2,000,000,000 could give 2,000 startup companies a loan of 1,000,000. With that, each startup could sustain 5 jobs for 2 years, on top of having decent capital for R&D. You could give them empty offices at cut rates, with shared buildings and services (secretarial, janitorial etc)

Exports, ICT, pharma, whatever.

That’s 10,000 jobs for 2 years, and a lot of R&D.

A lot of that money would be p**sed away, but ultimately you’d grow a few successful businesses out of it anyway. And hey, it’s not like the building jobs will still be there after 2 years.

Sorry Ronan, I didnt mean to say that 2 billion is not a serious amount of cash if spent on something else like you suggest, just that its not much in terms of infrastructure.

Your idea makes more sense!

You’re right, Dave…M20 Limerick to Cork is badly needed. The stretch between Banogue and Rathduff is the worst road in the country, a blackspot for accidents.

Capital expenditure is only justified if it enhances the greater efficiency and productivity of the economy.
The DIT project may enhance convenience for students and staff, but I can’t see how it’s justified. I suspect political tokenism here.
Particularly, with increasing numbers of Irish families unable to fund third level education for their children.
Increasing numbers of US universities are developing distant learning programmes (including Berkeley, Harvard and MIT) to provide higher quality education to a greater number of students. The Irish state is choosing a political vanity project more fitting of the 20th century.

The Dell jobs which went to Poland were mostly of the low-skilled production-line variety.

You’re right, of course, about the limitations of ICT jobs. A lot of the positions would need to be filled externally.

However, these jobs are less material dependent. Less of the money would be spent on road materials etc, so more is spent on wages. Higher paid ICT jobs would, in turn, provide more net contributors to the state in taxes. Furthermore, the investment could be regionalised to create/regenerate ICT hubs in employment black holes like Waterford and some of the large midlands towns. Partnerships could be formed with the Institutes of Technology to commercialize research ideas. This would attract further investment to key decentralized hubs and create knock on multipliers to local businesses where it’s needed most. So I’d be tying the investment money to localities.

With 2 bypasses being built in wexford, there’ll be a shot in the arm for:
- visiting engineers/surveyors based elsewhere
- some house rental in the area
- some temporary jobs for local labourers, subbies etc
- cash for plant hire businesses
- cash for materials providers
- breakfast rolls for 2 years

I’d much rather see 500m pumped into business in the South East, to generate jobs and develop the IDA business and jobs around IDA sites like the Wexford Business and Technology Park. Why build roads to entice commerce when you can spend the money on injecting commerce into the area?

As for the DIT campus, while there’s more worthy causes, I think it’s a good idea in general and will provide regeneration to that part of Dublin. Without the BXD luas being implemented, I worry about the site’s suitability though.

@ Ronan, the BXD line is going ahead and will serve Grangegorman with at lease one stop at the old Broadstone Gate station.
Grangegorman is much more than just a relocation of existing sites – it is taking students and staff out of sub standard and in some cases unsafe current accommodation, it is building state of the art research facilities, providing badly needed regeneration for a long neglected area of the city, and providing long term savings by way of reduced security, rent and transport commitments. This is the kind of project the Government need to support on an ongoing basis..

Martin you do have a point, but Dell Limerick was largely a manufacturing cluster. The experience stands in stark contrast with the IBM facility in Damastown what despite the same original head count, only something like 150 jobs were lost, because they retrained and unskilled workers over a period of a few years.
You are right though. Creative labs. Stream. Xerox. ACS in Cork. Siemens Business services. Schlumberger. About 2000 entry level jobs give from there, not to mention another thousand or so between Compaq, Gateway and others. Most if the low end tech jobs are long gone and part of the problem now is that theses were the stepping stone to higher level roles that companies now cannot recruit for.
You are right though in that many many people don’t have the ready skills and could find them difficult to learn. In a country with 27% illiteracy we have a real problem in finding work for low skilled but it would help a lot id we could get as many as possible of that 27% into functional literacy instead of trying to create short term and unsustainable labour intense roles so they never have to learn tho read and write.

Martin, if this is what your new party is about….then good luck with that…

Hi Laura, points well said, the manufacturing end of things did soak up low tech labour and those jobs are always at risk to continental shift – as is the want with multinationals. That figure of 27% though is a huge problem, and perhaps goes along way to making that 450,000 figure a stubborn one to shift, any focus on this would be worth all our while.

Good point Jason but don’t expect backup on here… This is the site where people dump their bile and hate out..

I’m aware that there’s legacy of infrastructure with the roads. By why build infrastructure to entice jobs when you can directly stimulate the local job market by giving loans to enterprise?

2 years from the start of construction there will be shiny infrastructure, and the IDA will go about marketing the South East as a good place to do business, and maybe they can attract big FDI. But until they do (if they do at all), it’ll be a new road for selling strawberries.

It’s better to grow 10 locally grown businesses, trading with eachother and selling to overseas partners and multinationals, than to have multinationals coming in for a 10-15 year stint.

‘If you build it they will come’ – how about we just grow enterprise ourselves, commercialize the research we subsidize through the public university system, and stop waiting for the fairy godmother of FDI. I mean, we have to pay for that anyway through IDA loans, IDA subsidization for graduate recruitment etc.

For the record, I’m very much pro investment in infrastructure, and I’d like to see all the NRA’s plans brought to fruition, but right now we need to build on our export success. We addressed some of our infrastructure deficit during the boom (not as much as we should have, given the cash sloshing through the government’s coffers), but now it’s time to build enterprise.

@Ronan, FDI is what we need as without it what you have is just the same money circulating. as tax takes it cut every transaction, the money gets less and finally vanishes. External cash is required to keep the system going. Also, this infrastructure will enable local enterprises to export their products more economically than at present, making them more competitive and successful

Jason,

If a company exports, it’s new money. Simple as. It’s capital investment that circulates and disappears in imports

Sure it does, but it’s not creating sustainable jobs.

We expanded our economy on this very principle. Pump money into construction and there’s a wider effect on the economy as builders buy hot food in convenience stores creating more jobs, everyone buys patio heaters, etc. The problem is that the spin-off disappears when the construction stops. That’s because it’s all capital expenditure. We had capital growth because we had an asset bubble in the valuations. That tricked us into thinking that hard assets grow wealth. They don’t under normal circumstances, but a business can.

If you put the money into small businesses, some of those will continue into the future, as they will build sustainable business models, and export around around the globe. So you pump the money into small businesses.

Look at dragon’s den. A bunch of guys with capital examine the ideas of participants.
- Guy comes in and says ‘I have a business worth 50,000 euro’
- ‘I project I will have a business worth 100,000 euro next year’
- ‘I’d like to offer you 30% of my business for 30,000 euro. It’s not technically worth that now, but that’s why I’m presenting my business case to you, so that you can see I will grow the value to 100,000 euro’
- The dragons think: ‘you know what, I think that not only will the business be worth 100,000 euro next year, but I think it’ll be worth 200,000 euro the year after’ and invest.

The same principle applies. The government invests in businesses. Some fail, but at least people were employed for a while. Some succeed, and repay the business loan and create sustainable employment in the area.

Would you rather 100 sustainable jobs in your town, or 250 temporary jobs while a bypass is built – half (or more) of them bussed in from elsewhere.

A good point Keith.
Ronan, from what i see this Goverment are dammed if the do and dammed if they dont. The projects involved are all worthwhile.

@Declan,

I’m not disputing that the project is worthwhile. I’m a transport nerd, I’d justify anything.

I just think we could better spend the money on tangible sustainable jobs, which would help close the deficit and generate more direct economic activity in the area.

Well said

Amazing insight as always….

More magic wand style ranting. How exactly do you propose to deal with the difference in what the gov is spending and what it is taking in – somewhere in the region of €16bn?

Dropping the charges will only make this gap larger, while cutting a few million from the pay of politicians might make people feel better, but won’t make much difference to the gap of BILLIONS of euro.

Wexford

Ronan, a decision of this size would be made by the full cabinet and thus its wrong for you to insinuate that the Minister is diverting funds to benefit his own constituency.
All of the project listed are very worthwhile. This is good news I believe.

Did you not read it? One of the biggest projects in it is in the “border, midlands and western” region. But lets not let fact get in the way of beal bocht!

Theres two sides to the border Dave!

ahh the whest is deprived again, boo hobo.

Two sides of the border? Really? Well….you do know we are not actually responsible for paying for one side, right?

My Aras Eanna, the west & Galway in particular get far more from governments than they merit. Galway got a University, bypasses, festivals by the bucketful. Waterford & Limerick cities in comparison are almost completely ignored by central govt. Why is Waterford the only one of our 5 cities with no university?