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Dublin: 10 °C Sunday 26 May, 2013

Column: Why is the government recommending a Yes vote? Here’s why

Taoiseach Enda Kenny writes that a Yes vote won’t magically transform Ireland into a better country overnight – but the stakes are still high.

Enda Kenny

They may not have met in any debates but Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams have written for TheJournal.ie about how Ireland should vote in Thursday’s referendum. Gerry Adams can be read here; and in this piece, the Taoiseach writes about how a Yes vote won’t magically transform Ireland overnight – but it still matters.

SO THE CAMPAIGN for the Stability Treaty referendum is nearly over. Your decision later this week will be a very important one for Ireland and I want in this short piece to repeat my case for a Yes vote.

I want to say at the start that a Yes vote isn’t going to transform us overnight into a full-employment, deficit-free Ireland, just as a No vote definitely isn’t going to magically end austerity or wipe out debt. You’d be right to be cynical if told either of those arguments. And yet the stakes for Ireland are very high indeed.

Why is this? Why is the government recommending it to the people as good for Ireland? Why has it got so much support from outside politics – from job-creators big and small, from farmers and food sector people, from high-achieving sportspeople, from trade unionists, from small businesses and from our innovative IT sector?

Well, firstly, a Yes vote will ensure that the flow of investment and jobs continues and grows. It reassures potential investors that we are staying the course, that our recovery is on track and that we remain at the centre of Europe. I meet investors every week. They are impressed with the track record and talent of the Irish people but they are looking for certainty about Ireland’s recovery plan. A Yes vote on the Stability Treaty provides that certainty so that those who are about to make decisions about investing in Ireland can follow the many major companies who already have done so with confidence.

Secondly, the Stability Treaty gives us the right to access the new permanent bailout fund, the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) – it’s the only certain show in town for emergency funding if needed for our public services and we can’t access it if we vote No. The independent Referendum Commission has confirmed this. I want Ireland to have the same access to this important insurance policy as the other Euro countries.

Finally, the Treaty allows us to get our house in order and move towards a balanced budget gradually. Although budget rules are not the solution to all of Ireland’s or Europe’s problems the Treaty will help prevent the mistakes of the past being repeated, like unsustainable spending based on temporary revenues, such as a property bubble.

I believe there are really positive reasons for voting in favour of this Treaty. As well as maintaining investor confidence, providing a certain funding mechanism for Europe and better budgeting rules, it is fundamentally about creating stability in the Eurozone. Stability provides the platform for growth.

It is also important to say that some of the issues raised during the campaign were not true. The Treaty has nothing to do with corporation tax. The Treaty has nothing to do with a financial transaction tax. There are no circumstances in which Irish budgets will be drafted by others. And the Government’s work on reducing the debt burden on the Irish people continues, but is entirely separate.

I know that people have endured a lot as a result of Ireland’s economic crisis. Those who have lost jobs. Those who have lost family members to other shores. Those who have seen their family incomes dramatically reduced and are struggling to make ends meet. The reality is we continue to face challenging times and tough decisions, but we have made a start on the road to recovery. I do not want to see us diverted from that path.

The decision is in your hands. A Yes provides certainty. A No creates uncertainty. I ask you to vote Yes on Thursday. For Ireland, for stability, for investment and for recovery.

Enda Kenny TD is Taoiseach and leader of Fine Gael

Column: Read why Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams is calling for a No vote >

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Comments (185 Comments)

  • Absolutely right Enda, we are struggling to make ends meet, a struggle that doesn’t appear to be going away anytime soon. Maybe you and your colleagues could show a little solidarity with the people you claim to represent and do the decent thing by taking a drop in salary as the French government have just done. Then again that would require a conscience and a set of balls. Just a thought…

    Reply
  • The problem with both sides using public money to argue yes or no is that they represent a political class that has woefully underachieved!, Sinn Fein and the people before profit are full of it and have no answers to questions about improving this country now and in the future but they are having a great time protesting! Whilst Fine Gael and Labour are so institutionalised that they are mere P/R puppets of a deliberately incompetent bureaucratic system overrun with cronyism and an unaccountable elite made millionaires by the foolish gifts of the public purse. Until we hold all our political “leaders” accountable starting at local level we will never get the system of democracy we deserve and need. I firmly believe that this country would journey quicker to recovery if it was governed adequately! As for the treaty I’m undecided but i will vote! but not one politician will have swayed me either way.

    Reply
  • Corporation tax and a financial transaction tax are both items supported by merkel and hollande who have yet to finalise the treaty, that kenny would advocate a yes vote which would enshrine this draft version into the Irish constitution and allow any and all ammendments as they arise to become law in this country is a clear display of his political naievity, The rest of europe has chosen to wait for the finished article this idiot will buy a house from the plans and if he ends up with another Priory Hall well then we will pay the price, his state pension and perks will certainly cushion his fall.,

    Reply
    • Ireland is steadfast opposed to a corporate tax rise or a financial transaction tax. Any such taxes need to be passed by the cabinet, dail, Seanad and president like all taxes. The treaty doesn’t change this.

      The casual implication that these two taxes are at risk by this treaty is completely false!

      Reply
    • For gods sakes… This treaty is NOT added to our constitution, it’s only the permission for the government to ratify it that we add. The treaty is the finished article. If something else comes along we can decide on that then. The rest of Europe has not chosen to wait on it, I saw the same crap as this on a poster yesterday.. You’re just saying stuff like it’s actually true.

      Reply
    • censored 30/05/12 #

      That’s the best sophistry you’ve come up with yet, Gary.

      Reply
    • Gary. You’re telling an untruth. The amendment is not simply allowing the govt to ratify the treaty. This lie was also peddled by Moan Burton. That part is the first sentence. The second sentence gives away our sovereignty.

      Please familiarize yourself with the text of the amendment, that way you won’t be caught out.

      I’ve kindly pasted it here for you. Concentrate on the second sentence if you will.

      “The State may ratify the Treaty on Stability, Co-ordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union done at Brussels on the 2nd day of March 2012. No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by the obligations of the State under that Treaty or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by bodies competent under that Treaty from having the force of law in the State.”

      Reply
    • Scrap. The problem is here you don’t understand what that text means. You’ve decided to take the most scary possibility, on purpose would be my guess. I didn’t know myself so I asked a constitutional lawyer what it meant and they assured me it only gives the government permission to ratify it. Why don’t you ask a constitutional lawyer and see for yourself?

      Here’s the one from the Lisbon treaty.
      “No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by the obligations of membership of the European Union or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the said European Union or institutions thereof or bodies competent under the treaties referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State”

      So according to you the one from the Fiscal treaty (and I quote) “gives away our sovereignty”. But that would also mean the one from Lisbon gave away our sovereignty and oddly according to you we’re giving away our sovereignty now. And the Lisbon treaty was not written into our constitution.

      Can you stop going on with this rubbish now… it is NOT written into our constitution and it does NOT give away our sovereignty.

      Reply
    • So what does it mean then Gary?

      Reply
    • Gary. If you read the full Lisbon amendment it finishes with “to prevent us from leaving the European union”. It’s not as wide open as this one

      Reply
    • Scrap. Lisbon for the first time introduced a mechanism to leave the EU. So you’re now saying they forced us to stay in the EU but also brought in a way to leave… makes no sense. I really think you’re doing this on propose to frighten people.

      Paul. I thought by using an almost identical example from Lisbon would make it obvious.

      Reply
    • Gary. If you read the full text of the Lisbon amendment you can clearly see several opt out clauses under section 7 of that provision. This is why it passed second time round.

      There are no such clauses here. And “No provision of this constitution … ” renders the protective clauses we had so painstakingly inserted for Lisbon 2 useless

      Stop blindly believing your FG masters. They’ve been proven tone born liars, shleeveen’s and gombeen men time and time again

      Try speaking while Inda is drinking a glass of water and see does anything come out

      Reply
  • Well well well, enda popped out from behind the teleprompter long enough to write a piece, did he? And what does he do, play with words by claiming that the ESM is “the only certain show in town for emergency funding”. It is not the only show in town, and it most definitely is not certain. Here we see the typical cute hoor politican speak in action.

    If the treaty is that worth voting for why didn’t you come out as the leader of the ‘yes’ campaign and fight your bloody corner you coward?

    Reply
  • Enda. Cut your “gross” pay from 200k to 140k. Follow through with similar across the public sector and semi state demi gods. Cap social welfare at minimum wage. Abolish all quangos. Stop paying public service increments. Stop paying 1.5 billion a year in pensionable allowances. Hand back the German bank debt to Merkel. Grow a pair.

    How in the name of God does borrowing MORE money fix our problems?

    People like you have spent your entire life suckling at the nipple of the state. You never earned a penny outside of the state feeding you. I have news for you enda. Money does not grow on trees. It’s created from the sweat of private sector workers.

    You want to borrow another 60 billion? Who the hell is going to pay this back? Us?

    You’re an absolute disgrace for a politician holding your teaching post open for 30 years while u gorged yourself in the Dail, sitting in the seat you inherited from Daddy.

    You expect now, after all your broken election promises, to roll over and have me tickle your little belly?

    You make me physically sick

    A definite No from here

    Reply
  • We will go to the polls this thursday to vote on the Fiscal Treaty. A large majority of people will get scared and vote Yes. I’ll be voting No.

    On Sunday 17th June 2012 the Greek people will also go to the polls to elect a new government. It is a huge possiblity the Greek people will say feck this we have enough of this austerity programme and elect a government who oppose austerity. That means The Euro is a step closer from collapsing which will have serious consquences for all of the Eurozone.

    Reply
    • The government elected in Greece may oppose austerity, but without Troika or market funding the austerity they are experiencing will get much, much worse if they have to balance the budget overnight as well as leave the euro.

      Austerity = spending cutbacks and tax increases. The populist nonsense that when a country spends billions more than it takes in through taxes that it can just indefinitely keep borrowing more and more is just that – populist nonsense.

      The best the Greeks can hope for is a slower pace of austerity, but then there’s the argument that that creates further uncertainty.

      Reply
    • censored 29/05/12 #

      Greece already ratified the fiscal compact.

      Reply
    • @Ryan you forgot to factor in there huge debt repayment ,If they postpone all debt repayment they can balance there budget easily .sorry to burst another (you have to vote yes) bubble

      Reply
    • Jeff that is total nonsense.
      http://economic-incentives.blogspot.com/2011/11/deficit-and-banks.html
      “If we do a simple counterfactual and magic away the €62.5 billion we have pumped into the banks, the projected deficit for 2012 would fall from €13.6 billion to €12.8 billion or 8.0% of GDP. Eliminating the effect of the bank payments would knock 5% off the deficit; 95% of next year’s deficit is not related to the bank payments.

      There are many claims that the expenditure cuts and tax increases are being introduced to “bail out the banks”, “repay bondholders” and the like. The changes are being introduced to bring about the necessary reduction in the budget deficit. There may be disagreements about the make-up of the changes but 95% of the problem there are trying to address is not as a result of the money we have handed over to the banks.”

      Reply
  • Since when did Enda write for the journal?

    Reply
  • I will never again believe a word you say Enda. From broken election promises to the sheer arrogance your party has shown since they’ve been in power. The way ye manipulate figures, eg saying that the numbers of people on the live register are falling because of your Government’s work, when we all know it is because people are leaving the country by the thousand. I could go on, but I won’t waste any more time. I am voting No because you are advocating a Yes vote, and I don’t believe a word you say.
    PS Why aren’t the Government listening to David McWilliams et al at this stage? He and other economists have been on the button for years regarding our economy. The fact that he is being ignored, suggests to me that there is a hidden agenda among Europe’s elite.

    Reply
  • Enda’s wages should be based on his performance. IE: he wins a debate he gets 5 grand, he makes a powerful inspiring speech 10grand, he stands up for the people that elected him he gets……ahh forget it, the little worm would starve.

    Reply
    • Simple solution: just link it to the average national wage .. and add in Buffet’s law:

      “I could end the deficit in five minutes. You just pass a law that says that any time there’s a deficit of more than three percent of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election.”

      Reply
  • “Let no man dare, when I am dead. to charge me with dishonor; let no man attaint my memory by believing that I could have engaged in any cause but that of my country’s liberty and independence, or that I could have become the pliant minion of power in the oppression or the miseries of my countrymen.”

    Robert Emmet, 1803

    You’ll never be able to say that Enda Kenny. Traitor

    Reply
  • I still can’t make my mind up. Why do we have to vote on this now ? Can we not wate and see how things go elsewhere and everything is finalised.
    The way it’s looking we’re fecked eather way.
    The governments top priority seems tobe looking after themselves and there friends.
    If things get much worse ill be better off on the dole.

    Reply
  • Vote yes for access to more Debt.Stability my hole

    Reply
  • How do we know you even wrote this shizzle?

    Reply
  • Spoofer – What sort of a leader doesn’t debate the issues but hides behind spin doctors. Weak!

    Reply
    • Weak and Pathetic.

      Reply
    • every leader i have seen so far… thats why they get the “lead” position….
      muppets, the lot of em, no country is any different really.

      Reply
    • Kathy 30/05/12 #

      The kind of leader who refuses to dance to the tune of the likes of Gerry Adams or Vin Browne, and fair play to him. Adams yet again has taken the easy option by promoting a No vote, with no credible solution as to where this country is supposed to source the money to fund our day to day needs if required. From the very start of this campaign Adams has lied to the people by referring to the treaty as an austerity treaty. He omitted to mention the fact that if we do as he suggests and vote no, then there will be a hell of a lot more austerity when this country is forced to borrow money at ridiculous rates. Enda Kenny has debated this issue thoroughly with Adams in the Dail and on more than one occasion Adams has been found wanting. Kenny has proven again and again that he is twice the man Adams could ever hope to be, and the attempt to belittle him for refusing to give any legitimacy to Adams stance on this is simply another pathetic diversionary tactic by the No side.

      Reply
    • @Kathy. I’m a no voter. I agree with u with Gerry, well the lift doesn’t go all the way to the top floor, to put it diplomatically. I’m voting No because I believe the yes side. I don’t want any more money borrowed. Scrap Croke Park and make a huge effort to balance the books. Hand back the German bank debt. Do that we can borrow for a short period no problem

      Reply
  • Thanks to The Journal for Enda and Gerry’s sides of the coin. Think we could do with another one of each, as in another column for a yes and one for a no written by a supporter for each.

    Enda needs to grow a pair of cubes though and stand face to face on TV with his opposers. He’s a weak leader as it is and his refusal to do so only makes him look worse.

    Reply
    • Cheers Patrick. We’re going to be having people from the Yes and the No side answering questions about the Treaty tomorrow, as well as neutral groups yoo, so readers can compare/contrast/yell questions at/get angry at all sides :)

      Reply
  • Respect the electorate and debate the treaty with the leader of the opposition, Gerry Adams.

    Reply
  • I’m amazed how statesman like and responsible Fianna Fail sound in all of this discussion.
    Let us not forget we wouldn’t be in a €100 billion hole if it wasn’t for Berties 3 terms in government.

    Reply
  • How can taxpayers and small business owners have confidence in a government comprised of parties that broke most of their election pledges? That’s the question Mr Kenny should answer. This government promised change but instead only another set of understudies came on while the play remained the same. Mr Rabbite let the cat out of the bag recently, as reported in the Sunday Independent, that the government has no plan. Browbeating, threatening and coercing taxpayers and citizens to pay new taxes is not a plan.

    Reply
  • doesnt matter what we vote on thursday. its already done when the government signed for the bailout. eitherway we are banjaxed for years to come..

    Reply
    • “…that the flow of investment and jobs continues…”

      CONTINUES,Enda?! Jaysus…if what we have now is “investment&jobs”, a DEFINITE No! We’re BACK in recession ffs! Don’t want to continue in THAT direction!!

      Reply
    • Enda. If you grew a pair of balls I might listen to you. Stop being so infatuated with Europe and its leaders and remember who voted you in, us, the Irish people ! Don’t continue selling us out. Stand up to them and grow a pair. I’ll be voting NO.

      Reply
    • Most of you were fanatical Fiana Fail followers for decades.
      You never saw it coming how they sold all you faithful voters down the river.
      FF had the opportunity to wreck the economy of this island. And they did wreck it because of their selfish practice.
      Because of their greed and dishonesty.
      And now you expect another party to sort out this colossal mess in a blink of an eye?
      Go ahead and vote NO.
      If all of you NO voters get your wish and things go pearshaped, who will you choose to blame next?

      Reply
    • There are no posters all over the place which imply that voting no will end austerity or stop water and house taxes. I wonder what lie these guys will tell if there’s a no vote and we still have austerity and water and house taxes. One thing is a given, we are having austerity as we spend far more than we have, one third of all government spending is borrowed. Anyone who says they’ll stop austerity is a damn liar.
      While saying that Declan Ganley is still being applauded for the things he said about the Lisbon treaty and I genuinely can’t find anything he said about the Lisbon treaty that turned out to be correct. We hate the establishment in this country so much we’d rather believe anyone else, even when those people are bigger liars than the establishment..

      Reply
    • In the USA they swing between American and international issues.
      In Ireland we swing between British and European Issues.
      When will Irish issues make agenda?

      Reply
    • I just watched 2 govt. ministers debate on prime time with the no campaigners!!!
      The only statement that caught my attention was” We need access to these funds in the future!!”

      Now , can someone tell me, if we’re all Rosy with the IMF, EU.. And hitting our targets!!!
      Why on earth would we need to access funds in the future ???
      So what aren’t our present Govt.. Not telling us?
      After all they did say ( pre-election lmfao!!!) that they’d tell us the truth!!
      The only thing Joan Bruton convinced me of tonight, was I’ll be voting “no”!!

      Reply
    • Enda Kenny is paid (overpaid) to be the leader of this country. He has shown very little leadership throughout this whole treaty campaign. We deserve better. We should stand up for ourselves where he has failed.

      Reply
    • I think this referendum is all to do with giving FG an easier time in government. they know we need to get down to 2003 levels of expenditure and are unwilling to make the sacrifices to do so. At the expense is of course our sovereignty as a nation.

      Reply
    • Im trying to compile a list of parody (realistic!) names for Government ministers etc..will you help me out?

      So far I have:

      Lucinda Cretin or Lucifer Cretin
      Moan Burton
      Richard Brutal or Brutal Dick
      Enda “Can I?” (Kenny!)

      Any good ones for Varadkar and Gilmore?

      Reply
    • Aimless GimmeMore
      Leo VatsACar
      EndOf Canny
      Brainless Howler
      MeHole Moonin
      Semen Covets

      And to balance it up…
      Mary To McDonlads

      Reply
    • Richard Brutal, Alan Shat Star,

      Reply
  • Answer questions in a debate, you unmerciful chicken.

    Reply
  • mel 29/05/12 #

    What a joke,I wouldn’t even say Enda even wrote that,
    “investment and job’s” if we didn’t have the huge bank debt and had the guts to burn the bond holders as Denmark did we might see sum light at the end of the tunnel ,Enda and his government are a disgrace , whatever happened to ” burden sharing” , oh and by the way he is still paid more than Merkel!

    Reply
  • Aldo 29/05/12 #

    NO

    Reply
  • 1) There is plenty of evidence in recent weeks that companies will continue to invest in Ireland regardless of the outcome of this Treaty.

    2) it does give the right to access funds from the ESM. But there is still no gaurantee that we will get funds. All we will have is, in the Taoiseachs words, ‘the right’ to access funds.

    3) even the economists on the Yes side will admit the treaty makes no economic sense. The targets in treaty already exist in the Growth & Stability pact. And that pact, as well as Ireland having been the poster boys of Europe not so long ago, did damn all to prevent a property bubble and banking crisis. Ditto for this treaty.

    Reply
    • 1. Really, they said that did they?
      2. Voting no make it harder to access fund, at the right cost. Let’s not pretend otherwise.
      3. We just had a report which says 40 odd of our top economists want a Yes vote, 90% of those surveyed. http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/Politics/90%25+of+Irish+economists+%27back+a+Yes+vote%27/id/19410615-5218-4fbf-93e6-390982093312

      http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News+Focus/Myth+vs+reality%3A+the+facts+behind+the+fiscal+treaty/id/e5be1f99-09e4-452e-92ab-e303cb2359d0
      Myth: we could vote No and still be sure of getting money from somewhere for a second bailout, if we need it

      Reality: the rules are clear. Countries which do not implement the treaty are not entitled to avail of funding under the European Stability Mechanism, the permanent bailout fund.

      Those who argue otherwise believe that we would not be let “go bust” and that money would be found or the rules changed. There is no way of knowing this in advance.

      Another issue is that the money available from the ESM will – likely the current EU funding – be available at an attractive rate. Even if further funds were available, there is no guarantee they would be at this rate, or that they would not include other terms and conditions.

      Sources believe it is unlikely that the IMF would lend to Ireland on its own. This is because we have already borrowed a lot from the IMF – well above the normal amount it would lend a country of Ireland’s size – and the IMF wants the security of lending alongside EU countries to increase its chance of getting its money back.

      Reply
    • 1. They announced jobs. Intel 1000 IBM 300. Amazon 100
      2. Good. I don’t want any more funding so Inda, higher public servants and married dolies with kids in private rented accommodation can live the high life
      3. All in receipt of govt funding. Turkeys dont vote for Xmas

      ESM funding.
      - You don’t know what rate it’s at either
      - any one of the signatories can veto us getting it
      - you don’t know what conditions are attached
      - Greece have already ratified, look at them
      - the fund doesn’t exist yet
      - we’ll be required to fund it to the tune of 11 billion at least cos let’s face it, Spain and Italy will need it

      Only a lunatic would vote yes

      Reply
    • @ Gary “Reality: the rules are clear. Countries which do not implement the treaty are not entitled to avail of funding under the European Stability Mechanism, the permanent bailout fund.” Who agreed to that? Would it be pat on the head Kenny?

      Reply
    • Scrap.
      1. Lot’s of good jobs being announced, great for us all.
      2. If the axe comes down, it’ll hit the poor and the needy. Those insulated at the top will stay insulated at the top.
      3. Indeed. The poor will get it in the neck so why would you vote no?
      And honestly you’re just using the ESM as a red herring. There’s enough good in the Fiscal treaty to vote yes.

      Alex Blake
      Let’s leave Ireland out of this for a second. Do you actually think that all 16 other Eurozone countries agreed to do something that wasn’t in their interests?

      Reply
    • I thought most of that good was already in other treaties Gary, and it was ignored then, it’ll be ignored now.

      Reply
    • Paul. I think you’ve ‘forgotten’ that the Fiscal Compacts changes the rules on how things are enforced. Making it very difficult of anyone to ignore the rules, instead of very easy.

      Reply
    • Announced today – 3000 more people on the live register. So thats your
      “1. Lot’s of good jobs being announced, great for us all.” By the time these jobs are actually available another 70,000 people will have left the country and thousands more on the dole que.

      Reply
  • Neil 29/05/12 #

    A) That more than likely wasn’t Enda Kenny. 99.9999999% more likely that was one of his overpaid lackeys.

    B) I find it sickening that Enda Kenny will put his name to an article here but won’t have a proper debate about the treaty.

    C) It freaks me out to agree with not only John McGuirk but also with Declan Ganley. I’m pinning this on Enda and his buddies too.

    Finally, honest question: Did Distilled Media pay the guy posing as Taoiseach Kenny, or did we foot the bill?

    Reply
  • Easy money was bad for everyone. Why should I have to pay for it?

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  • If I cant pay my credit card bill, is it sensible to borrow from a loan shark (YES VOTE) or negotiate a writedown / repayment plan with the bank whilst drastically cutting costs overnight (NO VOTE)
    Its simple f*n economics. Water is pissing out the holes in the bucket. You’ve got to plug the holes.

    Of course FG/Lab are merkel brainwashed and too self serving to realise that a YES vote does not serve the interests of the Irish people. It might well look after their pensions but the rest of us are f****d for the next 20 years if a YES vote goes through.

    On the other hand a NO vote will see some real pain but a return to growth in 5-10 years.

    Reply
  • I’ve enjoyed & learned a few things on these treads on this treaty, there is a great knowledge base on both sides to be fair, also some misguided individuals but all our views are formed by the path our lives have taken & what we have subconsciously been exposed to. I was a firm No voter before the campaign but I am now set in concrete in my view thst this treaty is a very slow car crash that will destroy our country. Thanks all for the efforts to enlighten us from both sides.
    I am now 100% confident that a No vote is the right decision for our country and families.

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    • So basically you were always going to vote no. I doubt you listened at all to yes side arguments.

      I was going to vote no at the start of the campaign, then I read the background to the treaty and now I’m voting yes.
      Also, the amount of lunatics and dimwits on the no side didn’t help (Sinn Fein, Libertas, UKIP, United Left Alliance etc).

      Reply
  • Did Terry Prone write this article by herself, or did she get Enda to help her?. Sorry, maybe I got that the wrong way around, or did I?.

    Reply
  • I am voting a definite NO to permanent austerity.

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  • Spot on rodrigo

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  • Why we should vote NO ” it aims to make people pay with higher taxes, charges and cuts in services to save German and French banks” if we the Irish people vote yes we should be ashamed of ourselfs! Know the facts people before you vote

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  • I will be voting no because I want more time to see how things pan out in Europe, I am fairly certain their will be a second vote if ‘no’ is successful. A lot of spin from both sides and it is hard to see the wood from the trees.
    Thanks to the post quoting a section of the treaty but I can’t help but think the yes side should have spent the time translating the entire thing and sending it to the average Joe if their is nothing to hide in its content.
    Point by point line by line if its so important make sure everyone understands it ffs then and only then can they have a yes from me.
    I fear for Irelands future and don’t want to rush into anything.

    Reply
  • if you want an idea of what the political class thinks of you just take a look at this as Enda hands over you’re taxes for the next few generations http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2151681/IMF-chief-Christine-Lagarde-pays-NO-TAX-300-000-salary-despite-attacking-Greece-dodging-payment.html

    Reply
  • What happened to the 5 point jobs plan Kenny? Waste of space and I say that as a life long FG voter. Never again. Traitor.

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  • The same people who are asking you to vote yes are the same ones who wanted you to vote yes to Lisbon. Remember “Vote Yes for Jobs” utter nonsense…

    Reply
    • An don the flip side of that…
      No side claims
      The minimum wage would be reduced to €1.84
      Ireland would be forced to engage in military action in something like a terrorist attack
      We would lose our neutrality
      It would create a European superstate
      Abortion would be made legal
      Gay marriage would be made legal
      Euthanasia would be made legal
      The death penalty would be made legal
      The guarantees were not legally binding and would be renaged on
      Michael O’Leary campaigned for the yes side in exchange for being allowed to buy Aer Lingus
      During the canmpaign polls were rigged to make it look like the yes side were ahead
      Turkey would be allowed to join the EU
      The treaty made EU law superior to Irish law (it already was and has been since 1973)
      We would lose the right to referendums
      Our constitution would be null and void
      Healthcare and education would be privatised
      We would be forced to increase military spending
      The charter of human rights would allow the EU to take the homes, assets and children of people with mild intellectual disabilities and alcoholics
      We would lose our veto in all areas
      A new EU army would be created and which would conscript Irish people
      Tony Blair would become the EU president
      https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74672530&postcount=1

      Seem incredible but when the no side lies (regularly) it doesn’t seem to count for some people.

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  • ‘telling investors that we are staying at the centre of Europe ‘ … For crying out loud I am sick of hearing this garbage from EK and the government! Calling a spade a spade, the weakness of the argument put forward by EK and the government over this campaign would almost convince you to vote no even if your gut was telling you Yes all the way!!
    I mean ‘centre of Europe ‘.. What a load of rubbish! We are a peripheral country geographically and politically and are referred to as such my most european beurocrats! Secondly a No vote is not anti-European or telling the EU that we don’t want to be in the gang, the same way as voting No on an Irish referendum is NOT anti-Irish! Don’t buy this empty rhetoric .. If you vote yes, I hope you do so on a more credible point that has been put forward by EK and co at least

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  • Can TheJournal.ie try and get an article from Constantin Gurdgiev. I know he doesn’t want to publically endorse either side, but I would love to get his perspective on the matter.

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    • I’ll try in the morning but I don’t honestly think we’ll have time to get anything from him before the moratorium kicks in at 2pm. He has been tweeting a fair bit about it over the last few days, if that’s any use (possibly not). There will be stuff up on the site tomorrow morning from a few different viewpoints on Treaty, might be something worth reading there…

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    • Constantin Gurdgiev is probably one of thee most economically educated peeps on the island but yet he gets ignored and berated left right and center.. by politicians.
      Its farcical to think he,s sitting on the sideline watching the team play with no defence 2 midfielders and 8 forwards trying to score goals in europe.
      Despite who i see on the no side, Michael Taft, Adams, Mcwilliams Eddie hobbs and any other madman it doesnt cloud my judgement to see what is BEST for ireland. Were voting on a pig in a bag with this esm, despite both arguments i can see vividly both sides but its clear from a no prospective that its the best way forward for now. IF we indeed come back with a concrete esm with growth package included i,ll vehemently advocate a yes vote to all my friends.. but until that happens it most defintely will be no for now.

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    • http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/Politics/90%25+of+Irish+economists+%27back+a+Yes+vote%27/id/19410615-5218-4fbf-93e6-390982093312
      90% of Irish economists ‘back a Yes vote’
      Survey claims nine out of ten economists back Yes vote

      Nine out of ten of “Ireland’s leading economists” say a yes vote in the Fiscal Treaty is in Ireland’s best interest, according to a new survey,

      The Indecon International Economic Consultants survey of the views of 44 economists in Ireland also claims that one of the most significant impacts of the Treaty vote arises from the inability to access EMS Funds if Ireland voted ‘No’.

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    • Again Gary – subjective, any answer for the question that myself, Sean O’Keefe and Cal asked you about Krugman and Stiglitz, you know those Nobel prize winning economist. These men are the REAL leaders in this field.

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  • There is only one reason why the traitors of Ireland want a yes vote and that is getting access to easy money, which is all they care about.

    Quote from above “investment and jobs continues”. 350,000 emigrate, 450,000 on the dole. Systematically stealing from Social Welfare Recipients for the last 15 years using opinions to hide their mistakes.

    These people must be blind not to see the damage done to the Irish People since joining the European community.

    Its time to end the blatant greed of the few and say no.

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    • How do you “systematically steal” from a social welfare recipient??

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    • By hiding the numbers, political shuffling to make things seem better. For eg, live register figures down due to people on back to education/robs bridge/path way to slavery! This government are very handy at shifting the no.s. and IMHO incompetent at everything elce. Who really wrote the piece Edna? A special advisor who breached the pay cap maybe? Vote no ! Lying traitors, I will be thinking of ALL your broken pre election promises and your famous inept five point plan!

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    • @Ignoreland: Systematic in this context means they targeted individual people or groups of people with a plan based on using opinions to mislead, coerce and manipulate and defraud.

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    • Why shouldn’t we be concerned with easy money? We’ve got a massive deficit to fill!!

      If you don’t have easy money then all you’re left with is hard times.

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    • Easy money is just kicking the can down the road for future generations to pick up. It’s selfish. Its thoughtless. It’s irresponsible. It’s FG all over

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  • If u MR ENDA KENNY think this is such a good deal for us the IRISH electorate, why then dont u have the guts to stand up and debate this with the NO side and STOP hiding behind ur 1 & only argument we wont get no money after next year.All iv heard from the government throughout this campain is THREAT after THREAT after THREAT. so if u could please stand up and do ur job and go out to Europe and stand up for us the people of IRELAND not europe we would deeply appreciate it VOTE NO TO COWARDLY PRIME MINISTERS who only worry about their own friends and chronies

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  • Sorry Enda, no cigar

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  • ”Well, firstly, a Yes vote will ensure that the flow of investment and jobs continues and grows.” are you having a laugh kenny?? what direction is it flowing in because it seems to have bypassed everywhere except the dail, where jobs are invented by the minute for advisors who tell elected officials how to run the country.

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  • Clear and logical… I wonder how many red thumbs I’ll get?

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  • Tomorrow they shall ask us
    And we shall scream “NEIN!”
    And when they ask us again
    We shall scream “NEIN!”

    NINE times out of NINE
    We shall scream “NEIN!”
    Until the Germans learn
    That “NEIN!” means NEIN!”.

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  • bit like rte Rodrigo!

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  • Can we have another poll on the Treaty?

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  • I will be voting yes and not because I’m asked to by Government, but because I believe it is a good thing to keep govenments from spending beyond their means. To many times in the past finance minsters have a give away budget in the run up to elections, for their own political interests, regardless of whether or not in was in the national interest. So I am voting yes because I don’t trust politicans, at least this puts sensible constraints on them.

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  • Your comment is still visible one above this one. Remember that sometimes comments don’t display instantaneously.

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  • Garry wake up to the real world
    Gays should get married, abortion should be available in Eire, poor murderers might be given the death penalty I feel so sorry for them, I can’t remember the rest of the bull u spouted but I’ll be voting opposite of you!!

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  • Is it just me, or are there certain qualities to the typical no-sider? They seem to be either:

    (a) uneducated and dim-witted, or;
    (b) national socialist, or;
    (c) the most afraid people in the country.

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    • It’s just you :D

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    • Paul Oh 30/05/12 #

      Absolutely just you

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    • (a) Trinity Hons graduate
      (b) Too right wing according to my friend – I have only one naturally
      (c) Self employed

      Does that tick yer boxes?

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    • Only a dim witted coward would vote Yes to a treaty the germans ,french, dutch wont ratify because they want to change it, but they’ve agreed they wont say that until irelands innocent little yes men like you pass it. The no side are the informed ones, your hero Enda knows that, thats why he wont debate it coz its a fools treaty and he knows the less he says on it the better for him. He’ll let his minions fall on its sword. What are you educated in anyway? you know a fas course doesn’t count as a proper education.

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    • @Martin. I fat fingered the thumb down sorry. Was meant to be up.

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    • Well said Martin. The yes side must be afraid of loosing. A sure sign of it is when they start insulting the opposition rather then presenting an argument to support their side of the discussion. Mind it must be very difficult to advocate a yes vote when the leader of the yes side has to be shielded by his handlers and is not allowed to debate the treaty on national TV.

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  • Here is my blog on one aspect of this referendum, which I would consider a worrying path for Ireland and Europe. I welcome comments, thoughts and debate :) (For full article read
    http://austeritytreaty.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/what-we-admire-what-we-worship.html)

    Often, I see success and financial wealth confused by people as being one and the same thing. I believe there is a distraction from credible sources of knowledge that is gained by academics & scientists in place of the interests of business leaders which are often opposing.

    Richard Dawkins has shown how some elements of society are blind to rational thought through their religious beliefs – it is thought the same distraction occurs through the portrayal and citing of business leaders as authoritative sources on important democratic decisions.

    I exact that this is a dangerous frame of mind, and one of the thought processes encouraged by conservative and neo-liberal politicians, especially in the past few years. I feel this is one of the thought processes of those who campaign for a yes vote in the upcoming referendum in Ireland on the Fiscal Stability Treaty.

    There exists a frame of mind which equates earning power through business as something to aspire towards, and if you cannot achieve this, the next best thing appears to be to respect those that do. To earn financial wealth requires the initial financial means, the time, dedication and the will to do so. It requires confidence, along with an ability to sell something, whether it’s of value or not – as long as you can illustrate a value effectively. There is nothing necessarily wrong with this kind of ambition as long as the kind of people who achieve such financial success do not become thought leaders in our society.

    But this is not the case. Most of our greatest academics, intellectuals, artists, activists, scientists and so on, are not wealthy in relative terms. To achieve success in their fields, these individuals too require time and dedication to their discipline, but it comes at the expense of financial wealth and a public profile. Ironically however, these are the individuals whose thoughts we might prioritise.

    A college lecturer may be belittled by those in a position of power, and overlooked in turn by the media when it comes to issues of political importance (we can see this kind of business machoism – the “I earn more than you” argument, in the video below). The fact that mass media often overlook such knowledgeable sources is not a new claim and has been researched perhaps most notably by Chomsky in his illustration of the Five Filters of Mass Media and occurs for many reasons.

    This distraction away from facts and more pertinent and long term issues has been particularly evident in the debate about the existence of global warming during the Bush administration years between conservatives and the scientific community. Admitting global warming was a serious issue, or an issue at all would have been detrimental to the US economy, in the eyes of the Bush administration (See here)

    An example of the portrayal of successful business people as thought leaders in Ireland, was during the last Referendum, for the Lisbon Treaty, where two businessmen, Michael O Leary and Declan Ganley, received a prime time slot on RTE, Ireland’s state broadcaster. O’Leary may have been seen as the dominant figure on the occasion due to his boasts of being a more successful business person.

    Even if “self-interest” was not the only motivator that these business leaders had in this debate, the fact that self-interest existed at all, should discredit their arguments; hence their opinion should not be a trustworthy source.

    The meaning of the socialist-liberal revolutions in Europe and America have become warped so that freedom equates to the right for one to become disproportionately wealthy, at the expense of others, and to be worshipped for it. Because business leaders are not accountable and responsible to the electorate, they do not take the brunt of the blame for economic failings as elected representatives will. Is it wise to reduce our sovereignty as citizens to further their interests?

    The principles of the aforementioned revolutions promised to ensure the citizen’s rights to personal freedom so that one might choose their own path in life whilst having the assurance of being protected from abuse of those in power through the safeguard of democratic processes. For many, their chosen path is not a path to become powerfully rich.

    The outcome of those horrific wars are now used as a justification of unrestricted freedom for those with means to become as wealthy and as powerful as possible. These business leaders are obliged to compel those without the same means to subjugate themselves to the interests of the former, so that the latter might live relatively peaceful and convenient lives. But as we are seeing in Europe, especially in Greece, there is a limit to this subjugation.

    Reply
    • And what has that got todo with voting yes or no?

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    • Ah bingo. It’s obviously the best essay James ever thought he wrote. Give him a wee break.

      While its in my mind, anyone know where can u buy an iPhone with a massive screen?

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    • Hi Bingo Bus.

      Thanks for your comment.

      I argue that we prioritise the opinions of business leaders over more pertinent sources of knowledge. I believe this has been to the detriment of society in the past. In this current referendum, we create thought leaders of business leaders in the argument of Yes vs No.

      In this case, I advocate a No vote because I think that business leaders are not good thought leaders as their only reasons for voting yes are based on self-interest. However we are, as a society, disproportionately influenced by them because we are subjugated to their interests.

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    • James

      I got bored of reading you’re comment it was so long. In future can you make it smaller.

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    • Thumbs up from me. Liked what I read and I’ll read the full text tomorrow.

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  • Argue all day vote yes our no its not going to make a bit of difference

    Reply

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