YesCormac!! … The moment we’ve all been awaiting, though not quite as funny as the Bishop Brennan experience, the Queens face tells it all! Liz

as for the last photo:
*Philip, would you be a dear and tell me what the card says, that man just handed us?
Yes love, it says “I know where you live!”*

Well Lizzie, hows yer arse for lovebites?

What did God do? How come he’s not in the picture too?? God gets the credit when good things happen. When bad things happen, it’s the evil of man.. Go figure..

That’s not Michal D. It’s John Terry ;)

I thought it was someone from lord of the rings

@ Dirt Lancaster

Lovely words.

Brave for sure to spend your life knowing that if someone dosen’t do thier job right or if the other side get smarter or luckier you are going to die a violent death.

@Mark Larson

I agree but when is unknown. One question for you, if the 6 counties, Northern Ireland did become independent, do you think/feel that should be independent of UK and the 26 counties?

@ Sheila Byrne

I believe it would be best for N.I and it’s people if they controlled their own laws, taxes and finances, obviously Ireland and the UK will be the biggest traders with the north. But i believe Independence is the way forward for the people of the north.

or a Mason handshake perhaps?

You make a very valid point, Fi Barry.

She’ll down a pint of gin in a heart beat. It’s meant to be quiet impressive to watch her put it away.

That’s much more closer now because of today’s handshake, Brian H. It will happen in time to come & only through consent.

I’m glad it happened. The sky didn’t fall in. Life moves on & let’s get on with life. I’m no fan of SF but I will say fair play to M McG for doing this. And to the Queen. It wasn’t easy for her & him to do it, I imagine. It’s done. Congrats & let’s move on.

Fair points Maureen but go easy on the commas and the random spaces before full stops.

Well I’d 99% agree with you it’s just the small tiny little thing that sinn fein are still connected to the criminal underworld. They would have no problem shaking you hand one minute putting a gun to your head the next if you had the keys to the vault (if you get my meaning)

You mean SF is connected to Fianna Failed/Fail a Gael?

the baldie one

Which one is the Republican? I’ve forgotten.

Especially after they murdered her cousin along with 2 children and an elderly woman on a boat!

She shouldn’t have engaged with him? Come off it! He is Deputy First Minister and parliamentary leader of the Nationalist community. She had no choice but to engage.
Now, either you’re for or against peace and progress- it would appear to me that your lot are anti-peace, it appears that you two (and more besides in the twenty six counties) delight at every opportunity to perpetuate cross-community divides by also referring to the violence and never about the courage it took to end it. I’m going to advise you, using a phrase most oft used by your ilk: Move on and grow up.
Fair play to both, can’t have been easy for either.

ah eoin, comment of the day for me! Thank god someone talking sense on here…

Congrats to both MMcG & QE, never thought I’d see the day.

She is already married. As is Martin, an engagement would cause lots of marital disharmony for both sides.

Great comment Eoin.

I’m curious to understand the real agenda of the people who want to perpetuate the divisions of the past.

Oceans of ink consumed in the lead up!!

50 years behind? There was a huge civil rights struggle up the north. A lot of people down south seem to like glossing over that. How could they have been seen to shake hands with a monarch that represented the oppression of Nationalists up north? I do not agree with the tactics used and the deaths of civilians is inexcusable (on both sides) but to say that this could have happened 50 years ago is really naive. We are moving forward and it’s great to see. A minor event ? This is a great symbol of the success of the peace process.

Its an absolute disgrace that FF in all the decades in Government, never met this nice old lady. SF have done it, FG/Labour have done it (all be it, only last year).
FF need to let their bigotry and hatred of the British monarchy go. When will FF meet the Queen of England in their official capacity as head of the Irish Government? Haa haa …… Rhetorical question to all my FF brothers and sisters.

@Cal1: Sorry to break the news to you but Mary McAleese is a Fianna Fáiler…

Its only minor to some if we take peace for granted. That it seems obvious is precisely the beauty of this moment.

PAW, she gave up her FF mantra on becoming President. Presidents are not allowed to be party political, or do you believe the President is meant to be a Party leader?
I restate my comment, ‘No FF Party leader as head of an Irish Government has met the Queen on Irish soil, why are FF so bigotted and hate filled? When will they drop the hate and meet the Queen as leaders of an irish Government?

@Cal1,

Seriously? You spend most of your time on here humourlessly putting the world to rights (shinner style of course) and now you’re reduced to acting like a school-yard bully which is more true to form from your ilk.

Well said Barry

Paul as I pointed out to you on another thread this morning but which you have completely ignored ” it’s not SF that are causing the hype over photographs, it’s the NIO. They are the ones who told the Journal.ie that it would not be a media event. All that happened last year was the Queen visited Ireland and Kenny and co doffed their caps, curtsied and milked it for all their worth. What you have here is the former alleged Chief of Staff of the PIRA meeting with the current Head of the British Crown Forces. This is much more significant than a few words of Irish spoken in front of fawning politicians and social climbers.
If you have such a bee in your bonnet about will they/ won’t they issue a photograph why don’t you ring the NIO press enquires office in Belfast on (028) 9052 7856 and tell them how upset you are with all the uncertainty surrounding this event. They are the ones who are controlling access to the media so they are the ones who will say whether a photograph is released, no SF.”

The shinners didn’t give a crap either way whether there was a photo or not. It’s the media and the other political parties who made a big thing of it because they weren’t invited to the party. Boo Hoo!

To all!

To see the sarcastic comments, bigotry, hatred and pretense on this article is not surprizing to me. Certain individuals pretending to be overwhelmed at the meeting of the Queen of United Kingdom and McGuinness, when really behind it all, and the voices in their heads saying “we’re not finished yet Queen Elizabeth, so don’t get too friendly”. Whether the Shinners admit to it or not they are and were making a big deal of it. If they weren’t why didn’t McGuinness just say last week, ‘ya, I’ll be shaking her hand, no big deal’? As for Sky news etc. they too were making it a big news item also. Bloody media.

The photos are just lovely to see, to be witnessed by all Northerners and Southern Irish is just lovely. I never thought, in my lifetime that I’d see anything like this photograph, never mind certain kind of peace for the ordinary people in the 6 counties. She is an amazing women for her age and I am sure it was not easy for her this morning to come so close to someone that was involved in the murdering of her close relatives. Yes, yes, yes, I know. Horrible, despicable hatred and murders from all sides.

Just let us all enjoy the moment.

Is there any chance of the Journal Author of the article to spell out why the photograph story ran two days in a row on the Journal. That would settle the argument fairly quickly. Hugh, any chance you could give us the feedback on what drove Journal.ie to run the story twice, even though BBC said the Photographs etc were going to be taken and published on Sunday?

Shiela,

Gerry Adams said it on Matt Coopers radio program on Friday last week. He said at the time he coulndt understand why the media were making such a big deal about it. He repeated it on Sunday, live TV during the week in politics program on BBC 1. Martin McGuinness repeated it on Sunday during a radio interview in the North.
I agree, for anyone in the South, by watching the news here, reading the Indo, or even the Journal.ie in the last 3 days, would have been left with the feeling that McGuinness wasn’tr decided on the photo issue.
I hope that i am quoting Adams exact phrase right…
‘I hope there are photos and cameras there, SF are proud as republicans to be seen greeting the Queen as equals.’

Sheila, it was a big deal from the point of view that MMcG said that by shaking the Queens hand he was shaking the hand of every Unionist. So from that point of view it was symbolic as MMcG in his official capacity represents all of the people of NI and so has a responsibility to meet the Monarch of the UK. It’s another step to show that you have to take a risk and meet people half way if you want to work things out. That is what SF are doing at the moment and have been doing since the start of the peace process. it’s driving the SF haters nuts because they can’t stand the sight of SF acting in a mature and leading role hence you have the usual suspects who throw the same old mud around and refuse to progress with the rest of society.

Personally I don’t particularly like SF and think that some of the stuff that they come out with is crazy but if shaking and old ladies hand will let people have a peaceful like then I’m all for it.

That’s a pretty stupid comment in the light of what just happened. More like, SF *and* the citizens of Northern Ireland are light years ahead of the Republic (and those goes twice over for Fianna Failed, we see through you)

American people call her the Queen, She is known as The Queen i wouldn’t look into it to much.

I think it’s mainly because Irish people don’t understand English grammar very well. Even the Irish Times uses “the queen of England”. There’s quite a few queens around you see.

@mark they generally call her the queen of England etc. we don’t call president Obama ‘the president’ do we?

And his

I hear they also have fairys and dragons over there too

Not to mention the untold millions in tourism revenue they generate annually. Lets ignore hundreds of years of history and strip all royal families and monarchs across the world of their titles etc. Brilliant idea. Get back under your bridge troll.

Could you be any more ignorant of what they do if you tried harder??? Oh I forgot how well our Republic experiment is doing over here…. yes we are really on the moral high ground in our country and not a leech in sight over here…. Idiot

She’s not the Queen of England. She’s the Queen of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, and the many Commonwealth countries around the world.

I wouldn’t quite put it in those terms but I agree with the sentiments. No offence to Elizabeth herself she seems like a nice old lady but Why should an accident of birth entitle you to this level of reverence and wealth. Thank god we are a republic broke and all as we are we would be worse if we were paying out huge money to upkeep an outdated concept like the monarchy. I think the amount of publicity around this is laughable a nice little old lady shakes hands with a political dinosaur. Forget religion as the opium of the masses it’s celebrity, monarchy, infamy, and sensational headlines that keep the masses in check give us something to gossip about or aspire to and we will never challenge the ruling class or social order n

It’s 2012, anybody who tries to defend the concept of monarchy obviously doesn’t believe in equality for all. Hereditary privilege is one of the most unprogressive institutions still functioning in today’s world & is a throwback to times when the rich & powerful took even more advantage of everybody else than they do now.

We can recognise Elizabeth Windsor as the Head of our neighbouring island but we should also register our oposition to her immoral office & all it stands for.

Tom – it would seem that the large majority of the British people are perfectly happy with the Queen as their head of state.

Who are you to tell them what to do?

(and Belgium; Denmark; the Netherlands; Norway; Spain and Sweden)

To those using tourism revenue generated by the freak show that is the British royal family, are you seriously claiming the only reason tourists visit the UK is to see the Queen? The truth is she costs British taxpayers over £40 million per year, she and her family are a relic of the past and have no justifiable reason to be considered ‘special’ in any way….She’s not even British for fecks sake, she is descended from the Sax-Coburgs, her ancestors were almost all German.

The Republic of Ireland is an entity separate from the gombeens who you have elected to administer it, do not confuse the Republic of Ireland with incompetent, dynastic half wits that are in the Dail.

I really don’t see what your problem is… they cost you nothing and have nothing to do with your life so why does it bother you so much? And you really do have no idea at all about what the monarchy in England means or stands for either in historical or modern terms. But please feel free to keep trolling about things you are completely ignorant about.. its always amusing if nothing else… oh and if you do live in the UK and you don’t like paying your 50p a year to keep the monarchy (which is how much it costs per taxpayer) move somewhere else

She’s not British because her ancestors are “almost all German”. What nonsense. Do you not understand what makes a British citizen. So all the Irish who have Spanish ancestry in the west of the country are not really Irish?

As for the equality argument. Do consumer capitalist societies such as Ireland have total equality?

The argument here in the UK is that since the Queen is unelected she doesn’t have to bow to political pressure and can lead for the good of the country.

Completely agree with you Tom. There are plenty of spongers in all countries, but the idea that privilege, opulence and wealth should be down to the the luck of being born into a certain family really is a disturbing system to have in place. It actually pains me to think that for centuries, monarchy’s were rightly seen to be the enemy of the people, but now have been re-legitimised to large degree. Use the tourism, or any other excuse, all you want, its a system that embodies a lot of what is wrong with the world.

@Tom Rooney, RG Cuan, etc.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, get over it. She’s not my Queen. She is the Queen of the United Kingdom. The Queen of millions. Their business, not mine or yours. If they didn’t like the situation, they’d do something about it themselves.

She is for now Damien, but it looks like Australia and Canada will leave the commonwealth soon, Scotland look like they will be departing the UK after 2014, and now Jersey want to leave the UK also. As an Englishman i think it would be best for N.I to leave the UK also.

@ Tom

The Roal family as a whole cost the UK taxpayer £40 million a year, that works out at 65p per person. But the revenue paid to the UK from the royal lands is £200 million. £200 million in revenue subtract £40 million in salary costs equals £160 million pounds in profit. And lets not forget the 12 million tourists that visit London every year spending £8 billion.

@ Mark as you mention, Canada and Australia may leave the Commonwealth – but it hasn’t happened yet. As for Jersey: they’re just posturing because they’re annoyed that their tax haven is being threatened. But Jersey as a separate entity I can’t see, personally.

As an Irish man I’d like to see N.I leave the UK, but I shudder at the thought of what that would do to the already struggling Irish economy. Not to mention the turmoil that could throw up to what looks like a promising lasting peace. Long-term, yes a united Ireland; short-term, no thanks.

For people who live in a Republic, and supposedly agree with its basic principles of equality for all, to actually argue in support of the concept of Monarchy is quite disturbing.

In every nation that still has this outdated privilege there is a very significant percentage of the population that campaigns to abolish the institution (check out http://www.aerm.org/) and create a democratic republic where anybody, no matter to what family they were born, can become Head of State. For the people living in an actual republic to talk about the benefits of somebody ruling over people is an embarrassment to their state’s more progressive system.

Personally i do not think a United Ireland would work with the Unionists, i was thinking more like N.I go it alone just like Scotland may go.

RG Cuan – the fact of the matter is that the large majority of the British people want a monarch as their head of state.

That anyone could suggest that this is not their right and still call themselves a democrat is just silly.

Republicanism is a choice that some nations make and some don’t.

Donal – Where did anybody say that it is not the right of any nation to chose to have a monarch? Nowhere. Your above statement is bogus.

Of course any nation can have whatever political system they want but that does not mean that that system is right, democratic, equal or just.

Er, Australia and Canada are NOT contemplating leaving the Commonwealth, so I don’t know where that idea came from. Nor will they transition into republics in the near future. The two are completely separate issues. Most countries in the Commonwealth actually are republics (India, Pakistan to name two).
As for Scotland, yes some have mooted the idea of leaving the political institution of the UK and have an entirely independent government, but HM the Queen will still be the head of state.
So that’s that issue settled hopefully folks.
As a symbol the Crown (personified by Elizabeth II) is one of unity, devotion to service etc for many. Some choose to use it as a symbol to direct their anger. Is this any different to the attitudes towards the Papal crown in Rome? Just saying.

Glen their is alot people wanting to leave the commonwealth in Oz and Canada and many other commonwealth countries also, it may take many years for them to do so but it will happen. If scotland leave the UK the queen will still be head of state, just like all the commonwealth countries, but parliament in edinburgh will control its finances not london.

Tom, sorry I think your confusion lies in the fact that you may believe that the Commonwealth is a set of nations with the Queen as their head of state. This is not true. It is a loose affiliation of countries who were once part of the old Empire. Most are now republics and/or completely independent. I am from Australia and I can tell you that leaving the Commonwealth has never been discussed in the public or political arena. The discussion about whether to become a republic often surfaces though and is vigorously debated. The two issues are completely separate.
As for Scotland, yes you are correct.

I disagree with you Glen, plenty of debates in Australia and Canada about should they leave the commonwealth.

http://debatepedia.idebate.org/en/index.php/Debate:_Australian_republic_vs._monarchy

Sorry, Mark not Tom!

Indeed in a recent poll of an admittedly small number of Australians only 25% said they’d be sorry if their country left the Commonwealth http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-world/aussies-happy-to-leave-commonwealth-20090720-dq0y.html.

I also remember that there was a referendum on whether to keep the Queen as head of State? I guess it passed.

I disagree with you Mark, there are not plenty of debates in Australia or NZ about leaving the Commonwealth.
Your link is primarily about the debate whether Australia should remain a constitutional monarchy or become a republic – as I have stated before this is often brought up. The article makes references to the Commonwealth, but is a side issue and not the main issue of debate. Your quoted article is titled “Debate: Australian republic vs. monarchy”
Australia could choose to a.) remain a Federal parliamentary constitutional monarchy or b.) by referendum, become a republic. The decision to remain in, or leave the Commonwealth is a separate issue and independent of the choices Australia can make as to their head of state.
Quoting me an article from ‘Debatepedia’ does not change the fact.

Ok then we both agree to disagree.

Off topic I know, but is the person whose comment is the second after Tom Rooneys, in witness protection and their identity must be kept secret? Why have they no name?

@Damien Kelly, What the hell are you on about ‘Irish people with Spanish ancestry in the west of Ireland’ Do you often believe in fiction? It all really depends on whether you ascribe to the Jus Soli or Jus sanguinis definition of Nationality, I ascribe to the latter as does the Queen I would imagine since her whole justification for claiming to be royalty depends on her blood line. She is German by blood and British by just as much an accident as the circumstances that give her a life of privilege on the backs of British taxpayers.

@Jay Warner, you come across as a boot licking west Brit…or a British royalist trying to push an agenda, either way, get up off your knees, devotion to a human being who’s ancestors have caused more misery in the history of Europe than Hitler and Stalin put together is quite frankly pathetic. Your ignorance and sheep like mentality are clear for all to see.

Tom, Damien made a fair point. So you ascribe to “Jus sanguinis” (that nationality is derived from the nationality of the parents). First QEII was born in England. Her parents were born in England. Her grandparents were born in England. You have to as far back as Queen Victoria’s consort Prince Albert to find the German connection I think you’re referring to, although Queen Victoria’s father was, surprise, English. She could be said to also have Scots and Danish ‘blood’ through various connections.
How far back does your “Jus sanguinis” argument go? One generation? Two? The implication I’m getting from you is that no one is truly Irish (even if they’re Irish born) unless their ancestry can be traced back to year dot.
Using your own argument, Denmark should be blamed for Ireland’s woes. It was the Normans who were invited to Ireland by Diarmait Mac Murchada. The Normans later ‘became English’ but came from France, and before that were settled Vikings from Denmark.

And I don’t see how Jay’s comment makes him subservient to the British Crown. He correctly pointed out that the Crown works in the UK. It didn’t work here. Se be it.
How exactly has the British Royal family’s ancestors caused more misery in the history of Europe than Hitler and Stalin put together? That’s a bold and frankly uninformed statement. I could suggest that the Papal Crown has been responsible for more dastardly things in Europe’s past and misgivings in Ireland (without criticising the right of a person to follow their faith).
The point is two different ideologies have met with the promise of peace. Not to argue about family trees or systems of government.

at least ye get a laugh at them sometimes

Doesn’t she look like a small green leprechaun? :)

All in German hands now Tom

Oh Tom Rooney you are such a throw back!!!

Poor old Tom. Much anger I sense in him.
Being Irish isn’t judged on how much you hate the British. That’s ridiculous, but an attitude that seems to run through your threads. “British colonial oppressors” wow.

The people of the island of Ireland and those across the water share more similarities than differences. Ireland’s historical woes are due in some part its neighbour but also to and in context with what was going on in the whole of Europe.
Your arguments seem to morph into the banking/sovereign debt crisis, which is a different topic and one that most Journal readers justifiably feel angry about. But hey, that was a home grown problem!

Dear old Tom. Less of the personal insults please. I probably know more about history (Irish and European) than you care to give me (or anyone who disagrees with your very myopic point of view) credit for. I could suggest some good books or even websites you could start with.

For someone who doesn’t let emotions fog their judgement, you seem to have a very aggressive and confrontational point of view.

Ireland is an island. Whether you like it or not, there are two political parts on it. The ‘minority’ in ‘the North’ are actually the majority ‘up there’ and they are not ‘dictating against the will of the Nationalist majority of the Republic.’ Please.

Ireland was not invaded by Britain, because Britain didn’t exist as a political entity back then. Nor did Ireland for that matter. But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of your foundation myths.
Yes, Ireland has its own distinct proud culture. Britain has its own many different cultures too. But I stand by my original comments.

As for the banking crisis – yes, through the actions/inactions of the Irish banking system and politics (together with Europe) it is in part home grown. That is not to be confused with blaming the people of Ireland who have had a gutfull. No the Irish tax payers are not responsible and I believe Ireland should not be paying German or French banks for unsecured losses. We are all agreed that the politicians haven’t got a clue.

I would continue to point out factual errors in your rant, but I fear it would be lost on you. You have your mind made up and no amount of argument will convince you otherwise. If nothing else your posts make for amusing reading.

If you hate Britain and everyone else so much here’s a suggestion. Get in a time machine and go back 800 years and repel the Norman invaders, or back to the early 20th century and give Dev a hand. Failing that, stop speaking English, don’t watch the BBC, don’t follow any UK football teams, boycott UK goods and services and go live on a croft on a small island somewhere.

You Tom, are the Gombeen. Good day to you sir!

Glen, I’m afraid you have once again displayed your failure to put together a coherent argument, your whole presupposition is based on assumptions and fairy tales created by yourself and those like you, who quite clearly have an agenda to push.

Dont let facts get in the way whatever you do. After I read your claim that Britain never invaded Ireland I gave up any hope that you might put across a reasonable argument, the twaddle you have poured out on this thread is there for all to read and your claims are based on ignorance and revisionism.

As for you accusation that I hate “The British” that is just a simplistic attempt to attack my credibility and one that shows you up for the fool you really are. Not once have I said anything hateful about the British people, the ordinary British person has been screwed by the British elites just as much as the Irish have and I have nothing but empathy for those who seek to implement change in their homeland.

You Glen, have zero credibility and zero knowledge on the subject, so do yourself a favour and jog on before you embarrass yourself any further.

Tom, I could give an elegant response but I’ll keep it simple and type slowly. You are an idiot. You have an ‘agenda’ as displayed in your puerile rants. You fail to accept anyone else’s point of view as valid without taking it as a personal slight and further misunderstand completely points being raised (eg invasion from Britain, read the post again) Your myopic and childish knowledge of your own history is embarrassing and the attitudes you express border on being offensive. Maybe you should read a book? Thankfully people with attitudes like you are in the minority, but please continue to give us all a laugh! Now, if you don’t mind, I’m currently at Heathrow waiting for my flight home to Dublin…peasants to oppress and all that, you know.

Did anyone ask if she wanted to shake hands, she had no choice, the duke did so also and his close relative Mountbatten and a young Irish lad killed by IRA. This is wonderful stuff to bring two countries with so much in common together

Kneel before Zod!

Unfortunately the British Govt. at the time were not willing to face down 150,000 unionists and loyalists who blockaded and shut down the North, with roadblocks, shootings and their general strike.

If 150’000 Nationalists had done that, the British army would have gone in on the first day and shot hundreds without a moments hesitation.

So the new narrative is that the nationalists caused all the trouble? I suspect that Maggie Thatcher is more likely to shake McGs hand than you or the others who want to keep us stuck in the past – perhaps because the established parties in the Republic are worried about SF upsetting their cosy arrangements.

Tom, I have reported your last comment to the Journal. You are offensive and ignorant. nYes, I am Australian born, Scottish family, protestant and support the monarchy and my partner is Irish. I have lived in Ireland for near a decade and love the place and the people. And I do have authority to speak about history, of which I know an awful lot. You are the troll Tom. The post is about McGuinness and the Queen. Jog on Tom. Bye

Tom, give it a rest. If you don’t like people disagreeing with you, fine, but you’re the one name calling, being childish etc etc. Take a breath, then start reading the posts in their entirety.

Sorry Tom,
The rest of the people here were having a civil discussion until you started abusing and insulting people. I have no agenda unlike you and I have not insulted anyone (apart from you).
I love both the UK and Ireland and understand and respect both their separate and at times conflicting histories. My partner and I own a house in Dublin, which is our home, so I’m quite happy here with my Irish friends and family thank you.

Tom, everyone here understands that you don’t like a system of government that has a hereditary head, instead of one elected by common vote. No one is saying that Ireland should suddenly pass an act of Union again, or that republicanism is somehow wrong. No one worships the Queen, like no one worships Mr Higgins or President Obama. There is no justification for personally attacking people who have a different point of view than yours.

I’m sorry you have so much anger in you Tom, but it’s not right to take your frustrations out on me or other readers.

Irrespective of the differences which exist in our communities, we can only move forward through mutual respect and constructive dialogue.

“First cast out the beam of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote of thy brother’s eye”.

Slan agus beannacht