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Dublin: 18 °C Wednesday 19 June, 2013

Column: ‘I did not tell people about my termination as I did not want to be judged’

A reader shares her traumatic experience of travelling to the UK for an abortion.

Image: Eamonn Farrell/Photocall Ireland

After seeing a piece on the legalities of abortion in Ireland on TheJournal.ie last month, a reader got in touch with us as she wanted to share her experience of having to travel to the UK for a termination. With the media and political focus back on the issue, the ordeal had started to play on her mind again. She hoped by writing down her thoughts, she could help herself – and other women. This is her story, in her words.

ALMOST FOUR YEARS ago I became pregnant, and after an extreme amount of soul searching and personal turmoil, I decided to have a termination.

The person who was the father was a chronic alcoholic; he was also emotionally manipulative, juvenile and had serious mental health issues.

In short, I did not wish to have a child with such a person; I did not feel it was right to bring a child into an already very unhealthy situation. When I had made the decision, I was referred to a family planning clinic, where a nurse tried to convince me how wonderful it would be when I held my baby in my arms. Difficult as it was, I was not deterred from my decision, and subsequently went to the Marie Stopes clinic, who made all the arrangements. They warned me that there may be protesters outside the abortion clinic, and to be prepared for some abuse.

I travelled to England on the appointed date, accompanied by the father, who had made a huge fuss about coming with me. The clinic was spotless and there were no protesters, and the procedure was not a long one. But it was extremely traumatic. I opted for no anaesthetic, as to have one meant a couple of hours stay as opposed to 30 minutes without. Consequently, I was in a lot of pain and then had to wait eight hours before the flight home.

These were passed mostly in a café bar, where I saw several other Irish women and girls who had been in the clinic. The father proceeded to get extremely drunk and abusive and when we left (after several hours of tolerance from the barman), he tried to start fights in the street. I was becoming quite ill and was very relieved to get to the airport, where I made him have some coffee, as I was afraid we would not be allowed on the plane.

We got the flight, all the while him telling me what a bad person I was, that it was against God, and so on. I am not religious, and so didn’t care about that angle of insult, but I was very upset that he was backtracking on what we had agreed on.

At home about a week later, I got up one morning and fell in the bathroom. I had been in constant pain but this was now agony. I was bleeding heavily and knew something was wrong. I went to my GP and was told I had a severe infection. I was put on four very strong antibiotics and told to rest.

My GP told me that this happens a lot after terminations, as there could be no follow up care, with the procedure being in a different country.

The weeks that followed were awful: I was in agony, very weak and sick, and also had to deal with a lot of abuse from the father, who would call and drunkenly rant that the abortion was “the worst thing ever to happen to him”, and that I had “killed our baby”.

I dealt with that as best I could. I did not tell very many people about the termination as I did not want to be judged – people have very strong opinions on this topic and I wanted to get through it myself, without gossip.

In closing, I would like to say this: termination is a very difficult and traumatic experience.

I did not take the decision lightly but I know in the end that I did the right thing for myself.

The fact that I became so ill after it was a shock. It made it much harder to cope and it is a disgrace that women have to leave their own country to have this procedure – and possibly become ill with no aftercare.

Regardless of how anyone feels about abortion, women should have a choice, and that choice should be echoed in government policy. This is not a religious issue. It is a human issue. And no religious organisation comprised of celibate men should be allowed to tell us what to do with our bodies.

Mine was a personal choice. I did not want to be bound to an abusive drunk, nor have a child in that situation. I am not forcing my opinion on anyone, but that was my experience and I wanted to share it as abortion is not a black and white issue. I will, no doubt, be judged for this piece but it has helped me to write it and I hope that it helps other women.

TheJournal.ie knows the identity of the author but she wishes to remain anonymous for personal reasons.

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Comments (84 Comments)

  • Firstly let me declare I am mostly anti abortion but haven’t fully made my mind up about it. I did vote yes in the ref all those years ago but what sticks out in this story is the writer chooses to spend her life with an abusive and dysfunctional partner. Get out of there.

    Reply
  • Funny how you call her selfish and not the father… I think that says it all.

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  • I cannot understand how anybody could go through this amount of mantal, physical and emotional pain.
    ‘use abortions as a birth controll’ get real here. This decision is one that will stay with a woman for the rest of her life. I couldn’t imagine how hard it is but I would never stand in anybodys way of doing what is best for them.
    & how do you feel about birth controll, by the way???
    And another thing, If what your saying is true & there are women out there who go for abortions willy nilly, what kind of life would their unborn children have if she were forced to have them? I mean, if life is not worth a pinch of salt to these women how do you know they wouldn’t just sell their kids into the sextrade to pay for their crystal meth addiction????

    Reply
    • There are women out there who do use it as birth control, or having a baby is inconvenient for them. Don’t waste anymore time trying to convince yourself otherwise.
      It is the woman’s body, but it is also the unborn child’s body and there is a lot of debate around how late in the pregnancy as termination is allowed- it’s not a black and white issue.

      Allowing a woman to use abortion as birth control is not a good idea. You hypothesise about these women having no respect for life; is allowing them to have abortions at will, really a good solution for them or for their numerous unborn children?

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    • I think a woman should be able to have an abortion without having to explain or justify it to anyone. It’s her choice, whatever the reason. The man and fetus don’t get a say. And don’t worry Samantha, it’s impossible to get abortions “willy nilly”. I drink cups of tea willy nilly. If the only way I could get a cuppa was to go to England in secret I’d have to seriously consider whether I really needed it or not.

      Reply
    • Aoife 11/05/12 #

      Liam, this is the second time you’ve claimed that women use abortion as birth control without providing any evidence. Back your statements up, or stop making them.

      Reply
  • To the author – thank you for sharing. I think it is through the voices of women like you, telling their own story, that people will start to see this as a human rights issue on the rights of women. It’s one thing to listen to the celibate men telling us it’s wrong, but quite another to hear real stories from real people reflecting the daily reality of Irish women – any civilised society would stop and listen and then do something about it. As you’ve described, this is no way to treat women.

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  • Caitlin Moran writes in her book about her abortion experiemce in a clinic in Essex. She said there was an Irish girl there who had just come out after her. She remarked that she had to get the bus to London, the coach to Holyhead and the ferry back home. She also wondered if the judges or decision makers could see her before she set off for her journey, would they be more inclined to feel for women getting abortions and make the necessary changes to the system. As an Irish woman living in England, I feel ashamed that women can’t get the service they need at home. Having to explain to my English friends about the abortion ban is pretty embarrassing….a service that can be provided for free by the NHS might actually bankrupt a woman from Ireland if they could only scape the money for the journey. Thanks for this article, the stories of many women who left Ireland for abortions needs to be told.

    Reply
  • Saddened by the lack of basic empathy towards the writer shown in some comments. When it comes down to the old SPUC arguments vis ‘how many little baby souls can dance on the head of a pin?’ I just despair. Surely the damn point is that NO WOMAN should have to suffer such an appalling trial just to maintain autonomy over HER life and HER body. A medically valid procedure is available on our priest-ridden (double-entendre intentional) doorstep yet we prevaricate over whether a collection of cells has consciousness! Perhaps they do – and all the starving/suffering children already born. If the logical extension argument of the “Pro-Lifers” is to be taken down the road of euthanasia then let them have it – and they can then fight for the protection of ALL life.
    Obviously. I’m pro-choice out of sincere consideration. I respect anyone who chooses against a termination for whatever reason – but their choices have no relevance to others save to inform, but not coerce. For what it’s worth I hope the writer can get on with her life – she has shown immense courage in escaping an intolerable situation.

    Reply
  • Yeah,your right. She should’ve popped the little guy out into a world of likely abuse surrounded by a drunken father and a possibly scared mother. That would have been much better than being aborted before it was an actual baby!

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  • I am always amazed at the hindsight idiots.

    ‘”Why did you have sex if you didn’t want to get pregnant?” seems to be their position.

    No woman should be made to carry a baby she doesn’t want, even if that baby was a result of reckless and stupid sex. It’s her body. Her machine.

    Judith Jarvis Thomson: http://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm

    Reply
    • These people never seem to ask why did the father have sex if he didn’t want to be a father? 99% of people will have sex at some point in their lives, it is a basic human mode to connect and socialise with others, have fun, learn how to love, and lots of other purposes we social beings can think of. It is a normal thing (it turns out) for both women and men to be keen on the idea of having sex without in any way wanting to become parents (or, parents again!).

      Wonderfully, we now have this technology, called contraception, which makes it possible.

      Contraception technology is a brand-spanking new invention, while abortion is very, very old, possibly as old as humans. Women have always shared knowledge of this plant, that technique, the other dangerous practice which, if you are really, really determined will, at a terrible risk, clear a pregnancy from your body. Safe modern abortions, which still carry some risks (like the infection referred to above), but which are rarely fatal in a way that both childbirth and abortion could so often be in the past, is also a new invention.

      Prior to my grandmother’s time, many of my female ancestors died during their fertile years, often, coincidentally, within a month or so of giving birth.

      I, for one, am intensely grateful for both contraceptive and safe medical abortion technology, and the fact that they have enormously reduced the risk of [remature death for me, my children and grandchildren. The fact that sex often led to premature female deaths never deterred men in the past from enjoying such risky behaviour. Now that the risks are so much reduced by modern, wonderful, technology, why ever should women NOT enjoy sex, companionship, pleasure and all such things with no thought of pregnancy?

      Reply
  • Ciara 11/05/12 #

    Thank you to the author of this piece for sharing your story, and to the journal for publishing it. If you’re reading this, I hope you got out of the abusive relationship and are ok now, four years later.

    Best wishes.

    Reply
  • For a start the notion of soul is not anything a ascribe to. I am talking factually a foetus cannot survive outside the womb until around 24 weeks and therefore is wholey dependant on its survival and becoming a baby omits mother who therefore has the right to make the decision what to do in this situation. You are so certain of your convictions you hide behind a mom de plume and remain faceless and genderless. It is spineless to judge others in painful situations but refuse to stand by your convictions

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    • Predictive text it should read on its mother not omits mother

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    • I mean “Soul” as in consciousness.

      I’m not certain of my convictions. I cannot say with conviction that a feotus at 20 weeks, or 40 weeks, or a second after birth, or a 2 day old baby has consciousness. It’s you who is convinced that a 20 week old feotus doesn’t have consciousness. Or maybe I misunderstand, and you think it does have consciousness but can still be destroyed because it is dependent on the mother…

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    • If you’re not convinced of when it has consciousness, why don’t you let women decide for themselves what they’re comfortable with?

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  • A lot of the comments here are sanctimonious, patriarchal, misogynistic, pro-life crap. Note the smug, tut tut tone of the first comment. Abortion does not need to be a traumatic, scarifying experience (though that seems to be what some of these pro-life sadists revel in).

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  • Saint Ruth you non de plume says everything you obviously believe you deserve to judge others because you above all us mere mortals with you saintliness and direct line to god. I believe it is compassionate and selfless to save a child from a life of pain. To many people only think of their need to be parents over what life that child will have. I also believe that a foetus does not become a baby until it is viable outside the womb. As a single mother myself who made my own choice to have my baby I believe in a woman’s right in these difficult situations to make their own decisions no one is asking a saint like you to terminate. I hope you or your loved ones never have to face these decisions

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    • My non de plume does say everything, but not what you think:

      “Charles Chalmont Marquis of St Ruth (circa 1650 – 12 July 1691) was a French general. Early in his military career, he fought against Protestants in France. Later, he fought in Ireland on the Jacobite side in the Williamite wars, where he was killed at the Battle of Aughrim.”

      Do you believe it is compassionate and selfless to save a child from a life of pain by killing them?
      That a second before birth it is a bunch of cells and a second later is a person?
      Do you believe that the “soul” is magically infused in the baby when it goes through the birth canal?

      Reply
  • 100 percent behind women who have abortions when they aren’t in a position to raise k child. those against are goin no church law which doesn’t enforce other biblical laws like eating shrimp and religions that openly support wars regardless

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    • I am at a loss how is it so many apparently compassionate people when faced with a story like this lose all compassion. This woman has beared her soul and is met with judgement and derision. She is in an abusive relationship and has had to make the difficult decision to travel the lonely journey to have a termination. Unfortunately too many children are born in these destructive situations and the children suffer for a lifetime. As a result of having to travel she suffered a dangerous infection which could have serious complications which would not have arisen if she could have had a termination is this country . Instead of listening to experiences with an open mind people rush to judge her. Walk a mile in her shoes before you judge particularly the men who will never face her situation

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    • I think she did the right thing for her and the foetus for that point in her life. It’s a crap situation to be in and I feel for anyone who gets faced with that decision. It is scary,upsetting and anyone who takes it lightly shouldn’t have children anyway. I know a few who have had to do this and they don’t regret their decision but they always regret having had to make the decision and be in such a terrible situation.
      Abortion clinics are not butcher shops,as some ‘pro-lifers’ will make them out to be. They are clean,caring atmospheres where cases are dealt with by professionals who really do look after these women. You don’t just walk in,hand over a wad of sweaty money and lie down while they tear away!!! There’s doctors to see and people to talk to before you have this procedure done. They genuinely care about the health and well being of each woman.

      Reply
    • Orla, where’s your compassion for the baby?

      Do children born into destructive situations deserve to die?

      Reply
  • While the church don’t pass laws – they still seem to have a hold and influence on way too many people in this country.

    It’s ironic how the narrow minded pro lifers (yes even in the case of medical necessity or danger to the mother’s life, believe it’s ‘evil’!) – many of whom seem to be celibate men (from my experience of them in NUI Maynooth anyway) don’t seem to care much about the rights of the child AFTER they’re born. Particularly if that child they seemingly valued enough to protest for, turns out to be gay. Then they don’t really give a crap about their rights. Ironic.

    I’d also like to share this quote from the Media student’s book..

    ‘Anti-choice’ campaigners often use ultra-sound images of a foetus in a globe-like womb. These work to marginalise the pregnant woman’s discourse: no such single, vivid, image could be used to sum up the variety of painful reasons for which she might have to seek an abortion. For some, the globe-like image may suggest a ‘natural’ or even ‘divine’ inevitability that any pregnancy should go ahead, whatever the circumstances, or whoever the father.

    I don’t think anyone takes abortion lightly and only an idiot would view such a traumatic, expensive experience as a form of contraception. So those points are out. The woman who wrote this is extremely brave for sharing her story. I wonder if some people commenting here even read it before they did so. People need to share their stories so a true interpretation of the reality of the the reasons why women are faced with this decision become clear. Anyone with half a brain knows it’s more than “reckless sex and hopping on a boat to get rid of it in a completely callous manner.

    Each situation is individual. No one is going to come forward and say they sought an abortion because they became pregnant after being raped or abused if there are people here who are going to judge that person NO MATTER WHAT their reason. Is anyone putting themselves in these girls and women’s shoes?! We don’t have the right to judge when we never know the whole story, and these individuals deserve the right to choose. ESPECIALLY if the pregnancy will cause them psychological distress or bodily harm. Women deserve the choice. Just because it’s there doesn’t mean everyone will take it as half the idiotic Irish population seem to fear. Right now the choice isn’t there but just because it’s banned in Ireland doesn’t mean it’s not happening and the Irish population can’t keep their heads buried in the sand forever.

    Reply
  • The author is incredibly brave to write this piece and sharing her story, I wish her all the best.

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  • “ Even if we put aside the question of fetal personhood and assume that a fetus should have the same rights as a born human being, giving that fetus the right to use another person’s body for its surivval would give it privileges that born people do not have. In no other case is a person legally compelled to use their body and their internal organs to sustain another’s life. We do not require parents to donate kidneys or even blood to their children, and we do not require anyone to be a good Samaritan and risk their life or health for another. It is difficult to imagine a case in which we would legally require a father to keep his child physically attached to his body, using his organs for survival, physically impairing him, and requiring him to miss work and possibly undergo surgery, for nearly ten months.
    It would be difficult to make the case that the child (or full-grown adult) has a right to use their father’s body for survival. Yet this is exactly what opponents of abortion rights argue— except the body in question is female”

    - Jill Filipovic

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  • Thanks for writing this piece. All these stories are pieces of the puzzle and it’s fantastic for them to be told. In the end, so long as we withhold the power to choose from each and every woman, we, as a society are infantilising women and alienating them from their own bodies. It’s time to stop.

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  • I have huge sympathy for this woman. I hope she has recovered from the illness she suffered followed her abortion and in particular I hope she managed to get out of this abusive relationship. No-one should have to put up with such treatment at any time.

    In terms of the issue of abortion, I feel that something major is being overlooked in a lot of these discussions. We are told that the journey to the UK is traumatic – but no-one ever seems to question whether that trauma could be caused by the abortion procedure itself.

    Without wanting to get too involved in this woman’s personal trauma, she tells us that the clinic was spotless, the people were very nice, and there were no protestors outside. Yet the entire event was still extremely traumatic. Surely if all other things were equal, there is a strong possibility that abortion is traumatic in itself, regardless of where it takes place? Certainly, this viewpoint is supported by the testimonies of the women in WomenHurt.ie who recently launched a billboard campaign to try and spread awareness of the trauma suffered by many women in the aftermath of abortion.

    I’m also a bit surprised that a GP would make a statement that would lead any woman to think she might be refused treatment. We know that women receive whatever treatment they need in this country. That doesn’t change just because she has an abortion. But shouldn’t the abortion clinic take some interest in the woman once they have carried out the procedure? Don’t they take any responsibility for ensuring that they stay in touch with her, make sure she is alright? Obviously not.

    Finally, I agree with the writer when she says that this is a human rights issue, and not a religious one – she is entirely right because the issue of abortion affects everyone in society regardless of creed. I’m not sure why she then goes on to talk about “celibate men” being allowed to tell women what to do with their body. If this is a reference to the Catholic Church, it doesn’t really make sense because the Church doesn’t pass laws, the democratically elected government do. Thanks to our Constitution, the Irish people will have the final say on abortion which is only right given that it is a sensitive and complex issue which affects so many lives.

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  • I just want to say it is a disgrace that it is ILLEGAL to terminate – for gods sake and also BY THE CHURCH or led by it. I can relate to the article and I just want to say it is a womans choice in the end and I hope that it will be soon changed!!!!

    Reply
  • No, they would be the women who accepted the claim that abortion was a choice for the better but then discovered that they experienced guilt, shame, feelings of helplessness and devastation in the aftermath.

    To add insult to injury, they then discovered that abortion advocates – like yourself – didn’t want to hear about the fact that some women didn’t feel relief after their abortion, but different, less appealing emotions.

    Your blog post is deeply disrespectful to those women and to any woman who can’t fit in with the stereotype of a woman who’s had an abortion and has nothing bad to say about it. Would you prefer they suffered in silence?

    And yes, it’s true that many of these women receive the compassion and forgiveness that they feel they need through a relationship with God. Who are we to tell them otherwise?

    To mock them in the way you have is deeply unkind.

    Reply
    • It’s not actually my blog post, just one I read and found interesting. And I’m not an “abortion advocate”.

      I entirely respect and sympathise with people who had an abortion and regretted it, much as I sympathise with people who entered into a relationship that turned out to be abusive, or took a job that made them ill with stress – without thinking that all relationships are bad for people, or all jobs are traumatic. I have less respect for a seemingly veeeery well-funded and connected organization plastering the city with posters dripping with faux-concern, obviously aimed at women considering abortion rather than/as well as their ostensible target of “other hurt women who want fellowship”, and hyping the “abortion psychologically damages women” agenda (which is far from unheard, and you know it).

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    • Cora, you are totally misrepresenting comments on this sight. No one has said they don’t feel sympathy for women who feel traumatised by their abortion, we said we don’t think it’s a universal experience. I think it’s horrible that you are suggesting that you know better than this woman whether she was traumatised. Stop assuming you can speak for all abortion experiences.

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    • Cora – I read your article on lifenews website earlier. I had a baby who was diagnosed as incompatible with life last year, and guess what, she died just as the drs diagnosed she would. I found your article extremely insulting and lacking any empathy or understanding. In case you haven’t noticed there are loads of bereaved parents like me coming out of the wood work clearly saying we are traumatized by the situation in this country where we either had to wait it out or make the traumatic journey to another country and back without our medical team, families, friends and at considerable inconvenience and cost. We are telling our stories and making it very clear that we who have lived this awful situation want the option of termination in these circumstances. Yes, my dr explained to me that if I developed a life threatening illness, that the hospital ethics board here would convene and that I would be able to have a termination here, that i would not die on her watch, however her hands were tied until such time as I could be confirmed with a life threatening illness. She also explained that due to my dying baby’s condition, the probability that I would get a particular life threatening illness was about 35%. So on top of our grief, we then had the joy of worrying about my health. Now perhaps you feel someone more saintly and holier than I am could carry on in a saintly fashion and offer all that up and somehow think that was all somehow alright. But you weren’t there and i want you to know that I am angry as hell about it, I am traumatized by that experience, that in my home country it was acceptable for me to get really sick, to have the mental torture of carrying a dying baby, the suspended grief, when I knew and people far, far more medically qualified and experienced than you knew I carried a baby with no hope that they could ever live independently. And I am not alone, this happens to Irish families every week.. Stick your hospices where the sun don’t shine lady.

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    • EMD 14/05/12 #

      Well said Diana. So sorry for the loss of your baby.

      Reply
  • This is completely different situation from what the women are campaigning about at the moment in the media, I do back them when the baby has zero chance of survival outside the womb, but I can’t say I agree with terminations when there is nothing wrong and I dont think these two matters should be mixed up. In my opinion there is plenty of people out there who would love to be able to have a child to love and care for, and you always have the option of adoption if it really isnt for you. This is only my opinion and im sorry to all the people that will red thumb it

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    • So you don’t think that it would be traumatising to go through pregnancy and birth and then also give the child up??? Your not understanding the reasons for abortion in a lot of cases. I don’t even know where to start. In some cases it is better to get the abortion,if you haven’t been there you cannot understand

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    • I mean, it’s fine if you advocate for adoption, but I think it’s important to consider how women who place children for adoption are viewed quite negatively in our society, that there are plenty of children in care without good homes so it really is not as if adoption is a magical solution and it’s been shown to be more traumatic to place a child for adoption than have a termination.

      People who advocate for adoption only seem to view the mother as a breeding receptacle.

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    • I love the way people bandy the adoption alternative around as if it was just a matter of hanging around for a few months until the baby pops out and gets handed over, easy peasy, job done, as if it all never happened, and doesn’t involve, say, going through all the months-long physical changes, difficulties, and dangers of pregnancy and childbirth. Oh, and then while a physical and hormonal mess, parting with an actual living baby. Possibly while still in (as in the honest article above) an abusive relationship or other difficult situation that made the pregnancy unwanted in the first place.

      I’m sure it’s the right decision for some people, and fair play to them, but it’s not an easy option, not un-traumatic, and certainly not for everybody.

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  • At an information meeting I was at last week a middle aged women gathered up the courage and painfully described a similar scenario surrounding an abortion story.She was in an abusive relationship and when she became pregnant her husband of the time insisted that she abort the baby,she was beaten black and blue and he practically threw he into the car ”to bring her to England”.The husband said that as his sister in law had had an abortion she should have one too rather than bring another ”mouth to feed into the world”.But this woman had incredible determination and she resisted her husband’s brutal methods.She found people willing to help her and in the face of incredible odds she had a little boy 20 years ago this week.Last week was the first time that she had ever spoke about her experience in public and I was privleged to be there to hear her story of the triumph of the human spirit and Life over brutality and death.Today her grown up son is attending a prestigious university in Dublin and his mom is so proud of her little boy.Life is always better than death for the baby and his or her mom.

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    • Er, you do realize there’s a difference between “woman being forced by abusive partner to have an unwanted abortion” and “woman choosing to have an abortion”, don’t you? I’m sure that woman had a terrible experience, but THAT WAS A WANTED PREGNANCY, at least by the mother.

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    • Would you have seen the story in the article above as “a triumph of the human spirit and Life” if that woman’s abusive partner had forced her to go through with the pregnancy?

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    • It’s wonderful that she was able to make a choice as to what was best for her and be supported. It’s too bad that’s not an option available to the author of this article.

      Unfortunately, your arguement seems to be that some women should be forced, sometimes by an abusive partner, into a decision they did not want, so long as it’s the decision you agree with. Those of us who support legalisation of abortion believe a woman should always be empowered to make the best decision for her.

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    • She wanted to keep the baby and did so. That’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about women who don’t/can’t keep the pregnancy going. Great that she didn’t give in to her abusive boyfriend and left to fulfil her wishes. Doesn’t work for everyone though unfortunately

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    • I am incredibly frustrated by the reluctance of groups like Youth Defence (of which Ray is an active member) to admit the reality that some women want to have abortions and do not feel victimised or traumatised as a result. It is one thing to believe that a foetus is alive (which I don’t agree with, but they’re entitled to their view) – it’s another thing to point blank deny that there is ever any situation in which the rights of the mother and the foetus would conflict and assert that all women feel traumatised as a result of an abortion.

      Just repeating “all women are harmed by abortion” over and over again doesn’t make it true.

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    • Ciara 11/05/12 #

      One woman wanted to be pregnant, the other woman did not. Any other similarities between the stories are co-incidental. I don’t see how this relates to the experience shared in the article.

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  • Unfortunately, it’s cases like this that have become diluted by other women; who use abortions as a birth control.

    Reply
    • So could I have some statistics on these women you speak of Liam?
      Abortion as a contraceptive is always trotted out in these discussions, but I have never seen any evidence to back it up. Frankly it’s insulting and implies that all the responsibility for contraception is on the woman. There’s (at least) 2 people involved, why is it only one of those peoples responsibility?

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    • I back the women 100%..they have to go through alone…

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    • Thank you, Anne. I love this idea that women are flying over to England for their expensive terminations every month. No biggie. He clearly didn’t look at the statistics presented yesterday on the Journal, which stated that a very small minority of women were having more than one termination.

      But I bet you find them the easiest to dislike and if you realised most women have stories like this, that would make it harder to oppose legalisation of abortion.

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    • Thank you Liam, that was INCREDIBLY helpful.

      (Jesus Christ on a big bicycle.)

      Reply
  • Whilst I sympathise with the difficulty of your situation, from the piece I am of the understanding the pregnancy was created of consensual sex. You should have give more consideration about having sex with such a person in the first place. Outside of rape and the mothers life being in danger, abortion in my opinion is immoral when used as a form of conception and is inexcusable, there are consequences to every decision we make, for me it’s got nothing to do with religion, I am not religious either. I don’t and won’t judge you, I don’t have that right, you made a very difficult decision, but that doesn’t mean I agree with that decision.

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    • Please stop trying to have it both ways.
      You say “I don’t and won’t judge you, I don’t have that right” … but that comes just after you did judge her, several times, most strongly when you wrote “outside of rape and the mothers life being in danger, abortion in my opinion is immoral when used as a form of conception and is inexcusable”, and “you should have give more consideration about having sex with such a person in the first place”.
      If that is your idea of being non-judgemental, then I wouldn’t like to be near you when you acknowledge that you are being judgemental.

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    • I love how he’s blaming her for being in what sounds like an abusive relationship. Educate yourself about abusive and controlling relationships before you victim-blame.

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    • I hope you don’t speak for all of the Irish in the USA.

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    • Abortion as a means of conception? I think you have that misunderstood ;)

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    • “I don’t and won’t judge you, I don’t have that right, ”

      Didn’t stop you though, did it? That entire comment was a hate-filled screed of judgement. May God forgive you for it and your mockery of a denial.

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  • JHC! The abortion-rights campaigning of The Journal is relentless! Every other day there’s some soft-focus commentary on the pain endured by women having to cross all the way to Britain of get rid of the child they are carrying. We hear the voices of the women who shout the loudest, we’re not given the stories of those women who have had abortions and been left broken as a result. We certainly do not hear the voices of those baby girls and boys who have been killed by abortion.
    No doubt this will be glowing with red thumbs in no time, but in the rarified air of The Journal Comment Boards it’s good to have some degree of balance, ‘cos we don’t get balance in the articles themselves.

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  • As Nick just said above …” the foetus is not alive” ..must qualify as the most obscurantist illiterate head in the sand comment I have read in ages.A stone is ”not alive” ,a lump of Waterford crystal is ”not alive”, the football that Pele scored his 1000th goal with is ”not alive” but to say that ”the foetus is not alive” must rank as a pure piece of abortion fundamentalism.Come on Nick we parted on good terms after last week’s debate and you had earend my respect if not my agreement.You can do better than ”the foetus is not alive” .At least make some attempt to propose a logical ,coherent and scientifically valid argument for killing an innocent baby.Even the abortionist knows that he is making ”the foetus” (who was alive) into a dead person.

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    • You really thought the point of my arguement was ‘a foetus isn’t alive so abortion is ok’? Not at all what I said, but let’s let other posters judge that. My point was actually that by claiming ‘women and babies both suffer from abortion’, you ignore the fact that sometimes abortion is considered by the woman to be the best thing for her and a decision she’s happy with (like in the article we’re writing about – did you even read her story?) If you believe a foetus is a person with rights (I don’t, but that’s TOTALLY IRRELEVANT for this point actually), then an abortion is not the best thing for them, but that doesn’t mean it’s best for the mother. That was my point.

      I thought it was important to mention that you’re involved in the online forum (are they youth defence because they are young or because they’re ‘defending’ the young? Whatever) is because this organisation repeatedly lies that there is a link between breast cancer and abortion. It’s absolutely disgusting to present young women with that mistaken health information and I personally have trouble taking anyone affiliated with it seriously.

      Sorry if you see pointing out problems in your argument as trolling.

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  • Sorry Nick I will resist my impulse to label your contributions as having Troll like characteristics and go straight to tthe heart of your ad hominum attack about me.You just cannot resist jumping for the absolutely massive assumption that just because I enaged in a quality debate with your good self recently on a Youth Defence facebook forum that I am an active member of Youth Defence.(& what if I was ?) As far as I know YD doesn’t have an official ”active” enrollment policy and furthermore I am actually not qualifed in the first place to be a member as I officially do not qualify as a ”youth” (someone in the their late teens to mid twenties appears to be the common if loose definition of ”youth”) I am older than my mid twenties.But Nick , why do you insist on the ad hominum approach to debate? I will take it as a complement because obviously my comment above shook your limited worldview to the foundations of the paradigm & I will not stoop to the level of ad hominum commentary and the attempt ” to throw sand in the eyes” of the readers.

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  • Without commenting on the rights and wrongs of abortion one thing stood out like a sore thumb after reading this piece. If this guy was such a loser and a waste of space as she claims then what the hell was she doing sleeping with him?

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  • I think maybe people are missing the point here. This woman herself says that abortion is a very difficult and traumatic experience; it’s the abortion itself that has caused this woman the trauma and I’m not sure having it in Ireland would ever improve this experience.
    We should be focusing on offering women different alternatives to abortion rather than fighting for the right to allow them to go through an experience that is so difficult and traumatic that it can never be good for a woman regardless of the country they have it in.
    Whilst this woman does feel there is no aftercare in relation to abortion in this country it does appear that this lady did receive appropriate care once she sought it out.

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    • Well, she said she believes having her abortion in Ireland would have made it better and she doesn’t regret her abortion. Stop telling women what you think they should want and listen to them when they tell you what would make their lives easier.

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    • The abortion is traumatic,but it’s also traumatic finding out you’re pregnant and it’s unwanted. Then the trauma continues with the decision that you face. The journey over adds to it immensely as you feel everyone knows where you are going and why. The clinic itself is actually the least traumatic of the lot as you are surrounded by people in similar situations and nurses that try to help you and are very delicate with your emotional state.

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  • Steve 11/05/12 #

    I wouldn’t tell anyone if I was a robot from the future sent back in time to kill, either.

    Seriously, how ridiculous is the term “termination”?

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  • It always amazes me that people think its perfectly fine to destroy a life that would grow up to be perfectly normal and not feel guilty. I wonder how many of the anti-lifers actually know someone that has gone through with this and seen what it has done to them and how sorry they are they done it? I’m also amazed at the same people here that on one had will condem smoking in a car with a baby but on the other are pefectly happy for a baby to be tortoured and killed.

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    • This woman is just saying she doesn’t regret it, so it kind of blows your theory that everyone who has had an abortion or known someone who had is opposed to legalising abortion.

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    • I never said that but I know know two seperate people (not from the same relationship) who have been there and both regret it, one of them has even been crying on my shoulder a couple of times.
      why dont you answer the rest of what I said do you think its fine to tortour and kill a developing child just because it doesnt suit you instead of nit picking?

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    • I know a few women who have been through this actually. No regrets as it was the best thing at that time,but they certainly didn’t take it with a pinch of salt either. It is difficult,but after weighing up the pros and cons,this was simply the only option that made sense!

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    • I would think it’s obvious: I don’t believe it’s torture and killing. I’m happy to explain that in more depth if you’d like, but I thought the important point to engage in was not your opinion which I disagree with, but the factual inaccuracy that all women regret abortions.

      If you look at this article as well as any research done, that’s blatantly not true. I’m sorry your friends had negative experiences and obviously, they should be able to share those, but a lot more women are grateful they had access to abortion. I think it’s awful that you want to blot out their stories and experiences and claim they don’t matter.

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    • I know several women who have terminated pregnancies for social reasons with no regrets about it whatsoever. Not something they entered into lightly, but they felt it was the right thing for them at the time and still do. I’m sure there are people who regret their abortions, much as people regret all sorts of decisions, but that doesn’t mean that it’s automatically something regrettable.

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    • as u read this womB didn’t terminate the child because she was picking and choosing

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    • In the US many clinics consider an expressed belief that abortion is murder as a contraindication to providing an abortion (and yes, women who believe abortion is murder DO present looking for abortions – often arguing that their own abortion is somehow different). In most cases, these are the women who will suffer adverse mental health consequences bourne of the dissonance between their own beliefs and actions. (The other health scare, re the connection between abortion and breast cancer has been shown to be bogus).

      Obviously, the vast majority of people who support the provision of safe, legal abortions to prevent women from being forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term DO NOT BELIEVE an embryo or a foetus is a baby, or that an abortion is murder. When you see an embryo as a POTENTIAL person, one who does not yet possess consciousness or other attributes of personhood, you do not view abortion in the same light as the killing of a child who has matured to full personhood and been born. This should surprise no one.

      But what IS surprising (to me anyway), is that people who CLAIM that a foetus is a baby, are not consistent in that belief. We do not see them collect every month’s menstrual flow in a loving way, to give it the ceremonious burial it would deserve if it were to contain (as it likely does in the event of unprotected sex during ovulation which does not result in a pregnancy) a fertilised egg. We do not see them lobby for birth and death certificates to be grantedto foetuses lost through miscarriage or abortion. And above all, they do not seek to have doctors report all miscarriages as “suspicious deaths” or put a guard on the ports and airports in the country to apprehend all of the women they suspect of murdering their babies. If they really believed aborting a foetus was exactly the same as murdering a baby, they would want all these women facing a prison sentence, pronto.

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