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Dublin: 17 °C Tuesday 21 May, 2013

Irish pupils taught over twice as much religion as OECD average

A major new survey of developed nations shows the average Irish 7-year-old spends 10 per cent of their school time on religion.

Jessica Boyle gets a little upset as she has to leave her mother on her first day at Gardiner Street school in Dublin 1 earlier this month.
Jessica Boyle gets a little upset as she has to leave her mother on her first day at Gardiner Street school in Dublin 1 earlier this month.
Image: Laura Hutton/Photocall Ireland

THE AVERAGE IRISH primary school pupil spends a tenth of their time in religious tuition – over twice the average of other developed countries, a new worldwide study has claimed.

The OECD’s ‘Education at a Glance’ report says the average 7 or 8 year old in Ireland spends 10 per cent of their time in primary tuition being taught religion, while the average among the countries surveyed is 4 per cent, and the average among EU countries is 5 per cent.

The report says Irish pupils – assuming they are taught the correct number of hours demanded by the Irish primary curriculum – spend only 12 per cent of their time learning maths.

The average among developed countries is 18 per cent – with the difference in maths tuition accounted exactly for the amount of time spent on religion.

The major report, surveying conditions in 30 of the world’s developed countries, shows that Irish students also spend less time studying technology and practical subjects than their worldwide peers – and less than half of what the average student in another country might spend on Physical Education.

This is reflected in the extra time spent on ‘modern foreign languages’ – which in Ireland’s case includes the teaching of the Irish language.

Top college achievers

Elsewhere, the report shows Ireland has the fifth-highest rate of college education among those aged 25-34, while the numbers aged between 55 and 64 with third-level qualifications is about equal to the average among the G20 countries.

However, the gap of educational attainment between those aged 25-34 and those thirty years old than them is among the largest in the world in terms of both second and third-level qualifications.

In particular, Irish women in the youngest age bracket are better educated that those even ten years older than them: the gap in the number of women aged 25-34 who hold third-level qualifications, and those aged 35-44 with similar degrees, was the seventh-highest of the countries surveyed.

Ireland also ranks among the countries with the highest completion rates of secondary education, and is one of only three countries (the others being China and South Korea) with little or no gender gap among second-level graduates.

The report draws particular attention to the higher-than-average educational performance of immigrants to Ireland – over half of whom are in the top quarter of educational achievers. Immigrants make up almost 20 per cent of the top quarter of Ireland’s students, it said.

Ireland is also unusual in that there is very little difference in voting rates between those with and without a third-level qualification, at either end of the age scale. Only Greece, where lesser-educated voters were actually more likely to vote, had a smaller gap.

Overall, Ireland’s education spending in 2009 was 6.3 per cent of its GDP in 2008, just above the OECD average, while the average teachers’ wage was higher than the OECD average in that year – though this has been reduced since then as a result of government spending cutbacks.

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Comments (81 Comments)

  • Barry 12/09/12 #

    So 12% teaching maths and 10% religion…you have got to be kidding me!
    What an insane backwards system we have,

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  • So can we then say that a tenth of the state primary school non capital budget is spent indoctrinating innocent children for a foreign third party that has been proven not to respect our laws.

    How many hundreds of millions is that?

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  • While the religious aspect of that survey is worrying in so far as it shows that we still do not have a division between church and state in the delivery of a basic service i.e. education, the lack of focus on mathematics, science, practical skills and sport is even more worrying!

    If the school system is not encouraging an interest in mathematics, science and practical subjects we are simply not going to be able to compete in terms of R&D and the knowledge economy. Those kinds of skills are absolutely essential to all sorts of areas such as engineering, product development, science, computer science, creative media, games development and practically every aspect of the modern economy!

    The lack of sports and physical education is really detrimental to the health of the nation as if you are never introduced to sports and physical activity as a kid, you will probably not continue it as an adult. How much does that cost us in terms of heart attacks and lifestyle related illnesses?

    I also have a real concern about how the education system is so divided by school patronage. We have endless versions of primary schools all divided by religious community, religious denomination, gender, language, social class and they are all state funded! Not only that, but each school also has all the management overheads and building costs associated with being a separate entity.

    Would it not be better to have a really well resourced school in an area with excellent classroom facilities, a wide range of subjects, a library, really good sports facilities, a PE teacher, science facilities, IT facilities and psychological supports etc etc… rather than the current situation where we have umpteen different versions of schools all run on a shoe string and falling apart because the resources are being spread so thinly ?

    The Irish education system really needs to be looked at from the ground up. It is there to provide children with a really good education and it has to do that in a way that provides the taxpayer with maximum return for investment.
    I cannot see how the current system does that.

    I don’t see any evidence that the Irish “system” ever really had any massive reforms. It went from a charitable school system with little/no state funding in the 19th century to a situation where the state began to fund schools and pay teachers’ salaries. However, there appears to have been little / no reform of how education was delivered with the delivery being left in the hands of the same 19th century charity organisations (i.e. mostly religious institutions).

    Other European countries and the United States built public school systems from the ground up. Perhaps it’s long overdue that Ireland considered following that model and providing kids with the education they deserve, teachers with a really drastically improved working environment and the support that they deserve and the tax payer with the kind of service that they should expect for the investment that they put in!

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    • Great comment David,

      The Irish education system evolved as a means whereby the Catholic Church extracted as much wealth out of the state as possible via jobs for the boys & girls….ie brothers priests and nuns who all took salaries that went to central church funds while the individuals themselves received pocket money.

      Ditto for the health system and chaplain “services” in army, gardai, VECs etc.

      Did you know that the chaplain budget for the army in 2010 was €4 million and this years chaplain budget for the VECs allone is €9 million euro.

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    • €1 billion per year on an EFFING mickey mouse language like Irish! This is a joke. Get rid of it now. We can’t afford this kind of luxury anymore. Getting rid of Irish would almost do away with the need for a property tax! What good is Being able to speak Irish when country’s bankrupt. Anyone wanting to learn Irish should go off and pay someone for the lessons.

      Reply
    • Well said David ..

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    • Rodrigo – it aint that simple – you wont save 1billion or anywhere near it. Teachers still need to be paid regardless. Try teaching those teachers a foreign language and you’ll hit another obstacle. Anyway, learning any language (including Irish), is as much benefit as mathematics, english or science. So regardless of how you feel about irish, it aint all bad.
      Personally Rodrigo id say, is teanga fíor mhaith, fíor saibhir agus usaidatar an gaeilge go forleathan. Is teanga duchais na tire seo agus ni geobhaidh se bas go deo.

      Reply
  • Separation of church and state

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  • Daft. That ought to be left to parents to decide. 10% ???

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  • I think all schools should switch this time and effort into physical activity instead , we can clearly see that we have a looming obesity problem already , the extra pressures and costs on the health service not to mention the health of the kids themselves would be a far better use of the time instead of filling them up with nonsense that they’ll only go on in later life and call into question anyway.

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  • Smart economy, wha?

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  • just unbelievable.. religion should be something you decide yourself growing up. it is nothing short of brainwashing telling kids theres another daddy watching over you in the sky. if you are going to teach religion then teach all of the religions and customs so thats its a subject, not an inherited lifestyle. it shouldnt go anywhere near students in primary school.

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  • If it is anything like religion studies when I was in school they are not learning much about the actual religion. Just a lot of mindless prayers and hand picked segments of the bible!

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  • Perhaps it’s time to have a system like Sunday School in Britain, where children are taught about religion after Sunday service. Oh wait…that would cost the church money. Although, they’d probably expect the government to subsidise it.

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    • They have religious schools in the UK you know. And funnily enough those are the schools that the parents want to send their kids to.

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    • The religious schools are popular in the UK because their students perform better than average. The reason for this is because they are allowed to pick and choose among the students they admit, as well as expelling any trouble makers into the public education system. Public schools don’t really have that option (in the UK if you are expelled from two state schools then you can be excluded from the state educational system, hence there is a very high bar for expulsion).

      There is very little reason to think that religion contributes much to these schools, and the more probable explanation is the higher academic standard among the students is overcompensating for the extra time they spend on religion.

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  • The thing is, a lot of the people who will be outraged by this , probably all have their children baptised, and the children will in time have their communion and confirmation made! All this will be done while parents will tell anyone who will listen about how much they dislike the church and all it’s hypocrisies etc!! No in not religious or a believeir!!

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  • Unbelievable. I don’t remember being taught about evolution at school but I do remember the mumbo jumbo religion classes. Do they teach evolution in schools these days? I sincerely hope so. Less religion and more science classes would help get this country on its feet and maybe even excel.

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  • Jesus Mary and holy st Joseph….

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  • Down with this sort of thing.

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  • My daughter just started junior infants. I had NO choice but to send her to catholic school. It is so unfair, while I can live with a bit of religion in school, (i.eI’m not going to make a big deal and ask her to be removed from religion lesson, don’t want her left out.), I am shocked to hear it could be taking up 10% of time. So annoying, then what happens when she reaches 2nd class and they doing sacraments and communion preparation IN CLASS. She will definitely feel left out. Just because I’ve no religion does not mean I have no morals or ethics. What’s immoral is so many kids getting dressed up and getting loads of money for it.. And they’ve probably never been in a church for mass with their parents… Take religion out of school!!!

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    • I completely agree. I’d say by the time that she’s in 2nd class though she won’t be on her own in not getting communion. It’s going to get more common.

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    • I’m sure you do have morals, but they’re probably Christian morals.

      IF you take God out of the equation, then where do morals come from?
      What are morals? Is it just a matter of opinion? (i.e. moral relativism).
      Does Right and Wrong vary according to your culture?
      If everyone decided infanticide was okay, would it then be morally okay?
      If you believe something (say, child abuse) is always wrong regardless of your culture,
      your background, your upbringing, then that’s Absolute Morality.

      But that raises the question, who decides what’s right and wrong if not God?

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    • What area do you live in? Was there no Educate Together school within easy reach?

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    • @ Colm, I hope so.. @Diarmuid, there are no educate together schools nearby :( as I said this was my only option for a school.
      what gets me is that I have no problems in what others believe, NONE whatsoever but why should I or my child be forced into other people’s beliefs?

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    • Alien8 12/09/12 #

      Irene, unfortunately unless it is organised by the parents that they are not going to these ceremonies, by the time you get to 2nd year, other parents will be so exhausted by this crap, they will just go along with it (we’re an atheist family, but my wife was absolutely under such a bombardment of church meetings, time off and that she gave in and had a private christening to allow our daughter take part in what she seen as a school event)

      And Diarmud, the point is all the feckin schools are catholic, there few ET schools and it is impossible to change a local school to one… But you shouldn’t have to – there are schools there, can we not just let kids go without the religion?

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    • Ruth

      Q: I’m sure you do have morals, but they’re probably Christian morals. Ans: Yes including Homophobia perhaps?

      Q IF you take God out of the equation, then where do morals come from? Ans: So without a god to threaten you you’d steal, lie, cheat and slaughter? Our morals evolved is the answer. You do believe in evolution? It suits us all to have evolved a set of morals to live in efficient groups. If this human behaviour hadn’t evolved we would have wiped each other out a long time ago. As Richard Dawkins said, “the best place to store spare food is in the belly of your tribesmen.”

      Q: What are morals? Is it just a matter of opinion? (i.e. moral relativism). Ans: No it can be the above plus logic.

      Q: Does Right and Wrong vary according to your culture? Ans: It obviously does, look at different religions and religiously inspired cultures.

      Q: If everyone decided infanticide was okay, would it then be morally okay? Ans: Stupid question. No. However god in the bible asked Abraham to kill his child. Infanticide and murder of others is recommended in the bible. Other religions have practised infanticide based on what they thought their gods wanted.

      Q: If you believe something (say, child abuse) is always wrong regardless of your culture your background, your upbringing, then that’s Absolute Morality. Ans: Homophobia was widespread but is now realised to be repugnant by any moral thinking person.

      Q: But that raises the question, who decides what’s right and wrong if not God? Ans: Which God? Yours? The Hindu’s 250,000 Gods? The ancient Greeks Gods?

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    • Couldn’t have put that better myself William :)

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    • Saint Ruth declares “But that raises the question, who decides what’s right and wrong if not God?”

      The answer, Ruth, is YOU.
      Every individual must take responsibility for their actions. God has no responsibility whether it/he/she exists or not. One problem with institutional religion is a tendency for some followers to think that all moral decisions are covered by the doctrines and creeds of their faith. Which is not the case. The individual must bear the entire burden of responsibility for the consequences of their own actions. Its also true that modern western society is particularly good at encouraging people to apportion blame and/or culpability at anyone’s door other than their own.
      As for what is the definition of right or wrong, that is another question entirely.

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    • Please take this as an extra thumbs up William, nicely done.

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  • Religious consolation is one thing but when it fights for class time against genuine subjects we should be embarrassed as a country. I remember being told I couldn’t opt out of religion to do French grinds for the Leaving Cert.

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    • Whoever told you you couldnt opt out of religion was wrong. there is a legal requirement to be allowed opt out of religion. Although the parents have to exercise this right, the Student is not allowed to off their own batt. Religious Education by the way IS a genuine subject.

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    • censored 12/09/12 #

      If a kid “opts out” of religion, what do they do during the 10% time?

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    • @censored,
      In most situation they would do their own homework or personal revision. Remember this includes pupils of minority religions as well as secular backgrounds. I have heard of classes being subdivided into different rooms when possible. I don’t know how common it is though.

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  • It is beyond comprehension that religion is still being thought in schools !! The counter argument is always “well religion teaches children morals ” eh teach morals and ethics that apply to the real modern world not from a magic book that would have us all acting as if we were back in the stone age !!

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  • Sharrow 12/09/12 #

    and if your children are not christian never mind catholic is it nearly impossible to have them removed from class during the half an hour a day which is spend on RE and then there are the prayers at the start of the day, before and after lunch at the end of the day as well as the hymns learned during music lessons.

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    • Isn’t it in the constitution that you don’t have to do religion in school. Ethics and perhaps later philosophy should be taught in schools. I think a national campaign should be organised to this effect. Religion should be done in churches.

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    • Alien8 12/09/12 #

      It’s not in the constitution, that just covers a school must have an “ethos”. The curriculum is dictated by the DoE who leave it up to the schools, which allows individual priests (as chairs of boards of management due to the ethos requirement) to dictate how much time to the principal to teach religion.
      What is the religious teaching percentage in educate together?

      Bear on mind that all children are are forced to attend this catholic education ( there is no figure for how many school children are children of Catholics, just total percentages of catholics and total numbers of kids), which is taught as history, does not cover other religions in proportion (10 pages of 400 on Judaism, 4 on Protestantism, 2 pages on Islam) and teaches hatred of non religious (an example, the only section related to atheist in text book is that they “don’t know”). The also include fascinating facts like how god made people from muck.

      I’m beginning to despise the argument that parents are hypocrites… The facts are there, a large proportion of families are not catholic, yet 98% attend these ceremonies. It is not possible to leave children ostracised for large portions of the year when the rest of the class are participating, so it is easier to go along than making a stand. Although it is the right thing to do, there is not enough critical mass to change this. Make communion and confirmation outside of school hours, and see who is a hippocrates then – that is why they want it in school time. Oh, and this preparation time is on top of the 10%

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  • I always dislike the use of the word “teach” when it comes to religion. With any other subject you are taught to think. In Science for example, you learn not just the laws but the proofs. In Religion you are not taught about religion from a historical perspective, or no one would believe in it any more.

    What happens is that a load of superstitious nonsense is imparted as fact without any logic, evidence, proof, or perspective.

    Then there’s the continuous repetition of prayers, it is indeed brain washing, not teaching.

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    • I remember many discussions in religion class especially in secondary school. Funnily enough I don’t recall discussions or debates in science and certainly not maths. Of course you may be from a older generation than me so maybe the situation was different years back.

      All the same the class was never taken seriously and it could be much improved to be more engaging and relevant. I actually preferred science class because it was challenging and had an exam at the end unlike religion. Every class needs to present its own challenges.

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  • I agree St.Ruth…the petty, unjust, misogynistic, homophobic, racist,vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser of the Bible is a wonderful source of moral values!

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  • Replace religious teaching with teaching of a language.. French/German/ spanish/ Chinese..

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  • The Brainwashing continues

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  • I favour compulsory secular education, which could include moral philosophy, to leave religious education to be done OUTSIDE of the school IF parents want it provided. At present there is no satisfactory choice for non-catholics or dissenting catholics (other faiths, atheists, agnostics etc) to be schooled without accumulating doctrinal baggage. Other than making students aware of the existence of religions (plural) it should be a personal or parental decision pure and simple whether the child is given faith specific instruction.

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  • This is true, St Ruth. But the reason parents sed their children to religious schools in the UK is not necessarily a religious one. Many parents whether belonging to a particular faith group or not send their children to faith schools because of their perceived superiority un education there as opposed to state schools. You would be surprised at the number of non Catholic women in the UK who have been sent to convent schools by their parents and I’m sure the same applies to men.

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  • We owe it to future generations to ensure that their civil liberties are not violated. The school system here is used as a tool for indoctrination by the RCC . Religion must be a free choice yet roman catholism is all to often imposed on young innocent minds to weak to resist.

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  • This is true, St Ruth. But the reason parents send their children to religious schools in the UK is not necessarily a religious one. Many parents whether belonging to a particular faith group or not send their children to faith schools because of their perceived superiority un education there as opposed to state schools. You would be surprised at the number of non Catholic women in the UK who have been sent to convent schools by their parents and I’m sure the same applies to men. We on the other hand have had no choice until recently with the growth of multidenominational schools.

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  • all schools should be secular,religion should be thought by parents if they so wish

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  • @ John Horan. This is also true as I’ve been trying to express it in the above post (though not as well as you). My original point was not about five-day-a-week schools. I was talking about the system of Sunday schools which were held either in a church hall or even the rectory of the protestant church, usually after communion service on a sunday for an hour or two when Protestant children would be educated in the doctrine of their faith. They were also given a thorough grounding in the bible (something conspicuously lacking in Catholic religious teaching).
    BTW please excuse any typos in this as I’m using a smartphone keyboard not suited to those of us endowed with larger fingers!

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  • Reg 12/09/12 #

    Time to stop this nonsense.

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  • Let’s have more maths and less religion.

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  • About 92% of all the Primary Schools in the country are Catholic schools. Why does it surprise anyone that 10% of the clas time would be taken up with Religious instruction? people assume that all schools in the country are ran by the state. they are not. These schools are catholic and are bound to uphold the Catholic ethos and this includes a half hour class per day on Catechetical instruction. Now I too feel that the State should be providing a public school system that is free of a catechetical or confessional approach and hopefully going forward this will happen, but for the moment most of our pupils at primary level are in Catholic schools. All parents of Pupils in the state have a legal right to withdraw their child from religion class. it is the logistical implementing of this that sometimes causes issues for the school but not Pupil can be forced to participate in a religion class at primary or secondary level. I do feel though that Religious Education is a proper subject and does have a place in the school curriculum. It should not be forced on anyone though and should not be taught from the position of one faith. Ethics, morality, World Religions and Philosophy should be taught instead of or alongside faith based material. At Secondary level of course the model for RE has moved towards this more broader approach already since the introduction of RE as an exam subject in the last 10 years. Religion is a proper subject and can be taught academically. it is also important for students to have the opportunity to have some Spiritual input into their day or week. At Second level currently there are some schools who only give one Religion class a week to their students, this is becoming more common in Community colleges. for those who think that there isn’t a seperation of Church and State, there is; its just that the Catholic church owns or controlls 92% of the Primary schools and about 60% of the secondary schools in the country and they are strongly represented in the world of Education generally. this needs to change.

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  • How many primary school children are taught that Finn McCool etc was HISTORY! That the story of the Salmon of knowledge was HISTORY! Not MYTH. Not a load of b*******, but HISTORY FFS!

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    • Barry 12/09/12 #

      Went to primary school during 1980’s and I can tell you we were thought it as myth and legend…certainly not history.

      One very worrying thing in secondary school is I had a geography teacher who was also the religious teacher, she used to teach parts of geography as theory…….oh the amount of arguments I used to have with her each time she tried such nonsense.

      She also used to teach in religion that people were born knowing right from wrong, at the time I argued that if you grew up in a society that believed it was ok to kill somebody if they disrespected your family or you then you would not see this as wrong and you were infact not born knowing right from wrong as society thought you this….She disagreed and threw me out of the class at the time.

      However as history and even recent events have shown us, I was right and many people especially of different faiths do infact see nothing wrong with killing people if they disrespect them, there family or there belief system.

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    • Well we were taught it as straight up history! I didn’t know it wasn’t fact until I got older. I had religion teachers like that though. Pious yokes who thought exactly what they believed and the way they believed it was the only right way and if you questioned it you were ripped to shreds. That is the completely wrong way to teach. There has to be discussion, argument, different opinions etc. but often there isn’t. Often it is, this is what is truth, swallow it!

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    • Not one I’d imagine. It’s taught as mythology.

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    • It was taught as Folklore to us.

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    • Why was it taught at all? Who thinks that primary school children should learn something that isn’t even true, whether they teach it as mythology or history? Who thinks it is a good idea to waste a percentage of the school week teaching something that will be of no significant use to the children as they grow up. More time could have been spent on something that actually mattered (such as English).

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    • @Christine Downey….em, no-one learns it as actual history. I was at school during the 1970s and was taught that it was mythology….what kind of timewarp were you educated in?

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    • @ Barry try having your Religion teacher also being your History teacher. That was a barrel of laughs.

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  • My God! How many people moaning about religion and Irish cannot spell taught? Thought and taught are not the same!!!!! Maybe you should have paid more attention in English class.

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  • There is one striking aspect about religious education, that is conspicuous by its absence… there is no exam. Why would any society teach a seemingly important subject, but then never test it’s students in that subject?. I can only conclude that the sections of society that insist upon religious dogma being part of the educational system, haven’t got the courage of their own convictions. If they had, they would be unafraid to listen to opposing views.

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  • How much does teaching the Irish language cost? For something that is a cultural pursuit like knitting Aran jumpers ? why do the schools waste so much time and money handicapping our future instead of teaching a language which would help people get a career in any other country or in one of our multicultural companies in Ireland. The only place Irish helps is getting a job in our civil service. It’s no wonder we are a bankrupt nation.

    languages hat could be used to

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  • 10% spent on religion indoctrinating children.

    14% spent on “Irish” indoctrinating children.

    This state has to stop serving special interests and start serving its citizens. Imagine what we could achieve as a people if we used this time productively and creatively!

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    • Eric – learning a language could hardly be termed “indoctrination”? (given the proven benefits languages bring to kids mental abilities)…
      So pray tell, what is the “indoctrination” associated with Irish….?

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  • iBob101 12/09/12 #

    What is school for? Is it for learning thinking skills and knowledge to help you get on well in life and become a productive member of society? Or is it about learning what a “mortler” is?

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  • Do we ever learn?

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  • Smiley 13/09/12 #

    Ireland is one of the lowest countries in OECD for the amount of time spent teaching mathematics. It’s time for a shake-up.

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  • So the crazy lady from Germany who belittled Ireland for spending more on drink than education in her Swiss article forgot to mention our spend on educaton is above average. Now I can have a drink now and not feel guilty.

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  • The amount of lack of understanding on here amazes but does not surprise me. I taught Humanities in US State Universities and one religiously-based (Protestant-denominated) one. Teaching about JESUS and teaching students to have a personal Faith in Him and what he says about the need for a structured system, known as koholeth, assembly, ekklesia Church in English are nowhere near the same. As parents we teach children to practice hygiene, good eating habits and about the dangers of certain activities and people who can hurt them. Why then leave it to them to figure out from themselves or their culture what right and wrong are- that would be the same as leaving Toilet Cleaner and Orange Juice in the refrigerator so they can learn for themselves. Every culture has religious values, beliefs and ethical wrongs/rights and the more pluralistic the more diverse. The USA at present has de facto estabished Secular Humanism as its “national” religion, atheism, “moral relativism” are PC- you beleive the Moon is made of Green Cheese; you think the Earth is 6000 years old, I believe some impersonal force wound up the world and it is not God. An educated Catholic Christian would be taught that the Genesis story is MYTH, in the CLASSICAL SENSE that it tells a SACRED STORY which is not literally true in the popular sense but LITERALLY TRUE in the sense that it contains a SACRED TEACHING that The One God taught- the Creation of Man in Genesis is a God-version of a Babylonian Myth that blood and mud were mixed by the gods to creat Man- the Holy Spirit version is that BREATH, symbol of LIFE, not blood, the other symbol of life was joined with ADAMAH, Adam, Mud/dirt/earth and is in GOD’s IMAGE and LIKENESS. Separation of Church-State is raw camel dung! IF they are separate, why then does the STATE that passes CIVIL LAWS that are EXACTLY the Bible Law- no murder, adultery, perjury, stealing and rape. IF abortion is “choice” “my body” then dump the CIVIL CODE about the other moral code; if MARRIAGE is not M and W, then give me “choice” over “my body” so I can marry two men, two women and rent a JACKASS for the weekend to give them a break? FAITH and REASON are twins in the CATHOLIC-CHRISTIAN system. I learned this and more after a top class private education because in that era we knew nothing about Space, the Moon, antibiotics and the Babylonian Myths were only found in IRAQ in the mid-19th century so it is taking all that time to teach the teachers. The Secret to Wisdom is learning so much we finally disccover we know nothing and that starts us learning. I am still at it and am writing a HUMANITIES TEXTBOOK to the present illiterate generation and the one or two before it are not subject to an overload of camel dung. BTW- the BRADAN Salmon story about Cu Cuhailain is right out of the BIBLE- Samson’s long hair was his SECRET STRENGTH. See how important it is to learn how much we do not know!!! EVER7 CULTURE also has a BIG FLOOD story, God’s Holy Spirit made it a story of HIS DESIRE TO SAVE, and it has SFA to do with animals in a Boat.

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  • It is beyond comprehension that Raoire Quinn is minister for Education. Totally corrupt system of politics.

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  • Combine the 2 I say !! If I have 10 Jesuses and I take away 5 Jesuses !! How many Jesuses do I have left.. Answer 3 Jesuses 2 Mohammads and 4 Buddhas !!!

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