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EDUCATION MINISTER RICHARD Bruton has asked an expert group to draw up proposals for coding in primary schools.
Groups like the incredibly popular CoderDojo already teach children coding, but the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment will be looking at whether it can be taught in schools.
At the moment the council is working on a new framework for the primary curriculum.
What do you think: Should children learn coding in primary school?
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It would probably be more practical than religion, to be fair.
When I was in school I used love our religion classes , not because I was religious but our teacher was incredibly well travelled , he thought us about different cultures and religion , tales of trekking through India up ta base camp, train rides through Asia.. he brought in a guitar one time and belted out a few Johnny cash songs, another time he thought us to meditate (something I’ve tried to continue into adult life) My point is , religion as an exam subject is fairly pointless , but it gave me something to look forward to twice a week and inspired me in ways that other subjects couldn’t… Coding should have been introduced 10 years ago..
Sounds like that class was 10% religion and 90% anything else to pass the time.
Fionn – pity he didn’t teach you the difference between ‘thought’ and ‘taught’
Religious teaching is not a problem for a couple of periods a week. The problem comes with religions indoctination and the additional time this consumes. Weeks at a time during First Communion and Confirmation preparation. It should be removed from the main school day. Do it after hours. And the same should apply for other religions.
Ya thinking back Terry , meditating was a great way to insure the class stay quiet … Jo45 , appreciate that I’m now a better person for knowing the difference..
Religion class in secondary school was a doss class…nothing else.
i think there is one room for one pointless subject at school so let children decide between religion and irish.
my religion teacher tried to make me make my communion and confirmation, I was in secondary school and had no interest in religion. and when she couldn’t get us to pay attention to what she was teaching she would start an argument between us about abortion pro choice Vs anti choice.. coding would have been much more useful and is being introduced in the simplest form in my sons school, using a toy called bee bot.
Ya I get that ,I can still belt out the Our Father in Irish and in an Irish song version , but making your communion and confirmation are a huge part of growing up irish. It’s tradition , I’m a sucker for tradition! I do think as kids get bit older , maybe the year after communion they should be TAUGHT about other cultures and religions.
Nobody is saying that communion and confirmation can’t continue to be a tradition for those that want it. Just wondering why you expect the state to pay for it?
It’s part of the education system, always has been.. the state pays for the teachers time ? the actual church visits and ceremonies are outside school hours so I don’t see how it costs the state anything other than the teachers wage ?
Just becuase something has always been does not mean it should continue to always be. About half of marriages are now non religious, times are changing and the education system will have to change. Teachers are the most expensive resource of the education system and most preparation is done in schools, during school time. So yes the state is largely paying for it.
The church owns most of primary schools so until that changes there won’t be a drastic change in the situation.. personally I don’t have an issue with it being taught in primary and have no issue with teachers teaching it.. a little less bias towards other religions would be nice and with the inclusion of coding you’d have a well rounded kid heading into first year..
If people don’t like it or the religious element of the school or system or country move away. The same people that do, will always find something else to moan about somewhere else. Why stay and be unhappy
” but making your communion and confirmation are a huge part of growing up Irish. It’s tradition”
It was all part of the grooming process…
“Move away if you don’t like it…” sorry what? I was born here, raised here, work and pay my taxes here, why should I ‘move away’ because a religion, that I don’t follow, wants to dominate the education system and force itself on 4 and 5 year olds (no pun intended).
Where should I move to as a matter of interest? Being Irish and being Catholic aren’t one and the same thing last time I checked.
Most religion classes are not about religion. They’re about ethics.
Coming from a software engineer, teaching kids to “Code” in primary school would probably be a bad idea. Writing software is not just about writing code, its about problem solving. When I did my post grad, I gave tutorials to first year computer science students in one of our universities, I was teaching them to code in Java. Most of the issues they had was not with the nuts and bolts of the code, but they went about solving the problem they were presented with the wrong way, and although the code ran and didn’t give any errors, the program didn’t actually work. In my very first programming lecture when I started college, we all wrote a list of commands on paper of how to make beans on toast, and we all explained how our commands would work. Sounds simple, but very few people would have ended up with beans on toast if their commands were acted out in real life!
Coding is based around mathematical logic, either algebra or set theory (for databases). I don’t remember those being covered in any real detail in primary school (although its been many years since I was in primary school). Unless the kids understand algebra, then the concept of coding will go over a lot of their heads, and will scare them from ever having an interest in computer science when they pick a college course. Just look at the Irish language, you would think that after 8 years of primary school, and 6 years of secondary school, being thought Irish by teachers that should be fluent in the language, that every student should be well able to speak Irish, this is not the reality. The first person to teach any student code should be a person fully qualified in that field, not a teacher that did a 2 week upskilling course on their summer holidays.
Do the bort man I totally agree with who teaches this in schools. We have teachers who do on line courses & 2/3 week courses over the summer who are expected to teach the course during the year. This is another hair brained idea from our minister Richard Bruton regarding what should be taught in our schools by people who may/are not qualified to teach it.
Software engineer of 11 years and I couldn’t agree more. I also did an enormous amount of tutoring in college. I came across students who couldn’t add two fractions, but were in BSc degree programs.
It would be much more useful to double down on maths and writing, coding will follow more easily if they are interested. I believe that a kid can be lost to mathematics by eight or nine years old, and unable to express themselves in the most simple document/essay – that’s far more serious!
There’s a myth that coding for teens will give an army of good software engineers later.
The code is a tool not a skill. It’s akin to teaching hammering, sawing and screwing, and expecting to produce ready made carpenters.
There are already plenty of engineers in the industry who aren’t good problem solvers, more of these is not what is needed. Better to encourage coding as extra curricular for kids with a passion for problem solving.
Lastly more people in my class hated programming than liked it. A very small proportion of 200 first year comp science students I started with are engineers – the most successful had little to do with coding in fact. There’s more to ICT than coding. I’d rather a grad who knew maths and could demonstrably write good documents, they’ll do much better than a ‘coder’ who can’t do either
soon there will be people saying they can “code” html :D
Can’t really agree with this, Bort…if you look at something like Scratch you’re generally not getting too tied up in algebra etc. (though you can if you want) and a kid can get something up and running fairly easily. What you do need is the correct problem-solving approach and this hopefully is what the kids learn from it. The actual code itself is fairly irrelevant at that stage as long as you get your head around the way of thinking that is required.
And yeah, some kids just don’t take to it, even at Coder Dojo there are kids who are dragged in every week by their parents and don’t want to be there.
Voice of sense. Curriculum is already horribly overloaded. Teach French, Teach Happiness, Teach Coding. Yeah. The day is five hours, we need to look at a few elephants and holy cows before adding more subjects. The overloading caused by SESE before second class has never been sorted out and literacy and numeracy have had to give. That said, kids love learning Scratch in our school, but nothing like enough time or teacher training to really make it useful.
Pseud O’Nym, we are actually making the same point! Problem solving is what kids need to be thought, not actual “code”. Once you can teach the kid to break down the problem to a set of tasks, it really doesn’t matter what tool they use to create their program. Scratch is a very powerful tool, actually anything with a friendly drag and drop interface makes it easy for kids to understand. You can build pretty complex things with scratch, it blew me away the first time I seen it. Its not just kids that don’t get it, the drop out rate in IT related courses is very high, only one sixth of my first year class graduated.
I’ve gone to a lot of teacher development events and conferences in Sweden where I teach. A lot of the research at the moment boils down to the fact that kids will always teach themselves how to work with technology, so I don’t need to be the one to do that.
I can use technology in class, but I don’t need to teach how to use it (for most kids). I don’t need to use it in every lesson, and I don’t think I should. I don’t have an interactive whiteboard (cannot understand the craze about these back home – they’re far more trouble than they’re worth, in my opinion). It’s rare when I have a lesson that doesn’t involve pen and paper in some shape or form.
Though a lot of the skills that come with pen and paper are old-fashioned, they are still very much current and required and develop skills that are used elsewhere in life. Kids need to be able to write in an orderly fashion whether on paper or digitally in order to be understood. They need to learn to keep a notebook organised, learn how to go back through notes to find relevant information (if you can’t find something in your own notes, you haven’t a hope online or in a library) and even to just develop their fine-motor skills through improving their handwriting.
As Do the Bort man said above, people of college-going age had trouble writing the procedure of how to make beans on toast. Coding depends on such attention to detail. I had a similar problem with Swedish-equivalent of fifth class when trying to get them to write out the procedure for a simple experiment in science class. They couldn’t do it as no one ever taught them (pH testing ended up something like “1. Put the lemon juice. 2. Get the paper. 3. Check the score” – and that would have been one of the better ones). So I had to abandon science, and switch to English on the spot to teach procedural writing. We wrote the procedure of how to make a cup of tea. Target audience was an alien so that they could understand how to get every little detail in there, and why precision in the language used was important. They went through each other’s work carefully and found holes where the alien could go wrong. One of the best things I ever taught in terms of what it did for the rest of the year. Experiments were written out so much better after that, and this will undoubtedly feed through to their abilities in other areas too, such a coding if they choose to work with it.
To top it off, I know from experience that a new ‘craze’ like teaching kids to code filters through the many levels down to schools so late (in general), because of layers of discussion, subsequent training, purchasing/updating equipment etc., that it is almost irrelevant and outdated by the time it is ready to be actioned upon in the classroom.
Schools should facilitate children being able to learn to code, but I don’t think they should specifically teach it. A colleague of mine has taken on board running an after-school club for kids who want to teach themselves to code. She, and a boy in third class (yep, I know!!), work together to help the kids in the class when they want help, but other than that, the kids use the time to teach themselves rather than to be taught.
I don’t think it’s a particularly good idea, young people that want to code will find a way.into it.
CoderDojo exists for that reason and if the government wanted to get involved then they should invest in the CoderDojo project and work with people that actually know exactly what they are doing otherwise it will just be another boring subject. CoderDojo has all that covered they have demonstrators and all the course materials and it’s all packaged in a fun experience.
I’m a programmer.it has very little to do with mathematical knowledge. It’s algorithmic, you need to be able to calculate run time and space complexity, you can teach someone that I in an afternoon…
But you cant teach anyone that in an afternoon, you need to be mathematical minded to be able to write programs. People that cant hack these courses in college are usually people that struggled with ordinary level maths in college.
the concept of ‘Code’ in primary school most likely IS going to be about problem solving and not writing Java or Python.
In the likes of Coderdojo tools like Scratch are used to get kids thinking in a logical manner and breaking down problems into instructions.
If a basic coding and computer languages course was introduced into a primary level computer and technology module it would be a seriously worthwhile and intelligent step forward that would also be of massive benefit to the next generation. Don’t expect to see it happen anytime soon.
I think primary school is a bit early in fairness. A junior and leaving cert course in coding for those interested in pursuing a career in computer sciences would make more sense in my mind.
We should definitely be teaching the basics of our world in primary school with basic social, science and computer use classes being added in place of religious indoctrination but I think coding goes a bit too far.
CoderDojo is aimed at primary school….
I’m not so sure – the popularity of CoderDojo and similar courses already show that kids that age are well able for it. Now to be fair I’m only on about the very basic foundations being introduced at primary level but coding and computer logic requires a certain type of analytical thinking – if that type of approach is introduced at a young age it makes things a lot easier by the time secondary level education comes along. At the end of the day, by the time the age group we’re talking about today have graduated college, a knowledge of computer coding will be as vital as a knowledge of mathematics. We’d be wise to set the wheels in motion now.
And international UK they do Co.putwr science from age 5. A lot of it is problem solving
People are really underestimated how important basic understanding is important to the future. The suggestionthat only those interested should be taught misses the point that everyone needs a basic understanding. Software is here to stay and is in everyones lives now
should we apply that logic to the irish language jason, only those interested in perusing a career would have to do it?
Ah Tommy is back spewing his ignorance once more! You have however, in spite of yourself, brought up an interesting topic by using ‘perusing’ rather than ‘pursuing’… That is the type of system we should introduce. One where children can have a continuous assessment based on some kind of business model throughout their school years. It allows for students to focus on the area that they have a talent for. Tommy, as he often proves, has an excellent talent at being a troll but nothing else as he is a coward…
As Cillian says, the best thing for primary school kids is to learn logic and analytical thinking, and I would add, get taught maths properly.
Is everybody okay with coughing up hundreds of millions in taxpayers funding to support the infrastructure and training required to make this happen?
math is like eating your vegetables, it is ultimately very good for you. irish is like possessing the ability to speak to a rare form of, almost extinct, mountain goat.
A good description of yourself Tommy, you moron
To be fair, it should be the skill of learning a language that is taught, so Irish, French, German, Spanish, Chinese, Russian, Polish, whatever, something should be taught. In fact, I would go as far as to say two languages should be taught, such that we develop linguistic abilities like our European neighbours. Languages are easy to learn if taught right.
@Crabra, there are many courses already in place to do this. Google sponsor a Level 9 Course in TCD called 21st Century Teaching and Learning, which runs throughout a year, and will give teachers the skills, as well as tasking them with delivering those skills and technologies. I did the course this year, with a variety of teachers from Primary level to FE level. It was a great experience.
Oisin, just because you have a different opinion doesnt mean you can insult Tommy.
You would have learned that were you paying attentrion in primary school rather than making love to your Irish book.
scrap irish, use the time to learn two useful foreign languages. Spanish is a great language to have, Mandarin would be incredibly useful, as would German, French, Italian, all languages where the learner may actually use the language in a multitude of ways. Change language teaching from class time to language time, where you use the language and speak the language you are learning. ditch the books and focus on discourse only, bring the languages alive, use current affairs mazagines, sports newspapers etc. for any reading material. languages can be extremely easy to learn if made interactive from the very start, second most important thing is making it current i.e. no peig!!, finally a student must see utility from the very start, if the language (like irish) is viewed as having no other use than points then you will lose the battle straight away.
I know a french teacher unknown to his school a number of years ago ditched the books and curriculum and simply read L’equipe for six months in class. It was a boys school and he said the change was huge in the language ability of the class, they would read through the main sports stories and then watch the sports news of the previous day in french. Imagine something so simple and effective would be view upon with horror in the dept of education.
I once had friends visit from Finland and we were out for a hike, their 7 year old child’s understanding of nature, weather, the effects of climate, and geology was frightening. i’ll never forget what that darn six year old said to finish her lecture … “To understand the ocean, you must first smell the salt, ….. books have no smell’. I was dumbfounded!
TheWalking – I actually abuse Tommy not because of what he is spouting about Irish on this thread but his continuous trolling actions. If you kept an eye on him, you would realise he is a bigot and a disgrace to the Irish people and its all he understands… Thanks for caring about him however, maith an lead
Heard on the radio this morning. 3 hours a week spent on maths at primary Level. 3.5 hours a week spent on religion. Talk about having priorities wrong.
Agree with you on not enough allocated time for maths but the allocated time for religion is two and a half hours not three and a half. There is also two hours discretionary time a week which most teachers allocate to maths and language. This is at primary level for 1st-6th class.
Its amazing the influence media have. That is totally false. Maths has to be taught between 4h10 to 3h25 mins a week whereby religion is 2h30 mins (discretionary). I don’t teach religion I my school but I agree with priorities are wrong but whoever said that on the radio are completely wrong
Unbelievable. When did it creep up to 3.5 hours. There was a time fairy story time was just 12pm to 12:30. Which was 2.5 hours a week.
I heard it this morning too. Said 3 hrs for Maths and 2.5hrs religion. Ridiculous!
Should be more time spent on religion.
Yes, definitely!
It will teach kids to think critically and logically, and improve their problem solving skills.
(Note: I may be biased, being a software engineer….)
I’m a software engineer too, but i’d be against the idea of kids that young actually writing code. Teach them how to write pseudo code, and how to solve problems, and thats half the battle.
Of course, I’m not talking about starting immediately with C, Java, or anything else like it. Those languages would introduce some concepts which would not likely be suitable for (the majority of) younger children, and I can imagine just covering the correct syntax of these languages would take a long time
But the basics of logic, problem solving etc. can be introduced in an age appropriate way, without having them type out code. For example, a drag and drop type of IDE, like Scratch mentioned elsewhere, will allow kids to think logically while still grasping the fundamentals of coding (if statements, for loops, functions etc.)
Of course it wouldn’t be full code. At that age it would be using scratch and classes similar to coderdojo. That’s mostly logic based problems and pseudocode. Would love a CS subject in secondary. That would be fantastic!
Because the primary school curriculum isn’t overloaded as it is… Road safety? Get the teachers to address it. Stay Safe. Relationships and Sexuality. Water Safety. Swimming. Drama. Science. Music. Religion or Ethical Education. Art. SPHE. History. Geography. PE. And then a decent level of Irish, English and Maths. I actually think children leaning how to code is a fantastic idea but how about children actually engage in extra curricular activities that are arranged by their parents, outside of school time and stop dumping everything into primary schools.
If you want a career in religion then go to Sunday school in your own time .if you want to learn a skill which will give you a better chance of a real job then learn practice skills like coding.isnt education about preparing children for the real world after all.
You can learn how to code in your own time as well…..it doesn’t have to be the remit of a school.
Well yeah, same with English, Irish and Maths. The point is that religion is a personal choice not based in fact, nor does it equip you to take up jobs in a modern economy. Especially one like Ireland’s that crying out for developers.
Carl I never said it couldnt’t or shouldn’t be done in school, but it is also something which parents should be encouraging kids to do in their spare time.
Things like Scratch, Arduino, etc these are great coding learning tools and teach kids about logic, etc.
We cannot say about everything “oh that is the school’s responsibility”…..just like sx education in the 1980/1990′s parents shouldn’t think they can just absolve themselves of responsibility.
Maybe the 3 R’s first…
Definitely! My sons already learning the fundamentals of coding in school and absolutely LOVES it.
if ( isPayedLessThan(me, anyoneElse)) {
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The standard of IT equipment and training in our 1st and 2nd level schools is generally pathetic. Religion a priority over this type of education? Welcome to Ireland!
Training especially, we had a lab full of Macs and yet no teacher who could use them further than writing a letter in Microsoft Word.
Yes many schools are pretty well equiped Rochelle but thare are many which are not. They lack a dedicated IT rescources to keep things running and resposibility often falls to a teacher with limited technical ability. Getting third pary support isn’t always an option due to cost. An area the govenment has under resourced and poorly managed for a couple of decades now.
Maybe in secondary school…Primary school..no way
Why not? Tools like Scratch would be perfect for primary school. Teaches kids logic.
Remember reading a while back that kids at the age of 6 can understand difficult concepts better than at 16. Especially engineering concepts and quantum physics.
Hard to believe kids of 6 understand concepts better than kids of 16!! I do think coding maybe too difficult at a younger age! But i do agree the curriculum needs to be overhauled
Graham> when I was 6 I was programing in basic after a teacher showed us programing for about 1 hour. I wasn’t the only one either. Now there are better simpler tools to teach with.
The younger you are the easy you pick stuff up, It would be the same as learning to read or write for them.
Codor dojo is aimed at kids from 7 + and it’s amazing what they pick up. The only thing I have against Codor dojo is that me as a parent are not allowed participate in the class, though I have to stay with my kids. I don’t know how to code and would like to learn with my kids. The class is designed that the children all help each other out with problems.
Rachel, if they’re not letting you participate they’re doing it wrong! I mentor at the local Dojo and as far as we’re concerned if the parents are coding too then all the better. Worst-case situation is the kid trying to learn while the bored parent plays with their phone.
We had BBC basic machines at school when I was a nipper.
We need to make sure we have people who can use lower gen languages. Not much use if people can only use 4GLs.
Pointless. All that’s been done at school over last fifteen years is add in sphe, drama, etc. All this has taken time away from core subjects like maths, English and Irish. All this will do is take more time away. What we have then is a system where we teach a little bit of everything and nothing in any substantive way. Populist nonsense.
Sean , you teach a child to code and you teach them a number of different skills that will be beneficial to them their whole lives,
More relevant than gaeilge anyway…
Question’s to be asked are the teachers qualified to teach it.? Where do we fit it in? With all the other subjects to be taught like, english, irish, math, p.e., bulling, diet, sex ed, SESE, computers, internet safety, art, music, the list goes on & getting longer each year. what subject do the schools drop or cut back on. There is only so many hours in a day. Do all schools have enough up to date computers to teach coding as I bet there are schools with computers which are out of the stone age. Schools can just about afford the esb, heating bills & I bet that up to date computers are down on the list of things required in the schools.
Basic coding is probably one of the few areas where stone ages computers are perfectly suitable. Although that doesn’t apply if you’re planning on running the latest tools which technically you don’t need.
Programs such as scratch can teach the basics of programming to anyone with little or no training necessary. This is what I would be advocating in primary school. Not syntax heavy high level languages.
Yeah you’re probably right. I guess coding classes from a more conceptual viewpoint would have more value than spending hours debugging null pointer exceptions.
Think about how competitive we could be if we taught coding from a young age. So many big tech companies in Ireland already, lack of homegrown talent is one of the major barriers stopping us from pushing on.
Such a missed opportunity. They’ve been teaching C++ in secondary school in Romania for years now.
Can’t see this going down well with the teaching unions
Yes definitely, and should also have workshops for making projects with things like Arduinos and Raspberry Pis.
I think learning programming with the likes of an Arduino is far more beneficial than some “Fisher Price” IDE. There’s very little involved in turning on/off an LED light on an Arduino and you’re moving towards more practical projects rather than printing out text on a screen.
Yes, There are only 10 type of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don’t.
At secondary level i think it should 100% be an option in with Technical drawing, Art & Music
Technical Drawing? Loved the subject but it is so not for everyone and is also behind the times. CAD has replaced the majority of skill learned in school.
Which is why at leaving cert it was replaces with Design and Computer Graphics and has been for 6+ years now. The basic skills are still useful to learn at junior cert to prepare for it though
Take irish and religion out and put coding in
It’d be a great idea and the kids would enjoy it as well, it’s so easy to find practical applications for the theory that’d actually interest them like creating basic games or websites.
And a foreign language such as spanish or french.
Agree, it’s embarrassing that we do not know any other useful language other than English.
Couldn’t agree more. My nephew is two. He lives in Germany with a Dutch mother and my brother who obviously Irish. He was visiting us a few weeks back and was talking a combination of German Dutch and English and my brother throws the cupla focal into the mix as well. He have some opportunities in life with at least 3 useful languages under his belt by the time he starts school.
Good idea but all spin. In my kids primary school there are 2 computers, one for the principal, one for the secretary. The teachers hold runs, car boot sales, etc to raise money to keep the place afloat. The department won’t fund it so who will? Underfunded schools? The minister would be better of sorting out the Junior Cycle mess rather than trying to buy cheap publicity.
It’s more complicated than a simple Should children learn coding at school. The answer is yes of course this is a very good idea but this can only be done properly if the government is to provide the relevant resources – ensure there is Proper wi-fi in all schools. A grant for new Laptops and other necessary equipment. Training for teachers with a particular interest in computers /coding. Additional funding for maintenance of such equipment. I like the polls that are in the journal but more often than not yes / no / i don’t know are too simplistic.
Why would anyone vote that they shouldn’t? Is ignorance still really so valued in ireland?
This should have been done a long time ago.
Definitely remove religion from the curriculum and let the parents send their child to religion studies outside of school time if they so wish.
Coding for kids is far more beneficial and really sets them up for the future. It can bed one in a fun way that makes it exciting and interesting.
*be done
I think a class for healthy food would be usefull. Most people don’t know the rubbish they be putting in their body until they get older. It would also save the government a fortune in health care
Religion class if done right should help round a child. Swap it for coding – not in my book. The practicalities of a subject should have nothing to do with what is on the school subject list. Everyone thinks English is valuable. Kids don’t use it in school and when you look at the commentary here they do not use it when they leave either. Add it for one period a week to give a head start and see what interest they have in it.
Ah come on now, Understanding how computers work, Crafting your own websites and maybe start a technology business, they can hardly write their name at that age for heavens sake, the only ones that would benefit from that class are the teachers
And yet Coder Dojo is incredibly popular all over the country.
You’d be surprised how quickly kids can pick up these sorts of concepts. Programming isn’t like reading or writing where you need to spend countless hours memorising shapes and words and sounds. It’s mostly just raw logic that our brains are built to deal with.
Voted yes because it’s a decent idea in theory. But if there are resources free for this, I’d prefer to see them invested in reduced class sizes and improved maths competency and literacy levels, at least for the moment. While kids are reaching secondary level without basic maths and literacy skills, the primary system is failing. I’d also have my doubts about how this would be implemented, and who would do it.
In Microsoft and Apple stores in the US, they have these classes for kids…. I sat in and listened to a class one day while I was out shopping. Sat there for about an hour and learned quite a bit myself :-) I work in I.T., but I’m not a Software Engineer. They explained basic principles very clearly and the kids were coding away during the class making little apps and games… Fantastic facilities and a great idea. Surely someone like MS can work with the Irish government on creating a curriculum that can be rolled out pretty quickly…. though in saying that, the resource blockage may be on the government/Dept.of.Education side…
http://www.techlicious.com/blog/microsoft-store-kids-coding-youthspark-summer-camp/
While we’re at it, could we also teach every kid basic first aid? As the recent story about the two Wexford teenagers saving that little boy in Turkey shows, you never know when you might need it. They learned their CPR through scouting.
Those who can’t do code will somehow feel inferior or deficient and obviously this minister has no sense whatsoever that this imposes a type of cruelty on some students . I have watched mathematicians run amok with astronomical principles and insights as the type of reasoning and approaches to observations doesn’t allow the same process as in mathematics. Because of the aggressive strain of Royal Society empiricism it is very difficult to explain to readers why things are so out of kilter presently however a decent description does exist through Pascal, the problem is that mathematicians can’t help themselves and try to substitute ‘intuitive’ with ‘guesswork’ when Pascal means something entirely different. He is not entirely right but is close enough and is for those who feel inferior unnecessarily -
“The difference between the mathematical and the intuitive mind.–In the one, the principles are palpable, but removed from ordinary use; so that for want of habit it is difficult to turn one’s mind in that direction: but if one turns it thither ever so little, one sees the principles fully, and one must have a quite inaccurate mind who reasons wrongly from principles so plain that it is almost impossible they should escape notice.
But in the intuitive mind the principles are found in common use and are before the eyes of everybody. One has only to look, and no effort is necessary; it is only a question of good eyesight, but it must be good, for the principles are so subtle and so numerous that it is almost impossible but that some escape notice. Now the omission of one principle leads to error; thus one must have very clear sight to see all the principles and, in the next place, an accurate mind not to draw false deductions from known principles.
All mathematicians would then be intuitive if they had clear sight, for they do not reason incorrectly from principles known to them; and intuitive minds would be mathematical if they could turn their eyes to the principles of mathematics to which they are unused.
The reason, therefore, that some intuitive minds are not mathematical is that they cannot at all turn their attention to the principles of mathematics. But the reason that mathematicians are not intuitive is that they do not see what is before them, and that, accustomed to the exact and plain principles of mathematics, and not reasoning till they have well inspected and arranged their principles, they are lost in matters of intuition where the principles do not allow of such arrangement. They are scarcely seen; they are felt rather than seen; there is the greatest difficulty in making them felt by those who do not of themselves perceive them. These principles are so fine and so numerous that a very delicate and very clear sense is needed to perceive them, and to judge rightly and justly when they are perceived, without for the most part being able to demonstrate them in order as in mathematics, because the principles are not known to us in the same way, and because it would be an endless matter to undertake it. We must see the matter at once, at one glance, and not by a process of reasoning, at least to a certain degree. And thus it is rare that mathematicians are intuitive and that men of intuition are mathematicians, because mathematicians wish to treat matters of intuition mathematically and make themselves ridiculous, wishing to begin with definitions and then with axioms, which is not the way to proceed in this kind of reasoning. Not that the mind does not do so, but it does it tacitly, naturally, and without technical rules; for the expression of it is beyond all men, and only a few can feel it.” Pascal
Better we taught them maths first.
A child doesn’t need to be coding at 6 years old to be a great programmer but they need to be competent at maths by 12 years old to have any hope.
The fundamental concepts involved in coding are mathematical. If someone understands maths on a conceptual level, learning to program (at any age) becomes easy.
This policy of pushing coding on kids will have not produce great programmers, just lots of programmers.
There is more to programming than “coding”, which in fact is one of the easiest parts. Teach maths well, logical thinking and scientific reasoning….don’t worry about coding; when the time is right they will pick that up quickly.
While I don’t think coding in primary school is the right solution, I am glad to see the govt at least looking for ways to keep our IT sector filled.
If it were a choice given to parents they would opt for code lessons in place of Irish lessons.
3D modelling should be facilitated in schools as a way to integrate design, programming and problem solving skills.
Primary school kids should learn: 1. Mental Arithmetic – no finger counting or calculators allowed;
2. Reading, including reading aloud and the memorisation of poetry;
3. Writing, especially cursive neat calligraphy and including strict attention to grammar, spelling and punctuation;
4. The Ten Commandments, with special attention to stealing, killing, respect for girls and parents;
5. Irish and world geography – by age 10 every child should be able to find Germany, Russia, China, Africa and Australia in an atlas. They’ll find America soon enough;
6. Basic Biology, natural and environmental studies;
7. How to swim, ride a bike and use a toothbrush, make a cuppa and boil an egg;
8. Whatever else, including Coding – whatever that may be. Are portable phones and their gadgetry that important?
I’ve said it before, I would have loved to learn coding in either primary or secondary. I think this is a very good move.
http://www.henryagiroux.com/
https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/347253-episode-max-keiser-929/ See the Henry Giroux interview?
What way is our education system going and what will it become? The globalisation of education can be dangerous?
I so badly want my kids to learn to code. It’s where all good future employment prospects will be.
Yes defo they are doing coding in primary school in the states as a subject
Auld wans need to realise that coding is not the answer the all life’s problems! Some people are good at coding and really enjoy it! Whereas some would hate it…maybe stop forcing children to do mandatory subjects would be a better way to go
Could something more useful like basic medicine be better, we should learn how to read and look after ourselves surely!!!??? I’m not putting down coding at all but maybe that could come after more important subjects? The whole education needs to be restructured, get out from under the thumb of the church, change teaching methods, subjects etc… Just a thought…..
Honestly, any programming language will be of far more use to them in future than Irish is now. A perfect alternative. For those who believe Irish should still be on the curriculum, I respect your beliefs even if I do not share them and would also suggest replacing religion with programming as an alternative.
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