unlike the Scots, we have a written constitution so a referendum. would be required which might be very divisive and might not be carried

Very true. But if this goes through in Scotland, given the obvious similarities between the two nations, it should push the many Irish politicians off the fence they’re sitting on…

Because a province of the United Kingdom seeks permission from Whitehall to change their laws and permit same sex marriage has no bearing on what this sovereign and independent State might or should do.
Marriage between heterosexuals should not have to share its identity with partnerships of other expressions of sexuality and therefore the terms or nomenclature used to describe what we now legally define as a civil partnership can create their own descriptor.

Mick – I’m guessing you’re against same sex marriage? If so, can I ask why? I’d love to hear one valid argument, one that doesn’t revolve around some bronze age fairytales.

There is a division in legal opinion as to whether a referendum is required here. The amendment of s.2(2)(e) of Civil Registration Act 2004, could achieve the same result. Such an amendment would be presumed constitutional and it would be for the naysayers to prove that Article 41 requires different genders for marriage (despite it not being defined that way in the Constitution). Marriage has been amended a number of times over the years (eg the 2004 Act itself) by the Oireachtas and even if the amending act was found to be constitutional, the challenge in the Supreme Court would be much cheaper than the costs of an additional question on referendum day (which is about €4/5m per additional question on top of the €17m to hold a referendum at all).

Classic attitude of the homophobic male towards homosexuality. Terrified that the gay men are after you (don’t flatter yourself) so slur them and completely ignore the existence of gay women.

Why should legalising gay marriage impact on improving the economy? Why should both not happen at the same time?

Well the recent Madonna concert has distracted them for a few weeks

That’s really, really, really dumb logic, Paddy. Makes no sense. Why can’t they do both?

Govt’s have to be able to handle thousands of matters on a daily basis. If the entire Scottish Govt. just focused on the economy, the country would collapse. Horses for courses.

Wasn’t he the one in the dress?

Why, Stephen?

William Wallace fought for the freedom of every Scot (well, the romanticized version portrayed in Braveheart did, anyway). I doubt he could be more delighted.

Dead people are incapable of moving

What has William Wallace got to do with any of this? Slide back onto your couches and keep believing the nonsense you are spoonfed.

In Gaelic Ireland, as in Gaelic Scotland, homosexuality wasn’t really frowned upon. It wasn’t as contentious as it is now. Indeed in the Gaelic world there was virtually no restraint on sexuality and men and women were equally active. A free for all wouldn’t be too far off the mark.

Why exactly?

For who?

hmmmmm, obviously my comment offended. Maurice has also offended me by calling this Sad News. Can we get this deleted too please? Equality and all that.

Yes, please reinstate Martin’s comment – I wasn’t offended at all – in fact I find my name gay too. PC gone wild!

@Stephanie

For all those people who genuinely have the welfare of children at heart, not for those who would manufacture a child in a rented womb, or adopt to have the right accessory and “respectability”.

@maurice, all joking aside. What does it matter who brings up a child as long as he/she is cared for, protected and loved?! Traditional families of one mother, one father and 2.5 kids are not the standard family anymore. That went when teenage girls were having babies without wanting them, lads abandoning families, people having babies as careers (children’s allowance). The children arguement doesn’t stand. INFACT, you could say a gay couple actively seek to give a loving home to a child as it can’t be the outcome of a drunken hook up and if that means asking a friend or surrogate to have my baby, well then I’ll let you know when I’m ready to raise a child.

There’s no point asking these characters to explain their opposition to marriage equality. They know they can’t do it without admitting their own prejudices or religious bases and they know that neither is generally accepted as reasonable argument in 2012. But they will still assert their opposition without explaining it in the desperate hope that it might just sway the some of the overwhelming public support for equality over to their side.

Oh please *rolls eyes*

As for Maurice, are you dying I don’t have the welfare of children at heart? Because I have two mores who I adore and couldn’t be more protective of. The older is being raised by her Mum (completely by herself) and is turning out to be the kindest hearted little girl, she’s very creative and she’s a very thoughtful and caring child and her Mum is doing a fantastic job. Better than many married couples. The younger ( a baby still), her parents are have been together 10 years, planned her damn near down to the due date and have no plans to ever get married and they too are doing and will continue todo a fantastic job. The idea that there is right way to raise a child is absolute nonsense. My Mum is a fantastic mother but was raised completely differently to me, the same I my Dad. If you think there’s something wrong with the children f gay parents I suggest you take a look at some f the testimonials from children of gay parents lobbying for marriage equality in the states.

I you want to bring the welfare of children into this You might want to research the suicide rates among young gay people thanks to attitudes like yours. Don’t talk about child welfare when you only intend to look after the straight ones.

@Stephanie

“There were also significant, but left unreported, differences in self-esteem between children of homosexual and heterosexual parents, as well as significant but unreported differences in social and emotional difficulties experienced by children of homosexual parents.”

“Stacy and Biblarz found that lesbian mothers had a feminizing effect on their sons and a masculinizing effect on their daughters”

http://narth.com/docs/masquerades.htm

If these issues are “left unreported” how do you know about them? How are they analysed? How is their veracity measured? What about the kids raised by single/widowed parents? For example, there are plenty of situations where single women living with their own mothers successfully raise “masculine” boys and “feminine” girls and yet they are essentially raising kids in a same-sex environment. The notion that gay people live in single-sex ghettos/silos is utterly preposterous: my own son and his husband have a great number of friends and family members of both sexes and should they ever decide to have kids, those kids would have access to all kinds of healthy role models – including the wonderful young men who would be their fathers (both biological and adoptive). Your hand-wringing is bogus, Maurice, and I happily call you on it.

Maurice Kiely’s document link does not work but I went to the Narth website and found this enlightend Mission Statement:

“NARTH MISSION STATEMENT
We respect the right of all individuals to choose their own destiny. NARTH is a professional, scientific organization that offers hope to those who struggle with unwanted homosexuality. As an organization, we disseminate educational information, conduct and collect scientific research, promote effective therapeutic treatment, and provide referrals to those who seek our assistance.

NARTH upholds the rights of individuals with unwanted homosexual attraction to receive effective psychological care and the right of professionals to offer that care. We welcome the participation of all individuals who will join us in the pursuit of these goals.”

They’re basically one of those “ex-gay” crackpot organisations who purpote to “cure” people of their homosexuality. Any respect I might have had for your, Maurice, just drained away.

Oh please, show me an impartial source with a proper scientific study and then we’ll chat.

Also apologies for the ridiculous number of typos above, that’s what happens when you angrily type a comment on your phone just after you’ve woken up.

Seems to happen all the time on the journal and they come back with an excuse that’s pretty crap considering the comments that get left up. There’s quite a lot gone on this thread though,kinda thinking it’s pointless writing anything here anymore.