The treaty states

If the administration firmly believed that they are right, they would have put the legislation for the ESM treaty, which has already been drawn up, before the house for ratification untill after Thursdays referendum.

The AG recommended a referendum be ran and the government agreed with her advice. You’re talking absolute nonsense.

The only reason they put it ot the AG was because President Higgins told them that if they didnt he would!!! The No camp dont suffer with short term memory loss.

Thats crap David and you know it. The Gov tried to have the treaty worded so as to avoid a referendum in the first place.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/european-treaty-2012/182527-german-minister-says-fiscal-compact-designed-avoid-irish-referendum.html
Gilmore denied this but denials by “labours way of frankfurts way” Gilmore don’t hold much water anymore.
Vote NO

Ann that may be, but they certainly suffer from medium- long term memory loss.

Not at all Jennifer, there is nothing wrong with the NO sides medium to long term memory either. I dont forget what FG tried to do to this country 30 and again 20 years ago. Doubt you were even around then. Why do you think they have NEVER in the history of the state had back to back administrations. I have not nor would I ever vote for either FG or Lab because thankfully my memory serves me well.

“Why do you think they have NEVER in the history of the state had back to back administrations.”

Em, probably because Fianna Fail tend to make fancier promises. At least that’s worked out well.

Nobody really wants me to rehash EVERY single promise made by Fine “not one more red cent” Gael, or Eamonn “Frankfurts Way” Gilmore. They have never held succesive governments because they are completely incompetent and not fit to determine what is in the best interests of the Irish State ie we the people.

Ann if you are basing single or double terms in government as the determining factor as to a party’s competence to running the country in the best interests of the state than that just proves definitively Sinn Féin do not have it.

As regards rehashing pre-election promises of any party. A part of me, (the cutting off my nose to spite my own face side) would actually love to see SF in power. They haven’t a hope in hell of following through on any of the opposition nonsense they peddle. God we could really go to town on them then. But then “told you so” would be small condolences in that instance.

Jennifer

up until fairly recently SF did not have enough members to make up a full party ergo they havent had the opportunity to prove themselves. Given you dont have a degree in economics I doubt that your assumption that their fiscal policies wouldnt stand up are not based on true science but pure conjecture.

You should check out bondwatch and see how much money this administration has handed out already to both secure and unsecured bondholders including the 2.25 billion that was handed out yesterday. But hey, whats 200 billion between friends.

Sarah,
I think Constantin.com’s has lost all his credibility once his links to Declan Ganley’s company was established… Gone very quiet Mr .com is all of a sudden.

Oh and by the way I do believe David McWillams was the one who advided the late Brian L….Not exactly very credible either and also gone very quite since the documentry exposing his advise..

Declan, his links to Ganley’s business were established over a year ago. Do try to keep up.

http://jrnl.ie/134534

Mart, could care less when it was established….its a conflict of interest for both him and mr .com….. Its only really got any media focus in the last week of so… Actually it did not get enough coverage..

Declan, both men have stated that they do not profit from any instability in Europe as their company does not deal in short selling. If this was untrue I guarantee you that your muckraking cohorts in fine gael would have published the info.

Are you calling these men liars?

Its a conflict of interest, whatever way you dress it up……..
On a personal level I would not trust Mr Ganly or Mr.Com for a single second..

In what way is it a conflict of interest? If it is then so is Noonan calling for a Yes vote, as he’s a holder of German bonds. Hell, the entire Irish government have a conflict of interest.. look at who they employ to advise them on financial matters. Hint – it’s the people that are likely to benefit most from any advice they give.

Declan you are aware that until recently your esteemed minister of Finance held German bonds. Would you consider that a conflict of interest as well considering he was allegedly negating with the EU/ECB on Ireland’s behalf?

On McWilliams I think you might find he gave BL his opinion that he should copy the Swedish banking policy of 1992. To preserve your own credibility maybe you should stick to the facts?

@ Declan. You’re a strange fellow indeed. Let me get this right. It is not OK to insult the Taoiseach’s name (calling Enda by the name Edna; you wrote the following – “Surely if the treaty is passed then Enda (Whats with name insult by the way?) has run an effective campaign” – in response to Ann Reddin calling the Taoiseach Edna), yet you find it perfectly OK to insult Constantin Gurdgiev by, and I quote, labelling him as “Constantin.com”? You then go on to call him “Mr .com”. Do you not have any moral standard, or is it one set of rules for you and another set of rules for those who disagree with you?

Again Declan you suffer with selective recollection. David McW suggested that Brian Lenihan should gaurantee deposits up the 100, 000 euros solely to protect the Irish citizen. McWilliams most certainly did not intend for his suggestion of guaranteeing deposits to cover bad banks with toxic loans and assets.

Let’s not forget that David McWilliams advocated a bank guarantee in the weeks before the government did so back in 2008. He now says that if he knew then what he knew now he wouldn’t have done so, but isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing.

@Anne Reddin. You are completely wrong about what David McWilliams said. He wanted a full guarantee for all depositers and creditors. Here is the relevant quote for his article dated 28th September 2008, just a few days before the government brought in the Bank Guarantee.

“The only option is to guarantee 100 per cent of all depositors/creditors in the Irish banking system. This guarantee does not extend to shareholders who will have to live with the losses they have suffered. However, it applies to everyone else.”

This is the link to the article in question – http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2008/09/28/state-guarantees-can-avert-depression

Creditors by the way in this case would include the bondholders, all of them.

You “might” get a definitive answer? Let me guess, if the court makes a ruling you agree with, it’ll be a definitive answer; if not it’s more lies and blackmail, right?

There are many excellent arguments for voting No, but it really seems to me the biggest liability to the No campaign are the No campaigners themselves.

I think the No Campaigners are just so filled with the belief that this treaty is wrong . It is so wrong .. in so many ways.

I am still waiting for Gerry Adams and his “former” organisation to explain the whereabouts of Jean McConville.
He is implicated in the Belfast Tapes by his colleague in arms Delors Price.
We will see how much he enjoys being held to account when his day in court comes around.

Jenifer, what does that have to do with this treaty?…absolutely nothing. More mudslinging by the yes men as per usual

*women Joe. In case the name and photo were not clues enough.

You might also note I never said anything about the Treaty Joe, but nice attempt at taking a swipe at the “yes” side.

Fagan’s said it is great to see organisations held to account. I happen to think it is time Gerry Adams and his “former” organisation were held to account. That is all.

But read what you like. Far be it from me to disrupt your anti Yes campaign.

Jen
given that this thread has to do with the referendum and article 136, your initial comment about Jean McConville is off topic. It would appear that Jean McConville is something you throw out every time it looks like your yes men are being held to account.

Ann, given Fagan’s point was about organisations being held to account and having to explain themselves. I think my comment was perfectly justifiable.

As for Jean McConville being brought up, I feel it is always worth reminding people in the midst of an SF love in of their dubious past. All the more so given NO side’s desire to up haul slogans like “Yes to Lisbon, Yes to Jobs” at every opportunity. I happen to think in comparison to unmarked graves, Yes to Lisbon, or any number of other NO lookbacks are pretty pedestrian complaints.

Further to that Jen, given that you are now living in Washington which I am assuming is a lifetsyle cholice – what does the referendum have to do with you. You’re not living here and wont be living with the austerity this government wants to weigh us down with.

many apologies jenifer ”more muslinging by the yes side as usual” is that better? Thats right you never said anything about the treaty. strange as this thread is about sinn fein challenging the govt about THE ESM and THE TREATY. yet you wave the old ” IRA” argument about like it somehow defeats everything sinn fein attempt to do now days? would you rather they were out bombing people still? What with the attempts to hand over our sovereignity i dare say if that were the case some of those blueshirts in leinster house would be pushing up daisies by now.

Ann never make assumptions. They are almost always wrong.

1. If you are going to stalk people. Make sure you amass all the facts before you attempt to undermine their position.

2. Even if I did still live in Washington (which was not a “lifestyle” choice, unless by “lifestyle” you mean working really hard to gain invaluable experience) I would still be an Irish citizen.

3. Ergo my final point. Are you saying that Irish citizens abroad have no say in the direction of their country vis-a-vis Referendums? That is a pretty serious position to take in light of all the Irish abroad.

Jennifer,
Some excellent points. Dont worry about the abuse as its standard fare when you speak with logic…
D

* “mudslinging” & “Jennifer”, Joe.

I actually think it is hilarious. The NO side can scream about, in no particular order;
Emigration on every article about job creation.
Can scream about the bank bailouts on pretty every article.
Can scream about household/ water charges/ septic tanks on pretty much everyother (and so on)
ON EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE.
Even though all of these commenced, or in the case of the latter two, were agreed BEFORE Fine Gael came to power.
But remind anyone of SF’s ACTUAL murderous, and very recent, past, the only thing you can come up how I am waving the old IRA argument, or when really struggling, start referring to the 1930s Blueshirts… It is enough to make me actually laugh.

Most of our emigrants today are out of the country thanks to your parties continuation of FF policies and I would imagine that if this treaty is passed, they will only ever put their feet on Irish soil again for a short visit to their families back here. Are people who have emigrated entitled to vote in referendums?. And I find it very sad that you were not in a position to gain your valuable experience at home in your own country.

Oh no….you criticised my spelling. That means im wrong about all these issues. But seriously, i used ‘blueshirt’ in an argument because you used IRA in yours. If you want to be immature and call sinn fein terrorists ,then i will call FG fascists. Whichever is more recent has NO bearing on the ISSUES at hand here. And did i mention septic tank charges, immigrants or any of those points you brought up there? No. I did not. You were the person who started using unrelated issues for your arguiment. And then try to accuse others of doing so after i gave you the idea. Pathetic.

Thanks Declan, I appreciate that!
And don’t worry I am used to the abuse, though it is definitely why people in the YES camp (in the main) choose to stay silent.
I, on the other hand, must be some kind of masochist ;-)

Ann, perhaps you missed my previous point. I live and work in Dublin, so the sympathy is unnecessary! I spent time working in DC.because that is the only place you can do what I was doing. Not because I needed to emigrate. But thanks for the sentiment.

Also, FG nor FF are “my parties”. I am not in a party, and never have been. So no policies are those continuations of “my party”.

To be fair to FG, Gen. Eoin O’Duffy and his Blueshirt cohorts are long dead. Adams and McGuinness on the other hand are very much alive and involved. Think that makes it very much more relevant in terms of modern politics. However, both still have nothing to do directly with this treaty. What’s more to the point is SF constantly mis-quoting or selectively quoting people and text in treaty documents to try to further their agenda falsely. Míchéal Martin made a fool of Joe Higgins on Prime Time when he went on about the ESM funding by selective text quoting. SF did this in this campaign previously by mis/selective-quoting various economists that actually support the treaty. Tired and desperate attempt again to pull the wool over peoples eyes. The article 136 and its implications are outlined here: http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0430/guide-to-the-eu-fiscal-treaty.html
Plain English, just not the message SF want to here. My question: why, if they felt so strongly on this, did the wait until the day before the media moratorium to challenge it? ie: the last day they could announce they were challenging without us being able to hear the result before people go to the polls???

Avarus Animus. Great to have you join the debate, what a thoroughly insightful a profound comment. Oh wait, that’s just the disgustingly sexist slur of someone hiding behind a faceless identity. See a girl say something you don’t like, what to do, what to do. Oh I have it! Slag her appearance. Been the last reserve of every stupid, pig headed misogynist since forever.

Even when compared to the barrel scrapping standard of the usual abuse on these threads, congratulations, you have found a new low. Congratulations for associating the NO side with your pig ignorant sexism. Just another reason to dismiss their arguments.

Ok folks……..just been fraped……..my brother is an ar*ehole!!!! Apologies to anyone who had anything said to them…..especially Jennifer Prior, be sure to know he is going to get a serious kick in the arse!!I left my laptop open as I was about to comment and he ran a muck (on facebook too!!) Really sorry!!Could all comments made in the last 30 minutes under my name be taken down please???????

Eoin, i think its a matter of oppinion wether blueshirts are long dead or not….id say a good 60 percent of this country would say they are alive and kicking in FG.

Loving your work Jennifer

Dont you mean the Northern Bank’s money :-)

declan can u prove that sf had any involvment in the northen bank job or r ya jus a sad person wit little else to do except put others down

Ah now…I am not the sad person on here… There is a army who spendf the whole day and night trailing through comments…
It was kinda meant as a joke…No evidence at all Philip. People can make up their own minds on that one…

Declan loves to make unsubstantiated comments about sinn feins alleged involvement in a bank robbery, while ignoring the fact that his own party, fine gael, yesterday robbed us all of 2.5 billion and handed it to a bank.

Its up to people to make up their own minds on the Northern Banks… and where the money went… Now that would be a good question for a referendum :-)

A member of fine gael looking for a referendum? Careful declan, leo might find out.

@Declan- think you know my answer to that one! Glad to see you back in flying form Declan, winding up unsuspecting SF supporters…you seemed a bit quieter than usual of late, were you on holidays or something!

im still waiting on an answer from the yes side regarding my above question

The same place as if we vote yes. Don’t forget we have to contribute 11 billion to this fund, that we don’t have and will have to borrow to fund it and pay interest on. If Spain go tits up when we need to access this find the pot will be empty. We will then have to go to the IMF. I say cut out the middle man and save ourselves 11 billion

Even weirder is the idea that Greece will have to contribute €19 billion to this fund if the full €500 billion is required. Never mind the amounts Italy and Spain who’s cost of borrowing is over 6% on the market at the moment have to produce. The ESM unless Germany and some of the Nordic states pony up big time will be unworkable because the states that may require funding are expected to contribute to the fund. Where is that money going to come from?

Lucinda Creighton was on V Brown last night and she could not answer that question either. So much for looking at and examining all possibilities by the government.

quote-”lapdogs to “insert slur”", the highest level of hypocrisy from a supporter of a party whose only two policies are 1.lick as deep as possible up the ar@e of europe no matter the cost to our society and 2. it doesnt matter how valid any question the opposition ask, just sling mud, thats what the people want to hear!

Revolting, I am yet to see any supporter of the Treaty, on this page or any other, make their points without someone responding by referring to Treaty supporter as “biased”, “a lapdog”, “a party supporter” as “being paid” or as having some “vested interest”. (or some variation thereof)

I stand by my point.

And it hasn’t taken them long to quash parts of their application. Court immediately rejecting Sinn Féin’s fantasy idea that we can vote no and then wriggle our way into the ESM anyway.

The ONLY way to get access to the ESM fund is through a YES vote.

if we cannot access the ESM can we get our €11,145,400,000 back?

Cathal we havent given it to them yet as the ESM is not yet in existence. Vote NO and we wont have to give it to them at all.

You FF/FG lot are very panicky today.

They have been given their orders and are out in force today!!

Hillarious, given the Shinner bots who pervade this thread and others on Journal. “People in glasshouses…” my dear. And before you ask, I’m not a member of any political party!

There is no such undermining going on here – that’s what the courts are there for you clown.

Correct and right. Typical attempts at sabotage and subterfuge. Absolutely no respect for the law. They never had.

Saorise the courts are not for desperate last ditch attempts to drum up support for your campaigns. That is all this is.

There is. Sinn Féin can’t accept the judgment of a high court judge who heads up the commission. It’s bizarre that they trust another judge to take their case….

Where you all saying they (SF) had no regard for the law when they forced the last government into holding a by election via the courts?

If the High Court accept they may have a point they will hear it if they don’t accept there is a case to answer then they will refuse. Democracy in action I would have thought.

Jennifer…who put you in charge of what the courts are for?

Joe that comment is childish to the extreme, akin to the “who made you King of the Universe” style of debating favoured by 7 year olds.

Rather I was merely responding to a comment that attempted to justify this shameless attempt at promotion as “what the courts are for”. I tend to disagree. But I await the verdict of the courts. Well await for it, and then for the inevitable, “that’s because they are biased/ lapdogs/ establishment/ vested interests/ pro Germany” or however the naysayers decide to frame it.

David, you (as a party insider) might be able to shed some light on a rumour I happened upon this morning.
The claim is that the Troika have lost patience with the Croke Park Deal and the reason for the urgency with this referendum is that the government know they will not get it passed at the end of the summer when the public sector will be out screaming for blood.
The more I thought about it. The more it made sense.
Why the urgency with this referendum? Shane Ross reckons the end of the year would do.
IBEC & ISME are all gungho for it.
The Troika delivered there gloomiest yet diplomatic assessment of Irelands debt sustainability.
The ECB have made no bones in the past about linking the inflated salaries of our public servants to any talks on debt restructuring.
Any view?

Jennifer ““who made you King of the Universe” style of debating favoured by 7 year olds.” is that the same school for debate Enda “the great debater” Kenny attended?

Jenifer I used that style of argument because you attempted to tell us what the courts are not for…that is, things that you dont agree with.

@Sean. Ur saying Yes or No means the end of the Croke Park Aggrandizement? Music to my ears and necessary if we’re to turn this country around. I could never understand how the got the first bailout without scrapping this

Givent that convictions and decisions can be overturned by appeal proves that judges often disagree with each other over the interpretation of the law.

Scrap, the speculation is that the government must scrap the Croke Park deal and this is their only chance to get the fiscal treaty home.

Just a couple of clips from an Irish times article (09/03/12)

“More than six months after Dublin first raised the matter with the ECB, the Frankfurt-based institution is pushing back heavily against persistent Irish demands for a concession to ease the cost of rescuing the former Anglo Irish Bank…….

Within the ECB, the view remains that alternative avenues are open to the Government to improve its finances, among them reductions in public sector pay and welfare entitlements…….

The argument is made that average public pay and welfare levels in Ireland are higher than the average in some of the other euro zone countries that are supporting Ireland’s bailout, among them Spain, Slovenia and Slovakia………..”

Is it possible the ECB have decided to move on debt restructuring if Croke Park goes?

It would appear the HSE has gotten trigger happy and could not wait for the polls to close.
HSE 2 – Public Sector Unions 0

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hse-gets-tough-and-sacks-two-staff-for-persistent-absenteeism-3122923.html

David comes from FG, not exactly noted as a party that has respect for the law. Big in to order and control, not so keen on Justice.

Just reading anything by david higgins would make you vote NO even if you did not care either way.

Jennifer, your comment about lack of respect for the law is mistaken. If they had no respect for the law why would they go to the courts for recourse? Your comment was clearly made without thought and is clearly wrong. And before you say it, I’m not a Shinner. Not everyone who disagrees with this parasitic hegemonic noose of a treaty is.

Paul are you having a laugh? THIS IS A PUBLICITY STUNT. Why else would they wait till the last second before the moratorium to submit their legal challenge. If they truly thought the Commission was biased in anyway, they should have marched in their the very first day. But you see that wouldn’t have worked out for them, would it? Because the High Court would have thrown it out weeks before this point. THEY ARE ALREADY THROWING IT OUT NOW. Bit by bit.

As regards your challenge to my assertion that they have no respect for the law. I am genuinely not going to bother. Just go to Google and type in Independent Monitoring Commission, for a recent example of SF demonstrating their disregard for law and legal rule.

Jennifer, my response to you wasn’t allowed for inexplicable reasons. The gist of it was that you don’t need to type in capitals as it makes you appear to be a little unhinged. I’m not type deaf so stop SHOUT TYPING at me! I agree with you that it is a publicity stunt…..but that is clearly what most campaigning is….an attempt to get the public’s attention on some issues. Politics 101. No?

Well a suit and expensive shoes didn’t stop european leaders rubbing inda on the head. I don’t reckon they’d try that with adams whether he’s in sandals, lip flops or ballet shoes.

Toorkeel, I like to wear socks and sandles, whats wrong with wearing socks and sandles, huh?,
“the clothes maketh not the man”

There is something that just doesn’t sit right with me when SF continue to use the courts to try and force through their agenda especially when its an independant judge heading the thing.

I mean was it not Sinn Fein calling for a referendum in the first place, and now that a No vote isn’t assured it looks like they are trying to pull down the referendum.

It’s starting to become a bit of a joke.

When exactly was a ‘no’ vote ever assured david, as you’re asserting.

You’ll have to do better than that.

Jesus Christ you people really read what you want to read don’t you. Perhaps Aaron T, I will spell it out for you.

I DON’T LIVE ABROAD.

I NEVER GAVE UP MY CITIZENSHIP.

I LIVE IN DUBLIN AND THIS WILL EFFECT ME!

It is actually painful engaging. I don’t know why I bother. Maybe if Ann had done her stalking correctly she would have seen that I live here. And maybe if you ACTUALLY read the exchange, instead of just attacking for the sake of it then you would know that. Easier to just attack though isn’t it? Not right, but easier. Painful person.

Sorry I did not read down further to see that the information posted about you living abroad was not correct. However Jennifer the way you talk about just attacking people must be the same as you going around accusing Gerry Adams of being involved in certain things even though officially he has not been proven yet.

Yeah and “officially” John Giligan only sold a bit of hash. Come on Aaron. The dogs in the street know what Gerry Adams has done.

His own former colleagues have come out against him. It is also only a matter of time that the Belfast tapes are released. Do you want to wait until he is officially proven guilty of ordering murders before you will call in to question anything he says or does? I don’t know about you, but anyone implicated in murder looses all credibility to me. I naturally feel compelled to question other things they support/ suggest. Especially when these other things are dreadful, and in the main (not just now) totally in-viable economic agendas.

Jennifer im voting ‘no’ because i dont want to give force of law to any ”act of bodies competant under the treaty” over our CONSTITUTION. Im a ULA supporter so i dont care about sinn fein or jerry adams, none of us are voting ‘no’ because he told us to. We are voting no because we dont want this treaty. Do you think that because one of the proponents of the ‘no’ vote has a dodgy past we should all change our minds? Why not REFUTE one of the points they have made about the esm or the treaty? You see that is how a debate actually works. Why are their economics in-viable? Please enlighten us.

Jennifer just to clear things up I’m not a supporter of Gerry Adams or his political party but you contradicted yourself in your previous comments by complaining about people attacking you personally and then personally going at Gerry Adams… I was brining you up on it because this article is about the treaty and about sinn fein not about the personal lives of some involved.

actually they didnt have to introduce the austerity measures and cut backs they were political choices as for gerry and co they are standing for irish rights if they are wrong then fair enuf but at least they are standing up for us and not jus implememting germans orders without giving it a second thought

Implementing Germans orders??? Cop yourself on…
How exactly would you have funded this country Philip??

declan i asked how the yes side wud fund the state in the case of a no vote asking me the same question doesnt constitute an answer so i`ll ask again how will the yes side fund the state in the case of a no vote

Philip,
You said they did not have to introduce cutbacks!!! please explain where we would have got the money without the cutbacks and increased taxes of the last 4 years??

i never said we didnt need cut backs its the choice of where these cut backs come from that are political choice why is it the welfare payments are cut but gov advisors get rises why is it health is cut whilst gov still sit on rediculous wages and perks

It says that they have the balls to stand up to people, and do so in the best interest of the Irish Joe. Unlike Edna who is more than happy to send his minions out to do his bidding while he cowers from the people who elected him and pay his wages. He did his best to convince people on Sunday that he wasnt reading the shite that he came out with from a teleprompter. But in all fairness to the man, it wasnt his own crap that he was spewing it was that of his special advisor and script writer.

Very classy Ann…very nice indeed.
Surely if the treaty is passed then Enda (Whats with name insult by the way?) has run an effective campaign??? SF dont represent me Ann or my interests and I am an Irish Joe….

Thats right Declan – I’m a lot classier than Edna who uses the “N” word to get a laugh and who tried to make little of men who pulled him up on his policies. Or Aine Collins who suggested that Constantin Gurdgieve should get the next plane back to Moscow. Classier than Olivia Mitchell who took 500 euros from Frank Dunlop and Anne Devitt who took a 20 000, both of whom were found to act in a corrupt manner and unbefitting to people who hold office. As for “Edna” take it up with the French newspaper that reported his name as Edna Kenny the day the big black thunder cloud descended on Ireland.

Gobsh*te Coward Kenny… hows that for a name with meaning

My god you’re not trying to bring that up again Anne. Whatever happened to the Sinn Fein mantra that things that happened in the past are not to be talked about in the present. And its ironic that you were criticising somebody for being off topic earlier on in this thread. Not above going off topic yourself though when you want to score a cheap political point.

So if Enda’s comments in 2002 are fair game I take it that Gerry Adams and other Sinn Fein people comments from the 1970/80/90s can be referred to. Or did we just draw a line a specific point determined by Sinn Fein?

Three decades? Should we applaud your party, Fianna Fail, for destroying our state in half that time Stephen?

Maybe the Provo’s should have replicated your actions, and hosted sites for FF TD’s, normal cost less than a hundered, but charged 3250 a go.

That would be the same state that your comrades in FF destroyed in a decade?

Not as desperate as Kenny & Co.Ltd are to satisfy Mario and Merkel. They proved that when they tried their hardest to sign up to the Fiscal Compact without holding a referendum.

Did your party destroy this state Stephen ???? Yes …

Well you and your clan were their first victims when they had to bring you lot to court to hold the by-elections that you refused to hold. Desperate measures from FF.

Stephen, the courts exist as a balance to the powers of the executive and as such all citizens have the right to access the courts in that regard regardless of what they may or may not beleive. To deny such access regardless of beleifs is a curb on freedom. On this occassion Sinn Fein have left it very late in the day to act and for something that is questionable but that is their right. Would one have denied that Pearse Doherty’s previous action to compell the government to hold the Donegal SW Election was not an appropirate use of the courts to bring the executive into check? I don’t think it was and I would go so far as to say that it was a good day for our democracy!

Ha ! Nice one Stephen. Shows them up for the posturing fools they are.

the independant commision looks over the fiscal treaty only not the esm treaty but nice try

I twake it Vincent, that you didn’t hear this ‘independent’ judge being interviewed on newstalk? Or, maybe you did and judging by your pic, just chose to ignore it because it suit you to.

if the courts find that this treaty is illegal then it shudn go ahead at least lets find out

ignoreland, do you have a qualification that would give credibility to this ‘purely legal perspective’?

I do True Left. I have a degree and masters in law as well as a substantial amount of legal research experience.. At most, The court wont’ look at whether the interpretation reached by the Referendum Commission was what they would consider to be correct, but whether there was a “clear disregard” for the powers conferred to them. As the interpretation reached by the Referendum Commission is reasonable by any stretch of the imagination, I can’t see them being overturned.

Also I’d like to know why SF waited 3 weeks before filing this application which now has little chance of being heard before the referendum- with the moratorium kicking in tomorrow it’s clearly just a publicity stunt.

Eh Ignoreland the High Court has been hearing it and has adjourned until 8pm this evening having asked the Referendum Commission to attend then. The good news for the Yes side is the High Court has dismissed the first part of SF’s challenge.

Wrong. They only commenced proceedings today. Why did they wait 3 weeks? If they felt so strongly about the Referendum Commission’s interpretation, why didn’t they challenge it immediately? Why did they wait until the day before the moratorium to do it? Because it’s a publicity stunt with little chance of success.

The Court has backed me up:
Judge Gerard Hogan commented that the applicant had “delayed unduly coming to court”.