I like Article 15 – “EU countries not participating…can join at a later date”.
So far from being a vote on our continued membership of the EU or Eurozone, if we vote No, the door remains wide open.

“people went mad borrowing”
Kenny

But this treaty would not have stopped it because ireland had SURPLUSES for most of her membership of the euro, right up until the crash

Excellent piece of work!

Cheers Gav! Very informative. The Journal just seems to get better and better! The first place I come to for news and articles like this one :)

Nice one, thanks Journal.

Very helpful. Thank you for doing this.

Thanks, Gav. Good man!

Thanks Gavan alot easier to read than the full document.

Cheers Gavan…

Regarding this point in article 8 “If the European Commission believes a country has not met this requirement, referral to the European Court of Justice will be mandatory. In either case, the court’s ruling is final, and the court may take whatever steps needed for countries to comply with its ruling, within a period of its own decision.”

Can you or anyone else, shed any light on what steps the court could impose?

I doubt it really matters what we, the Irish ppl, think of this joke of a referendum. Does any of the present or previous GOV’s in our country really take us, the voter, seriously? I don’t think they respect our views whatsoever. They have proved that on many occassions and it’s not about to change because we have had a change of GOV. This present GOV are even more patronising than the previous shower of scumbags, fianna fail..

After seeing the Prime Time programme on Thursday night I still believe we live in a state which holds corruption above all other issues. I don’t trust any of these dirty, no good pocket lining wasters! This so called referendum means nothing to me personally and I doubt it means much to any of the ppl in my country that are suffering from the mess our Politicians have dropped us in over the last 30yrs or more. They should all hang their heads in shame. Fine Gael or Labour have nothing to crow about either. They’re all as bad as each other. Why didn’t any of the so called opposition call for savings to be put aside when the country was booming? Why did they sit by even though they knew clearly that corruption was indemic in Irish politics? They didn’t care but now that The Mahon Tribuanl Report has blackened every Political Partys name in this they want to be seen to be doing something. I say it’s far too little far too late. The ppl of IRELAND have been cheated by the very ppl they were supposed to be able to trust. What happened duriong The LISBON TREATY? We voted NO! but they ran it up the flag pole again because Europe got them to scare the life out of most of the ppl with more lies.

Why do we need Politicians? Someone please tell me now because I don’t see the reason for them. Civil Servants can do the job quite easily so we don’t need these lying bastards! I apologise for my bad language but I’m so bloody irate at the disgraceful behaviour of our leaders/Politicians. Bertie Ahern is a disgrace and he’s made the Irish state and It’s ppl a laughing stock all across the world imho..H 4 Humble! I cannot stand what these Politicians have done to our systems of government and those who broke the law should go to jail asap. They Gardai should be placed at the head of the investigating teams as well as the DPP nad CAB. Can we trust any of these ppl either? I don’t know if we can but we have to bring these scum to justice and soon. Ahern says he’s beeen done wrong? How dare he say this even after he’s been found to have taken payments.

Tell me how a politician can be in GOV without having a Bank Account?? Answer me that please Mr Ahern? You are a disgrace to the ppl of IRELAND. You have dragged our gd name through the mud again even after that other corrupt shithouserat Haughey had destroed our good name b4. I think fianna fail should never be allowed to sit in the houses of parliament ever again. The party is no good. fianna fail is a collection of crooks in suits and nothing more and that will never change because they are so deeply linked to the worst of the worst in the land..Business should never be allowed to lobby GOV or buy what it wants. GOV is supposed to be clean and respectful of it’s ppl but fianna fail went about lining their own pockets and didn’t seem to care about the future of our country. How can these scumbags be allowed to walk the streets when a man gets 6yrs for importing Garlic or something like that? Someone please explain why these dirty politicians have been allowed to get away with so much even though it’s been widely reported and proved that they are corrupt?? I don’t see an end to it anytime soon myself. I cannot see any of our so called new politicians getting to the root of the problems caused by the corruption of our political system. Nobody cares anymore. Money, power and greed is all important nowadays. It’s the route to all evil. I know we need money to live our lives but why be so corrupt about it. Was it that our Politicians weren’t paid enough? Did they not get to claim enough on expenses also? I think they get too much in wages alone without having to claim expenses 2. They need to look at themsleves hard in the mirror and rethink why they got into politics. Was it to help ppl or was it so they could become even more wealthy as a result of their contact with big business and other corrupt organisations.

Personally I don’t believe any of the Coalition GOV have the guts to right the wrongs of the past 30/40yrs in politics. I believe they will sweep it all under the carpet or find someone who is looking for a fat pension to cover it all up so the dirt gets washed away asap. I don’t trust any politicians no matter which party they come from. They’re all as bad as each other imho..H 4 humble/honest!

If Irish politics is to be taken seriously again by it’s people then this GOV and the rest of this shower need to make sure proper regulations are put in place asap so as to stop the corrupt natuer of politicians ever surfacing again. Only by jailing those corrupt politicians like Ahern, Flynn,etc..etc.. will the people of IRELAND begin to heal the wounds and hopefully the Irish people will slowly begin to trust our political system when it’s made an example of the dirty corrupt politicians of the pasy yrs in parliament.

I have never felt such shame as I do right now. My father is a fianna fail man through and through but this broke his spirit and trust in his party. He said he’s finished because he stood by the party after all the Haughey stuff but never expected it to come back again. Micael Martin thinks by expelling those dirty politicians he can rebuild the trust but I don’t think they deserve the right to feel that way. Their party is left in tatters and deserves nithing but the worst of the worst. How he can sit and say the things he’s saying now when he tried to make a joke of the tribunal even though he was in GOV for 3/4? terms with Ahern and his other cronies..They are a bunch of filth and deserve shooting..A waste of good bullets but I’d definitelt do it just to feel some much needed satisfaction at last..I always said FF were dirty and corrupt but my father, god bless his little cotton socks, wouldn’t have any of it til now…He doesn’t know what to do or say anymore. He used to back them to the hilt but now he puts his head down in shame even though he did nothing wrong. It was fianna fail( bunch of scumbags) who should hang their heads in shame but they don’t seem to understand how bad it is. People just don’t and will never trust them ever again. I really hope this corrupt party disappears into the dust and smoke and fucks right off for good..They are a shameless bunch of corrupt lowlife bastards!!!!

Great job journal confirming most of my thoughts ……So its a big fat no from me !!!

So Germany get to drag any country before the courts if the books don’t balance and the books in all the peripheral countries are not goin to balance for a very long time this forces countries to borrow from the ESM and eventually the 4th Reich will call all the shots with the bitch France right beside it. Correct me if I’m wrong

Vote no. Not that it won’t be passed by the rest of the ‘democratic nations’ in the EU anyway, but at least we can have our say with our last dying breath.

Still the big question is what changes will there be to our constitution should we say yes? Ps i emphasise the word “SHOULD”. The document translation is brilliant but we are still voting to change our constitution and can this change have any knock on consequences

Great work!

The answer is still NO,,,

Now i know what its about. . Thanks joyrnal.. The govt. should borrow this and get everyone to read it.

Well done Gavin.
Thank you .

The above summary does not mention one word about promissory notes

That is all the people of Ireland will be voting on

Thanks the journal, that cleared up some stuff for me.

Awesome job Gavan thanks. On iPhone works fine just click PDF link and it’s best to read as you can zoom in and out etc.

Good work.

Which article talks about the access to the ESM fund. I can’t seem to find it?

Yet it still got put through!

Think a bit of government fiddling went on with the ballot boxes although it has come to a stage now we,re it doesn’t matter what the citizens of Ireland think, the government will do what they like anyway, promise the world and then take it all away. What a joke!!!

http://www.change.org/petitions/supporting-the-irish-nation-step-down-from-government

Fair play journal. So it’s an insurance policy, of sorts, that every country pays into so they can draw upon if needs be, while also monitoring that each country spends it’s taxpayers money responsibly. Doesn’t sound too bad.

Ok, so all this is going to be written into the “What you must agree to do if you want to be part of the EU Rulebook”? am I right? A lot of what is in this seems sensible for countries that are been poorly governed, ie. Ireland. If everyone agreed austerity was the way to go to get us out of this recession then maybe this would be a good move, but I dont subscribe to that view.
I heard the “We’re giving up our sovereignty” “the country our forefathers fought for” rants, I’m a proud Irishman and people coming into our country imposing their rule sits uncomfortably with me, but surely this is only as long as we choose to be part of the EU. We can always stick our fingers up to the EU and say “We’re off, we’re going back to doing it our own way”…………….. Hmmmm, looking at the politicians we currently have, that’s a scary proposition.

Typo in article 2 (2)

Noting on cover page and page 1 and 8 of the original document we are not referred to as the republic of Ireland just, Ireland is this because we don’t warrant a full title since we have given up our sovereignty.
Anyway the chances of balancing the budget without enduring 5 to 10 years of more austerity seems minimal. So I am still voting no. It’s a bad deal for small country’s like ourselves it’s a great deal for the larger economies who can take the hit and sue the smaller ones out of existence.

So you went through the treaty and yet you couldn’t figure out the real name! Its not called the fiscal compact treaty