Did you have any problem getting them in? I’ve signed my first son up but won’t hear if he’s in until the start of the year he is signed up for. As soon as my new baby is born and named I will be signing him up too. I signed them up for the mornington one,is there another closer to drogheda?

how do you account for the fact that in other countries parents go to great lenghts to get their children into faith schools in Britain parents are prepared to move house to get their children into catholic and c of e schools.

@Brendan It’s pretty simple really. Religious schools in the UK retain control of admissions to their schools and generally have more affluent and middle class student than other schools in their catchment area

@Brendan, The reason for that is because faith based schools are generally held to be higher achieving than non-faith based schools in a similar economic areas.

The reasons for this performance advantage are twofold, first as you point out parents are willing to go to great lengths to get their kids into these schools. This is a self reinforcing situation, the schools preform well because they preformed well in the past, and they will preform well in the future because the cater to parents who are willing to go to greater lengths and put greater pressure and importance on their children to preform.

The second reason, and the root of the situation, is because they get to select their students in such a way as to give the illusion that the school is preforming better as apposed to the students they selected being of a higher academic standard upon entering the school. For example if a school required potential students to complete an entrance exam and only admitted the 10% best preforming and the rest went to a public school which was required to cater to everybody, unless the selecting school did a really bad job with the children education, one would expect the students to be at a higher standards when compared to the group they were selected out of. But this doesn’t mean that the school is better, it only means the students were. Realistically however, you would expect the selection school to preform better simply because of competition among higher preforming students spurring them on.

Of course this creates a situation were children of parents with religion have access to a greater selection of “better” schools and which are usually better funded. Which, to be frank, is something that seems inherently unfair to me.

Dylan or perhaps it’s the other way around. Perhaps the middle class send their kids to those schools because they are good schools?

Either way, the religious part obviously does not affect the academic side…

The highest standards of education are achieved in Europe by secular schools in Scandinavia. I really love the way religious people use the standards of the US and British secondary education to distort the facts.
It is true that some private schools with a religious ethos are better than the state run schools in the UK or USA, however the standard of education in the Dutch or Scandinavian secular school is far superior to anything they (the religious)have to offer.

Sorry why is it brainwashing!!!!

Kim filling a child’s head with iron age myths of Supernatural beings and selling these stories as fact is brainwashing,in fact I can see no better example of brainwashing in our society.

In your opinion, Joe. Millions of people worldwide follow one religion or another. Atheists are in the minority-very much in the minority in Ireland. Most tax payers believe in God and as they are tax payers, their choices are valid. Choice is the key and, whether you like it or not, that’s what we’re going to have. Amazing how so many people are praising Educate Together because they teach respect for all religions and in the same post castigate the Catholic religion. I don’t know if I’d like to send my kids to a school if other parents viewed them as some sort of brainwashed, mindless zombies. And, these views would rub off on their children who could repeat them back. Mmmmmm? I wonder if that would be termed indoctrination?

Maria fact is, that if people were not indoctrinated in religious schools for generations in this country there would be a lot more non religious people don’t you think? Another fact is that a lot more people leave religion than joint it.
Another fact is that a lie or untruth can never be the truth no matter how many people believe it.
BTW I never said that religious people were brainless zombies, I don’t believe in zombies I leave that up to the Christians who celebrate the resurrection of Jesus.

I don’t know, I think there are a lot of people who aren’t that religious even though we have Catholic schools so the indoctrination mustn’t have been that good. My view is that religion is mostly passed on in the home, not by ramming rules down people’s throats, but by good example, discussion and exploring the reasons behind what we believe. This is supported by the community, the church and the parents’s choice of school. If other parents think it’s all a load of fairy tales, so be it. They should have the choice of a different model. I somehow think that no model would encourage children to make comments like your last one. The core values of any education system should start with respect and tolerance. Even if we only encourage those two values, we’ll have achieved a lot.

Thank you for the reply Maria.

Cyril, the evidence shows that some parents want denominational education and some want other models. Having both suits the two groups. If some people want to believe that we’re floating aimlessly in space, that’s up to them, but they can’t expect their views to be accepted by the majority who are quite happy that religion and science can exist side by side.

No Barry. Parents have a right to choose the type of schools they send their children to.
This is why the news above is good. A choice (depending on demand) of school types should be the goal.

SaintRuth, yes choice, however given the vast majority of schools in this country are still in catholic hands a very large percentage of parents are denied this very choice.

More still end up pushing their kids into catholic run schools (as they have no choice) and doing the whole communion thing with their kids, not because they believe in any of it but because they don’t want their kid being left out.

Given how much are culture has changed and given that the state funds these schools the fairest way to accommodate all faiths is to not have faiths in schools. Communions and all that should be separate.

Leave it upto the parents to teach religion and if they want they can use mosk’s, church’s etc they can,

Religion is a very personal thing and should not be pushed on others just because you think there isn’t enough demand for a non-catholic run school like you are suggesting,

Barry, studies have shown that parents want choice in education so a lot of parents don’t want religion out of the schools or boxed into an hour a week. Other parents want a model like Educate Together. As taxpayers, the views of both groups has to be taken into account.

No one (not even the Catholic Church) disputes that there are too many Catholic schools, but you’re saying that choice is a good thing but that there should be no choice?

No, the fairest way to accommodate all faiths and none is to allow them to have their own schools, if there’s a demand for them.

I didn’t say there was no demand for non-Catholic Schools. I said the above is a good thing. If there is a demand (and there is) for Educate Together Secondary Schools there should be Educate Togehter Secondary Schools, and if there’s a demand for Church Of Ireland schools then there should be Church of Ireland schools.

Secondly what you’re suggesting is unconstitutional as it would be discriminating against Catholic Schools in favour of Educate Togther ones: “Legislation providing State aid for schools shall not discriminate between schools under the management of different religious denominations, nor be such as to affect prejudicially the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending religious instruction at that school.”

Barry I agree, Parents have the right to allow their children to go a school with one religion or no religion which ever they feel is better for their child.

I think indoctrinating kids with this dogmatic nonsense is sinister. Learning about Jesus performing magic spells alongside maths and science? Bizarre behavior in a modern Western society.

Religion in schools is bad for society. It has no place in taxpayer funded public schools. If parents want it, they should bring their kids to Sunday school or send their kids to private schools. That’s their choice.

@SaintRuth

“No, the fairest way to accommodate all faiths and none is to allow them to have their own schools, if there’s a demand for them.”

By this reasoning the country would be littered with tiny schools specialising in the Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, Protestant faiths etc… Surely having these students kept insulated from people of other faiths during there formative years is very dangerous socially, it could lead to radical segregation. Why not have non-denominational as the default school type instead of catholic and then fewer people would feel compelled to sent their children to faith specific schools.

As a child growing up in a smallish town, I went through a catholic run primary school and I remember with some alacrity the general feeling of distrust that fostered towards the kids in the protestant school. There was no reason ever taught to us that we should distrust them or action taken to give rise to it, but everyone understood that we were purposefully separated from them and it isn’t hard to imagine that kids might imagine reason why to be that these “other” kids where somehow dangerous to us. People maintain an inherit tribal attitude that is readily apparent, and this plays off that attitude. There is religious segregation in our schools and this is a breading ground for sectarianism, when instead it could be means of integrating ourselves into a more cohesive society. And as they concluded in America when they were dealing with the issue of racial segregation instead of religious segregation, “separate educational facilities are inherently unequal”.

I always draw a line between respecting the right of other people to make a choice and respecting the choice itself. The first is automatically given but the second should be earned with reasoned arguments to support it, there is a social cost to having faith based schools and it is reasonable to ask if this cost is justified. All that being said, I actually do respect the parents right to choose, even when I don’t like the choice they make. Seeing as you seemed to suggest that Barry held the same attitude on this point as I do and that they are in conflict, let me draw a parallel. I respect the right that people make to choose to smoke, I just really rather they wouldn’t.

No, “SaintRuth”. It’s *children* who should have more rights – the right not to be treated like puppies having religion shoved into their minds.

Kitty, it’s the parents who should decide what’s best for their children (within reason).

If they want to send their kids to a school that they believe will instill certain values (like Christian morality), they also have that right.
You don’t have the right to overrule them and force parents to send their kids to schools with the values you like.

@saintruth, it’s not choice if only one section of society is able to pick its choice. Let the state fund religious education, and let the churches and parents fund the indoctrination of their choice. To me that’s fair and a more honest approach to religion. I think the churches could even be stronger for it, as parents, who are the primary educators would have to play more of a role in their local church. If somebody really believes in their religion, why should they feel the need to rely on the state to instill such beliefs in ther children. At some stage the umbilical cord has to be cut. Educate Together respects all religions, and often let’s parents use the school space for religious indoctrination. You can’t say fairer than that.

Donncha, parents do fund the “indoctrination of their choice” when they pay their tax which pays for schools.

And yep, totally agree: “it’s not choice if only one section of society is able to pick its choice”, which is bad today if all the schools are Catholic and it’d be bad tomorrow if all the schools were Educate Together.

The state insists you give your kids to a school for a certain number of hours a week. Parents should have a choice as to school ethos, and the type of morality they’re being taught.

@saintruth, it’s not choice when the state doesn’t provide for all and no religious indoctrination and you end up paying for others, and having to place your children in a school that operates from a religious ethos that you don’t believe in. That’s not choice, that’s a monopoly.

What if I feel I want to shop in a supermarket with Christian ethos? Maybe we could have Christian supermarkets. Obviously everyone is free to use them, but if I’m buying my groceries there, I want them to share my beliefs. In the interest of fairness, we will of course have to have supermarkets specifically for every belief system. Seperate supermarkets for Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Druid, Pagan, Jedi, Quaker, Mormon, Hindu, Sikh etc etc etc. It’s clearly the best solution.

Or, you know, we could have non-religious supermarkets. Save us the hassle.

I’m sure that’s what you believe Cyril. I just don’t think you’re right. In my religion, there isn’t anything that is in conflict with science. The picture you paint just doesn’t ring true for me. I don’t think that if something isn’t nice, it’ll just go away if I don’t believe it, and reality isn’t really “a cold hearted S.O.B”. Religion isn’t about magic genies and happy ever afters. It’s not going to remove all suffering and pain, but, for me it’s about beauty and hope and the enduring power of love. It transcends the physical to recognise another aspect of life-a spiritual aspect. It’s not the false hope that attracts people to faith and religion, It’s the search for truth.

Said Tom Cruise about scientology.

That’s another story, Cyril! ; )

@Ryan – The reason that method was not used is that the policy is to provide a choice of school patrons. If large segments of the population of an area already have a school of their choice (as was the case with the VEC in Gorey who already run the community school there) then simply having a popularity contest doesn’t work as the minority will never get their choice. Such a system at primary level would have resulted in there being only English language Roman Catholic schools in the country and no Gaelscoileanna, Educate Together or Church of Ireland schools.

Absolutely Diarmaid!
On the subject of Gorey, Educate Together & public ballotts regarding the popularity of alternative schooling in rural areas I would like to share a little tale.

When the Educate Together Primary School was established in Gorey some years back a Saturday ‘farmers market’ was started to gather some funds. Temporary signs were placed the previous Friday evening on the adjoining National Primary Road announcing the event and giving directions to the school grounds. Each Saturday morning when the organizers arrived they found the the signs had been removed overnight (!) by the Co. Council and taken to the Council yard in Enniscorthy because of complaints! In addition to this many children were disparagingly referred to as the kids from ”the hippy school” Giving these experiences I am convinced that if the establishment of an Educate Together School was left to a popularity contest the alternatives for primary education in the area would have remained between the RCC and the CoI.

I’d take religion over privatisation any day…

And I’m pretty much an atheist…

Privatise it and education will go out the window. Our kids brains will be useless. I want my children to have a decent education. I’ve signed up for educate together,I just hope,so much,that they get in!!