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CORK SOUTH WEST TD Michael Collins has been on what could be termed as a bit of a winning streak in Irish politics lately.
After launching Independent Ireland just over two years ago in November 2023, alongside fellow TD Richard O’Donoghue, the pair have grown the party from two TDs to one that now has four, as well as one MEP and 23 councillors.
Currently at 5% in the polls, Independent Ireland’s popularity is on par with Labour and Aontú and above that of People Before Profit and the Greens.
In a sit-down with The Journal in Leinster House on one of the final days of this year’s Dáil term, Collins said he is pleased with where things stand.
Like most politicians, he claims not to get too hung up on polls, though he can’t help but note that his party is at the same level as the Labour Party, which has been around for a century.
In a short but wide-ranging interview, Collins spoke about, among other things, how he knew Catherine Connolly would win the presidential election (despite backing Maria Steen), how he would have shot one of the Bondi Beach gunmen in the leg, and how he believes that people should be allowed to have two pints and drive.
While the 34th Dáil got off to a tumultuous start with the row over speaking rights for the Regional Independents, it was also a period of unprecedented cooperation among parties on the opposition benches.
The sight of Collins standing shoulder to shoulder with his peers in the likes of Labour, the Social Democrats and People Before Profit during that period was a rare act of collaboration among unlikely partners.
But is it something we will see more of in the future? Don’t hold your breath.
Collins made the point that the same thing happened two weeks ago when members of the opposition supported disability campaigner Cara Darmody (who has been advocating for improved assessments of need), but said that while there are areas where the parties have common ground, there are a great number of issues where they are “miles and miles and miles” apart.
“And that division is widening,” Collins said, pointing to his disapproval of the Social Democrats and the Labour Party’s stance on fishing quotas as one example.
Immigration, abortion and climate change would be other areas where his party is on the other end of the spectrum compared to the left-wing parties.
Another area is around drink-driving.
Collins has previously been against tightening drink-driving laws.
Asked whether an Independent Ireland government would push to loosen laws, Collins said it isn’t one of their policies.
“I don’t believe in people drinking three, four, five or six pints and driving home. That’s not on, but certainly there was a position in life where people sat in a bar for two or three hours because they needed a little bit of company, and they drank a couple of pints. And now they can be caught for drink-driving going home, and that’s shocking difficult for people.
Asked whether he thinks it is safe for people to drink two pints and drive, Collins said: “I’d say so.”
“I wouldn’t be advising people to do it. But I know if you’re inside in a bar for two or three hours and drinking two pints, you’re [doing it] over a period of time. But look, as I said, it wasn’t in our policies.”
Collins has also spoken before in favour of more people holding guns for self-defence.
He believes the availability of guns in the US is “ridiculous”, but said that if there was a situation where “someone’s coming up to kill you inside your bedroom” you have “very little change to get away” without a gun.
Referring to the recent terror attack on Australia’s Bondi Beach, Collins said he would have shot one of the gunmen in the leg if he had the chance.
“I saw the man in Bondi Beach the other day, he jumped on your man, took his gun, and I hate to say my first reaction was he should shoot him… Well, I certainly would have shot him in the leg. I was afraid that man would up and pull out another gun.
“Jesus, people are killing people like, and we’re afraid to, I hate to say, fire back. That can’t happen. So, in a situation where you have a legal firearm, your life is in danger, well, sometimes an eye for an eye, you know what I mean,” Collins said.
Turning to the presidential election, Collins said he voted for Catherine Connolly in the end. This was after his party’s TDs nominated conservative campaigner Maria Steen to get on the ballot.
“I have known Catherine since 2016, I found her to be one of the most incredible TDs here in Dáil Éireann. She spoke many times on issues that I would not agree with, but I could always sit down and talk to her about it or always meet her in the corridor and there was a kind word.
“She was an incredible person to bring people with her. I met her when she was on the verge of announcing [her candidacy], I can’t exactly recall the conversation, but to me, it was, ‘you are going to be the president once you announce’.
“I knew there was nobody going to stop her.
“Nobody in the country could stop her,” Collins said.
If he felt this so strongly, then why didn’t Independent Ireland support her in the race?
“We were divided in relation to a number of issues that she was involved in, like climate and maybe carbon tax and things like that, that we would have found difficulties with. But that doesn’t take from the individual or the professionalism of the individual.
“Some people inside there [Leinster House] would have issues with us, and they wouldn’t speak to you. They wouldn’t look at you.
“Catherine was a very, very strong candidate. She totally impressed me, as a person who would be seen to have different politics [to me].
“And look, I do believe Maria Steen should have been given the right to run.
“And we gave her that opportunity,” Collins said, referring to the fact that his party’s four TDs nominated Steen to get on the ballot. Ultimately though, Steen did not reach the required threshold of 20 nominations from Oireachtas members.
Collins takes the view that his party is one of the centre, not too far to the right, but “definitely” not left. Others would firmly label Independent Ireland as a right-wing party.
That’s why it was so surprising when former Social Democrats councillor Bill Clear announced that he was joining Independent Ireland last month.
“People can see the light,” Collins quipped about Clear.
Collins pointed to Clear as one of the good news stories for Independent Ireland in a year when some of its representatives made headlines for more controversial reasons.
Shortly before last year’s general election, one of the party’s candidates, Philip Sutcliffe, resigned from the party over his close association with Conor McGregor.
Sutcliffe, a former coach of McGregor, had been photographed accompanying him to the court hearing where a jury found the MMA fighter had assaulted Nikita Hand.
Without referring to McGregor by name, Collins said Sutcliffe was with somebody that Independent Ireland wants “no association with”.
“There is black and white in politics. You gotta go one way or the other, and that’s fine. He’s an independent now, and best of luck to him.
“We could not in any way, shape or form be seen to condone those actions,” Collins said.
Sutcliffe isn’t the only one to have created negative headlines for Independent Ireland.
Collins himself caused a stir last year when he told Hot Press magazine that he was in favour of burqas being banned in schools and that he believes God protects us from the weather.
More recently, the party’s councillor, Linda de Courcy, was publicly rebuked by Collins after she took legal action against Vicar Street over its hosting of a Bob Vylan gig.
The UK-based duo sparked controversy over their chant of “death to the IDF” at Glastonbury this year. Following this, de Courcy attempted to stop a gig by the pair going ahead, but later dropped the court case.
“That should never have happened,” Collins said, arguing that it would have been wrong to revoke Vicar Street’s licence for hosting the gig.
“There’s a lot of people employed in that business. You cannot do that.
“And look, in my view, I wouldn’t agree with that man’s music, because I haven’t a clue about his music.
“If they were across the road, I wouldn’t go looking at them. I’m a Bruce Springsteen and Bryan Adams man. No disrespect to every other musician, they’re gonna have a hell of a job to catch up to my interests.
“But no, I felt that was wrong, and she withdrew that. And look, we’ve accepted that, and we moved on.”
The party’s first-time TD and chairperson, Ken O’Flynn, has also amassed significant criticism this year for controversial statements on issues like immigration and trans rights and healthcare.
Does Collins ever feel uncomfortable with some of the positions taken by his TDs and councillors?
“Look, in a political party structure, you’re never going to be comfortable with everybody, what they’re saying. And I see that with some of the councillors,” Collins said, adding that while he might “go borderline” on some of the issues raised by the likes of O’Flynn, he doesn’t totally disagree.
Asked if he has words in private with his TDs, Collins said:
“Oh yes, we all do. Oh God Almighty, that happens. And they give out to me too, but that’s politics.
“I think if we got up and said all the right things, Jesus Christ, we’d be above in some kind of Heaven up there in politics, not at all.
“I’ve often gotten a call from one of the lads saying: ‘What in the name of Christ are you at boy?’ And you’d fight your corner. I think that’s healthy.”
O’Flynn has built such a high profile for himself in the last year that some have questioned who is really driving the show in Independent Ireland.
Does Collins feel like O’Flynn is nipping at his heels in terms of the leadership?
“I don’t. I’m not looking over my shoulders,” he said.
“As far as I was concerned, I spent a good few years in the Dáil before I started thinking of being over ambitious, because you have to learn the ropes, and a lot of mistakes can be made along that road. And I learned that myself.
“I’m ten years here now, and I’m in a leadership position. But like what I’ve said before on this is, I’m gonna run this party to the best of my ability, and if that doesn’t work, I’ll accept that and walk away.”
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