@ AlanHarte, I suspect that the experience is one that has to be personally experienced to be appreciated. The subjective dimension is important. I spoke to a victim and her story appalled me. Senator McAleese only has acess to 128 victims and he was unable due to the Rerms of Reference to address matters such as the physical abuse of many of those who were incarcerated.

We should thank ourselves lucky that we did not have to ensure this severe maltreatment.

“Ensure”. Should be “endure”.

Forgive me if I have gotten this wrong, but was Senator McAleese’s report not tasked with identifying the states involvement as opposed to ascertaining the level of abuse?

Comments were made about abuse, but as the article above states, Senator McAleese spoke to a small sample size of which a large proportion still live in the care of the Orders that incarcerated them.
Obviously not all the nuns were bad, in fact some certainly weren’t (Sinead O Connor even mentions that it was a nun who gave her her first guitar when she spent time there, in her WP article). Some nuns were likely, in a sense, incarcerated themselves – having been sent to the convent by their parents.

But there are many women who left those places and never looked back out of terror, a friends mum is still very badly affected and she won’t even call the redress scheme out of fear that the nuns will get her, she had a total meltdown when the report was on the news. By comparison some are capable of living side by side with the nuns – so it shows that not all cases are the same..

There are many who would have been to scared to talk to Senator McAleese and they would have been the ones who suffered the abuse. For that reason we cannot assume that things weren’t so bad from the contents of this report alone.

The people who spoke to McAleese spoke of what they *witnessed* and the majority said they witnessed little or nothing in the way of abuse, physical or sexual anyway. They weren’t just asked for accounts of what happened to them directly.

Alan I suggest you have a look at the documentary that was in during the week which gives you a better account and I think your comment should be taken down it is an insult to the women who SUFFERED ! What was done to them women had me in tears, beaten for no reason, cut their nails so short they would bleed, cut their hair short and scalp them, take their name away from them, take their children away from them it was totally disturbing. The state has let these people down with that report, they are letting these old women down now drawing out the compensation, ask the women what they want and give it to them. The struggle these women went through to get their voices heard. It was slavery, mental and physical abuses.

If you want to be genuine, go have a quick look at the documentary, it opened my eyes.

Documentary was on TG4.

@ Alan Harte, the Report is an examination of only one aspect of a very long and utterly disgraceful problem of slave labour. I downloaded and read the Report and saw that it could not and did not reveal the true scale of and intensity of the abuse of women. Shanti Om has explained the reasons with admirable clarity.

Tens of thousands victims have had no say. Their knowledge has died with them.

@julie. I’m not defending these nuns for what went on. I’m saying the report, which was welcomed universally with no one of consequence questioning its accuracy, doesn’t seem to back up some of the hysteria that did the rounds. The film Magdalen Laundries was shown to be more or less a work of fiction. I haven’t seen the documentary you refer to but I’m aware of it. In relation to just one point you made in relation to head shaving. Only one witness (out of over one hundred) who spoke to McAleese said they’d seen this- and this was for medical reasons.

Just watch the documentary, I didn’t think you were defending the nuns don’t think anyone would, but these women were abused and treated like dirt that’s a fact. Have a look at it, it very interesting and would make you wonder why the report played it down so much.

Peter, should the State only those people who were in the launderies on account of State intervention. We have no responsibility beyond that. We ought not assume responsibility for the Orders. We have seen where that got us in the other abuse issue.

@ Rory, the State has the ultimate responsibility because it is the ultimately responsible authority. The Government and the people who elect the Government are collectively responsible for what happens in our society. That is a matter of civic duty. This transcends narrow legalistic considerations.

Of course a truly responsible Government, acting in the public interest, would the seek 100 per cent indemnity from the relevant Religious Orders, whose maltreatment of these victims was criminal and abhorrent.

Peter, the main thrust of liability lies most decidedly with the Orders. We cannot ignore that basic fact. Why ought
we pay for another’s wrongdoing. WE have 25% . Others have 75%.

@ Rory, I disagree. The State should first 100 per cent and then seek a full 100 per cent recovery from the religious orders. The religious orders were the primary miscreants but let’s first look after the victims. The religious orders won’t cough up for many years. It will be a very long process. We must be practical and humane. Some of the victims are not long from death.

A society is properly judged by how it treats the vulnerable in that society.

The reality is that the amounts payable to the less than 1,200 victims will be negligible compared to the massive ongoing cost of Ministerial pensions, senior public service pensions and the other perks for the privileged in our society.

This was something that not only the govt and church knew about, but irish society as a whole knew about to some degree and many sent their “fallen” daughters, sisters etc to these places so this relates to a lot more than .1% of the population and we should be ashamed.

This was going on well before unemployment and emigration (well at least this generation of emmigrantion) but there is also plenty of coverage given to those issues, and just because it is a highly important and contetious issue we cant ignore everything else thats going on especially magdelane survivors who have been put to one side for too long.

We cant just pat ourselves on the back and say the magdelane issue is sorted. I for one am keen to see if these women get treated properly and not caught in a bueraucratic mess, and i know im not the only one.

@ Abi, I agree.

Abi I would say society knew but the Catholic Church had massive control, people believed the local priest over there own family, massive figure in the community. Also there was a lot of secrecy as to the extent of the abuse. There letter were checked they were warned not to speak to anyone, a nun would sit in with them if family came to visit. TG4 had a fantastic documentary during the week.