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Dublin: 18 °C Wednesday 19 June, 2013

Opposition cry foul over Revenue pensions ‘mess-up’

Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin demand immediate clarification on how 115,000 pensioners were told they may face extra tax.

Barry Cowen and Pearse Doherty have both criticised the government's handling of the pensions row.
Barry Cowen and Pearse Doherty have both criticised the government's handling of the pensions row.
Image: Laura Hutton / Mark Stedman, Photocall Ireland

OPPOSITION PARTIES have urged the government and the Revenue Commissioners to immediately clarify the circumstances under which 115,000 pensioners were told they may face a higher tax bill for 2012.

The calls came after the Revenue last night said it had identified 115,000 people who may be liable for additional taxes after it compared its records with those of the Department of Social Protection, and found that Revenue records had underestimated the amount a pensioner was receiving from the State.

This morning, a Revenue Commissioners spokesman refused to rule out the possibility of back-taxing pensioners whose income had been understated.

The news has prompted ire among older citizens’ groups, who say many of the pensioners being written to had never sought to underdeclare their pension income – and in many cases had turned out not to have any extra tax liability whatosever.

Fianna Fáil’s social protection spokesperson Barry Cowen said the data exchange between the Revenue Commissioners and the Department was a “gross mismanagement” and called on Michael Noonan to explain why pensioners were not given any notice of receiving warning letters.

“These 115,000 pensioners have essentially been labelled as tax cheats, despite the fact that vast majority of them had no idea their liabilities had been miscalculated. This has caused great distress and confusion among many of our most vulnerable older people.

Who in Government thought it was a good idea to land a letter telling pensioners they are not tax compliant on 115,000 doorsteps just days after Christmas without warning, explanation or clarity on what approach will be taken?

Sinn Féin finance spokesman Pearse Doherty was similarly critical, saying the government’s handling of the situation was “shambolic”.

“First of all these people were told that they are liable for more tax in 2012. This morning a spokesperson from Revenue, speaking on RTÉ, didn’t rule out revenue pursuing these people for back payments over a period of six years causing further shock for these people.

And then by eleven o’clock they are told that they do not need to do anything. We need to see a clarifying statement from the Revenue department to make it clear what these pensioners need to do.

Read: Revenue not ruling out back tax on pensioners

More: 115,000 pensioners told: You’ll have to pay more tax>

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Comments (33 Comments)

  • I may be wrong but,
    Wasn’t Barry Cowen’s brother convicted as a tax defaulters?

    Reply
  • Brilliant tactical move by government to move us on from talking about 40% hike in levy on health insurance.

    Reply
  • Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein fighting with each other to splutter the greatest populist outrage. The issue is very straightforward, about a quarter of pensioners have been failing to declare income for tax purposes. This came to light because under THIS government, for the first time, the Dept fo Social Protection has finally begun to talk to Revenue about pension/social welfare income. Under FF, no such co-ordination ever took place.

    Those indentified as owing tax will be dealt with in the same professional way that Revenue tends to deal with these issues. No-one’s going to be left on the bread line because of this. It’s time FF and SF, rather than bang the populist drum, actually took some tome out to think of the vast majority of pensioners who did declare additional income and who were fully tax-complaint. Or do SF and FF think these pensioners should be treated as fools for payihg the correct level of tax?

    Reply
    • Would love to know how many FF politicians get hit with this, since it is a legacy issue of theirs

      Reply
    • In all honesty there argument is about how the situation has been handled bot that these people are going to be hit! SF has said the revenue commission and the government should of made people aware of the situation before dumping this new tax onto them and FF are asking how long has the government been aware of the situation without letting there pensioners know!

      Reply
    • @Daryl … wouldn’t agree with that interpretation, I’m afraid. It’s a typical political tactic by FF & SF. When you haven’t got anything meaningful to say about the substantive issue, then complain about the modalities.

      Reply
  • In the great tradition of FF turn one section of society on another hence everyones eye off the ball cudos to you FG/Lab didn’t take ye long to learn but hey ye have been learning from FF for 10+ years.

    Reply
  • Let’s be very careful about the ageist types of comments and the need to protect elderly cuddly pensioner types……….after all Mr Fingleton is over seventy and Sean Quinn is somewhere in his mid sixties if I’m not mistaken!

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    • Fingers will have no problem counting down his cosseted retirement years on his E11,000 watch bought by the uninformed taxpayer who funded it.

      Reply
    • My widowed Mother is 84 and is tax compliant , but she is not fully compus mentus (excuse any misspelling) and as such she would be so worried and upset if she opened a letter like this, she would worry about it for ever . It is a disgraceful move by the revenue . They well know how to check up without causing unnecessary worry . Of course people should pay their dues but if they have not and they are genuinely ignorant of the ”crime” then draw a line and start from today… Not all non compliant pensioners are in the same financial brackets as S Quinn or mr Fingleton!!!

      Reply
    • Well said Eileen. It’s just the type of despicable move I’ve come to expect. Disgraceful!

      Reply
  • The problem is this government will spend thousands to collect the fiver that it believes that it is owed. What the right thing to do would be to issue a general amnesty, cut the losses and improve the system, move on.

    Reply
    • Couldnt agree more, and i think its totally wrong the way this FG/Labour government have handld this … They could at least have gone on the airwaves and let folks know what a screw up they had made and warn folks that this is coming … and they should have drawn a line under their own mismaagement and told folks that it will be a forward taxation, ie no impact to those that were unervalued by the Government and Revenues prior to this. How fair is it, that we have folks in their 80′s and 90′s getting letters to say that they are not tax complaint and owe the government back tax… ??? Bloody sickening as far as i am concenerned bg FG and Labour. And these are the same two parties in opposition that would have screamed the house down over this same treatment of old age pensioners ……

      Reply
    • Well said lads. This government is making me sick. They will spend countless hours collecting “cents” when if they want “euros” all they have to do is introduce a fairer method of taxation. But they won’t they’ll continue to spread “doom and gloom” and we’ll be called “begrudgers”. I couldn’t give a sh!t. Can’t shut us all up.

      Reply
    • Agree. Well, mostly. Discomforted by patronising references to folk in their 80s and 90s. It is possible to be 90 and extremely well off and be non-tax compliant…

      Reply
    • Or should that be tax non-compliant? Whatever…

      Reply
    • Joe Sixtwo
      You are spot on . Draw a line , get people tax compliant from today and MOVE ON….. God Almighty it is so tiring stating the obvious ….. It will cost nothing and bring in revenue immediately .
      Cal Mooney
      You are right
      It is awful to think of very elderly / more vulnerable individuals getting these letters …. Heartless fools that sent them out.
      Reada
      We wont be shut up !!

      Reply
    • Reada & Eileen!
      Hell would freeze over first!

      Reply
  • maura 06/01/12 #

    Why should pensioners with large private income not pay tax on their benefits from Social Protection. If you become unemployed, your unemployment benefit under PRSi is taxable so why not pensions. If you are on a 3 day week your benefit is taxable. WHY NOT HAVE ALL FILE A TAX RETURN EACH YEAR STATING TOTAL INCOME FROM WHATEVER SOURCE INCLUDING UNEMPLOYMENT , CHILDREN’S ALLOWANCE AND RENT ALLOWANCE OR WHATEVER, THEN EVERYONE WOULD BE TAX COMPLIANT. IT IS ABOUT TIME DSP SENT INFORMATION TO REVENUE. WELL DONE

    Reply
    • Maura
      Why you ask ….. Because people who have worked all of their lives AND saved and contributed to private pensions to have a comfortable retirement have already paid taxes, now if the revenue want to chase after cents then do so , but from today . The government are not fools . Look at the bigger picture and ask yourself why they want us all arguing over this . They are deflecting our attention from all the other stuff that is happening…

      Reply
  • Surprise surprise….

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  • Got it in one, Desmond , well said !

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    • Thanks Billy. To read some of the other posters here it seems that people not declaring their income for tax purposes is ALL the government’s fault. The old habits of not playing by the rules go deep, supported by the cynical populism of FF & SF. Those of us who do play by the rules are treated as mugs. No more, I’m afraid. It’s time we took our country back from the cute hoors.

      Reply
    • That is not true Desmond. We’re just sick of the order that this shower in government take.

      I love paying tax. I love the fact that it pays our teachers, nurses, Gardaí, unemployed, those on social welfare and anyone in need. What I don’t appreciate is paying it into a big black bank hole!

      Reply
  • By the way Reada your tone is unusually offensive for a woman and how would you know that the current activity of the Revenue is seeking out “cents” when non payment of taxes on contributory State pensions where the recipient already exceeds the threshold would run into thousands in any one year.
    Your further criticism of the Government implies that they direct the Revenue authorities on a day to day basis.
    Would you like to reconsider your rant?

    Reply
    • Mark. I get a bit annoyed at times but I don’t think that my being a female should deter me from expressing my anger. Do i detect a bit of sexism there. I tend to shoot from the hip when I see these scoundrels and the order in which they chose to reform the system.

      And thanks for the invitation Mark but I’ll pass on the invitation to reconsider. I meant every word of it.

      Reply
  • Now more than ever, the Revenue are behaving like extortionists. They have become the enforcement arm of the ECB/IMF mafia.

    Reply
  • Reada you recently commented on the idea that most readers have no idea that your name is actually female and therefor much of your overexcited commentaries may well be viewed as male like! It is not inappropriate to consider many of your rants as aggressive.
    Indeed I was much more concerned at your gross misunderstanding of the duties and responsibilities of officials within the Revenue Authorities and the rather silly idea that they work on the day to day direction, supervision and control of the Government.
    The constant criticism from many quarters that public servants are less than diligent is belied by this particular issue where they have evidence of tax evasion or non payment and protect tax paying citizens and the State by doing their duty. How can you possibly find fault with that and then load your vulgar hostility on the Government of the day?
    Still no room for a recant?

    Reply
    • Mark Rodgers
      Why are you being so defensive of such an outrageous decision by the revenue commissioners ? I am amazed at the lack of empathy of so many people on this thread for people who have worked all their lives AND contributed towards their own retirement plan… I just do not understand the attitudes displayed .

      Reply
    • No recant necessary Mark. I mean what I say and I say what I mean. I’ve already responded to Desmond above. But ftr I am a very proud Irishwoman and I love my country very much. 

      I am one of those people who consider it a privilege to pay tax. As I said to Desmond. I love paying tax. I love the fact that it pays our teachers, nurses, Gardaí, unemployed, those on social welfare and anyone in need. What I don’t appreciate is paying it into a big black bank hole!

      My government is letting us all down.

      Reply
    • And mark if you have any further queries please use the reply button beneath my comment. I hate to see a question go unanswered.

      But goodnight. I can be kind as well. I do try anyway. :-)

      Reply

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