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Dublin: 2 °C Saturday 25 May, 2013

Poll: Should Dublin apologise for its role in the Troubles?

The Taoiseach is meeting with the relatives of victims of the Kingsmill Massacre this afternoon, which is expected to lead to renewed calls for an apology from the Irish government for its role in the conflict.

Image: Lewis Whyld/PA Archive/Press Association Images

THE TAOISEACH ENDA Kenny will this afternoon meet with the families of ten people murdered in the Kingsmill Massacre by the Provisional IRA in 1976.

Thirty-six years ago, ten Protestant men were shot dead, and another was seriously injured, near the village of Kingsmills in South Armagh when the bus they were travelling in was stopped by men wearing British Army uniforms apparently carrying out a routine search.

A report from the PSNI’s Historical Enquiries Team published last year found the Provisional IRA was responsible for the killings, and that the victims had been targeted solely based on their religion.

Kenny will meet with relatives of victims at Government Buildings later today – a meeting which is the result of a year-long campaign by victims’ families. He will also meet a delegation of IRA victims from border areas, led by Northern Ireland’s enterprise minister Arlene Foster of the DUP, next month.

The families of the ten victims have campaigned for a full public inquiry into the killings following last year’s report, and the upcoming meetings are expected to lead to renewed calls from the victims’ families for an apology from the Irish government for its role in the conflict.

We’d like to know what you think: should the Irish government apologise for its role in the Troubles?


Poll Results:





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Comments (108 Comments)

  • We would first need to know what role, if any, the Irish authorities had in any lose of life. Before the full facts are uncovered and made public no apology could happen as nobody would know what the Irish government would be saying sorry for.

    Reply
    • The Northern Irish government discriminated against Catholics, the UVF declares war in 1966 and starts attacking and killing Catholics. The Catholics march for their civil rights and are attacked by the RUC and the British government send in troops to protect the Catholics and the whole sorry mess descends from there. And someone here thinks that the Irish government should apologise. Only in Ireland!

      Reply
    • But seeing as we’re kissing royal arses, and rebuilding our own home-grown aristocracy of corporate/political dynasties, to pre-empt democratic development and evolution…lets ask one of our absentee tax-dodging puppeteers whats the Right tingtadoo…maybe we should apologise for getting in the way when they came over in the first place…made the whole plantation operation take longer than it should have…but its solid now..we’re a mature colony, capable of policing ourselves for RoyalDutchShell and Nato resumption of the Great Game through Eirebase Shannon.
      Yeah..lets apologise for the extra exense we caused by our stubborn pigheadedness. Maybe have a collection to pay for all the lead they had to expend…make restitution. We could add it to the Woods compensation-fund for child-abusers and the multi-generational harness for our crimes of tolerating that wuncha Anglo-Irish bankers.
      Maybe if we roll over one more time they’ll tickle our bellies.

      Reply
    • Ireland is short of dignity at the moment and apologising is just more unjustified giving.

      Reply
    • Yojo 13/09/12 #

      @Damien Flinter. Best comment ever.

      Reply
    • While the Kingsmill Massacre was a shocking episode in the Troubles, it should be taken in context. Firstly, it occurred the day after the Reavey and O’Dowd killings in Whitecross which saw 5 Catholics machine gunned to death by a UVF death squad which was also implicated in a number of other atrocities including the Miami Showband massacre in 1975. It is also alleged by quite reputable sources that one of the ringleaders of that mid-Ulster death squad was an RUC special branch informer…Make of that what you will. It might also be worth mentioning that at Kingsmill, when the paramilitaries asked for the Catholics in the group to be identified, this apparently was done by his co-workers without much hesitation, believing that the ‘soldiers’ were their own…

      Reply
    • Nope deptford..don’t justify it..savagery is savagery.

      Reply
  • I genuinely don’t understand this. Are the Irish Government supposed to apologise for the actions of the IRA? What was the Irish Government’s involvement?

    Reply
    • To clear it up Hugh. The Irish Govt would be apologising for Garda – IRA collusion in the targeting and killing of innocent civilians. Just as the British govt should apolgise for years of collusion between RUC/British Army and Loyalist paramilitaries in the killing of innocent Catholics. Maybe we should come to this juncture first, be more mature about it and apologise, but to be honest the British have far more to apologise about than we do.

      Reply
    • Slight difference, Tommy.
      The former were extra-state rogue actors..the latter were state agents supporting the neo-fascistic orange apartheid regime in its resistence to instituting equal civil rights…something the southern state had a pretty good record on regarding its Protestant citizens, and rightly so, despite all its failings.

      Reply
    • The problem Damien is that atrocities, carnage and horrors of all kinds were perpetrated by all sides during this conflict. The levels are immaterial. If there was colluision between the Garda and the IRA, and that has to be proven conclusively, then no circumstances justify it.

      Reply
    • Its not the collusion..its whether the collusion was official or rogue…we’ll probably never know if it wasn’t another Force Research false-flag stir-the-pot op from Kitson’s manual. It wsn’t ‘Garda collusion’, it was several gardai colluding…major difference. If anything the Garda collusion was with loyalism.

      Reply
  • I can’t answer this question because it depends on whether their is evidence that the Irish Government were involved in activities that caused the death of people in the North or that they deliberately ignored information that would have prevented atrocities.

    If so then they should apologise. But if there isn’t any evidence of this then what would the apology be for?

    Reply
  • Let sleeping dogs lie. The Irish Government is probably the party with the least blame in the whole thing. Raking it all up now will just open old wounds,and the mud slinging will start all over again. Grab the peace and look to the future!

    Reply
  • What a stupid article. What was the Irish governments role? The article doesn’t make sense. Give an example then ask the question. If the government was involved in murder they should do more than apologise but please tell us what the allegations are.

    Reply
  • Dave 13/09/12 #

    If there is something to apologise for, by all means. I fail to see exactly what there is to apologise for though. If anything, the Irish government remained far too aloof while people were being slaughtered!

    Reply
  • I don’t understand why the families have be campaigning for a year to meet Enda Kenny? What have the Irish Government got to do with the killings? I would love to see what comes of this!

    Reply
  • i voted no because i believe what tha government should be apologising for was their lack of involvement,,the Irish government has always had an obligation to provide a political alternative and international diplomatic support for the nationalist population of northern ireland,,and any objective view of the cause of so many pointless deaths on this small island that doesn’t take count of the republics consistant failure on this issue,(for what i believe to be self serving reasons), is inconplete.

    Reply
  • No. Has any one north or south ever apologised to the victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

    Reply
    • Nope, nor indeed for the Belturbet, Castleblaney or Dundalk bombings which occurred around the same time, the initiation inquiry was closed after 3 months and recently funding was cut to the “Justice for the forgotten” campaign.
      Personally I don’t think any Irish government should apologise for actions carried out in the name of an Irish republic and not FOR the Irish republic, they should however apologise for successive governments lethargic and apathetic approach to resolution of atrocities carried out against citizens in their own jurisdiction.

      Reply
  • Why do they want an apology from the Irish Govt? Nobody was running around killing people in the name of the Irish Govt. On the other hand plenty of killing was done in the name of and by forces representing the British Govt. If Irish armed forces were involved then you could look at the Irish Govt for an apology otherwise it makes no sense.

    Reply
  • Apologise for what? British Colonialism?

    Reply
  • Disgusting that the British government can just sit there and ignore their role. The Irish part in what happened is nothing compared to the British involvement for which they’ve said nothing about.

    Reply
  • Cpm 13/09/12 #

    Poll: Should the Journal stop making up utterly baseless and irrelevant polls?

    Reply
  • This poll is a large dose of bollockology!
    Say sorry to whom? For intelligence reports that suggest that a small number of Garda were passing info??
    Bollocks, let them apologise for there part,. Documented fact that their intelligence services across the board colluded with the loyalists for years

    Reply
  • The Irish government have a lot to apologise for,for standing by while catholic family’s where evicted from there homes in the early 70s and standing by during internment when innocent family’s where put in jail without trial.for standing by while the ruc and loyalist murder gangs helped each Other murder innocent Catholics they where standing by looking on when Irish citizens where murdered by a foreign government in bloody Sunday.They stud by when 10 men starved themselves to death.the British government apologised for bloody Sunday.as should the Irish government for there silence during some of the worst years of Irish history.

    Reply
  • Simon 13/09/12 #

    This sounds like the media trying to make a story out nothing…

    Reply
  • no apology necessary,it’s the British at fault

    Reply
  • Did they ever catch the men responsible? Should they not be attempting to apologise rather than lickle Enda

    Reply
  • Will the British Government apologise for the the British army bombings in Dublin and Monaghan. This has been proved.

    Reply
  • I reckon the Irish government should apologise, but they have very, very little to apologise for compared to Westminster. Wonder will people like Ian Paisley ever apologise for whipping up mass hatred of Catholics, which lead to hundreds of sectarian murders?

    Reply
    • What have the Irish Government got to apologise about?

      Reply
    • The small amount of Garda-IRA collusion Will. Though it must be said its a drop in the ocean compared to the British-loyalist collusion for which there has been no apology.

      Reply
    • It’s not just collusion between our security forces and republican paramilitaries . During the height of the conflict many of the IRA atrocities were carried out by republicans living south of the border, who went north to do their dirty deeds and then returned to the south. The biggest security operation in the history of the state was launched not when the IRA was crossing the border at will, but during the foot and mouth crises. That says it all, tho as someone else said, compared to others involved in the conflict we have relatively little to apologise for.

      Reply
    • Hold lads..that was not the Irish state..that was rogue elements. The state, if anything, colluded with the security agenda of Whitehall/Westminster and the RUC/Kitson/MI5 pacification/containment.

      If they need to apologise its for taking so long about getting it together to get external referees in from the US and Europe…and being too polite to Britannia. They should have been raising the isssue far more strongly, particularly in Brussells.

      Reply
    • They should apologise for standing by and doing nothing while fellow Irish people were denied civil rights,denied jobs, denied houses, were attacked by british security forces and loyalist mobs, and in cases murdered by the British forces.

      Reply
    • Westminster has apologised

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    • @eamon well said.all they done was set up accomodation for the poor nationalists who had to flee the north.but other than that they practically ignored what went on

      Reply
    • This request for an apology is a direct result of the historical paranoia and siege mentality associated with loyalism. Like our own nationalism, loyalism is about 80 percent based on songs ,stories and myth and martyrs. The Irish government may not have been as effective as it should have been at fighting terrorism but they were operating against a background where the British army seemed to have carte Blanche to kill civilians without criminal charge, I.e Bloody Sunday and the shoot to kill policy. These acts were perpetrated by agents of the legitimate British government. Kings mill was carried out by terrorists with no mandate from the Irish people. We have nothing to apologise for

      . The southern

      Reply
  • If the Irish Government has any apology to make(even more Indas Fg)it would be to the nationalist community,for ignoring the fasist state the had to rise up against.

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  • There was rumours of collaboration between Guards and the IRA in the killing of 2 RUC chiefs on the way back from a meeting in Dundalk. The Arms Crisis bears another question. There was never any direct involvement or strategic military plan by the Irish gov. If anything the Irish gov was leading the campaign for peace in my opinion.

    Reply
  • I think the journal is trying to stir shit by asking a question like this…just because the good friday agreement happened,doesn’t make it less of a sore subject, kop on,the Irish government have nothing to apologise for!!

    Reply
  • Ridiculous suggestion

    Reply
  • Hardline Unionists claim that the Irish government was colluding with Republicans.Hardline Nationalists claim that the Irish government did nothing to help them.

    Unionists often complain about the fact that Irish Republicans could flee south after carrying out some atrocity.They never seem interested or concerned about how wanted Loyalists fled to Scotland.The Scots are and always have been up to their necks in Loyalist paramilitary collusion.

    Reply
  • Will the british government apologise for the systematic oppression of the Nationalists in the six counties?

    I would like to see an apology from the successive dublin governments who ignored the plight of their country men, women and children in the six counties – who were abandoned by them to debasement, torture and oppression by a British regimne. The term “Im alright Jack” comes to mind.

    Reply
  • Apologise for what? British Colonialism?, for wanting the right to have our own country, have our own laws and not beg for scraps from an English table, have they said sorry for India, Pakistan, South Africa? no of course not, but I tell you this much, if there is so much as a wiff of a Euro in Enda will say sorry for it.

    Reply
  • she’s not your queen so no need to refer to her as ‘queen Elizabeth’. chief of staff of the British armed forces would be more precise. the same chief of staff of the same armed forces responsible for bloody Sunday and colluded with loyalist paramilitaries responsible for the Dublin monaghan bombings.

    Reply
  • Absolutely not….that’s like a rape victim apologising for being raped…we were invaded, subjugated and abused for many centuries….we did not impose a system of plantation on Britain and then set about disenfranchising the natives and then treating them as second rate Citizens in their own lands…what happened up north was wrong and resulted in victims on all sides…as Queen Elizabeth said last year perhaps some things should have been done differently or not at all….wise words from a decent woman….apologising for something not done is just as unhelpful as bookstand finger pointing and the unhelpful game blame…let’s move forward not back

    Reply
  • Apologies show a generosity of understanding towards victims and can go a far way to heal the wounds of such tragedies. However you also admit liability when you apologize and in the case of the troubles with a history of so many tragic occurences it could cause more harm then help!

    Reply
  • It should apologise for not standing up to the sectarian stormont and the british government. Its should apologise for not defending the nationalist people from british imperialism and the thugs of armed loyalism.

    Reply
  • The should apologise for abandoning the people in the 6 counties when they needed them most. They should also apologise for pandering to British State terrorism during the war. They should apologise for shooting Republicans in the back, wrongfully imprisoning Irish republicans. They should apologise for the harrasment of Irish Republicans, that continues to this day.

    Reply
  • Dear Jennifer Wade,
    Please elaborate on what you feel the Irish government should apologise for instead of making a shit stirring vague statement with no foundation of fact of matter? What role did they play if any! The British govt are the ones with blood on their hands not the Irish so maybe run a poll in relation to that le do thoil

    apologise for?

    Reply
    • Hi Chris.
      I didn’t say that the Irish government should make an apology. It’s a question.
      The poll topic is decided – by the newsteam – each day and is based on topical issues. It doesn’t reflect any opinions.
      The purpose of the poll is to prompt reasoned debate and discussion on an issue of interest.

      Reply
    • Cpm 13/09/12 #

      “The purpose of the poll is to prompt reasoned debate and discussion on an issue of interest.”

      So it’s flame bait.

      Reply
  • The Irish government should apologize. They should apologize for the acquiescence to partition, to loyalist intimidation of Irish citizens and for being toadies to a foreign power.

    Reply
  • Codswallop.

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  • “ah leave it ouh!”

    Reply
  • Even if the Gardai were passing information to the IRA, that Times article doesn’t say anything about the Gardai passing in information that led directly to the Kingsmill massacre, so I really don’t see what the government needs to be apologising.

    Reply
  • I don’t think that the government should apologise. They were murdered by an organization that is independent to any state. As for the article, if you think its lazy journalism don’t read it, or comment on it, easy!

    Reply
  • Apologise for doing f*** all while a war was being fought on Irish soil maybe

    Reply
  • Absolutely spot on. I also echo Chris Kelly’s comment . Ludicrous carry on Jennifer to be doing such a ridiculous poll. At least 82% (as at 1pm) didnt reply yes to the question. No surprise there then.

    Reply
  • WHAT IS THIS POLE ABOUT?
    pUT ONE UP THAT ASKS IS THIS LAZY JOURNALISM???

    Reply
  • For apathy maybe

    Reply
  • Since the IRA is not a government body the Irish government are not responsible. and I would be so bold as to say that the GB government is more responsible than the Irish government for terrible acts commited and cover up and deaths. Both sides have blood and blame on their hands. We should not be seeking an apology from GB or be asked for one. a peace treaty should be enough that both sides agreed that fighting should end.

    Reply
  • Both sides had roles but one side more predominantly. I suppose you can deem the collusion by some parts of the Irish govt and security forces with republicans and other Irish roles as the lesser of two evils, especially when we compare ot with what the neighbours did. Both sides should clear it all up, say what needs to be said on the events and move forward.

    The Good Friday Agreement is a good thing, and while opinion polls suggest there’d be no unification by vote currently, in 50 years or so it may happen.

    Though that being said we need to sort out countless things before we take on 6 more counties. You’d need political and structural reform completed before the process began.

    Reply
  • Enda can do whatever his conscience dictates. The loss of lives lost on either side of the conflict are regrettable and unretrievable. If apologising for those lost moves reconciliation one iota forward, what’s the loss to the greater good?

    Reply
  • NO.

    Reply
  • Why is it that the retort “educate yourself” is used primarily by commenters who, measured by their debating skills, don’t seem to be very well-educated? Facts always win over opinions, ands facts are only facts if they can be verified by an external and credible source.

    Reply
  • Can we expect an apology from Sinn Fein for the sustained 25 year bombing campaign including such atrocities as the Deal Barracks Bombing and the attack on Conservative Party Conference?

    Reply
    • Yojo 13/09/12 #

      Your the best troll ever lol!

      Reply
    • As if an apology from a Government infested by lying bastards would be deemed as sincere! Regardless as to whether it was justified or not.

      Reply
    • The attack on the Tory party conference at the time almost made them popular in parts of Britain at the time given the illegal and unjust war Maggie was using her police force to wage against a section of society that dared to stand against her agenda of greed

      Reply
    • Actually it led to a half year pro Tory surge in the opinion polls.

      The data’s available if you look.

      But if the Irish government’s going to apologise then everyone should apologise including Sinn Fein for its attacks, and any other paramilitary organisations acting outside the law, and including the UK government for anything it did that transgressed its duty to maintain civil order on UK soil (whether you agree that it is UK soil or not, it’s recognised as such and they have a duty to maintain order, it’s what they’re there for).

      If everyone does apologise, sincerely, then this might help pre-empt resurgent forces who seem to have taken it upon themselves to try to return to the bad old days, which I would hope none of us really want to see regardless of our personal allegiances.

      Reply
  • There needs to be full disclosure first. Hold nothing back, make it unbiased, scientific. Then we shall know who needs to actually apologise.
    It’s easy to say it was the British, colonialism or whatever, but I think it’s a lot more complicated than the British done it.

    Reply
    • It was the Irish wot dun it..the Stormont racist/sectarian not-an-inch croppy-lie-down atavistic and primitive idiocy..that hopefully is finally on the wane…now if we can shed the shred of the Roman imperial church and meet them halfway…we may get a wiser island culture all round.
      Britannia then colluded, as it usually does in post colonial messes, by supporting its strident brethren on a traditional racist/sectarian basis..because its inbred in their culture of white anglo-saxon protestant supremicism.
      That baton has now been passed trans-Atlantic to the US..who seem to have learned little from the fratricidal history of its imperial parent Europe. Obama was ranting on last night about the ‘light of American values’ again…tell it to the Choctaw.

      Reply
  • If the Irish government had any part in the troubles then yes they should apologis regardless if the British do or do not apologis for their involvement!!

    Reply
  • I would like to see one all inclusive apology. What I mean by that is all parties involved in the conflict meet at once in one place and apologise to the hurt they caused not only to members of the other communities but also to the members of their own community.

    Reply
    • CSEC BIO, I’ve often thought why don’t peace makers include arrangements for comprehensive apoligies from all sides before signing peace deals. Then I think politicians they would be out of a job if there was no conflict for them to sort out. I think your comment is the most fair and honest answer in the long term.

      Reply
  • Well it’s likely Ireland had a role in the troubles, probably not actually fighting but definitely people funding it and saying “ah well they’ve got a point” despite not really having a clue. I mean, there were government ministers accused of running guns for the IRA remember.

    Reply
    • Yes Cormac.. Ireland had a role in the troubles… Part of our Country was colonised… Education yourself will you ??

      Reply
    • Those government minister were hauled before the courts..not quite the same as MI6 and its shell-stooges pulling terror hits north and south and supporting loyalist death-squads. To say nothing of the global propaganda (not least through Section 31 silence)to vilify any resistance to Orange law and Orange order.
      If an apology is wanting, its for standing idly by.

      Reply
    • Yojo 13/09/12 #

      Rape victims play a role in rape too (to pull from another comment) should they apologize for somethin?

      Reply
    • Education yourself?
      Just saying. As for the apology. Was there collusion to apologise for? To be honest if there is an apology to be made I don’t think what the Brits do in regards their own conscience should have any influence on ours. And to clarify, the plan (which was aborted) was not, I think, to run guns to the IRA. It was to arm the catholic civilians so they could defend themselves.

      Reply
    • M Bowe 13/09/12 #

      Operative word I believe is “accused”.

      Reply
  • We should apologise for Mick Collins and his treachery when he signed the treaty. (Are you going to remove this aswell Jennyfur)

    Reply
  • We can’t vote without any information What would the apology be in regards to? Has anyone actually specified what exactly the supposed role of the Irish government was?

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  • Huh wonder when the english n traitor prot irish orangemen apilogise for the oppression o over 800 years o our ppl. And when lezobit#h n maggot thatcher are brought before the war crimes court n executed then maaaaaybe they might get a whoops my bad.

    Reply
  • Certain members of a govt at the time Arranging cash for weapons to be bought by the ira. Weapons that were then used to murder unarmed gardai by saor eire and prob ruc. Investigations then going nowhere with no reason given FF need to apologise. Please don’t delete as these facts have been published.

    Reply
  • WOW. Lots of anglophobes here. If we have ANYTHING to apologise for, we should apologise.

    Let’s try to be the ‘better nation’ we want to be.

    Reply
  • The IRA that came south are now in our government. Pity.
    Limerick is heavily populated with people from the north. We should have introduced a visa system.
    There are more guns in the south of Ireland than ever and the drug trade these guys run is huge. So I am sorry but very little good has come from there. They are also catholic terrorists.
    Great little country. What good has the religion been to Ireland??

    Reply
  • @ Damien Flinter.. Excellent comment.. Comment of the week?? I think so… !

    Reply
  • Maybe we should send Obama over to apologise, he’s an expert at it

    Reply

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