Well said Alan. I noticed his cross too. He also didnt wear the red satin cloak. A simpler pope perhaps.

why not expect miracles?!

Former Cardinal and Pope-elect “Francis I”, Jorge Mario Bergoglio, is accused of helping kidnap opponents of Argentina’s military junta during the 1970′s “Dirty War”, and of baby trafficking, by lawyers and members of the Plaza de Mayo human rights group. (Los Angeles Times, April 17, 2005, “Argentine Cardinal Named in Kidnapping Lawsuit”,

Thankyou Mary. Someone above responded to a comment similar to yours so im not going to enter into a copy n paste competition.

He to my knowledge has never been found guilty or admitted guilt to any of those accusations. Writing the same thing over and over again does not make it true

the case against the church’s involvement is still ongoing in Argentina, his personnel accusers are not left wing Taliban, but 2 priests father Orlando Yorio and father Francisco Jalics of the Jesuit order, who claim he handed them over to the military death squads who tortured them for 6 months, why would they say that ?, and also the De la Cuadra family, who lost 5 family members, accuse him of turning their backs on them when they begged for help, their daughter caught when 5 months pregnant, was murdered after she gave birth,and the baby adopted away to a “befitting catholic family” (church baby-napping sounds familiar to us Irish from the Magdalena’s) strangely enough since 2010 Bergoglio has started to recall fairy stories, that paint him as a swashbuckling scarlet pimpernail type figure, hiding countless numbers on church property,personally smuggling the condemned across the Brazilian border, risking his life etc etc, and other such fantasy tales, asked why he did not reveal these tales before, a spokesman claimed it was because of his “humility” LMFAO, I would recommend “The Silence: from Paulo VI to Bergoglio, the secret links between the Church and the Navy Mechanics School (2005) .( Navy Mechanics School was the torture centre where thousands were tortured to death) by Horacio Verbitsky a award winning Argentinean investigative journalist.

He is a Jesuit and well able to handle anyone and will make changes but moving the ‘large mill stone’ like the Curia will be an uphill battle, lets give him a hand and not throw marbles under his feet. As I said top someone last evening, he will be humble like Francis, hard as Ignatius L and a fast mover like Maradona, and he will achieve some if not all that is needed.

Yeah but I thought Benedict’s name was chosen because of nice reasons too.

Turns out it was more about Bein’adick – especially the risk at which his attitude to condoms puts so many in Africa in danger of Hiv and aids.

He studied chemistry at uni, he cooks his own dinners, preferred an apartment to a palace, didnt need a secretary, rode the bus, worked with the poor…… In other words Stephen he is a normal guy. Lets not deify him.

Hopefully he’ll be a good pope if he remains true to himself. I bet the Curia and Vatican Bank are very scared right now. Jesuits despise greed and overbearing governance.

I hope he will fix some of the dysfunction of the church in what will most likely be a short reign.

All Popes are normal guys Conor, who we honor and don’t deify. We are called by the Holy Spirit in scriptures to honor one another and encourage one another. There is no need for the roman Curia to be scared, but to expect discipline that has its root in humility and love. We should forgive any wrong members of the Curia done, and we should always invite them back into the fold whilst at the same time recognising the sin we ourselves carry on our backs. I pray His Holiness Pope Francis I will fix everything and I know that if he will, he will do it in the spirit of the Gospel and with love.

LOL Stephen you need to go and read about the history of the papacy! The vast majority of popes were far far from normal. Try looking up some of the Borgia Popes!

“He studied chemistry at uni, he cooks his own dinners, preferred an apartment to a palace, didn’t need a secretary, rode the bus. . ”

And well he should. Anyone would think that this comment was about a King or Queen. The way people will now fawn all over ‘his royal holiness’ or whatever they call him, reminds me of Basil Fawlty’s attitude towards the con man who goes by the name Lord Melbury.

(not having a go at you Conor, I know that information, quoted, is from the papers)

Is there really that many gullible people in the world

Who knows Mary, maybe a jesuit is just what the Vatican needs. While I dont expect him to make any changes in attitude towards divorcees, gays or on abortion and contraception….. Maybe Francis will make the papacy more humble and more about caring for people. As a jesuit he should not be too impressed with the Curia or the Vatican Bank.

Hopefully he’ll be a good man and make changes to those at least. He won’t be drawing me back though.

“don’t expected him to makes any changes made in…”. How can you possibly just accept that? The catholic Church is a disgrace. They had a chance to revive their homophobic faith and they flat out rejected it

@richard rough figures put people on this earth with no religious beliefs at around 15%. Thats a lot of so called gullible people. I am a science man myself not religious at all but my mind is open to the possibility that there could be a creator in all this until science proves otherwise. Until then i will refrain from slagging off the 85% of the worlds population who believe in a higher power.

Science has already disproved massive parts of religious beliefs. Why is it always science that has to do the proving?

Theres no point in me expecting him to change. He is a 76 year old conservative in the same mould as JPII. He is not going to change at this stage in his life. Will I ever accept discrimination as a gay man from the hierarchy of the roman catholic church? Never!

He is not the man to change the Vatican on those injustices. But maybe he can start to fix the Vatican in his own way. Maybe the pope after him can push through the changes needed regarding attitudes to divorcees and gays.

In any case I know that the vast majority of honest catholics couldnt care less about what the Vatican says about being gay. Most of them are nauseated anytime they hear the Vatican spouting their nonsense.

As long as the Vatican discriminates against me I will ever be critical of them and their bullying. This I swear! But I’ll never deride ordinary good catholics just for being catholic. This I also swear.

Sadly Conor i don’t think the church will ever accept gays. It’s written in Leviticus about homosexuality so for a Pope to welcome the gay community to the church would open up a precedence of disagreeing with something written in the bible so I think his hands are tied in that regard.

Funny when you think that we are all created by God straight, gay, bi and transgender.

@fergal – Why does science always have to do the proving ?

Heard some stupid questions in my time but that is right up there. Proof is what science is all about fergal.

Catholics don’t recognize Leviticus See My Vest. Jesus “did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it”. That means that we now follow the New Testament teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, and no longer follow Mosaic Law.

I’ll be honest I’ve not practiced religion in a long time but we did study the old testament in school.

You study it as part of the study of Abrahamic religions but Catholics don’t follow Leviticus and if they do it’s usually small sects of nutters.

Some Catholics do follow Leviticus. Jews do as well and Muslims.

The problem for many is that when Catholics do follow Leviticus they treat it as a buffet table: http://damoclesbda.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/leviticus-christianitys-buffet/

Did you ever here the saying,
“There’s no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole”.

Only the zealous arch conservative catholics use leviticus to discriminate…. they casually ignore the things they are supposed to do when wearing clothes of two different clothes, or eating pork, or women not wearing veils i.e. ritual burnings and stonings.

Mostly the Vatican cites Pauls letters to the Corinthians which says a man shall not lie with a man. But Paul despised all things greek so the fact that homosexuality was completely normal to the greeks he wanted to put a stop to.

I once had an on air discussion with Cardinal Cormac Murphy O’Connor a few years ago at the BBC, and I asked him where did Jesus say homosexuality was a sin and he started talking about St. Paul, when I pressed him on it and asked for a direct quote from one of the four gospels legitimised by the Vatican that says homosexuality was a sin, he couldnt provide me with any. I then forgave him of his ignorance much to his amusement.

As for the Vatican stopping discrimination against gay people I cannot see it happening in my lifetime anyway. It would take a young pope of vision to do that and thats just not going to happen anytime soon.

Cheers for that Conor that’s my something new for today learned :-)

Because, Feargal, from the beginning, science has set itself up to be observation- and proof-based.

The christian religion cherry-picks the parts of the Old Testament that suit its message. If you read the King James (Protestant) and the Douai (Catholic) versions you will see small but significant differences in text and interpretation.

I’m referring specifically to religion lads not in general haha. I’m not thick! What I mean is that science IS entirely based on proof and fact. Religion is based on fantasy… Why does science have to disprove god instead of religion proving it is what I originally was getting at.

“Bergoglio — who ran Argentina’s Jesuit order during the dictatorship — told Rubin that he regularly hid people on church property during the dictatorship, and once gave his identity papers to a man with similar features, enabling him to escape across the border. But all this was done in secret, at a time when church leaders publicly endorsed the junta and called on Catholics to restore their “love for country” despite the terror in the streets.”

http://news.yahoo.com/francis-first-pope-americas-193844474.html

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/03/13/will_bergoglios_checkered_past_during_argentinas_dirty_war_come_back_to_haunt_him

Well your average Cardinal doesn’t. Which is why it’s remarked upon. Obviously.

I just find it a bit insulting that the only women in the Vatican are those that do the washing , cooking and cleaning .
I suppose I can’t get excited about such a sexist and unfair organisation . I have nothing against this new pope personally . It’s just that we can only expect more of the same which is disappointing , especially if you happen to be a woman .

“the only women in the Vatican are those that do the washing, cooking and cleaning.”

They aren’t.

Sure they aren’t represented 50/50 in all aspects of the Vatican but that’s changing, slowly but changing all the same.

How do you know that only women do all the washing, cooking, and cleaning?

I didn’t say that only women do the cooking , washing and cleaning . What I said was that the only women that are allowed into the Vatican are the ones that do those particular jobs.
I have looked into this and to date there are five nuns working in the Vatican . I’m quite sure that there are men doing these jobs too .
Just think about the size of the Vatican . It would take an army of cleaners , cooks etc

I was in the Vatican a couple of years ago. There were plenty of women in there who weren’t doing cooking or cleaning. Including my wife.

No they will both burn in Hell, I assume you mean infallible, no human is.

James I rather think that a place called hell is as big a fairy tale as is the popes infallibility all designed to keep us bad folk in line.

I completely agree Bill, the logic of an omnipotent,omnipresent God who creates everything including faulty Sinful Humans whom he is suppose to Love, but will gladly throw them into Hell, a place were you burn and suffer for all of eternity possibly with the odd poke of a pitchfork is equally ridiculous as it is hilarious, sounds like a lovely God indeed.Luckily I was not indoctrinated to believe absurdity.

James we are all given the platform to live a good life, but it’s what we do as independent thinkers and doers that determines what happens us in the end. You are not a puppet and God is pulling no strings, every conscious person is to be held accountable for every action they’ve done. And to think hell is a hot place where a hoof-footed man pokes you with a trident is comical and is conveyed across to children to get the general idea that “hell is bad.” In my view hell is a permanent state of mental/spiritual anguish and unquantifiable despair.

Andrew,people who are indoctrinated in religion are hardly independent thinkers! To believe without evidence is ridiculous whether it be the Assumption of Mary or Muhammad flying to heaven on a winged horse, by that logic we can believe in magic beans and anything can be justified by faith.In the 21st century we still have people who literally believe Noah had two of every animal on an ark and that the Pope is infallible.

There is a difference to being institutionalised by the church, (a man made institution), and having faith in a higher power. That’s exactly what blind faith is; believing in something that has no scientific evidence but you believe it all the same. Faith has helped many people through different stages in life and I bet that a surprising proportion of the atheists on here would mutter a prayer in desperation when hurtling towards earth in a plane crash. I’m not enforcing my faith on anyone but it really grinds me when atheists disrespect my beliefs “gullible people…fairy tales…” etc and enforce their views on me. And for your information I don’t believe in the Old Testament, some of the material there is silly.

Andrew, I don’t know any self respecting atheist who would pray on a plane if it was crashing. What’s God track record of stopping planes plummeting to the ground or through buildings? Superman would be as likely to rescue the plane as God.

Im glad you think the old testament is a bunch of malarkey but the new testament isn’t much better. For your information I don’t mind people believing in a higher power but I can tell you that the Vatican are the furthest thing from being Holy or spiritual.Why do I say that it’s based on facts and evidence,im against any institution that has such an appalling track record.

Believe in a God or a deity if you like but support the Vatican well thats shameful.

Besides innocent women children getting massacred in Syria.. Nope nothing that important..

1.2 billion Catholics out there. Do you not think some of them would be interested?

It’s important because he is a Jesuit, they study science and believe in poverty. Maybe the church has moved to embrace the new world. As I said Jesuits are seen as radicals……

Ali you can thank Russia for that, the west want to go in.

Sure wasn’t it the jesuits who stopped jack from becoming pope!!!:/

Ali,
We all are against what is happening in Syria, lets not forget that Saint-Francis traveled to meet personally the leader of the Muslims during the crusades and tried to bring peace, that the Franciscan order have had a monastery in Damascus ever since, and the christian population of Syria are also under fire. The misery brought upon the population is brought by Muslims on the whole population Muslim and christian alike. Give this man the chance to get into his stride and I believe he has taken the name Francis because he intends to renovate open up and clean out the cobwebs in the Curia and the rest of the Church. Hopefully he will take a note from the book of the Dali Lama who does not need a palace and golden vestments to uphold his moral authority.

would love to know where they get the 1.2b catholics number from.

is it putting together data from the census of each country? the irish census question on religion is pretty flawed.

Well said Eric.

As much as I do not like the Vatican, lets not tar this guy with the sins of his predecessers, maybe he’ll be a good one…….we can hope. I would love to see him throw out all the old guard from the Curia and the Vatican Bank and actually reform both to help the poor and distrribute the great wealth thats hoarded in the Vatican.

When they announced his name as Francesco my first thought was wow, this guy means business by picking a brand new name.

Paul didn’t you get the memo? We cannot be critical of the Pope, the Vatican, it’s dogmatic superstitious teachings and please don’t mention anything about the abuse scandals or the money laundering, or it’s fair and tolerant views on homosexual people, the Faithful might brand you a bigot or a Troll.