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Dublin: 11 °C Monday 20 May, 2013

Hayes: Public sector salaries over €100k have to be looked at

The junior finance minister says that salaries of over €100,000 paid to people in the public sector is “the biggest area” the government needs to look at.

Brian Hayes
Brian Hayes
Image: Mark Stedman/Photocall Ireland

JUNIOR FINANCE MINISTER Brian Hayes has said that salaries of over €100,000 that are paid to workers in the public sector are the “biggest area” that has to be examined by the government.

He was speaking amid the furore over public sector allowances and Public Expenditure and Reform Minister Brendan Howlin’s announcement last week that only one of 1,100 allowances that employees in the public service are entitled to will be abolished immediately for all workers.

Howlin’s failure to achieve the €75 million in savings from the review of around 800 allowances has been heavily criticised but Hayes said that last week’s announcement was a “first step”.

Speaking to the Today with Pat Kenny programme on RTÉ Radio, the Minister of State said that the Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Howlin were now asking ministers to submit plans on how pay rolls costs could be reduced further.

He said:

As a very first step the government have taken the decisions to cancel the 180 allowances of the thousand odd for new entrants but we haven’t precluded the possibility that allowances will be cut for existing people in the public sector.

Hayes said that criticism of Howlin’s announcement last week was “utterly unfair” and insisted that “all issues will be on the table” when it comes to discussions about further pay roll savings.

He also pointed out savings that have already been made.

A totality of €2 billion has been taken out of the public sector pay and pension bill as a result of the measures since 2008 and the measures that Brendan Howlin is introducing now.

“We do need to make more progress on this, I accept that,” he later added while also suggesting that many of the allowances for lower-paid workers are part of their core pay and should be protected.

“The great majority of people who are on very average pay in the public sector and are obtaining these allowances, it’s really part of their core pay,” he said.

High pay

Hayes said that the government was “stuck” with the Croke Park Agreement negotiated by the previous administration but said that should not preclude it from examining some of the biggest salaries in the public sector.

He continued: “If we get this new package which goes then to the implementation group within Croke Park I think that will be progress. But then we have to look at the question of top pay.

Now of course if someone is on €100,000 they are bringing home half of that because of the increase in USC (Universal Social Charge), and because of the increase in tax and because of the reductions at the top level of pay.
But there is… I think the biggest area where we do need to look at is the area of people over €100,000, there’s no doubt about that.

Hayes comments were welcomed by the Sinn Féin deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald who on the same programme said that her party had been raising the issue of the highest paid in the public sector “for the past three years”.

She said that many of the lower-paid had come in for “huge criticism, huge scrutiny, a lot of them people on very modest incomes” adding that the guiding principle of the whole process had to be “equity”.

Though Hayes agreed with this he pointed out that not all savings would be made by targeting the highest paid, saying that they made up about 7,000 people out of 290,000 working in the public sector.

Croke Park Agreement: Where do the political parties stand?

Read: Dáil public accounts committee to examine public sector allowances

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Comments (83 Comments)

  • Hopefully he is including his own salary in that comment.

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    • And pat kennys..

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    • what a TD counts as his salary does not include the perks and benefits in kind that go with it. And the same goes for his advisors, consultants and all other extremely overpaid fatcats.

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    • 1 Jason that is a fair observation.

      2Censored, just because you can type does not entitle you to have a strut for a walk.If “We” are whom you say , then how the hell is it that the vast majority of the people voted this lot into Government. By your own definition you are trying to speak for the minority or els, you are just enjoying a rant.

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    • At least I can hit the correct reply button :D

      And I believe they were elected on their promises, which of course they have failed to deliver. Not one red cent. Remember that? Lastly I believe “strutting” is reserved for the blueshirts among us.

      Reply
  • Angela Kearns earns in excess of €450,000 from her income streams. Brian will you please let us know how somebody running a rehab group gets so well paid. Special favours for friends deserves payback I guess?.

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  • I hope that includes “Public Servants” such as TDs, Senators etc. Howlin needs to get rid of payments to TDs for signing in to do their jobs, walking around money and do a complete revision of the generous allowances the Dail pays itself before starting on allowances paid in rare situations to a handful of public servants.

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  • The Taoiseach is a public servant isn’t he? Why don’t ya start there?!

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  • Any chance that enda kenny will introduce a law where all tds have to vouch for expenses?? maybe will.stop them claiming their full allowences each year

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  • Amazing how the cut off for public sector pay cuts is €100k. Just above TD’s salaries!!!

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  • What about your own salary brian and your un vouched expenses. Is anybody going to look at them.

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    • Are they f*ck going to look at them! These guys have their faces buried in the trough up to their ears and if anyone thinks they’re going to give up that gravy bucket they’re sadly misled.
      Politics has long stopped being a public calling and is nothing more than a very well paid gig with a great salary, great pensions and expenses and free to do what they like. The only ones they serve are themselves….bastids.

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    • spot on, why are there so many family dynasty’s involved in politics because its an easy gig top salaries unvouched expenses our civil servants/politicians should be paid for the amount of people they serve and for getting the job done and get rid of these golden handshakes and exorbitant pensions and these consultants that advise these morons we didn’t elect them so why should we pay for them

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  • Getting up to speed with what most people have already been talking about for nigh on 2 years have we Brian. My god how can he be junior finance minister when he’s 2 years behind the times. We’ve been shouting for an upper wage cap in the public sector for years man, get with the game. Shockingly embarrassing.

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    • Why do people point out that targeting the top Public Sector salaries will save relatively little money as if this is a reason not to do it.
      Less money wasted by government means less money needed in taxes

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    • Reg 24/09/12 #

      It won’t mean less taxes Rory. The country is borrowing in excess of one billion a month to fund services, pay and pensions. That gap has to be closed and the sooner the better.

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    • A job in politics or the senior civil service was never supposed to make anyone a millionaire.
      Only in Ireland.

      I hope that you schiesters are not justifying these extortionate wages because you are paying big stupid mortgages to bust banks, because out here in the private sector the fact is that ”If you cant pay your mortgage, then you cant pay your mortgage”

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    • Who ‘s “we” Jason?

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    • Rory, we are the private sector workers being shafted left right and centre by this government, the ones keeping this country afloat, the ones who have suffered wage cuts (no croke park deal protecting us), the ones with no protections like the public sector has, the one that can’t march or strike cause we’ll lose our jobs if we do.

      Reply
    • “We” is most people, aside from blinkered FG/Labor supporters who just want to defend their party.

      Reply
    • Reg

      I’m aware of the huge numbers were borrowing ignoring bank bailouts, a fact that seems lost on many
      Borrowing now is paid back by more taxes in the future for the likes of my 2 year old daughter to pay because were not sorting this out now.

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    • Eh, Jason, the entire public sector took pay cuts of 15%. Croke park was to prevent against FURTHER pay cut.

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    • JayTee 24/09/12 #

      In addition to the 15% cut, public servants have also been subjected to the same tax increases that private sector workers have. OK stating the obvious there, but people like Jason need to get a bit of perspective.

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    • jason
      the reason it took him 2yrs was he was waiting on 1 of his special advisors(on about 100,000k) to get clarifcation from the senior civil servant(the 1 on over 100,000 european yoyos) to open his mouth.
      watch some of the episodes of yes minister that might give you an idea about how our clowns oops ministers operate
      keep the faith my good man

      Reply
  • Reg 24/09/12 #

    And what about the 100k plus pensions Brian, don’t forget those. Because 100k isn’t a pension, it more than most people will ever earn.

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    • True Reg. It boils my blood when I think what these 2 are on.

      Bertie Ahern €152,331
      Brian Cowen €151,061

      Not forgetting their fine group of ministers who retired at the last GE thus ensuring that they could get top dollar before the pension rules changed.

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    • james 24/09/12 #

      Sorry for jumping in here. But I just seen an advert for “Fast Steam Civil Servants” that is those who are graduates. The starting salary is ?28k (?35k approx). I know of civil servants in one of our soon to be defunct organisations (no names but begins with an F And ends with S…3 letters….)…Clerical Officers earning ?37k with no leaving certs….mmmm I wonder does Mr Hayes know that.

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    • to earn those numbers as a Clerical Officer, the person is likely to have been in the job for several years and, I suspect without any credible prospect of promotion. A sensible gripe should not be about a qualification that was not required when the job was advertised; a gripe should happen if that person is not doing their job right. I employ a manager who has no leaving cert and he earns a good bit more than that. He is great at his job. I have had employees who had qualifications out the yingyang but who couldn’t run a bath, never mind an office.

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  • The expenses are a great way to get money, them TDs Senators and councillors are bleeding the system dry.

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  • Be ‘looked at’ by whom? Why, by none other than Mr Hayes and those very people on €100k plus. That’s whom. So what are the chances . . .

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  • Oh I bet they look at them, then they will laugh as they and their mates are among those people on more than 100k.

    Just like their expenses, they will look and do Sweet Frack All.

    Get ready people, they need money and were the ones who are going to bleed for them.

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  • paul 24/09/12 #

    What’s the 1 allowance that will be abolished immediately?

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  • Did Hayes say that people on 100k take home only half of that? Such ignorance! We are lost if a minister has such a poor grasp of the facts. He ignores tax credits and standard rate cut off.

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  • angie 24/09/12 #

    Hope the reptilian junior minister is proposing to include his own inflated salary and that of his parliamentary colleagues in his review……

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  • am that close myself…I think the budget will finish me off

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  • does the 100k include allowances? interesting that td’s basic salary is just under 100k!

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  • As RTE is a semi-state organisation will it apply to them also?

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  • Flattering picture of the minister.

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  • yes. poor sods on 100,000 salary. suppose I should be grateful for my 21,000 euro teacher salary. *off to work a bit harder*

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  • Tommy C 24/09/12 #

    grand. That rules the vast majority of us out so.
    One more paycut and Im definitely better off on welfare.

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  • Deco 24/09/12 #

    All that’s missing from this picture is a trough and you have the perfect representation of an Irish politician…

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  • Of the 7,000 odd people on 100,000+ contracts, the majority are doctors. Cap the salary of them at 100,000, and watch as Qantas and Air Canada shares treble, as Med Schools all over Ireland close down.

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    • Air Canada is a cheap airline and one of the worst in the world. They’d be more likely to travel in style: First Class on British Airways to continue the champagne lifestyle while the rest of us indentured slaves survive on the average industrial wage of 42k.

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    • Those doing an average industrial job should only get an averaged industrial wage. If you think your job doesn’t pay well enough then either retrain for a better one or negotiate a raise.

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    • He didn’t say he would “cap” them at 100k , he said that the top earners needed to be looked at , Ireland is one of the highest pay levels in Europe for those top earners , bringing them down to more realistic levels does not mean that we gave to “close” medical centres , that’s scare mongering crap , we pay a very high level of money per person to run the healt system on the island and there’s no evidence that by bringing the levels down at the higher level ( some earn 3-400 000 ) a year , of course we should ‘look at this” and get it under control , I’m sick of comments that claim its Armageddon if we try get some sanity into the system , we pay well here and we should be demanding better results from the system.

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  • Can anybody explain to me why Management in the public sector are in the Union or am I incorrect in assuming this?

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  • I thought he struggled on 5k a month?

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  • Including his own? ….well, by the time all the expenses are added up

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  • Ridiculing SF economic policies and then years later copy them only in Ireland.The only reason i say this is because every time i have to listen to a shinner on TV its what they have been saying in all fairness.

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  • Pensions to public sector should be capped at a 100k salary basis.
    Golden handshakes must be ceased; it is simply robbing the taxpayer.
    It is a fair argument that in some cases more than 100k salary needs to be paid to get the right experience and expertise hired. But the reality is, most public servants on over 100k would struggle badly to get a private sector job for much more than that as their efforts in private sector simply won’t cut the mustard in revenues attributable to them to the firm that employs them.

    Put it another way; if there wasn’t the ridiculous gravy train at the top of the public sector, those individuals would be released from the trough of public riches and be allowed to pursue private sector careers to match their lifestyle, expertise and value.

    Perhaps they’d earn the same or more, but I’d expect the market would pay them a fraction for their so-called expertise.

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  • This has been Sinn Féin policy for the past number of years and presented in the annual pre budget submission.

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  • Why can’t they cap consultants wages to around the same amount as they do in the UK? (30% less than here). The fact that the consultants threaten the govt whenever there’s talk of wage cut saying that they’ll leave Ireland if their “measly” ~€6000 a week wage is reduced, where will they go…? They earn too much here to begin with. Other countries have reduced doctor’s wages, they didn’t all flock to different countries there.

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    • Theyll go to Aus, NZ, Cananda and the US where theyd be paid more and the standard of living would be better.
      We’d get the docs from the 3rd world who no one can understand and who take breaks to pray to Mecca 5 times a day.

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    • Poland handled it ok, England seems grand too, doctors don’t seem to be complaining about the lower wages there. Sure we can all earn more money abroad, why are any of us still here…?

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    • Tommy C 24/09/12 #

      Polish medical qualifications may not be recognised in other parts of the world. The Irish qualification is one of the best hence the reason we have so many from outside the EU studying medicine here.
      Poland is a much cheaper place to live as is the UK!

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    • censored 24/09/12 #

      Is there any link between the relatively high wages, especially wages funded by the tax payer, and the high cost of living?

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    • I’d say there are plenty of junior doctors waiting in the winds would love to become consultants

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    • Ya they must find it awful difficult to spend that €1000 a day… I don’t know how they survive…. And btw many foreign med students study here because its cheaper to do so than in their own country, I’m in college I know a lot of them that’s what they told me. All new consultants will be earning less than their current counterparts, just like the teacher wages thing, so I really don’t get why your against decreasing current consultants’ wages… If you were earning ~€220,000 a year and had your own practice and a family here, are you really going to give it all up to earn a little more in a foreign country where you would not be established or known at all….

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    • Current consultants don’t threaten to leave at all. The up and coming registrars certainly do but theyre not doing it from the picket line.

      The time when all docs were from wealthy families is gone. Now we young docs from all social backgrounds. These are the ones who are burdened with hundreds of thousands of euros debt just to train, who start on 30k and paying 12k a year to service a training loan. These are the ones who will leave and we will be the ones moaning when we can’t be seen by a young Irish doctor when we need caring for.

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    • UK docs work a normal working week. Irish docs do not. The higher salaries are in part a compensation for that. On top of the worse conditions, the costs and taxes and fees further offset the wages. The country is haemorrhaging NCHDs – it’s idiotic to suggest making the job worse.

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  • peter 24/09/12 #

    But its alright to earn it in the private sector

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  • Elephant in the room is that public sector don’t pay any tax on these allowances.

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    • Purely for information purposes, the actual number of those in public service employment earning over €100k now stands at 5,808. That’s down from 6,791 last year.

      That’s 1.9% of a total workforce of 292,000 (which is a reduction in employment from its peak of 320,000 in 2008).

      As a matter of interest, the number of people in all sectors who earned over €100k in 2011 was 111,055. This includes the 6,791 in the public sector, or 6.1% of the total.

      As for elephants…http://www.impact.ie/12/07/06/Elephants-and-where-to-find-them.htm

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    • Reg 24/09/12 #

      I think it’s a case of some they do and some they don’t.

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    • IBob, most allowances ARE taxable. You are possibly confusing them with expenses.

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    • “An extra 185 public servants are earning in excess of €150,000 per annum since the start of the year, despite the crackdown on public service pay by the Government.

      Figures published by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform show a total of 2,721 public servants enjoyed salaries of between €150,000 and €200,000 in February. They account for almost 1% of all staff in the public service. ”

      Impact need to get their facts straight, and also realize that they’re supposed to a trade union not a fat cat union.

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    • @censored;

      I do indeed have my facts straight, and I’m not disputing yours (both come from the same source essentially).

      I only posted the information as the Minister’s own comments (quoted in the article) put the number of public servants on +100k at 7,000. In addition, I only wished to illustrate how those numbers have changed in the last 12 months (because I think anyone reading or commenting here would find that to be of interest) and to set it in the context of the total numbers in all sectors on higher earnings. As the one conversation nobody appears willing to have is one about taxing higher earners (as per my link to the IMPACT blog).

      As for obese felines, I’ve yet to meet one. As for anonymous internet posters…I’ve had my share.

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    • censored 24/09/12 #

      We’re in agreement about the higher earners. These figures tell an interesting story.

      I don’t trust any of the unions any more, just another version of FF/FG/Labor and out for all they can get as far as I can tell. As for anonymous posters, what’s your concern? Do you want us all to have a DNA test before posting?

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    • iBob101 24/09/12 #

      @brendan: I’m happy to agree with you if you can point me in the direction of any back-up or confirmation of that.

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  • There are Plenty of places were during the day civilian staff outnumber Gards , nurses, firemen , scratching there arses playing solitaire , this is a fact

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  • Well done Brian. At last somebody with common sense. Reverse benchmarking ASAP. Reduce TDs salaries and pensions and then address the salaries of the overpaid trade union executives. Any trade unionist that encourage strikes in this day and age should be censored! Unions should be fined if they force decent workers to go on strike

    Reply

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