Let’s not initiate an arms race shall we? The gardai strolling the beat in Ballygobackwards should not, and do not require guns.
The little thugs on Grafton St do not have guns because they can currently get their kicks without them. Arm the gardai, and these thugs have no more illusion of power, of standing up to authority, of bravery. Until they get some guns themselves…

Good article. Not many people defending a Gardas right to their own protection and safety. I wonder why?
Having unarmed Gardai on the whole, hasn’t really kept criminals at bay, has it? What about the unarmed Garda that was shot a few years back near East Wall? Would he have been shot if he himself was armed
I really dont know what the best solution is, armed or unarmed Gardai?
May a new fleet if windowless vans so the Gardai can beat the shit out of more scumbags? I must admit, I like the sound of that!

I think that the day we arm the Garda is when we have lost to the “thugs” – we have highly trained armed Garda response units that are available on a moments call – you cannot compare some of the massive and unique US social and racial problems to a night meeting some druken muppets on Grafton Street on St. Patricks Day !

The Garda seem to have dealt fine with that situation and no doubt many others since then and without having to point a GUN at anyone and threaten to take a persons LIFE !

Yes, lets follow the US model. They have very little gun crime, so its clearly the best way to go.

“I hope these thugs are not armed with a gun or edged weapon.”
This thought that came in to the authors head is the main reason he is so wrong.
What are the chances of a group of revelers on Patricks day in Dublin to be carrying a gun?
Even if you were a criminal you wouldn’t bring it to go on the piss after the parade.
However if you were a law enforcement officer from Florida it would be reasonable fear as guns are so prevalent.
I bet if he asked the surrounded guards if they thought they were about to be shot they would wonder what drugs he was on.
And that is why not having guns is better.
Less people are trigger happy, including security officers.

Why not give them stun guns.Its safer for all.

yes we do have an eru… but what about the normal garda who go’s to a call out and then all of a suddan a weapon is pulled out on him… thats what the story is about,,

Lets compare the rates of violent death for unarmed gardai in ireland vs armed police in america……

yeah, guns definitely make you safer.

what a load of horseshit

This is the second discussion on the Journal concerning the same topic in the recent past. It is pointless in many ways because rank and file uniformed Gardai will never be armed in this country – period. This is for many reasons. Given the example outlined i.e being in possession of a firearm in a public order situation and dealing with drunken louts while outnumbered at the same time is a recipe for disaster in my opinion and highly dangerous. A guard has the added worry of protecting his gun from being taken in addition to his own safety and quelling a volatile situation. Let’s face it this is a more likely scenario than Gardai running into an armed incident. As for drawing a weapon in this situation or shooting a woman with a pot of oil; please. The only benefiting in these situations would be fat cat barristers on huge retainers for all of the incurring tribunals. The Gardai would be criticised from every angle imaginable. There are detectives carrying guns on a daily basis in every major city and most major towns and the heavily armed and trained regional support units operate in each of the Garda regions. Add to this mix the emergency response unit and the fact that some uniformed members can in fact arm themselves in certain situations. Arming regular Gardai would have zero effect on gun crime in Ireland. It would only serve those involved in this type of activity to gear up and to up their game. Gardai are well equipped to deal with any intelligence led armed situations, as for other armed incidents, well they are usually over before the Gardai are even called. It will never happen.

The instant Gardaí start carrying guns they will become legitimate targets in the eyes of the criminals — this is a terrible idea from an American with a typical American attitude (coincidentally, the USA 8th highest rate of gun crime per capita just after such notable places as South Africa, Columbia, Zimbabwe and Belarus).

I think the balance in Ireland is right. McDowell tried to bring in that US vibe back in the 1990s, and that outcome of that was the Abbeylara tragedy. Let’s leave the gun-toters to their own devices, so to speak.

US = 5 homicides per 100,000 people
Ireland = 1.35 homicides per 100,000 people
Such a figure is nothing to be proud of on its own. However, compared to the US Ireland is doing something right? (I feel much safer in Ireland than in the US, and I suspect individual Gardaí feel much safer doing their job than the average police officer in the US does.)

And, do we really want articles like this http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/special/04/shootings/2698952.html
where 65 unarmed people were shot by Harris County police since 1999 (of which 17 died) accounting for 1 in 3 of the victims of police shootings. 1 in 3 shot were unarmed!!! (no guns, no knifes and they were shot)

Of course the author of this article is advocating such numbers, since his choice of action in the described altercation would be for the two Gardaí to point their guns and wave them around like in a cowboy film. Note to self (and I know this might be a little over the top… but one can never be too careful) if you meet Edward Foy in New York or Chicago DO NOT ASK FOR DIRECTIONS.

There was a motorcycle Garda in Clontarf shot in the chest at close range with a sawn-off shotgun a few years ago while responding to a fellow Garda’s car being reported stolen. The Garda was approaching the vehicle when they shot out the window and drove away. The car was not found. Maybe would have been good for him to have been armed also…at least to level the playing field. We are increasingly having to deal with a type of criminal in this country that have absolutely no qualms with killing someone and these “people” see the Garda as a big luminous joke…if not arm our police officers…what’s the plan B…because we need something?

“The difference with having a firearm is that there’s an unwritten respect.” I don’t respect any person who chooses to carry something capable of taking another’s life. Respect and fear are not synonymous. Violence only brings more violence. And this comes from someone originally from the US.

What a load of shit. It’s obvious that if the Garda were armed they’d be shot at a lot more. Nobody here really has the need to shoot at the Garda because they are unarmed.

everybody will remember the bad points’ yes abbeylara was a disaster’ but not all situations would have the same outcome….. its realy stupid to think that the gaurds you expect to protect us on our streets would have to run and hide when some scumbag pulls a gun from his person….. think about that…

To be honest one does not have to look to far to find a news story regarding police abusing their power in the U.S. The police in the U.S. are rude, unhelpful, predatory bullies so I don’t think they are an example to follow. They routinely infringe upon the civil rights of the people they are sworn to protect. They are gangs with badges. In my opinion U.S. police have a lot they could learn from our Garda Síochána. In the U.S. cops pull out weapons when people don’t do what they say, it’s a power trip. They should only use them when their life is danger.

However, delinquent youths and young adults are a problem in Ireland and they certainly don’t respect of fear the gards. Crime is a problem. I DO think we should arm our gards BUT the weapons should not be used unless their life, or another person’s life is danger. Someone running from a shop they just robbed isn’t a life or death situation. None of this “stop or I will shoot” crap.

I also think we need to take a harder line with these punks (you all know who I am talking about) and some old fashion beating would be a good place to start. To be clear to all the moaners I am not advocating violence be used with protestors, drunks… But on those people who purposefully intimate others in the streets. The bullies need a dose of their own medicine.

I am also distrubed by this author, he thinks it is okay to plice others out of his juisdiction? In another country? Who feck does he think he is?

The only effects giving all Gardaí guns will have are that a lot more criminals will decide they need to have guns, and people will have another reason, and a very genuine one, to fear members of an Gardaí Síochána. Fear does NOT equal respect.. something the Irish should understand better than anyone after 800-some-odd years of being forced to live in fear of those who have guns. I, for one, far prefer the current system where only a small group of highly-trained Gardaí are allowed to carry guns. They can be called upon if such incredibly drastic measures are necessary, but they should never become “the norm” !
One more thing to note: This is IRELAND.. not the U.S… let the gobshite war-monger take his ideas and put them where the sun doesn’t shine.

Yes the balance is right I agree with Dave and Aisling.
Intelligence leads the powers to decide if Armed units are required, and every now and then something will happen but every aspect of life throws up some unpredictable situation.
With respect to career criminals, I dont think they want to go out on a killing spree, they want to get the job done, home for tea and all that. They know the consequences if they are caught.
On another side if there is a spate of muggings, should the citizens be armed also, given the response time of guards on a busy Saturday night. If I`m walking the streets and some chap thinks I`m armed maybe he wont approach me and ask for my money….Its all tied up in land and shares anyway, he`d have to wait a few weeks, ;-)
I heard a story once about an Irish Army Officer who stopped a firefight between (dare I say it) the Israelis and Hezbollah with a hurley in his hand.
Possession of a weapon whether a blunt object or a firearm starts the process of thinking how to use it. That is where the danger lies.
Its a funny thought, 4 burly men with the obligatory mustache and sunglasses asking the boys to step away from the Gardai. Did these men think that our Gardai were not capable of doing their job?

saying that the gardai should not be armed is another way of saying that the criminals have more rights than we thaught…. most of them carry fire-arms…

Im sure there are plenty of gardai that are hardworking and care about their job.but i have also seen some who are completely ignorant and value themselves as higher up than other people in society.When I was 15 me and my friends got stopped by two garda in an unmarked car it was the drug squad just looking for our names and addresses(although I never had anything to do with drugs) I didnt have a clue about the existence of unmarked cars or anything so I politely asked could I see his Garda id…..he then started shouting”do I have to go back into the car an get my fucking Id….then when he turned his back and walked away he called me a bitch..my mother and father later went down to the station to complain about this and he didn’t even offer and apology all he said was “I didn’t think she heard me”…..my point is that assholes like this should not be given a gun their already violent and aggressive enough without one.

Interesting that whenever this debate is raised in Ireland, a false dichotomy is posed. Either the Gardai are unarmed, or Ireland becomes a warzone. The result of arming the Gardai is always presented as being wild shootouts and a massive increase in crime, accompanied by the smug assertion that “we don’t want to be like the US”. Yet outside of Britain and Ireland, the only other unarmed police force in the world is New Zealand. Where is the gun-slinging free for all in Germany, Denmark or Australia? Do you recoil in fear from the police in Amsterdam? Are Japanese police routine targets for armed criminals? The preferred Irish solution seems to be, as always, fantasy and make-believe. Pretend that the Gardai are unarmed because only plainclothes officers carry weapons – routinely, by the way – or because cash is escorted to banks by heavily-armed troops!
A firearm is not the pillar on which the respect for a police force depends, it is merely be a tool available to an officer in the last resort and is useless if the officer does not already have the respect of the general population. But to say that it should only be available to specialist units and the Garda on the street must leap on a gun-wielding criminal in a heroic act of self-sacrifice rather than have that tool implies a deep distrust of the Gardai that should be an even greater worry.

Let me get this straight, is he really suggesting a gun was needed to resolve the confrontation with drunken youth ? Let’s give all the garda guns so and let them wave them at people in every possible situation. FFS.

Would love to see all the people saying gardai don’t need firearms do their job for 1 night and ask your opinion after while your cleaning your jocks. I understand its your opinion and its great to have the ability to voice it but its very easy to talk shite on an Internet forum.

Just because a lot of folks here don’t like what Detective Foy has to say does not mean what he said is wrong or that he hasn’t got a point, we all know damn well that Ireland has become a very violent place in recent years with gun crime now commonplace , thugs on every street corner carry knives and are very willing to use them but we don’t have an answer. We want an unarmed police force and a utopian society but while we continue to debate it year after year violent crime rates soar, time to face reality and fight fire with fire. We don’t do this job every day, he does and is the expert here so it may be an idea to introduce gun training to new garda recuits and let them carry guns …. when there are new garda recruits … in a few years. Thats the bigger crime here.

Well said author but what u don’t understand is Ireland is a left wing Marxist country with no time for authority of any kind the people and media attack the police at every opportunity so they will never be armed. I will not read the comments below as I know well they will be full of commie/anti authority tripe. Way too many sofa law enforcement experts in Ireland.

I fully agree that law enforcement officers need to be armed. The current level of national & international crime warrants if not demands it.
However, and this is a big HOWEVER, any law enforcement officer carrying a firearm needs correct and ongoing training in how to use it and most importantly how *not* to use it.
Firearms should never be carried by untrained personnel.

Awful idea, last thing we need in this country is to introduce more f**king weapons onto the street. Tell this shit to go home and see how well firearms have served his poxy country!

Just for balance; having been at the wrong end of a police owned gun barrel on a few occasion (I was innocent!) I can testify that firearms training in some other European countries also is below standard.

well said paul mulligan

I believe it is time to arm the Gardai. Look at what happened in England, two police officers killed. Ireland is getting worse, drugs are rife, weapons are being shipped in with drugs as a bonus. There is no punishment in court for these people. Gardai are being attacked on a regular basis . Knife crime is rising, Garda numbers are dropping. When will we decide that our Gardai deserved to be protected. If Gardai are issued firearms it will only be for life and death situations. They would not be pulling weapons at checkpoints, or at public order incidents. Gardai will not become Rambo like. They will not go charging into armed incidents because they are armed, they will not go charging in because they are not bulletproof. Training would be very important, and ongoing training is a must . I believe that 12- 15 million would do it. That can be tweaked from the Garda budget, of Gardai could pay for their own weapon, training and vest. This money could be refunded by a tax break when they retire. Let’s put the lives of our Gardai first, allow them to protect themselves and us. The idea of the unarmed police officer is an out of date ideology, an amazing one yet I fear no longer sufficient for today’s climate. It is time for change, let’s not wait till our Gardai are killed before we bring this discussion into the light. It will not be the price of the firearm or the training that will be the barrier to changing An Garda Siochana, it will be trying to get a vote into the Dail. If you agree with this or not I respect you’re opinion, but look at it this way. Our Gardai are worth the price of a vote in the Dail? At least give them that. Allow Ireland to speak on this matter, please please do not allow the Dail to brush them under the carpet. Out Gardai are worth a vote. Thank you.

Yes it’s time to arm the police in the uk too.

Interesting article but it is missing the fact that our Gardai are already armed, we just don’t need our uniformed Gardai armed. Ireland is not a violent society, sure there are criminal elements but in the main Ireland is a safe place to live and grow up in. Have no fear, if the Gardai need to open for business for armed criminals they will and they won’t hesitate either. I am proud to live in a country where the informed Gardai(police) are there to keep the peace and work with the people not like in some countries where the police are a “law enforcement” entity only. Policing is more than just carrying a gun around.