Aim this question at Michael lowry and find out

what I would like to see is accountability for their actions. what has happened to the politicians who got us into this dept, nothing.

We need a political system that is totally transparent and accountable (and accountable retrospectively) until that time politicians and entire parties can and will continue to behave in the unethical and immoral fashion that they always have.

Its’s wondersul that we are discussing this topic. However, little will change. If we want change, it must be initated by the people\voter. However, the majority of the voters are afraid of the unkown. In truth, the way politics are run in this country is reminiscent of the Feudal System. It is the Feudal system that required strong loyalty regardles of the wrongs of the king or Vassal.

Our jobs as serfs and peasants is to work hard for the betterment of the vassal and the king.

What has changed?

Just consider the fact that you’ll get more people on a march opposing a tax to ensure clean drinking water than you will to reform the political system. We just don’t do long term. As Colm McCarthy said, the Irish assume that somewhere there is someone wise making all the grown up decisions so that we don’t have to. I have met people who voted for a Fianna Fail candidate (“He’s very good for the local area”) who were then livid that FF won the election! Even in our constituencies we vote for the local grafter and assume that some other constituency will vote for the serious leader. When the Bundestag starts reviewing our budget we get annoyed because the Germans have a proper parliament that actually holds the government to account. It never occurs to us to ask why the Dail does not do the same?

It would be easier to get kicked out of jail ! We are a nation of co-dependent insecure people . We rant and rave about political issues everyday but we are petrified of change ! The only change that will happen is that which is forced upon us . Perhaps we should consider giving the reins to Angela M just for a year …..

The problem with wanting a new party is that nobody can agree what is is for and against. Someone said to me recently “It’s for the ordinary people”. I asked who the ordinary people were? The answer was: “You know, teachers, nurses, civil servants, you know, the ordinary people.” The only party that seriously tried to change the political system in the last ten years were the Greens, and we wiped them out whilst keeping 20 Fianna Fail TDs. Truth is, the Irish people are for the most party content to politics as is.

This article just made me realise it’s nearly 8 years since FF broke this country. Nothing has been done about this. FG/L are hoping everybody forgets.The Irish media are doing their best to convince everybody to forget. Let’s not forget! If we want change all we have to do is vote change, at the next election.Demand better politicians, by not voting for those that have been such a sorry disappointment to us all for so very long. Never forgive and never forget political corruption/croynism and the damage it has dove to everybody here. We will reap what we sow.

The reason FF’s support is rising again is down to FG/ Labour proving to be every bit as incompetent as they were. The only difference being that despite FF’s record of corruption an downright criminality, they didn’t completely disregard the less well off. Whereas this crowd in power now have shown nothing but contempt for the ordinary person, who is barely keeping his or her head above water.

How bad…? After watching Scannal on TV last night about the killers of Jerry McCabe and the support they got from Ferris, Adams etc….clearly there is no depth too low to be kicked out of politics.

the biggest rise in any partys support/ popularity is sinn fein. they were 9% in the last general and 21% in the latest milward brown poll. thats well over double the support. FACT. ff polled 19% in the general and are 23% at the moment. thats not even a 50% increase. FACT. this is a media led renewl of ff because of the fear of SINN FEIN.

There are very few major scandals over the last 40 years in Irish politics, finance or society that do not in someway lead back to a FF Minister.

Why would anyone join a party that has such a record of corruption and criminality?. Why would anyone vote for a party that repeatedly destroys the economy to enrich its own members?

The only reason Fianna Fáil,s support is up is because the electorate want to punish the coalition for their broken promises in the march 2011 election. If there was an election in the morning that support would dissipate quicker than snow of a winter’s ditch.

The simple fact of the matter is that the Irish people will vote for whoever offers them the best deal irrespective of whether they can deliver it or not. We have shown time and again that we are easily bought and will turn to the simple populist message whenever we can. We are still doing it even today. Nothing has been learned from the past few years, just as nothing was learnt from the last recession in the 80s or the one in the 70s.

Currently Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein are doing well in the polls because they are in opposition so they can do exactly what Fine Gael and Labour did during the FF/Green government. They can promise us the sun, the moon and the stars because they don’t have to back that up. But you can be sure that if we got an FF/SF government after the next election within a year or two they would be as unpopular as FG/L are at the moment and we’d be turning back to them again because they would be shouting the populist message. This is especially true in a time of recession. Nobody wants to hear bad news. We want to be told that there is a simple way out of the mess when the reality is that there isn’t.

Its easy to pretend that politicians are some alien breed that bear no relationship to us but its not true. We get the politicians we deserve because we are the ones who put them there time and again and again. It is for this reason that I don’t think the concept of Direct Democracy would work in Ireland. Its a laudable ambition but the fact is that if it was reality here we would just vote for the people who shout the simplest, loudest message.

Leaving the specifics of this government or the last one, there are times when governments are forced to make difficult and unpopular decisions. That will never happen in an Ireland based on the direct democracy system. Let’s imagine some future time when global economic circumstances went bad again and it was necessary to raise tax or cut spending in order to balance a budget and protect the economy. Does anybody reasonably think that the Irish public would every directly vote for this? No we wouldn’t. We’d just simply vote it down and then find somebody to blame when our ecomony came crashing down.

Lets make a list of what will not get you knocked out of politics, at the end anything left will get you knocked out of politics.

Tax evasion? No.
Drunk Driving? No.
Cheating expenses? No.
Corruption? No. Well maybe but those convicted were retired not sitting.

Anymore?

I think Adshead is right when she says that a lot FF core supporters are returning to what they know. if you look at the election numbers for the past 4 general elections you can see that FF went from having over 700k first preference votes in general election in both the 1997 and 2002 general elections to having over 850k first preference votes in 2007 before their massive collapse in 2011.
Despite their vast unpopularity they still managed to get over 380k first preference vote last time out and these people clearly represent what one could only term as hard core FF supporters because if despite all the wrong FF did they were still willing to vote form them then they will never ever change their vote FULL STOP. One can probably consider that from the 1997/2002 election results that another roughly 300k people on top of this hard core group are generally FF voters but could not bring themselves to vote for them last time out voting instead for the nearest option in FG or others. Finally from the high of 2007 one can approximate that around 150k of those votes were swing votes based on their populist policies at the time.

Please have a look at directdemocracy.ie. Its way past time for change here.The people of switzerland stopped the bankers getting bonuses the other day,just by signatures.We need a new political service,accountable to the people,and thats directdemocracy.ie.

Politicians & bankers…both shown to be responsible for the bankruptcy & terrible state of the country,
amazingly both of them still taking in salaries at levels that most people can only dream about…
extraordinary situation..all being paid by ordinary taxpayers who can ill afford food, fuel, child minding etc..

How badly does one have to behave to be knocked out of politics?

Answer : You have to be honest and have integrity.

One big problem is that about one third of people don’t vote. So, the other third vote for the party that gets into power and the other third for the opposition. If you can tap into the third that don’t vote then you would be on to something. FFs comeback and the SF/IRA rise shows a serious need for a new party.

there is also the fact that Labour and Fianna gael have done so much damage that it is easy not to shift hate and blame onto them and forgive Fianna Fail. And it also helps Fianna Fail that the usual suspects we grew to hate who are now gone make it easier to say out of sight out of mind. maybe their followers believe its a new start with new faces. I don’t know anymore. I give up expecting change in Ireland. We just are incapable of real change. maybe when the politicians alive now are all dead change might come. Who knows. I wouldn’t hold my breath for any of the myriad alternatives out there. You have only to go on Facebook too the options but none of them seem to be getting organised or getting their act together to present a real alternative people can believe in. If so where are they on the public stage. If alternative political options do not become widely seen or available (facebook is not public enough thousands of people never even look at it) then people are going to fall back on the old reliables of Fianna Fail Fianna Gael Labour Sinn Fein Independents etc etc

With FF out of power, their ability to reward and therefore retain their supporters will be greatly diminished. Those supporters are hanging on in the expectation that they’ll get back into government at te next election (as they’ve always done before) with the gravy train resuming. Another term in opposition will finish them.

Good article.Psyche analysis.No mention thou of FFers voters age.>55. Ire a different place now corruption/cronyism won’t work.We have shaken off shackles Church that is closely aligned and twinned with

FF are back because only lunatics consider the ULA and SF to be a real alternative to the Government.

I’m pretty sure that it was Bruce Arnold who coined the word “GUBU”. All the references to the Cruiser seem to come from the same Wikipedia virus. He was 3 years out of the Seanad by the time the McArthur scandal broke.

action speaks louder than words