Commercial properties are valued largely on the rental income. So accepting a much lower rent would mean reducing the property value in Nama’s books, thereby affecting their balance sheet. Keep the rent at €30k, even though they’re not getting it and they can keep the property value up. Ridiculous accounting exercise, but an unfortunate fact of life.

#IBRC not Nama

This carry on should not be allowed , time the government stepped in and put a stop to this madness , if a company is genuinely make an effort , common sense should prevail .

Another scandalous and totally unnecessary act by Anglo/IBRC.

It is sickening to think that all of this could have been avoided, our country would be better off to the tune of billions and there would be thousands more people working if Anglo/Gov had not refused an offer from the Quinn family to pay the State 2.8 billion. Thanks to the expensive PR campaign that Anglo ran at our expense, some people still do not realize this fact but the truth will emerge and the people of Ireland will realize that this was the biggest and most expensive scam an Irish Government has ever facilitated.

Culchies the country over are in mourning. There’s a lot of students who have stories beginning with ‘remember that night in Quinns…. Shift… Coppers…’

What’s it got to do with the government? Do you expect them to intervene in contract disputes? This is a commercial matter, nothing else.

If I was renting a house off you could I unilaterally halve the rent because I can’t afford it and expect the government to step in and protect you from me throwing me out?

If I was your employer could I unilaterally halve your salary because I can’t afford it and expect the government to step in and stop you from telling me where to stick my job?

Pubs close and pubs open. The natural cycle of business will continue. The drinkers of Quinn’s won’t

What’s it got to do with the government? Do you expect them to intervene in contract disputes? This is a commercial matter, nothing else.

If I was renting a house off you could I unilaterally halve the rent because I can’t afford it and expect the government to step in and protect you from me throwing me out?

If I was your employer could I unilaterally halve your salary because I can’t afford it and expect the government to step in and stop you from telling me where to stick my job?

Pubs close and pubs open. The natural cycle of business will continue. The drinkers of Quinn’s won’t suddenly go off the gargle. They’ll drink up/down the road somewhere and sustain further jobs in other establishments.

Well said

Rónán – course it has something to do with govt. IBRC are a state entity – u are aware of that ? The analogies u draw between this case and ‘halving rent to landlord’ and ‘halving salary’ are disingenuous and not comparable as the incidents/examples u mention are purely private matters, whereas IBRC is supposed to be acting for the benefit of the state. Quinn’s will open again, no doubt under the control of some mercenary vulture – a practice that is increasingly prevalent.

I think their whole dispute was the fact that they were being ripped off with their rent. They apparently brought in an independent estate agent who said that the going rent for a premises of that size in that area was no more than €15,000 a month but the IBRC refused to recognise that. I understand that people have to pay what they owe and can’t dictate what rent they pay but when somebody is willing to make an agreement to pay their debts and it is ignored its a bit out of order in my opinion. I think there may be more to this story than meets the eye!!

Ronan, if you read my response under first comment, you will realize exactly what it is to do with the Government. They facilitated the Anglo strategy on Quinn which is going to cost us billions of euros and thousands of jobs. FACT.

@Gearóid,

In this context, I don’t care about Quinn, I don’t care about which bank it is, I don’t care about the government. This is a commercial contract. The precedent is too dangerous for the government to interfere in the commercial contract.

Also, as you say, the anglo fiasco is costing billions. Do you really want to hand over 15k in margin to a publican against those interests?

@Neil,

My analogies are not disingenuous. My salary is a contract, my company cannot cut my salary without me signing a new one. My rent is a contract, I cannot cut my rent in half without my landlord agreeing and signing a new lease. Ignoring contract law would undermine every business in the state, and make the terms and conditions not enforceable.

The ‘mercenary vulture’ that reopens Quinn’s will most likely be someone running it just to keep a business running, instead of someone that will whinge off blaming ‘de banks and de government’ when truly all they are doing is getting out because they’re no longer extracting enough of a profit. Plenty of publicans in this country are currently running extra bars for the banks, appointing a manager and lots of staff to keep the rent roll coming in, and the operation in the black. The only person that gets cut out here is the guy that quit because he wasn’t making the buckets of money he did in the boom.

He probably had an upward only rent review contract, so when the estate agent was saying that the going rate was 15k he can’t challenge his 30k in his rent review. The government said they were going to abolish UOR reviews when they came to power but reneged when they got in. Lots of places have closed due to the contracts which you mentioned. If it was not a UOR he could have reduced his rent at review with intervention from a government agency even though it’s a commercial premises.

The naunce here Ronan is that rent reviews for commercial property are either stay the same or go up. They do not permit a lowering of the rent despite the fact the rent is artificially high for the value of the property. This is in place to safeguard commercial property owners not to create a fair market. That is why you still pay €15 for a bowl of pasta in Dublin despite the value of the property the restaurant is renting has halved. I agree with you pubs come and go but its become increasingly difficult for retail businesses make money when spending is down but their rent remains the same so they can’t reduce their prices.

UORRs are filthy disgusting contracts, but we’re freely signed nonetheless. The government backed out of retrospectively cancelling such arrangements on legal advice, not as a matter of political u-turn.

They are banned going forward, but not retrospectively.

The legal advice received was biased and the contracts could have been changed. Retail excellence ireland REI did a lot of legal and contractual work to get the government to the table and they did back track.
Perhaps because in a lot of cases the government by default is now the landlord but in a lot of other cases the government departments are continuing to pay excessive rents on commercial office space which they could avoid.

Bang on as usual Ronan. We’re becoming a nation of victims. Essentially the guys entered an agreement on rent that their turnover can no longer cover. Unfortunate but that’s how the world works. If its a viable business then someone new will negotiate a new contract and reopen it.

PS- @ Paul… Don’t call me Shirley

actually i’ve never been there

Spent most of my nurse training in there! And I still passed! Great spot, met many fine Irish men in there…..

probably the most well known pub in Ireland

Colm – I disagree. Everyone knows that the Windmill in Limerick is the best known pub in Ireland ….. Don’t they ?

Jesus Neil I thought that was funny and I never heard of the place, looks like not many others have a sense of humor today.

Ah cheers Simon – it was as u say not meant to be taken seriously, 101 thumbs down and 4 thumbs up so far. People must be very wary of any perceived slight on their local boozer. Crikey !!!

plus if we are trying to create jobs in stead of losing them. Ibrc should come to some agreement….banks, they’ll never let you down…..oh hang on a……

it was open last night @ abt 9 when we going by, did it close @ normal pub closing hours?

they should just open it on match day like gills pub…

Aw all those college day memories!!!!!! Used to be a great place to pull st pats chicks!!!!!!!!!

Boycotted?

A lot of the more successful publicans are currently running pubs for the banks, for a fee, on non-profit basis. This keeps the lights on and jobs going.

This will be reopened soon enough, covering the rent roll, with zero margin. The asset will perform and jobs will be maintained.

Boycott because someone tried to unilaterally change a contract? It’s regrettable that IBRC didn’t come to a deal, but they have no legal or moral obligation to, despite what you think.

Very good point Max. Our public interest Director in Anglo/IBRC is Alan Dukes and he has been written to on several occasions and has refused to answer questions that we the shareholders are entitled to have answered.

Gearóid, we are not the ‘shareholders’ any more than we are shareholders in Aer Lingus because of the government stake.

As a citizen in the country that owns IBRC, you can write to your elected TD and request that they ask questions in the Dáil, or arrange a meeting of some committee to get these answers. If you feel your TD isn’t representing you in this manner, then you have the option of voting for someone who will come the next election.

Ronan the point you seem to be missing is that IBRC have now in effect put this decent man and all his staff on the dole while on the other hand paying massive salaries to their own directors. The so called public interest director Alan Dukes is or was a member of the FG party. He is quite happy to sanction all this in the same way as he sanctions the massive PR campaign against the Quinn family. Likewise all the other unfortunate people round this country who he and his bank are chasing for money they don’t have “on behalf of the taxpayer “. We are all being taken for such fools. When are people going to wake and see what a scam this so called bank is? It is costing the taxpayer a fortune and gaining us nothing. The only ones gaining are all the fat cat directors who mostly caused the problem in the first place.

Alison,
Well said. There are some people making an awful lot of money out of this Quinn-Anglo farce. The guise of ‘for the tax-payer’, is just that…a guise. By the time we wake up and realise what is going on, there will be nothing left! Those fat cats are laughing at the whole lot of us as the heads that ‘run’ the country turn a blind eye to the entire charade. Is it Anglo or Fine Gael who are running our country? Farce

15k isn’t very reasonable for the area. The pub will be re opened and rebranded

How do you know it’s reasonable do you know the turn over or do you just think it sounds about right ?

How do you know it’s reasonable ? Do you know the turnover of the business ? Or do you just think it sounds about right . This guy saw a chance to make more money and is just blaming the banks and the government . I bet he is the one that had saw the benefit of paying less and not his staff or customers

Careful Neil….you’ll have Garry fitzgerald on here threatening to sue you or informing Alan dukes to sue you:-)

Nice one Les, cheers for the heads up. Let them sue I say, bring it on Dukes !!!! The master of compromise they called him back in the 80′s around the time of the Tallaght strategy. What a laugh !!

Neil, good point but the fact is that Anglo is no more interested in recouping money for the taxpayer than the man in the moon. They refused an offer from Quinn to pay 2.8 billion in favour of a strategy that will cost us billions and Noonan and CO. are standing idly by just as he failed to get the Anglo fat cats to take a cut in their scandalous salaries.

me dad worked in goodalls for years and me granda drank in the fluter…great pub…even if you needed a weapon going in.

Frank and billy?

Eh, a lot of non-Dubs go to Roddy Bolands which is quite a distance from Corke Park.

Plenty of other bars in drumcondra: http://www.jar.ie/#!search/drumcondra

The reason culchies go there is because it’s beside the stadium…limited time with train timetables…also cos few dubs go there!!

Jackeen sssshhhhhhhhhhhhh

…. and maybe the Dubs might make it to the match before throw in !!!!