If Fianna Fail win the next election, I will close my company and move abroad. Company Layoffs would follow a Fianna Fail re-election.

ITS Student, you don’t have a company, kop on!

Speaking as a business owner who employs 24 people.

Sure ITS Student, in your head!!! In your head!!

Those who haven’t seen a second bailout imminent should FF win.

I wouldnt vote for FF that for sure but you seem pretty sure fg are any better? run over their opposition in the dail over the years. they said ‘lower taxes more, raise benifits more, we’ll get rid of stamp duty’ oh and the bug doosie they supported the bailout along with ff..

People without a good choice will always make bad choices! ;)

More like ordnary people with ordnary common sense! Michael for Teaseach!!

Collective amnesia.

Same here…I’d move as far away as I can. Utterly unbelievable that people have forgotten what FF did to this country and have made him the most popular political leader. Just goes to show what short memories the electorate have in this country and why we’ll be stuck with the same political incompetants for years to come. For Christ’s sake..wake up to these people.

I am not a ff. supporter but you have to accept that ff is very different now compared to 2 years ago. The biggest offenders in the past are no longer ff Tds. Just shows how disappointed people are with the current government.

Definite LOL! The cat that ate the canary – or rather, country!!

“They destroyed this country” is surely an exaggeration?

The problem is there is no alternative. The people want liars and bullsh1tters as leaders and until that changes…….

“The problem is there is no alternative”

ALTERNATIVES: Sinn Fein, Independents, Libertas, Socialist Party, Democratic Party.

SF=ex communist terrorists
Independents=Wallace , Mungo Gerry. Lawlor… you’re joking?
Libertas=Catholic right wing nut jobs
Socialist=Communist light. It’s socialist policies have us in the mess. What’s AIB but a state body?
Democratic party?

The problem is as Churchill said, democracy is the worst form of government………….except for all the others.

Most people are poorly read and have daft notions of what are correct policies. The politicians then have to pander to their daft demands. “Until philosophers are kings and kings philosophers …. cities will never have rest from their evils.” I suspect until the people are philosophers……………

William,

Ireland didn’t have a fiscal problem until Fianna Fail bailed out our BANKS. The country was sacrificed to save private investors.

If you want to be accurate about it, ITS Student, the problem started long before that, when the government started using PD taxes to fund Fianna Fáil social welfare payments. McCreevy realised that this was unsustainable, and started to cut the budget but Bertie wanted to buy the 2007 election, and so shipped him off to Brussels in ’04.

The bank bailout made matters a lot worse, I’ll give you that, but it was far from being the only problem. We would have had pretty nasty austerity anyway.

Fiachra – Oh please! If I hired someone to turnaround my company sales and the best they could do after 14 years of failure is blame it on social welfare, I’d fire them. In this world (unlike how Fianna Fail bots prefer to think) there are winners and losers. You either produce results or you’re fired.

@ITS… either produce results or get fired??? I thought you were left wing??

Well to be pedantic, I blame it on PD taxes more than Fianna Fáil social welfare payments, because it was fairly depressing seeing most of the positive things we achieved over a decade or so just turn into dust.

“You either produce results or you’re fired”

Correct. Which is why we lost the last election.

ITS, in a capitalist society governments don’t “bail out” private businesses. The banks, like all businesses that screw up, need to fail. That’s why capitalism is very efficient. We are socialist.

Exactly William. If only people didn’t just vote for whomever pandered to their own needs and spouted populist nonsense.. like all on the left… or if the right wasn’t in the pockets of vested interests…

Capitalism works… it’s democracy that seems to fail us here.

Darren, have you a solution? Because I haven’t.

People need to start voting for people who will tell them the truth. It’s been accepted for centuries that anyone standing for election that told the truth to the electorate couldn’t get elected.

You can see from the red thumbs, THEY don’t understand :(

Every red thumb above is a demand for lies.

“in a capitalist society governments don’t “bail out” private businesses”

Fianna Fail bailed out banks because they needed the business vote. It backfired upon them. And good riddance to Fianna Fail. I hope I never see them in government again.

ITS, businesses cannot vote in Ireland. The number of business owners is tiny.

FF bailed out the banks for a number of reasons but primarily because they are not a capitalist party, they’re a populist semi-socialist, interfering in society party. They get power by raising taxes and spending it. It doesn’t matter if the raising of the taxes and the spending and the wasting of money makes no sense. It only needs to look to people like it makes sense.

If the country was run on capitalist principals the bad banks would have gone bust and no one would have though anything of it.

Wud u like to pin point sf’s communist policies please. I wud really like to read em.

M Bowe: I did say “EX communist terrorist”.

SF were, and still probably are, on the extreme left of socialism and at some point that melds with communism. SF policies have varied over the years with support from and visits to communist dictatorships such as Cuba and North Korea. There were also contacts with the USSR. It’s hard to know now what their actual policies are as SF and it’s members are very secretive but they are without doubt the most left wing party in the Republic, although I can’t see the connection with a 32 county Republic, which is SF’s main agenda, and whether it’s a left wing or right wing republic.

I’m out of here too if they win.

What sort of morons want them back?! I really don’t understand this one.

D’you know what, if we, the Irish people, vote this shower back in, we deserve everything we get.

My god! who are these people surveying?? Bankers and developers only?????? Can anyone answer this because I’m really at a loss to understand how we could be supporting a party that near ruined us. How short are our memories? I too will give up this country if they get in but before that, do all I can to ruin and finish these bastards.

What business… your lemonade stand?

Cliona,

I own a medium enterprise that employs 24 local people. It barely survived during Fianna Fail’s reign of economic terror. Should Fianna Fail win the next elections, I will immediately close it and make my 24 employees redundant. Then Fianna Fail will answer to them.

I’m not arguing with you, just remember that all this started in the U.S. The ripple from that hit Europe. I seriously doubt that FF caused Europe to go to the dogs, FF had no effect on Greece, Spain and Italy etc and according to Time magazine France are next. FF is a new party, most of the old heads are gone. Also, that’s a strange attitude for a business man… you’d be willing to sacrifice 24 Irish jobs over a political party? A bit selfish. Did you have this attitude during the good times?

Jesus Christ! If I was employed by you and knew that you cared that much about your employees I’d piss in your coffee and hand it to you every morning with a smile on my face!

Cliona:

Fianna Fail are 100% responsible for tying Ireland’s fate to doomed banks (Anglo Irish Bank)
—————————————————————————————————————————————————-

FF had the opportunity to skip the guarantee BUT CHOSE NOT TO DO SO
—————————————————————————————————————————————————-

FF party are corrupt by nature and still have dodgy TD’s such as Willie O’Dea, Micheal Martin, Eamon O’Cuiv, Dara Calleary
—————————————————————————————————————————————————-

The only selfish people are the Fianna Fail crackpots and their interest groups who want special “deals” to buy votes.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Company Layoffs will follow a Fianna Fail re-election.

FF aren’t perfect, but they are preferable to Shinners and lefties who would destroy middle class and business in an attempt to fund their idle and dependent supporters

@Cliona
…Well theres one FF voter anyway !

Cliona- your right. It did start in the US; neo-liberal economics that is, inc. Low tax rates, minimal financial regulation, privatisation of strategic state companies and the pyramid scheme that was our property Market. FF bought into all of that, along with the PDs and sold us a lie for years which was that we could have Scandinavian social services with American tax rates. For the mess that this led to, FF should disband and disperse to the others parties, giving us the prospect of proper left- right politics.

Fianna Fail deregulated the banks in the late 1980’s under the illusion that free-market capitalism would work despite evidence it never works. IR£6 BILLION tax breaks to the top 1% since the 1980’s and despite repeated warnings, Fianna Fail voters blew the boom. Now I invite you to view our debt clock:

http://www.debtclock.ie/

Fianna Fail debt: € 135,867,929,077

Debt for every man, woman and child in Ireland:
€30,493

As of 14:19 today.

What’s your business ITS, surely a bit if free advertising wouldn’t upset you

As I too…Irish politics and people are doomed if they ever re-elect any of these clowns again….

Prob farmers :s their strongest followers now that developers have gone to the wall.

Actually we have more support than any other party in Dublin (unless you count “independents” as a party). The relevant part is on page 21. http://www.banda.ie/assets/files/pdf/Sunday%20Times%20November%20full%20report.pdf

@peter we had 150,000 natives claiming they were unable to find work at same time as 50k came in each year to work, the vast majority of which worked and paid the taxes that funded the dole of the native idle

Irish tax payer

did I not read that per month 72, 000 immigrants arrive each and every month and 80, 000 Irish are emmigrating. ..

not all immigrants have paided work and those that do are often undercutting Irish workers in the unskilled sector.
while most immigrants will send back home a large portion of their salaries starving the Irish economy of this much needed money.

while I’m aware their are some Irish that don’t want to work this is true of some off our recent immigrants.

To attempt to say our unemployment is so high because Irish don’t want to work is unfair. those with youth and qualifications are filling the planes departing Ireland, those remaining here have difficult times ahead. but proclaiming Irish are lazy and rather be unemployed is just wrong, very wrong.

@Fiachra. So what plans do FF have to save us all, offer tax breaks to build Tescos on every mountain top maybe.

@Mark. Agreed, look whose in charge of the Budget now, Michael Noonan the biggest dinosaur in the Dail at the moment.

It will be Enda’s doing, pushing voters back to FF says it all about this Coalition!

As long as you’re not replacing him with Fianna Fail. Anyone but FF / FG. The private sector is being destroyed because of the € 30 billion Anglo Irish Bank debt inflicted by FF and continued by FG.

Aye F(F)(G) won’t see my vote. FF never had it and FG wasted it. I’ll be delighted to see inda wiped out next GE. Bring on the budget for the final nail in the coffin of the EU puppet party.

FGs vote remains solid. Any change is within the margin of error.

Sinn Fein are dropping voters like the plague and Fianna Fail are racing forward at their expense. If anybody needs to be worried, its Sinn Fein. Having such a secure lead for so long, they let it fall away.

No one cares about SF at this time, their not in power so can gain again in time. The silver bullet is FG have gone down in the polls very very worrying for them. Their bluff is called they won’t see a second term and I for one will be ecstatic “not another red cent” well Enda not another wasted vote.

We have a worrying right-wing divide that seems to have serious sight loss. Imagine re-electing a corrupt party to lead Ireland into a second bailout with MORE tax rises against the private sector? Irish people need to look into their hearts and give the left a chance.

@ITS, its the left wing parties and public sector party (Labour) who will screw private sector so collapse in SF vote and decrease in support for Labour are most welcome

Speaking as a business owner who employs 24 people, I am prepared to give Sinn Fein a chance. They pledged to introduce more business friendly measures by legislating for an interest rate cap banks can charge clients. Sinn Fein also pledged a credible stimulus for the local economy (which is the backbone of the Irish economy). FF/FG on the other hand allowed banks to increase interest rates despite the state holding a large stake in each bank.

How many more times do you want FF and FG to ruin the country, Irish tax payer?

The Dail is just a glorified school debate, think everyones sick of this sharade.

It might be a school debate but at least they could spell charade!!

Maybe. But you got an alternative? A serious one?

Derren – Independents, Sinn Fein, United Left Alliance, Socialist Party, Libertas…

@ITS… I asked for a serious alternative.

I have to agree with Darren. There are no creditable alternatives other than a handful of independents who unfortunately are outside of my constituency.

libertas? sf? socialist party? really? libertas is ultra right wing and wants the complete federalisation of the legal and monetary systems in every eu country, sf run parties in 2 countries with opposite campaigns on the same issues, plus they preach ‘do as i say, not as i do’, they are just as bad as ff/fg/lab, the socialist party want to nationalise ALL industry and take ALL the money of any wealthy people living in Ireland, can you imagine it? (i know this as i was a member before), ULA has some strong individuals but no leadership and too many varying agendas, i cant see why pbp and the socialist party dont just join together, these are not alternatives

No Darren – you asked for a RIGHT-WING alternative. Thank’s for exposing yourself.

Yes. I am sure that an anti-business, welfare-inflating, success-penalising, union-pandering direction is the way to go… that will cultivate recovery.

Darren:

Fianna Fail threw money at problems.
Fianna Fail penalized businesses by extra taxes.
Fianna Fail famously stated “we will spend it” during their budgetary speech.
Fianna Fail created tax breaks for businesses to exploit at the expense of the country.

Well then let’s get off the media outlets and create an alternative instead of bitching about it. We are great talkers but when it comes to doing something there is a real “sure someone else will” attitude in Ireland.

Never said I was for the FF jokers. Plonkers to the end. But the left in this country just want to penalise my hard work.. and business.
How about a sensible, non- religious, fiscally reliable, pro-education party? That would be perfect.

Well, I would never vote for Libertas … SP , PBP. Independents even ULA .

SP , PBP. Independents even ULA .Would be my choice .
SF a bit too like FF/FG altho they are good in oppposition .

Darren
To quote YOU ” I am sure that an anti-business, welfare-inflating, success-penalising, union-pandering direction is the way to go… that will cultivate recovery.”
Do you REALLY believe we are in recovery ? Really ? Be honest .
For the first time ever I am BROKE . Nil. Void .
If FF are voted in again I will leave this country is not a solution . Stay and improve our lot .

http://www.idp.ie

www.http://directdemocracyireland.ie

“How about a sensible, non- religious, fiscally reliable, pro-education party?”

In that case, it would be be Sinn Fein. They recently pledged to invest in education TWICE that of FG/FF. Sinn Fein also pledged to balance the deficit whilst not impacting the ordinary Irish people. Sinn Fein are non-religious. Sinn Fein also committed to help small and medium enterprises by legislating for a cap on interest rates that Banks can charge clients.

Speaking as a business owner, I would be prepared to give SF a chance.

@Biggins31 are the idp still active? i can find no activity on their web pages post june 2012

@ITS Student
And the funding for all these Shinner fairytales will come from where exactly ?

Please don’t be taken in by the ‘Burn the Bastille’ rhetoric, unfortunately reality is a different place

Looks like Darren’s first comment is where my agreement with him ends. I’m looking for a credible left wing party. I, like many others, felt the labour party fit that role before the general election but have become completely disenfranchised with them since they have gone into government. Now I’m left in limbo with no one I’m willing to vote for.

If sampled randomly then I’m afraid it’s actually a very accurate way of gauging the mood of the nation/population. Says a lot about our political system and about us as a country :-(

NO . We are not a parish in Germany , we are not just an economy either .

I will NEVER forgive them. They destroyed us .

i voted for them last time out but it wasnt because i wanted them in power, it was because i thought we would need a strong opposition to bring balance, i wont be voting for ff/fg/lab/sf/pbp/swa i will not vote for any politician that is a product of this failed system

Robert
Please ,don’t do this. Please do not try and tell people that there is anything good about FF.
They destroyed us , wholly and truly.
Martin was a minister in that destructive administration.
There is no place for FF/FG/Lab/Greens ever again . Even if they changed their names.
Enough bs. Never again.

Maggie – Micheal Martin is an empty suit. He’s like a plastic human that can be shaped to fit any situation and opinion. He is a creep.

We’ve been reading for months about the fact that fianna fail pays women in their administration, far less than they pay men for equal jobs. We’ve been hearing negative reports from fianna fail women, who complained that the men not only earned higher salaries, but had better access to the “jobs”.

FF are like a bunch of strumpets hanging around outside a church whining how they are being persecuted while their heads bob up and down. FF’s reign of error, bankrupting Irish Banks, and tying the country’s fate to doomed banks.

—————————————————————————————————————————————————————

32% of GDP deficit because Fianna Fail socialized Anglo Irish Bank.

—————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Fianna Fail MUST be kept out of government. No sane-minded person would forgive them for the carnage they inflicted upon every Irish man, woman and child.

FG made a very hard decision alright to pay the secret bondholders and in debt our children to a life time of paying back a debt that wasn’t necessary. your right that was a toughie.

They didn’t pay the bond holders they put it off and actually are thinking of not doing it. Fianna Fáil will be adding expense to every living thing on this island for many years to come so don’t compare them. Martin knew what he was doing and still has to issue an apology he also has the cheek to smile and grin like above snakey weasel .

Okayyyyyy

So the billions paid to Anglo where what exactly a golden handshake?
Don’t get me wrong I despise FF but FG even more. They had a chance to deliver on pre election promises but didn’t that’s the bottom line and prob why the floating voters are going back. They can’t dress it up anymore they have nothing but soft leadership re EU, blatant lies and misappropriated public funds re; Cref and now a woman has died due to the lack proper legislation. The list goes on. Their faults out way their positives by a huge amount. They won’t get a second term FF will bag it.

Adam Walsh
”They didn’t pay the bond holders they put it off and actually are thinking of not doing it. ”
A|re you taking the p*ss ? Where in the name of IRELAND have you been . Nice Planet ?
they DID PAY THE BONDHOLDERS to the tune of €64,000,000,000, …
Go away .

@eileen

Yes, Eileen its called a legal contract.

Agreed before the coalition came into power.

Ah jimjim ah ahagh
You have missed the point completely …..
We know the coalition lied and had agreed to uphold that said ‘contract’ legal or otherwise , BUT young ADAM here has just said that they have not paid the bondholders….. read it yourself ! He just wrote it , I quoted Adam . I was correcting him by telling him that €64 Billion has been given away. Take it in slowly Jimjimahah …. It has been handed over . he is very sadly mistaken ?

@eileen

Please don’t patronise, your points are more effective when you debate like a mature adult.

The monies were paid, no one is arguing with that.
If I understand you, you agree with this point too?

The reason it is/was paid is because it is a LEGAL CONTRACT and has to be paid. This was agreed BEFORE the coalition came to power.

So please get off the rant stool you have been on for months and try not alweays criticise the Government who are trying their best in very difficult (inherited) corcumstances.

Blame game yet again. Tut tut

Jim
Yes the monies were paid and no I do not agree that they should have been .
Initially I believed that maybe it was the correct thing to do , because I believe that bills and debts should always be paid . However I started to read and educate myself on where ”our” debt came from …. It is NOT our debt do you know that . It is NOT ours.
Then Enda told the whole world that we went ”mad” borrowing etc Well I didn’t . I paid my own debts – bills ,mortgage, car loan, school books, doctors fees, etc. I was reading up on ”the Troika” ESM, Fiscal treaty EU,ECB etc etc. also I saw that I was being deducted USC’s, Income levy ,PAYE PRSI and then came the HHC and water charges, oh and I pay my Prescription charge of €132 per month (I have a chronic condition,which needs medication but not life threatening TG,and Yes I am grateful that I only have to pay €132 a month as it would be more ) .Oh btw I voted FG . I gave my number one vote to FG…. I was a good little blue shirt …. ‘Til they started to insult my intelligence . The gov, inherited the problems , yes they did and may we Never forget it BUT they are also perpetrating them too. They had NO legal contract …. to pay the unsecure bond holders .
Why are they not creating jobs ? This government are turning us into poverty stricken peasants . Their arrogance and superiority attitude is disturbing AND the worst part of it all is the FACT that Enda Kenny does not engage with people . Real ego trip …. You may think they are doing well , you may believe their spin… But I do not .
I do not care if you think all I do is rant , but I am not telling lies . My life like hundreds of thousands of other people’s lives have changed not for the best . I am angry and frustrated ,broke , worried and tired ,but rather than doing as I am told and going against my own nature and belief system I will object to being made a fool. I object in the strongest manner to the tyranny of Enda Kenny and his government.

are they connected to idp?

Who are they?

Direct Democracy Ireland announced its foundation last week with almost identical ideals as the Irish Democratic Party which was founded in 2010 or 2011, both have 2 main platforms, creating a system whereby members of the public can introduce referenda and allowing the removal of elected representatives (plus any public employee) if they arent doing their jobs correctly

Interesting, will read up on these two. Will be skeptical until I do my research on these.

im skeptical myself, idp seem to be inactive and ddi seem to be already embroiled in a row over ‘plagiarism’ with a similar group, seems a bit daft if they both have the same ideals, ‘we were here first’ kind of row, im not impressed

They are afraid . They will do anything to keep right wing anybodies/ nobodies in power .
They are afraid that the left might get to have too much of a say never mind if they get into power …
Just ask yourself who controls the media ,not just an independent publication like this one , but THE MEDIA ?
As you say a whole new debate for discussion ,if allowed !

Do you work for the sindo i think you will find an empty country if ye jokers get back in sure maybe that,s what FF want.A country of old age pensioners that dont care as long as their pensions are safe and FF are in power i remember King Bertie crying and all the ol dears saying give him a chance ha lovely ol rogue like Charlie well these little rogues robbed and raped the country.As for shinnerbots they leave the SF polliticians get on with the job and from what i can see every mandate SF have put forward FF denounce it and then come back and claim it as their own if ye had’nt yere BUDDIES in the media doing all the work for ye then FF the party that Financially set us back 100 yrs would be down where they should be in the gutter.

Making peoples life easier oh ya FF have really made peoples life easier.Joke of the day.

I also notice a lot of ‘I’ve never voted Sinn Fein before but I will in the next election’ popping up around the comments. They do good propaganda those shinnerbots

Normal people should realize that I will lay off all my 24 workers if FF win the next elections. My company barely survived FF’s previous economic terrorism.

That’s a really good reason to let 24 people go and put them on dole queue just because FF get back in to power that will stand up well in an employment tribunal god help your employees

The economics aren’t in favor of Fianna Fail TD’s because they lead to distortions in the economy. A tax break costs the state and those who have ability to pay more should do so. Fianna Fail TD’s have been pandering to “deals” among the crony voters. When Ireland needs a second bailout, shame on those who vote FF.

Speaking as a business owner who employs 24 people, I will close and move abroad if Fianna Fail win the next elections.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I just said.

Looks like we are… Crazy!

Not you!

Indeed, not I! :-)

FF/FG next coalition you mean! Michael for Teaseach! Its what most ppl want even in FG Id say! After that FG will fall under the FF banner as one center right party and wel be back in our rightfull place running this country for good! :D Wel bring back d good times!