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The aftermath of the fatal bomb attack on the Mulberry Bush pub in Birmingham. PA Archive

UK Home Secretary to meet with Birmingham pub bombings families amid calls for new inquiry

In April 2019, an inquest jury found a botched IRA warning call led to the deaths of 21 people unlawfully killed in the atrocity in 1974.

THE BRITISH HOME Secretary has agreed to look into calls for a public inquiry into the 1974 Birmingham pub bombings, after a meeting with West Midlands Mayor Andy Street.

In a move welcomed by campaigners who lost loved ones in the twin attacks, Priti Patel said she would take into account their views and official advice before making any decision.

In April 2019, an inquest jury found a botched IRA warning call led to the deaths of 21 people unlawfully killed in the atrocity on 21 November 1974.

Two bombs planted in the Mulberry Bush and Tavern in the Town pubs also injured up to 220 other victims.

Conservative mayor Street, a long-time supporter of the Justice for the 21 Campaign, said he had met with the Home Secretary to discuss the campaign, and how 46 years on the case remains the largest unsolved murder in recent British history.

Street said: “Whilst this is not a firm commitment, it is a step towards securing a public inquiry and ultimately justice for the 21 murdered that night and their families.

“I want to thank the Home Secretary for taking the meeting to discuss this grave injustice, and for then agreeing to look into the case for a public inquiry.

“I am firmly of the belief that the only way to achieve justice now is through an open, panel-led, public inquiry, and I will continue to make the case alongside the Justice for the 21 campaign.

“The families, and the city of Birmingham, need closure.”

As well as agreeing to look into the case, the Home Secretary has also welcomed the opportunity to meet the families of the victims.

Street added: “The Home Secretary was clear that she was keen to meet with some of the victims’ families so that she could understand first-hand the impact the lack of justice was having, and the importance of this campaign to everyone in Birmingham and across the region.

“I know this will be welcome news for the families, and we look forward to her visit to the West Midlands.”

In a statement, Patel said: “My sympathy remains with all those affected by these awful events 46 years ago.

“And I recognise the desire of the victims’ families and the wider community to see those responsible brought to justice. So I would welcome the opportunity to meet some of the families so that I can take their views into account, together with official advice, before making any decision.”

Julie Hambleton, who lost her sister Maxine in the pub bombings, and is a member of Justice for the 21, said: “We welcome this opportunity to discuss the need for a statutory inquiry into the Birmingham Pub Bombings 1974 with the Home Secretary.”

Thanking Street for his intervention on the families’ behalf, Hambleton added: “We believe that a public inquiry is the only mechanism of investigation to establish truth, justice and accountability for those murdered in the pub bombings.”

Street first called for a public inquiry into the bombings on the 45th anniversary last November.

Street said in a speech: “Nothing we say or do can bring those innocent victims back, but we can still try to achieve justice for their families, and for a city that has many unanswered questions.”

Speaking during a visit to Ireland last October, Hambleton said the inquest held earlier in the year had “left more questions than answers”.

“If we can get a public inquiry then the information that has been locked away can be brought to the fore and be put to and in front of a public inquiry,” she said.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:08 AM

    It wasn’t just anger, it was the gross negligence of FG and the impression that their leader and ministers just didn’t care about the crises they presided over. Leo came across very badly, Michael Martin is still associated with the crash of 2008 (having being part of the FF cabinet who drove the economy off of a cliff), and Mary Lou and RBB simply came across as leaders who understand the suffering people are going through in Ireland 2020.

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    Mute Lucille Ball
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:11 AM

    @The Risen: nailed it on the head there sir

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    Mute GrumpyAulFella
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:25 AM

    @The Risen: this wasn’t a vote for Mary Lou and SF’s idealistic yet not costed policies. People shouldn’t lose sight of that. This was a floating vote that drifted against the established parties. It will drift back just as quick if SF get into a coalition. The economy will grow by 4.8% this year, it grew by 6% last year. Handing the car keys over to the Shinners now could very well spell doom. Time will tell. 76% of voters do not want SF afterall.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:30 AM

    @GrumpyAulFella: Sinn Feins policies were costed by the Department of Finance.

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    Mute iohanx
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:30 AM

    @The Risen:

    SF will likely abstain from making a government and use the blame game.

    Failing that, watch it pivot on policy.

    38
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    Mute Sim0n
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:34 AM

    @The Risen: Individually yes. Cumulatively no. Huge difference. The Department was at pains to point this out because the shinners were sounding off like their figures had been given a clean bill of health.

    58
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    Mute John O'Brien
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:37 AM

    @iohanx: Laughable attempt to distract from the reality that people don’t want FFG anymore!

    79
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    Mute Noely Kelly
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:37 AM

    @GrumpyAulFella: a few things wrong with your post there Grumpy….
    # 1 = Sinn Féins policies HAVE been costed..and found to be manageable,
    # 2 = This WASN’T a floating vote, this was disillusioned people leaving the big two established parties in their drives, the both ended with their second worst election results in their histories.
    Varadkar became the first Taoiseach in history to not be re elected in history, finally scrambling in in 5th , Mícheal Martin got home in 6th,
    People are sick of the lies, broken promises, scandals and arrogance, the 2 established parties have lost an enormous percentage of the vote over the last decade
    Social Media has played a Massive,Massive part in this, as the biased MSM and RTE, no longer have the monopoly.

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    Mute GrumpyAulFella
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:38 AM

    @The Risen: their build budget for 100,000 houses was laughed out of Merrion Row. Haven’t the costings for free GP care, never mind the invisible doctors that would service it, but I’m sure it’s another money fairy tree proposal. Remember the last left govt rainbow with DL and Labour? It last 30 months and Labour reneged on all of their tax cut promises and left us with the largest debt per capita in the world. Promising is easy.

    52
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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:39 AM

    @Sim0n: That’s the case for all partys and,of course, the government of the day, when requesting costed figures from Finance. I’m hoping you know that.

    Humble pie for breakfast, is it??

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    Mute iohanx
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:40 AM

    @John O’Brien: math is not a strong point, no?

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    Mute Noely Kelly
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:41 AM

    @Sim0n: please pop a link to your claim to where the department was at pains to point this out, and where has Sinn Féin’s figures been disputed.. and I mean Disputed by experts NOT affiliated with either FF or FF
    I’ll wait patiently…

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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:41 AM

    @GrumpyAulFella: Ah, so you don’t know what you’re talking about. SF had over 300 measures costed by Finance before the election. In relation to housing, go off and do your homework, instead of swallowing the spin.

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    Mute Big D
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:43 AM

    @The Risen: Honestly man get a job or a boyfriend or something. You spend way too much time on here, its pathetic.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:45 AM

    @Big D: I really love the Irony of you spending so much time on here pointing out how much time I spend on here.

    59
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    Mute Fred the Muss
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:45 AM

    @The Risen: SF policies were tested by the DOF but not road tested. They don’t give you the green light and say off you go, it doesn’t work like that.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:46 AM

    @Fred the Muss: They don’t do that for any party, so whats your point?

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    Mute Connoroconner
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:49 AM

    @John O’Brien: but still FFG got way more seats than SF. Go figure.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:54 AM

    @Connoroconner: I think I have it figured. They’re two different partys (well, physically, anyway)

    34
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    Mute Big D
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:58 AM

    @The Risen: Whatever man. If you want to make a real difference instead of arguing with people on here why don’t you go out and join SF or PBP and start making a difference. I feel sorry for you clearly have nothing in your life.

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    Mute GrumpyAulFella
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:01 AM

    @The Risen: I read their manifesto. It’s fairytale stuff. Where are the GPs going to come from. We’re building 6000 affordable homes right now, how will Mary increase this to 25,000 this year. Is she hiring Bon the Builder?

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    Mute Lily Martin
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:01 AM

    @Connoroconner: not exactly a big shock for the combined votes of two parties to exceed those of one party.

    34
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    Mute GrumpyAulFella
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:02 AM

    @The Risen: but 76% of voters didn’t vote for SF. You didn’t even give them first pref yourself, so you say.

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    Mute Matthew O'Kane
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:16 AM

    @The Risen: angry change valm change what ever the emotion it was a rejection of establishment and a call for change

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    Mute Connoroconner
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:25 AM

    @The Risen: yeah, they are two different parties except they keep getting lumped together, FFG as a term has been almost unanimously used by SF supporters on here. So which is it? If FFG are one then they won the election more than SF did, albeit because SF didn’t run enough candidates. And I’m just pointing this out not because I think FFG should form a govt, the onus is still on SF to do that, as obviously this was a vote for change.

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    Mute Ian Breathnach
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:32 AM

    @GrumpyAulFella: Blah blah blah, something something shinners, (insert bullshysh) blah blah blah (insert made up lie) blah blah blah.

    29
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    Mute Shazam37
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:36 AM

    @Connoroconner: Your statement is pointless. The two parties are ideologically and policy wise almost identical. The only significant difference is their history.

    Obviously they’re still two parties. They won’t coalesce because they’re self interested. It would be excellent for their country if they did.

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    Mute Thomas Harrington
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:23 AM

    @GrumpyAulFella: the economy growing means SFa if people can’t buy a house can’t afford to keep their kids in childcare but can’t afford to give up work to mind them- nor does it matter if people spends days in chairs before receiving medical attention- we don’t want an American style economy with the halves being just fine and dandy and the have nots living like indentured servants

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    Mute Connoroconner
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:34 AM

    @Shazam37: I wish they would coalesce, but taking their combined vote and assuming most people saw them as 2 cheeks of the same arse, the did better than SF, with the caveat i posted above. I think that’s a valid point to make. And I didn’t vote FFG myself.

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    Mute Shazam37
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:44 AM

    @Connoroconner: yes but that doesn’t mean that their votes automatically want a coalition. Many of their supporters do NOT want a grand coalition.

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    Mute Derek Lyster
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:44 AM

    @Connoroconner: with those maths you could argue that even between the 2 parties they still havent the numbers to form a gov

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    Mute MunsterPI
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:51 AM

    @The Risen: Costings is just that, costings. It means the Dept of Finance, looked at the manifesto submitted to it, added it up and said, yes SF that’s how much your manifesto will cost. It didn’t say, yes that’s how much is in the kitty or yes, that can be delivered. That’s not the Department’s job, paying for a manifesto is covered in a program for government, delivered by the government not the dept of finance. So saying that the manifesto was costed, just means SF can use a calculator.

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    Mute Connoroconner
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:12 AM

    @Shazam37: and I dont think there should be a grand coalition either, I’m just pointing out the anomaly. Clearly, SF won the election if you look at the percentage of votes they got and they should be in any future government, unfortunately from my perspective, but that’s democracy.

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    Mute Teresa Ryan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:36 AM

    @GrumpyAulFella: 78% of voters do not want FF and nearly 80% do not want FG.

    So where does that leave the country?

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:42 AM

    @The Risen: Costed by BOTH Department of Finance and DPER!

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:51 AM

    @GrumpyAulFella: re the 100,000 houses: the €6.5B SF had in manifesto re housing investment includes €4B from NAMA is on top of existing Government committments.
    All parties agree re Slaintecare policies.Included in SF proposals is increasing GP training places and introduction of a bursary for GPs to encourage GPs to practice in Ireland,etc

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:55 AM

    @MunsterPI: €11B was the projected fiscal space+€4B from NAMA+€3.8B from taxation measures,the €22B would be the cumulative figure.
    Political parties can get their manifestos costed by Department of Finance or DPER but SF got manifesto costed by BOTH!

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    Mute Aidan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 12:07 PM

    @GrumpyAulFella: even less want FG

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    Feb 12th 2020, 3:28 PM

    @GrumpyAulFella: I think the point is most of us aren’t experiencing the supposed economic growth. Working hard, can’t afford a roof over our heads, sick of living at home/going abroad just to get by.

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    Mute Aidan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 5:06 PM

    @GrumpyAulFella: Fine Gael were using the magic money tree to find the extra 1.5 billion for the hospital. I assume it’s the same tree they used to start Irish Water at a cost of 100s of millions.

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    Mute Sal Paradise
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:35 PM

    @Teresa Ryan: 75% don’t want SF. Whats your point?

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    Mute Angela McCarthy
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    Feb 14th 2020, 12:12 AM

    @GrumpyAulFella: and when you finish with all that waffle, you still know that its your firm hope and wish that it was just a floating vote!

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    Mute The Guru
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:09 AM

    I don’t think it’s right to say nobody saw SFs success coming. FG/FF have been listening to people up in arms about housing and health for years but instead of doing anything, they just kept coming out with rubbish statistics and essentially telling people they were wrong. Funnily enough if you tell people they’re wrong about their own lived experience it doesn’t go down too well. Real leaders listen to the people and address their concerns.

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    Mute Jane
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:33 AM

    @The Guru: it’s hard to think it’s not a protest vote given some of the SF candidates elected. The lad in my constituency lost his council seat a few moths ago as did others. One woman went on holiday in middle of campaign and another ran last minute and campaigned for 2 weeks. She had gotten 300 odd votes in locals and yet she got thousands this time around. Obviously they have their 15% core vote but that extra 10%, I think it’s floaters like myself (although I voted green this time) and people who wanted to kick the other pair.

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    Mute james dimaggio
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:41 AM

    @The Guru: It’s not just about housing and health. My biggest gripe is about their arrogance and lack of accountability. It was never their fault. Always a systems failure. Just look at the way they tried to explain the overruns in the cost of the children’s hospital. The power goes to their heads and they honestly believe they have the right to spend our money as they see fit. Oh and look at the way the voting for each other scandal was brushed under the carpet. Nothing short of grand scale fraud. I hope this was one of the main reasons Lisa Chambers and Tim Dooley list out. I hope things change, but I’m not hugely optimistic.

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    Mute The Guru
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:03 AM

    @james dimaggio: i agree but you can only fit so many characters in a comment! You can also add insurance, the broadband scandal and complete lack of any coherent plan on transport to the list.

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    Mute Brian Madden
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:06 AM

    @Jane: I gave SF first preference for the first time I’m my life at a general election. I want our citizens to be living in a society that doesnt have such inequality. We may live in a healthy country but the quality of life for many working class families isn’t great. I was also very disgusted by the way SF was treated in the media.

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    Mute Jane
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:12 AM

    @Brian Madden: and you’re exactly who I mean. You were voting SF regardless of the candidate they put forward. I’m not disagreeing with the reason why I’m just saying I don’t think SF have a 24% core vote all of a sudden.
    Can I ask as someone who hadn’t voted for them before and you said you didn’t like the way the media treated them, how did you feel about Cullinane, Ellis and even Mary Lous united ireland call since Saturday?

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    Mute Brian Madden
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:18 AM

    @Jane: yeah I voted for the brand.

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    Mute Bandit 600
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:44 AM

    @Jane: I voted for SF the party as a whole to see if they can make any difference and didnt really matter the person on the ballot paper, the local elections are different for me I could end up voting for a FG member then im voting for them not their party.

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    Mute Teresa Ryan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:42 AM

    @Jane: FF’s is allegedly the republican party and are allegedly in favour of a UI

    FG’s full title is FG the United Ireland Party.

    Go figure.

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 12th 2020, 12:14 PM

    @Jane: 63% of voters questioned in the Exit poll said they had not benefited from improvement in economy.Plus taking FF voters 68% of those &77% of SF voters said the same however 41% of FG voters said the same.The main reasons voters (58%)voted the way they did was health and homelessness/ housing.
    I was very annoyed re David Cullinane comment but I accept his FULL explanation and apology,I as a new voter ,as I said to him in an angry email don’t want to hear comments like that.Ellis ,I have no time for.Unity is on the cover of SFs manifesto and chapter inside too so no surprise about that.
    So we voted for change especially in health, homelessness/housing,etc and that remains the same priority focus.88% of SF candidates got elected.
    Dr Stan this morning on Sean O Rourke said housing/homelessness emergency was “a disaster”,that it was “caused by bad policies of Governments” & there was “a need for change”& she recommended a “Commission on Housing”.

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    Mute Caoimhín O'Cheallacháin
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    Feb 12th 2020, 1:11 PM

    @The Guru: it is even SF didn’t expect it

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    Mute Seán Dillon
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:15 AM

    When the leader of the government does not know the average wage of the country, there is a serious disconnect.

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    Mute Connoroconner
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:33 AM

    @Seán Dillon: actually a fact check proved he gave the correct figure for the average wage
    But were he and his govt arrogant and out of touch otherwise? That’s a big yes.

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    Mute Cocker
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:59 AM

    @Connoroconner: average wage means F all given the context. The figure that would have been significant would have been the mean. A much lower figure. Of course he knew this but still used a skewed, misrepresentative figure in order to sound like he and his cronies had been doing a good job. So basically he lied through his teeth

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    Mute Kevin Lonergan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:39 AM

    @Connoroconner: This was a fudge of the actual figures, using the median rather than the mean, a trick of statistics to use information to suit your agenda. The old adage remains true, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

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    Mute Bandit 600
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:48 AM

    @Connoroconner: He was correct but so would saying that if a company has two employees one earning €40,000 and the other earns €500,000 the average pay of that company is €270,000

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    Mute Bernard McGarvey
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    Feb 12th 2020, 12:09 PM

    @Cocker: I think you wanted to say that the median is a better reflection than the mean. This can be true for distributions that are highly skewed. The median wage represents the number where 50% of wages are below the median wage and of course 50% of wages are above the median wage.

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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:12 AM

    There is a trend away from the fallacy of party politics and an increased focus among the middle ground of the electorate of issue based voting, the fact that FFG appeared to treat the issues important to the people of Ireland with neglect and distain resulted in a shift towards a Sinn Fein that tapped into the despair on the door steps.

    However, this support is malleable, which is a huge sign of progression in our democracy, no longer will people be tied to parties ideologically but they have proved in increasing numbers that they will begin to hold them to account if they fail to represent the issues that are important to them while in government. This middle ground are the kingmakers of this new Irish political landscape and the same fate will await Sinn Fein if they too fail to meet their standards.

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    Mute Marcus Briody
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:27 AM

    I see the election results as Irish people finally saying that we have had enough of free market economics which just sees people only as consumers, only cares about people with capital, sees public services as something that should be privatised and sees the environment as something to be exploited and abused.
    This ideology has increased inequality since it was first adopted here in the 80s. It turned housing into a commodity which was then monopolised by foreign billionaires and is now out of reach for the average worker. Young people are voting left, hopefully in the next election we will finally kick the two free market parties of FF FG out of office and start looking at people, the planet and housing not as something to be profited from but as part of what makes healthy communities

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    Mute James Moore
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:53 AM

    @Marcus Briody: Well said sir.

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    Mute Teresa Ryan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:50 AM

    @Marcus Briody: Spot on and well said. What the people want seem pretty simple really and achievable.

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    Mute Caoimhín O'Cheallacháin
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    Feb 12th 2020, 1:25 PM

    @Marcus Briody: 100%

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    Mute David A. Murray
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:26 AM

    Also, before people start congratulating the Irish public too much…. If you travel on public transport, observe how difficult it is for the complex idea to get through to people of moving up the carriage walkway, or bus corridor, to make way for others to get on. Not an endorsement of people’s concern for each other, initiative, awareness or organisational ability. If you want better government then act like better citizens.

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    Mute Willy Mc Entire
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:13 AM

    FFG are in turmoil. Their attacks on SF gave SF slot of votes. Not more though than commemorating the Black and Tans.
    Housing , health etc certainly help sway many others.
    Change was used brilliantly to SFs effect.
    Question now is , will FFG coalesce with the knowledge it could see exponential growth for SF. Do they ignore the electorate again ?

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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:25 AM

    @Willy Mc Entire: I heard a very good point being made yesterday. Michael Martin stands to be the only FF leader in the history of the party to not become Taoiseach. So we may well see him do whatever it takes to avoid a rerun of the election…

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    Mute Willy Mc Entire
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:36 AM

    @The Risen: I doubt he has the balls to go in with Lieo as his 2ic.

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    Mute David Corrigan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:39 AM

    @Willy Mc Entire: There is a massive opportunity for SF to do good things for the country but they do need to do two things before anything starts. They need to cut out their politicians roaring and shouting “Up the Ra” and all of that nonsense. Secondly, they need to focus on fixing the issues the people are experiencing and to stay away from the idea of unifying Ireland. That will come in time and there is no need to put focus on that idea until they prove themselves and honor the promises they made to the people first.

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    Mute Jane
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:56 AM

    @David Corrigan: Fair play David, you’re the first SF supporter I’ve seen here to say that.

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    Mute Connoroconner
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:56 AM

    @David Corrigan: it’s simply not going to be possible to honor the promises they made to the people. It was a giveaway manifesto, auction politics at its worst, the closest we’ve come in years to the 1977 FF manifesto that eventually bankrupted the country.

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    Mute David Corrigan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:59 AM

    @Jane: I am not a SF supporter Jane. I gave them a vote this time as I want to see a change in how this country is managed and clearly FF and FG have no interest in doing that. If SF manage to make improvements then good. If they don’t then they go the same way as Labour. It is very simple stuff to understand.

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    Mute David Corrigan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:00 AM

    @Connoroconner: Their policies seem to be well costed so all they need now is time to prove themselves. I wouldn’t rule them out on delivering just yet.

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    Mute Brian Madden
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:12 AM

    @David Corrigan:totally agree and I’m very similsr. I hope they do will as the country is crying out for proper services. If they don’t deliver then they will be in trouble in the next election.

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    Mute David Corrigan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:18 AM

    @Brian Madden: And they will have nobody to blame but themselves Brian. Like I said, its a great opportunity for them but they need to deliver.

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    Mute Jane
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:54 AM

    @David Corrigan: Fair enough, I thought you were a SF supporter.
    We can’t expect them to deliver everything they said they would, I don’t think it’s possible. If people are willing to give SF a chance then we need to be realistic about what they can get done.

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    Mute Connoroconner
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:38 AM

    @David Corrigan: putting the pension age back to 65 wasn’t well costed, when questioned didn’t Mary Lou basically say I dont know how we’ll pay for it but sure, it’ll all work itself out in the end?

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    Mute Shakka1244
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:00 AM

    @David Corrigan: Same boat as you David. Sick to the teeth of FFG. Give SF a chance before writing them off lads. They can’t do any worse than FFG.

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    Mute Daimhín De Naois
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:14 AM

    @Connoroconner: Youre right, it wasnt! According to J. Stewart at Trinity FF’s figures were way off, again. The costing for increasing the pension age was done in the financial crisis when the SIF was in deficit and expected to continue to grow negatively but that hasnt happened so expenditure can be increased without jeopardising the fund. What youve quoted is not exactly what Mary Lou said- She said demographics will look after themselves when young people are able to buy a home, start a family, etc as opposed to now when that’s largely not possible.

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    Mute Teresa Ryan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:48 AM

    @Jane: If 50% of Slaintcare is delivered and half the houses are built, that alone will beca success. People understand that such a massive overhaul of the system takes time. We just need to see some good results.

    SF’s hardest hurdle will be the various civil service departments who will rebel against change. As for the HSE, SF will need to be ruthless.

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    Mute Alan Conroy
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:22 AM

    Remember how Syriza were elected to solve all the issues in Greece on the back of the same type of (deserved) angry vote, didnt work out for them. If SF managed to cobble together a government of the left it would face the exact same problems as Syriza

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    Mute Sim0n
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:38 AM

    @Alan Conroy: Will Doherty be expecting them to return the favour with a solidarity visit?

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    Mute Shazam37
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:45 AM

    @Alan Conroy: No it didnt. But then the EU/IMF wouldn’t allow it.

    That’s the big problem – ultimately the EU is a neoliberal entity. Which makes it very difficult for left wing governments to change tack.

    And odd that the Tories hate them so much.

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    Mute Jointheclubtoo
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:49 AM

    @Alan Conroy: Greece was crushed by Germany and the EU. Now that the EU got Brexit on their CV I wonder will they be as quick to trash the next country that rejects the Neo Liberal lunacy.

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    Mute Shakka1244
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:54 AM

    @Alan Conroy: That’s some leap Alan. I’d love you to elaborate on how a SF-led left coalition would be the same as Syriza. Or are you just scaremongering?

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 12th 2020, 3:08 PM

    @Alan Conroy: Remember how they asked Ireland’s support for a debt conference but weren’t supported.
    Remember how the ECB froze liquidity to Greek banks.(ECB were sued in 2017& case to go to ECJ)
    Remember EU threatened Brexit?
    Remember Ireland has higher debt per capita than Greece,in fact Ireland has the 3rd highest debt per capita in the world after Japan and US!
    Remember FG Government’blew opportunity to get debt deal’according to Prof Mody,at least Greek Government tried!

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    Mute David A. Murray
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:20 AM

    SF will probably stabilise their vote above 20 seats in the future, but this was the electorate looking for an alternative. That protest/change vote can disappear too. So SF need to focus on why their vote increased.

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    Mute Shakka1244
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:54 AM

    @David A. Murray: 100% – I wish them every success for Ireland’s sake.

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    Mute Garry Coll
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:02 AM

    One salient point missed by Mr Donnelly, people had become heartily sick of national media outlets, papers, radio, TV and others, acting as cheerleaders for the Government.
    The media outlets themselves had become partners with the government over the course of the last Dail, and commentators and opinion writers had become activists.
    This led to scandals such as cervical check and votergate being downplayed, and the relevant ministers and TD’s getting a free pass time and again.
    Its unlikely to change, but it bears being said.

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    Mute Shazam37
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:48 AM

    @Garry Coll: Nonsense. Every single publication was critical of health and housing and homelessness and rent and childcare. All
    Of them.

    Read Gene Kerrigan in the Sunday Indo and tell
    Me the media were government cheerleaders.

    By and large our media have been pretty good. U like the Us and UK

    Daft stuff.

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    Mute ☘
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:31 AM

    it was a vote for a change that young and old want fg and ff and pat kenny from newstalk106 would make you believe it was school kids that voted for sf

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    Mute Cormac Laffan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:23 AM

    It wasn’t an angry vote, it was careful and considered.
    Lot’s of angry journalism atm though, where was the anger when things were going to pot?

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    Mute Shazam37
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:40 AM

    @Cormac Laffan: the government have been consistently criticised by the media for their performance – It Indo Exam all frequently scathing of the housing health and children’s hospital crises

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    Mute Connoroconner
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:14 AM

    @Cormac Laffan: ever heard of Gene Kerrigan?

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    Mute John O'Brien
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:34 AM

    The tone of FFG continues to be defiant of the electorate by refusing to negotiate with SF. One things for sure, if the FFG parties try to form a coalition they will be met with wide spread protests around the country and will further alienate themselves.

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    Mute Gary Kearney
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:07 AM

    We need politicians not to play party politics now but to actually govern the country. Not just the people that voted for them but the entire population.
    We need to keep the prosperity happening but to share it more evenly.
    We dont need knee jerk reactionary moves to play to the audience.
    We need to clean out the quangos and the multi layers of paperwork that causes every government project to go massively over budget and make business rich and people poor.
    We need first to have a government for the people all of the people.
    Tax needs to be fair not back to the way it was at and not as it now, with vulture funds and banks cleaning up.
    Co living modern day tenements need to be stopped as does the super expensive student accommodation.
    The troika needs to redo the loan interest and payments. No burn them all as that could hurt us even more but they will take a haircut and a tight one.
    NAMA bailed out companies are not allowed do what they did to cause the mess in the first place.
    Vienna style housing, google it. It ticks all the boxes for social and affordable housing and is self financing.
    Slainte Care in and no messing about with it.
    Climate change and not the hug a tree BS we get from a lot of them. Lets fight it straight on but understand the people that can not walk and cycle everywhere.
    The vulnerable and ignored in the country need a fair deal, not bury them in money that was tried for some and failed.

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    Mute Greg Daniel
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:35 AM

    They say the “people” have spoken and they want change.

    There has been a swing of about 12% to SF on a 62.9% voter turnout

    In real terms that’s about 260,000 people which is about 7.5% of the total electorate that have actually ‘spoken’.

    Unfortunately it doesn’t take a large portion of the electorate to cause potential mayhem to a society.

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    Mute Shazam37
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:49 AM

    @Greg Daniel: maybe so – but decades of conservative neoliberal politics has achieved the same.

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 12th 2020, 3:28 PM

    @Greg Daniel: Actually if you look at the Exit Poll:63% said they hadn’t benefitted from improvement in economy.Even 68% of FF voters&77% of SF voters said the same while 41% of FG voters said same.So obviously a substantial amount of voters were in agreement.
    Also Exit Poll showed that the most important reasons people voted was health@32%& homelessness/housing@26%(pension age was only 8%, climate change only 6%, taxation only 4%,etc.So obviously again the most important reason why people voted the way they did was health, homelessness/housing @58%& this was cross party too.
    88% of SF candidates were elected!

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    Mute David Saunders
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:20 AM

    No money for the people be they sick poor or disabled but still their money was cut to pay for government pensions and entertainment such as football horse and dog racing. The tax payers being forced to work past retirement age while they retire in their 50s. How disconnected can they be

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    Mute Ian Breathnach
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:30 AM

    Wrong. I used to vote Labour, FF and FG. Never again. My ideology has shifted left. So called centrist politics has failed most of our society, but especially the most vulnerable.

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    Mute @mdmak33
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:00 AM

    Not anger,FG neglected the publics needs at every opportunity.

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    Mute mac
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:07 AM

    All votes are angry ones

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    Mute Martin Scaldbag
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:30 AM

    @mac: Anger which was stoked up by wannabe T.D.s. In reality this state has been in far worse positions in the past, with a fraction of the anger. Ireland has become a fractured society as a result of this anger control.

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    Mute MunsterPI
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    Feb 12th 2020, 10:53 AM

    Don’t worry, as soon as the multinationals follow the current capital flight out of this country and people start losing their jobs, then the electorate will swing back to the centre and beg FG or FF to fix the country, although by then it will probably be too late.

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    Mute Mazza86
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:16 AM

    @MunsterPI: p

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    Mute Mazza86
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:17 AM

    @Mazza86: people forget how much we rely on multinational companies on employment here in this country…

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    Mute Daimhín De Naois
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:20 AM

    @MunsterPI: Why would multinationals follow the current capital flight…you do know that they are the capital flight, right? Its tax avoidance by multinationals that serves a constant capital flight in Ireland, and across Europe.

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    Mute Daimhín De Naois
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:26 AM

    @Mazza86: So because they come here for low tax rates to use our workers but are allowed avoid tax almost entirely thats okay?? Theyre making the most money and pay the least tax while the rest of us pay a greater proportion of our money to plug the holes. Has everybody gone full neoliberal or where is the common sense here?

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    Mute Teresa Ryan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 12:00 PM

    @MunsterPI: The bank losses is just monopoly figures. If the economy continues to grow, even modestly, there will be no money flight.

    Where exactly are the multi nationals going to go after their massive financial investments in this country. Plus most other countries have much higher corporation tax.

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    Mute Teresa Ryan
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    Feb 12th 2020, 12:05 PM

    @Mazza86: Something that should ever been allowed to happen. Newstalk yesterday saying the multi nationals are 75% responsible for our exports vis-a-vis 25% 15 years ago.

    FF/FG have brought us to a very dangerous place.

    From here on in the government’s priorities should be indigenous industries.

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    Mute MunsterPI
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    Feb 12th 2020, 2:12 PM

    @Teresa Ryan: Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Monaco, The Caymans, British Bermuda, Eastern Europe.

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    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
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    Feb 12th 2020, 3:16 PM

    @MunsterPI: Paschal Donohue brought in changes re intangible assets in 2018(from January 1st 2018) but loophole meant that those on-shored between 2015-2017 weren’t included despite advice given by IFAC.But SF proposed to take IFAC’s advice!

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    Mute Ⓐⓝⓞⓝⓨⓜⓐⓤ⑤_Ⓓⓤⓑ
    Favourite Ⓐⓝⓞⓝⓨⓜⓐⓤ⑤_Ⓓⓤⓑ
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    Feb 12th 2020, 12:23 PM

    People didn’t just magically become left. Correct. This was a protest vote. Change is coming… not for the better though. The SF mask is already slipping

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    Mute Neuville-Kepler62F
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:46 AM

    Voters are not Angry ….. they are Furious!

    “All politics is local and there is nothing more local than a man’s wallet”
    “Its the Economy Stupid … the domestic home family economy .. stupid!”

    People are not angry with FG / FF / Politicians … they are Furious!

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    Mute Neuville-Kepler62F
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    Feb 12th 2020, 8:48 AM

    @Larry

    2020 Election : Voters Program for Government :-

    “All politics is local and there is nothing more local than a man’s wallet”
    “Its the Economy Stupid … the domestic home family economy .. stupid!”

    People are not angry with FG / FF / Politicians … they are Furious!

    - 2 Tier Family Homes … Owners Landlords v the “Locked Out” – Rack Rents, No Affordable homes and Evicted Homeless.
    - 2 Tier Car Tax … Post 2008 well off new car class Low Car Tax v pre 2008 excessive High Car Tax for older cars – irrespective of miles traveled
    - 2 Tier Health … We have VHI so we skip the queue v rest of you take your ‘Place’ in the Queue and wait … and 11% of GDP put into health. (This one is obscene)
    - 2 Tier Insurance … €450 in Ireland car insurance v car insurance in France €185 … same company!!!(Judges should not be allowed to determine monetary awards. That is for the taxpayer via his TD to decide – on what society can afford. Judge should decide the degree of negligence or otherwise – thats it …. no more daft Irish stuff)
    - 2 Tier VAT Tax … No Vat on Bank transactions v but VAT (€28,000) tax on new homes .. amazing no street protests!.
    - 2 Tier LPT … a tax family homes ..none in Italy .. next tax food – you cant tax Life Essentials (shelter)… TDs just dont get it.
    - 2 Tier Pensions … 3 pensions (1 Private + 2 Welfare ‘PRSI’) v wait until you are 68 yrs for your only Welfare pension. Wrong answer FG.
    - plenty more … do a survey!

    Complete lack of urgency, energy, competence by Political and Civil Service to remove the ridiculous barriers to fix above.

    Decent people do not want to live in this most unfair horrible 2-Tier society … they are not angry – they are furious.

    A Second Troika may be necessary ……. to fix it …

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    Mute Marie Broomfield
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:06 AM

    It’s been an angry vote for years. And when the magic doesn’t happen,what then.

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    Mute This Guy
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    Feb 12th 2020, 9:26 AM

    This sounds suspiciously like what people were told after the Brexit Referendum and the Trump vote. Incorrectly as it turned out

    Yet look what the UK has ended up with. It’s also likely Trump will get back in.

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    Mute Kenneth Finnerty
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    Feb 12th 2020, 1:50 PM

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Irish_general_election Take a look here and then look at 2011, FG went from 31 to 76, labour got 37 in 2011, both parties have lost around 41 / 31 seats in the meantime. The greens went from 6 to 0 to 12 as well. Its a volatile system. I’d go with the angry vote / protest vote theory

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    Mute Patricia O'Reilly
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    Feb 12th 2020, 12:51 PM

    Well I sincerely hope it wasn’t for their former ideals. They had better put their old ideals behind them and give the country change.. No more ignorant outbursts from new tds about hunger strikers etc.

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    Mute Gombeen Island
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    Feb 12th 2020, 11:54 PM

    It was ideological yes and it was anger of course, it was a mix of both and many many other reasons.. too many to list here.
    Not least for me, anyhow was the 200Billion debt that 100 years of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail Duopoly left the Irish people. The serious mental illness in Irish society- also caused by Fine Gael and Fianna Fail’s worship of the market. The suicides – not just from the last recession -although it’s been reported that 500 extra suicides can be attributed to that alone, but the pervasive corrosion of the spirit of each generation in Ireland from the elite- FG/FF class. Out of touch Gombeens who worship money, wealth, greed and selfishness. The housing crisis is not an accident, or not about a mere lack of supply, it is a side effect of hyper-capitalism. A hyper-capitalism nurtured and coveted by Fine Gael and Fianna Fail for decades. Their greedy gombeenism has brought the state to this current impasse. Fianna Fail is rotten with greed, and Fine Gael is rotten with meanness, callousness and a particularly arrogant and odious kind of right wing ideology that seems to have nothing but utter contempt for the most vulnerable in Irish society- the poor, the homeless etc. The homeless crisis itself is another shameful factor. 4,000 homeless kids and Eoghan Murphy still goes for election despite being obviously utterly despised by the electorate, not just for his ineptness but also because of his disgusting arrogant attitude that reeks of classism. Fine Gael are the Marie Antoinettes of Ireland. Fianna Fail are the pigs in Animal Farm….

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    Mute Maurice Dodd
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    Feb 12th 2020, 5:47 PM

    On above story
    Was drunk most of the time

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    Mute Corkonian In Dublin
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    Feb 13th 2020, 1:09 PM

    Have to agree that it’s a vote of anger. However, the aftermath is causing more anger for 2 reasons:
    1. Fine Gael are still arrogant and don’t seem to have listened or learnt from GE2020
    2. Sinn Féin “won” the election on domestic issues, which they now seem to have abandoned for the push of a unification vote. While this might not be popular, I don’t think a United Ireland is in the best interests of the South. Saying that it was not part of what Sinn Féin said on the doorsteps. So from that regard Sinn Féin are proving themselves to be just as arrogant as Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil. I

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    Mute db
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    Feb 13th 2020, 11:15 PM

    I think by nonideological the writer means demonstrable evidence through ballot box of popular demand for the social democratic common sense, on the scandinavian model.

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    Mute Angry_Man41
    Favourite Angry_Man41
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    Feb 12th 2020, 7:48 PM

    FF/FG PLUS a few Indo’s will do the job. Enough of this misguided leftie nonsense

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    Mute Corkonian In Dublin
    Favourite Corkonian In Dublin
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    Feb 13th 2020, 1:09 PM

    Have to agree that it’s a vote of anger. However, the aftermath is causing more anger for 2 reasons:
    1. Fine Gael are still arrogant and don’t seem to have listened or learnt from GE2020
    2. Sinn Féin “won” the election on domestic issues, which they now seem to have abandoned for the push of a unification vote. While this might not be popular, I don’t think a United Ireland is in the best interests of the South. Saying that it was not part of what Sinn Féin said on the doorsteps. So from that regard Sinn Féin are proving themselves to be just as arrogant as Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil.

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