A lot of poorly informed people here. He was led up the garden path, factual. Read the Sunday papers. He guaranteed he’d clear his debts in full but classic paddy sly ball couldn’t have that. What is worrying is the amount of educated people that see Mr. Quinn as a gangster. There have been some serious beauties that never had even the smallest intention paying anyone, but not here.

Martin, the only way he could afford to pay his debts was by continuing to run his insurance business illegally, ie. without sufficient reserves to meet the cost of claims.

Mattoid,
Quinn put forward a perfectly viable plan on how he proposed to pay back all of the debt within 7 years. Anglo ignored this because they knew there was great money to be made in the insurance companies, group companies etc. The administrators came in and too wages that would knock you over. A lot of people have made HUGE money from the takeover of Quinn’s Irish assets. Sean saw that they were taking everything off him and that there was no way he could pay back the debt without any assets. He disputed owing the 2.3bn, and had already given them 450+ millions worth of property, business etc. He believes that he doesn’t owe the 2.3bn and wants the courts to decide this. However, as he put it on radio today ‘Anglo put cart before the horse’ and went ahead to take what is not proven to be theres. So he moved assets, yes, however Anglo have not proven that they are entitled to them. The don’t want this case against them getting to court. They want to make sure that Quinn’s money runs out long before it hits the courtroom. They’ve spent millions and millions in their pursuit of him already. Let the courts decide who owns them before jailing people etc..

Sorry YF not buying it. And Mr. Justis Peter Kelly is not either.

*Justice* doh!

@YF
His “perfectly viable plan” involved, as I said, continuing to operate his insurance business illegally.
Perfectly viable if you believe the law doesn’t apply to you I suppose…

mattoid,
And what about the fact that VHI were running their company without the proper reserves either….double standards?

Mattoid, where are you getting this crap from? The reserves were to be brought back up as part of the Quinn/ Anglo plan, involving a cash injection of less than a third of what was ultimately provided under the plan that was ultimately implemented, and to be paid back over 7 years.
What part of the plan involved illegal trading? Or did you perhaps just make that up?

Off the 100 plus comments on this article this is the best! It’s been along time since i’ve heard Pats Neary’s name mentioned and it’s not even in an article written by a journalist! I would be very interested in an article written by thejournal.ie to inform us on where Pat is now and what he’s doing. I wonder has he spent his €600,000 plus “golden handshake” yet!?

Paid,
That isn’t fair. He said he would pay the full 2.8 billion back at the very beginning. He didn’t mention that the loans were made illegally. Anglo took all means to pay away from him when they wouldn’t accept the 7 year plan he submitted. This plan was viable, and was passed by the Deutsche Bank.

Arrogant? I think not. This man has been hunted down like a wild animal. It’s a wonder that this stressful witch hunt hasn’t left him with ill health.

If he was “hunted down like a wild animal” he’d most likely be dead by now.

It’s a metaphor… get with the programme my friend. You seem to think that this ridiculous procedure is a game.

I know it’s a metaphor, but it’s an emotive and inaccurate one which seems to suggest that the law is not for the likes of Mr Quinn.

Not enough words in the English language??? Good point Patrick!!!! Maybe ask the IRBC bosses….They are all from England…

Will someone please think of the children

His novel defence is akin to an armed robber saying that he shouldn’t be jailed whilst there are still murderers out there who haven’t been caught yet!

The judge found against Quinn. What the rest of them may have done is irrelevant.

He admitted taking some of his money out of Anglo’s reach. These guys owe 40 billion, have paid themselves mad money (1000 quid an hour), have got rid of local sponsorship eg GAA (they are not Irish so they wouldnt understand the importance of the community in Irish business), and have antagonised suppliers to the companies they are ‘running’, And Sean took money out of their reach???? How could he??

I’m sorry Charlie, he’s a common criminal, a thief. He has admitted this on radio and to add insult to injury he has also stated that he is glad to have committed this crime. His statement may incriminate the rest of his family, so now they will also quite rightly go to jail. I now await him ratting all his buddies out, and because we now are run from Germany there is some chance of this large group of fraudsters and criminals being held accountable. I’m delighted to see an end to their sleazy behaviour.

He has paid Anglo hundreds of millions back but Anglo happen to forget to mention that point in their vendetta….

Sorry meant to say Drumm not Dunne.

Quinn can be put in jail for civil contempt of court, it’s not a criminal matter and he has already been found in contempt. If criminal charges are brought against him I suspect they will be closed. Seanie Fitz has been charged with criminal offences which are before the court which is why comments are closed on his.

Yes I find it hilarious that Anglo/IRBC are now the heroes. They only owe 40 billion after all….But good plan at shifting the blame. Quinn Oh so Bad! Anglo OH so Good! ???????

Sean Quinn tried to take over this bank he had no problems with it then..!

Wether you’re right or not, none of it changes the fact that the law requires him to pay his debts.

That’s capitalism. He made his fortune through capitalism so he can lose it through capitalism. One of the first thing a secondary school student learns in business studies is about risk. When you invest money you do it at a risk. You can make money or lose money. Unfortunately for Quinn his risk was bad so he needs to pay.

I would’ve done my own homework first, before investing in the company, never mind what the biggest accountancy firms in the world said

Eilish, take it back a step further – the money he invested wasn’t his to spend. He was legally obliged to maintain sufficient reserves to meet the cost of insurance claims. He flouted the law, took a huge gamble and the authorities quite rightly called him on it.

Well said Eilish! Let’s hope he does stick with it. It’s the very last thing Anglo want. They’ve thrown every obstacle in the book in his way, in hope the case he’s bringing against them doesn’t make the courtroom. Shame on you Anglo. Let Sean have his say. Prove that you are entitled to the assets before you decide to bring men to court over the movement of them! You go Sean!

he was greedy, he lost a bet on it. he should pay for his mistake

Eilish it’s not the same institution running after him you foolish girl! It’s us the taxpayers because that institution is now OURS. Whatever Anglo sold to Quinn he didn’t have the money in the first place. He siphoned that off the Company which was fraud. This guy is an unmitigated rogue who began to believe he could do no wrong and now he wants to steal our money to live in a lifestyle to which he has become accustomed!

Eilish He did NOT buy shares. He had CFD ie he agreed to buy the shares at a certain price, but only pay 10% or so at that time, and possibly sell them at the same time if the price was right so making a profit. When price started to go away from him he had to come up with the difference so he borrowed it and agreed to buy more. Classic double up to make up.

@doesnotcompute – how exactly would you do this homework? Using the fraudulent accounts? Investors are entitled to be protected as well as the public.
@maura – he DID buy shares as well as CFDs.

There’s a thing in business called due diligence. Before doing a deal that big you send in your team of lawyers and forensic accountants to rifle through the books. You don’t just do this to protect yourself, you also do it because when you find any problems you can then use them as a bargaining chip to haggle down the price. It is not that much different from buying a second hand car- it’s in your interests to find faults with it to get a better man gain.

But Quinns style of business was never about doing due diligence. He is more the type of old style guy who would decide if you’re honest by looking you up and down. That doesn’t cut the mustard when the consequences are €2.3bn. And because he didn’t do his due diligence he got sold a pig in a poke over the telephone by Sean Fitzpatrick. The very fact an Anglo employee got his niece to sign a €79m document in a students union bar proves that the whole thing was done at breakneck speed. That suggests that Quinn thought the share price was going to go up, not down. He wanted to get it done asap before the share price rose. But if he had of done his due diligence then his team would have come back and told him to avoid Anglo like the plague.

Also don’t forget that Quinn refused to hire actuaries in his insurance business, citing them as too expensive. An actuary is the cornerstone of the insurance business, they use complex quantitative analysis to assess and evaluate risk which then informs the underwriters how to price the policy, T&C’s, etc so the insurance business isn’t left exposed if a rake of claims come in simultaneously. If you don’t employ actuaries then you’re not an insurance company, you’re a bookie who makes up odds on the fly and hopes for the best. And that is how Quinn operated, basically as a gambler. His gambling instincts transferred from insurance to banking deals and this deal was the one that was one step too far.

Absolutely not. Due diligence refers to analysis undertaken in a merger or takeover. Ordinary shareholders (even of the size of Quinn) are not privy to the intricate details that would be provided in a due diligence process. Analysing publicly available information does not constitute due diligence.
Instead they must rely on information provided by the company and it’s Auditors. There is no scope for an ordinary shareholder to just demand additional information and rifle through the books in any more detail those provided by the audited accounts and company reports.
So to say Quinn should have just magic-ed up additional info, under the assumption the audited accounts were fraudulent, is not only unrealistic, it would have been impossible. And to say because you feel he was wreckless, it’s fair to assume he wouldn’t have used the valid information if it was available is typically presumptive of the opinions in some of these comments.
You’re also wrong on Anglo sending someone down to Galway for Quinn’s daughter to sign guarantees. This was done much later than the investments were made, and for the sole purpose of giving ANglo additional leverage over the Quinn family when the shares were tanking. It wasn’t to take advantage of an expected share price burst. The Quinn family went along with Anglo, but should have jsut refused.Their paying the price for going along with Anglo in more ways than just the investment.

“I’m not the easiest man to advise” so says the man himself above. He went into it with his eyes full of dollar signs. Greed, ego and hubris are what made him, and the very things that destroyed him.

Where in any report about Sean Quinn does it say he refused to pay his loans. It does say however that Sean Quinn has in the past said he could have his loans paid back in 7 years but no it was not good enough for most people and it seems that most just wanted to destroy the Quinn group completely So congrats to all who have ridiculed possibly the most successful employer in Ireland he gained such respect from his employees.

You’ve been drinking again Bernadette, haven’t you?!

You’ve been on the sherry again Bernadette, haven’t you!? What’s with all these mammies coming out in defence of Quinn anyway?

Y.F., what part of Anglo no longer exists don’t you get? Quinn is being chased by the IRBC, a company set up to achieve the maximum return for the Irish citizen. It is they we champion and they’re doing a pretty good job on our behalf. This Anglo are now jerks argument is null and void…

IRBC?

@Gagsy – maybe Bertie Ahern should change his name to Berty Bassett and then he’d be a great chap who never did anything wrong.

I meant @O’Reilly

O Reilly, You champion IRBC? You champion the fact that we pay them 1000 euro an hour (MC Killop and Co). You champion the fact that the top guys of IRBC have paid themselves 400 million in 27 months? You champion the fact that they spend hundreds of millions of tax payers money on legal teams so that Quinn cannot bring their case against them?????

I couldn’t agree with you more. And what’s more pathetic is everyone of the 114 people that have given you the thumbs down so far would do the exact same. Be it moving 20k here or there or putting the house in the brothers name or whatever. Hypocrites.

like not paying the bookies when you lose a bet. criminals!

Exactly , if the baliffs were coming in to your home, you would be packing up valuables the night before. Was always a supporter of Quinns, have relatives in that part of country and was prob influenced by their views, however even I am shocked at what has come out in the last week.
1) Guarentees and sharepledges were signed 6 months after money was lent to support shares. Correct me if Im wrong but is this not the same as me going into paddy powers now and placing a bet on Euro 2012, spain to win when the result is known?
2) The youngest signed signed a 1 page document provided by Anglo at 19 in the students union in Galway. For €79 million
3) Anglo tried to get the Quinns to sign retrospective legal advice 6 months after the fact.
Now I am not a conspiracy theorist under normal circumstances but something here stinks to high heaven. Anglo, under the control of the government, aided and abetted by the media, are destroying this family to protect who /what ? Previous Government/ Financial Regulator/ Irelands business reputation ? Never has a government agency fought a family so hard, you have to wonder why ? Red thumb away.

You’re right Fiona.
I too, have never lived in a world of vendetta’s, cover-ups, propaganda and witch-hunting but there’s something VERY wrong with the way this whole thing is playing out. Let the truth come out…

@Fiona
To protect the taxpayer.

They do but so do people like him, who is paying for all the mess they got us in? That’s right the tax payer.

And therefore you should go to Jail too Dean, that is of course if your not a bored troll , Dean Pritchard, how are all the faculty @ Harrison University anyway?

Stop flirting with me Norgay. I’m entitled to my opinion on this public forum…

Dean

Will you ever stop talking crap.

Red thumb TROLL Green Thumb DELUDED FOOL

And I mean “primarily the Anglo Bankers with the white collars”

Turlough if he was that benevolent he wouldnt have risked all their jobs on such a high risk adventure as trying to own a bank. Sean Quinn has spent his life telling people who have run industries for many many years that they havent a clue, that he can run them better. Quarrying, hotels, insurance and banking. The sheer arrogance of the man has been what has brought him down. Failures to heed the rules of the insurance industry placed him in an advantageous position to build up the vehicle that he hoped would pay off his debts. Had he had to play on a level playing field with everyone else he wouldnt have had that behind him. I dont understand peoples need to defend this man. His actions are reprehensible, but we are the ones who are going to end up paying the bill. of course the rest of the muppets who brought the country down also need to be dealth with, but thats for a different day. Sean Quinn and his family deserve nothing from us, pity, defending or bailout. Its baffling that people seek to protect his actions.

Mr McGivney, Anglo Irish Bank created 1,000′s of jobs for people during the boom too. Both gamblers, both lost, and all those 1,000′s of jobs disappeared along with them. It was a mistake to bailout Anglo, but we don’t have to bailout Quinn just cos he gave your ma a job or he goes to mass every Sunday.

guilty, none the less.

The same way you or I don’t know if the favourite in the 3:15 at leopardstown has a dodgy leg or not.

Anglo were unaware that Quinn was amassing such a large stake in the bank because it was done through indirect means such as CFDs. When Fitzpatrick and Drumm found out they were horrified as it had the potential to do serious damage to the share value; if the market got wind of a large holding in the hands of one person they would start dumping the shares because of the danger Quinn himself would offload them, in turn devaluing the shares (basically a game of chicken except the winner panics first!). The whole maple 10 and Quinn 6 fiasco was an attempt (most likely illegally, that’s before the courts at the moment) to get out of this situation and unwind Quinn’s holdings. Although Anglo certainly misstated the performance of the bank they did not encourage Quinn to buy so many share, quite the opposite. He took a massive, stupid gamble for which he is too arrogant to accept responsibility and now we are all paying for it. Certainly the heads of Anglo would be before the courts, and some of them are already, but that in no way exonerates Sean Quinn. If he really feels Anglo people should be prosecuted he should contact the Gardai abd give evidence

@Noddy. The race card for the 3.15 at Leopardstown won’t have reports from teams of regulated entities confirming that the horse’s leg is 100%. And if they did, you’d probably feel justified in saving some of the stake from the bookie

What is your agenda, who are you working for?

Eilish where did Sean…your pal get the money to buy the shares in Anglo?…from his own company? It wasn’t his!

Eilish, Quinn amassed his shares using money taken from his insurance company illegally. He clearly got hooked on the notion of controlling a large bank. All this done without the knowledge of Anglo execs. When they did realise the extent of his stake, that’s when the shit hit the fan. But he got that far all on his own. Looks to have been a case if working boy done good – on top of the world ma – until it all came crashing down…

Eilish, what exactly is your agenda here? Do you accept or not the law of the land? The Quinns are paying top dollar for legal defence so I don’t get this “mother’s union” of voices suddenly jumping to defend them. What do you make of the convicts wife working as a part-time receptionist at Joe Duffy motors while “earning” 300K from a Ukranian company. They’re an underhand, ignorant bunch who shat in their own nest when greed got the better of them.

Anglo were crooks and broke all sorts of company law but there is whether people like it or not there is a case to be made that this was market manipulation in which case Sean Quinn may be entitled to compensation but this shall be for the courts to decide. I for one wouldn’t be shocked if he won the case against Anglo.
But Eilish this bit;
“If Anglo hadn’t cooked the books as they did nothing much would have gone wrong with the share value”
If you honestly believe this then you are living in a fantasy land, Anglo would be bankrupt not because of sean quinn and cooking the books, Anglo is bankrupt because its business model in the long run was deeply flawed and relied far to heavily on property investment in overheated markets.
AIB and BOI didnt cook the books ( that we know of) yet they went bust too.

Sorry,Eileesh,but it’s patently and painfully obvious that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Eilish, just go away , Sean Quinn and family are crook’s. End of.

This notion that Quinn took money from his own companies to buy the Anglo shares is nonsense. He used share guarantees as collateral, which the Irish financial regulator approved. Elderfield later disagreed on who would have first call on the guarantees, but this case again has not been heard. Elderfield took 3 days to make the decision to toust Quinn and disallowed him his right to contest – by any stretch this was an exceptionally rash move and unheard of for a regulator to make such a dramatic move without any due diligence completed.
It’s very easy to emotively say “He stole insurees money in investing in Anglo” but that’s grossly inaccurate.

Good point Theresa ?? End of what exactly?

Eilish thats not really accurate,
1. They were in shock not because they’d have to ” give full disclosure of the books” they were in shock because they thought worst case scenario he might only hold 10% of Anglo, the fact that he had in excess of 20% through cfd’s and the ramifications for the Anglo share price was what shocked them.
2. Your second point makes no sense who is this person “looking after the shares of Anglo” “to alert the CEO”? Quinn built up most of his shareholding through CFD’s which do not have to be disclosed to the market or registered anywhere. No one but Quinn and his advisors could have known he was doing this and to the extent he was.
closing down any further share issue would have done nothing either as the volume of shares the market was already so high.

Then explain to me what a CFD has to do with running an insurance company, or a packaging company, or any other type of business? The man gambled his fortune and lost. Simple as that.

Eilish stop deluding yourself!

Don’t you think it is unfair that Quinn is hiding assets from the taxpayer?

You have contributed about 10% of the posts on this thread and you have posted on every Quinn related article I’ve seen. Seems to me you do have an agenda, otherwise I find it odd that you’d champion the cause of a multi-billionaire who gambled his fortune, lost it, destroyed what he built, destroyed the livelihoods of his employees and now wants to renege on his loans so the tax-payer will foot the bill for him and his brood. Strange sort of underdog you’re supporting ther Ailish. Quinn’s not starving at the side of the road you know.

Clive ,
There’s a bitchiness in your tone that is not needed…talking about comments above. I don’t think you’re seeing the full picture. Quinn was happy to pay back his debt and put forward a perfectly viable plan that was approved, however Anglo wanted him gone.Why did they not want to go with the 7 yr. plan? I believe you could call this a vendetta against Quinn as they seem to have been more interested in getting rid of him than getting the debts paid off. NOW their PR campaign is to make everyone think that they’re trying to retrieve assets, as best they can. There is no mention of this plan. He did not renege on his loans….he was robbed of the opportunity to repay them. You go with Anglo Clive……and all the propaganda!

he made the decision to gamble his money, nobody put a gun to his and told him to invest in anglo, all we ask now is that he pay the money he owes. he refuses so he should be in prison. no argument will change these facts!

Eilish, he signed the loan agreement. He knew what the money was going to be used for – propping up the share price. Who would have benifited from this – he would off because of all the shares he had. Why did he not shout foul then instead of waiting till now, because it did not work. The judge was spot on in what he said.

‘First Day’? As in the first day he started to bulid up his very successful businesses resulting in thousands of jobs, paying thousands of mortgages???