britian is out, as are the Czech’s, although they may decide to join later…why do we have to rush this? Surely this is not a climate for making life changing decisions….

No offence but what is it with many of you no voters that your also prophets of doom?

I never said I was voting No…at least not in that comment Gary. I just found that to be an informative video which explained the Treaty a bit better than the leaflets we got in the door.

Really… “The Shocking truth of the Pending EU collapse” is going to explain the treaty better. It sounds like a balanced piece.

Amen to that! At least the FF nit jobs were quiet in the buggering of the country!!

Won’t pass anyway mate!

This is all it adds to the constitution…
Article 29.4:
10° The State may ratify the Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union done at Brussels on the 2nd day of March 2012. No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by the obligations of the State under that Treaty or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by bodies competent under that Treaty from having the force of law in the State.

Aindriu Depends on how its phrased If we vote to be governed by the pact and the pact changes we are led by that change. If on the other hand we vote to insert certain wording in to the constitution we are bound by that wording. The firsr option is madness, to bind ourselves to obey a treaty when we don’t know what will be in it is stupidity of the highest order. The second option is laughable: to tie ourselves to a contract that everyone else has bined. What we have here are more examples of the pig headed incompatence of our goverment in their attempt to turn us from Europians into Euro Peons just more reasons to vote No

Gary “This is all it adds to the constitution” So it’s option A then, A pig in a poke. And it overrides all aspects of our constitution.
ESM “You have to cut your education spend” Ireland “But our kids have a constitutinal right to education” ESM “Not anymore they don’t”

Interesting ‘interpretation’ there Francis.

Not realy it clearly states nothing in the Constitution can overide any act made under the fiscal pact, And as the pursestrings control everything it in essence wipesout our Constitution in one fell swoop. Education funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Health funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Welfare funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Garda funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Prison funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Court funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Child welfare “Sorry fiscal matter” Disbursement for oppisition parties “SORRY FISCAL MATTER”

“Not realy it clearly states nothing in the Constitution can overide any act made under the fiscal pact, And as the pursestrings control everything it in essence wipesout our Constitution in one fell swoop.”

These debt rules were mostly introduced as part of the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 (the structural balance rule in 2005 by way of an update)., and Maastricht’s ratification went into the Constitution in *exactly* the same way this one does.

So, this:

“Education funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Health funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Welfare funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Garda funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Prison funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Court funding “Sorry fiscal matter” Child welfare “Sorry fiscal matter” Disbursement for oppisition parties “SORRY FISCAL MATTER””

is something that either isn’t the case, or has been the case for the last 20 years, because exactly the same debt rules have had exactly the same constitutional setting since 1992.

I don’t recall it applying over the last 20 years – do you?

Francis??

Ah yeah sure, when the Treaty is not ratified, they’ll be able to use the ambiguity of the EU situation, at preent, as an excuse to hold another referendum to get the answer that is needed! Gangsters

Sign any blank checks before David?

Why would you want Ireland to sign a treaty that the blanks and ‘finer details’ could be filled in later?!

Jesus your party aliegence is astoundingly stupid! Moronic and, if it wasn’t so serious I would laugh at you but you seriously think its ok to enshrine our constitution with more debt! Yeh that only makes sense to Fine members. And the rest have moved back to Finna Fail!

There was no doubt that you would be the first to comment on this.

2nd bail on way despite what Fr Enda says

Marry in haste, repent at leisure!

David, your party didn’t want us to have a say, and then when it became apparent a referendum had to be held, allowed the blackmail clause to be foisted upon us to coerce a ‘yes’ vote, subverting a fair vote on the matter.

You’re fooling nobody.

David would you sign a legal document if only half of it was printed? That is what Enda is asking the country to do. Delay it and let’s see what exactly we are voting for.

David,
They’re afraid (or most probably hope) the changing situation in Europe will change the treaty. If Merkel goes, or loses a lot oher power things could well be very different, or if Holande does what he says he wants to, or Greece goes kaplooyey.
Do you want Ireland to vote on a treaty that is irrelevant because of changes?

I wondered the same. One minute they are demanding a referendum in no uncertain terms, the next minute they are saying we should wait. Sure Hollande made some promises to win the French election but I can’t fail to notice no voters tend not to believe politicians promises. So that leaves us with the opinion polls showing an increase in the Yes vote.

While I can’t speak for the ‘no side’ I can tell you that I don’t agree with voting on a treaty that in all probability will be amended. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Voting No guarantees our super rich will have to share some pain.

Gary,
I love the way you make the democratic right to a referendum in the first place sound like such an irritation. Keep the posts coming, you’re doing wonders for the No campaign.

The amendments being spoken of are to do with growth, which we can agree to afterwards.
I personally have no issue voting later in the year, though I would have thought a Yes will be even more likely with a growth pact.

Rommel. In a referendum everyone’s opinion is equal but in life everyone’s opinion is not equal. What I’d like though is if people couldn’t make up whatever lie they like and repeated it as fact. That would be nice.

Vote No! says the Fine Gael mayor of Longford, Jim Keogh

Gary: “The amendments being spoken of are to do with growth”

Really? Can you post a link to these amendments for us please?

You wouldn’t be speculating on the content of amendments that don’t exist and advising us that these could be added after the treaty is ratified, are you? Because that would be ridiculous.

Trueleft. I worry about you. You are the one who has repeatedly gone on about Hollande and his demands.