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MAKING MISTAKES IS the worst part of being a doctor. I have made errors of judgment and technique, committed sins of omission and commission. I have erred through inattention, inexperience, inadequate supervision or equipment.
We doctors work in a charged environment of stress, overwork and constant disruption, a fertile ground for error.
To the best of my knowledge I never caused a patient’s death but I’ve been lucky on several occasions and have had colleagues bail me out on more. Like most doctors I remember the detail of my errors and the guilt and shame I felt on account of them are burnt onto my mind.
I have written before about attention to detail. And that’s important given that I spend a large part of my working week staring down a 2.5mm lens into colons covered in mucus and human faeces looking for things ranging in size from the full stop on your screen to a small wart that might one day grow up and kill someone.
Blame and shame
Medicine has long fostered a culture of blame and shame where we have tried to divide doctors into two groups: those who make mistakes and those who do not. And we believe if we weed out the latter all will be well. This is a fantasy that does patients a disservice. If people can’t open up about mistakes, how can others learn?
How do we get the small voice in the back of the head of the doctor who has erred and, not had it been noticed, to put their hand up and report it?
It won’t happen in a culture where condemnation and calls for resignations, sackings and prosecutions from the fevered hothouses of social media, traditional media and parliaments have become the norm.
In addition, legal advocates for patients harmed by error provide an invaluable and much-needed service but their pronouncements on cases they are involved in should not be treated as independent unbiased analysis by the media and politicians.
Error rates
In Ireland, error in Medicine has been thrown into sharp focus by a number of tragic incidents that have come to light, most recently a lookback review into the work of a locum radiologist (a consultant who reads CT, Ultrasounds and X-Rays) employed in University Hospital Kerry from March 2016 to July 2017.
Numbers can seem cold, but 46,234 scans read by this doctor were reviewed on foot of concerns having been reported of missed diagnoses.
The doctor was accurate 97.04% of the time. Of the remainder 105 (0.22%) had findings of potential concern. Eleven patients (0.023%) were then identified as having a clinically significant unreported finding in the original report which led to a delay in diagnosis and treatment, four of whom have since tragically died.
This knowledge will add to the grief and pain of those affected and it is they who should be at the centre of people’s attention and sympathies.
To provide some context, of the 1 billion scans performed worldwide every year, the day-to-day error rate is estimated to be at least 3-5%.
We must always strive to reduce error and the circumstances of the individual cases are unknown, but the raw data revealed by this forensic audit has revealed the performance of a locum working flat-out at an understaffed, under-resourced medium-sized district hospital in rural Ireland lies very much at the high end of what is expected.
I understand why medical error arouses strong passions. I am both a patient and a relative myself and I know how medical error feels from those sides too. But if we are to move to a place of accountability, safety and quality improvement then honesty and facts are the keystones.
A frequent frustration for many commentators is talk of systems failures rather than individual culpability when hospitals fall short. Designing systems that minimise the impact of inevitable human error is the life’s work of safety trailblazers.
In a “just culture” front-line staff feel confident to speak up when things go wrong. People are not punished for actions, omissions or decisions which are commensurate with their experience and training, but gross negligence, wilful violations
and destructive acts are not tolerated.
A just culture prioritises patient safety, enables organisations to learn from their mistakes and quietly saves lives.
It would rigorously investigate and see what could be learned from what happened in Kerry but would also notice that the overall error rate was exceptionally low even by the highest international standards and ask what could be learned from that too. A just culture is the only ecosystem that will allow Open Disclosure to truly flourish.
It’s important that everyone understands the limits of the people and the technologies that we rely on for our healthcare. The slow grind of quality improvement is all about attention to detail and we must take it seriously because lives depend on it. The excellent recommendations of the Kerry report are mainly about structures and systems, peer review and audit, as they should be.
They speak of giving doctors dedicated time and space to engage in quality improvement, defining safe workloads, things I found to be cherished when I worked in the US and the UK but is perceived as a waste of time by managers here.
Follow the seanfhocail
Lucian Leape and Don Berwick of the US Institute for Healthcare Improvement’s work is decidedly unsexy: they study the management of healthcare systems, using scientific evidence to improve the trade-off between quality, cost and safety.
But their work is important. Leape’s seminal Error in Medicine paper in 1994 estimated 44,000-98,000 deaths occur annually due to medical error.
Renowned surgeon, author and patient safety advocate Atul Gawande once wrote: “No matter what measures are taken, doctors will falter, and it isn’t reasonable to ask that we achieve perfection. What is reasonable is to ask that we never cease to aim for it.”
Gawande devised a two minute pre-surgery checklist which when implemented resulted in a reduction from a 25% likelihood of missing key life-saving steps in an operation to a 6% likelihood: a 75% reduction in error. Again, decidedly unsexy, but literally lifesaving for a silent multitude of patients.
The first thing that greets you on the Vision, Mission, and Values page of the Leape and Berwick’s Institute for Healthcare Improvement website is this:
There is an Irish proverb that says that ‘When you come upon a wall, throw your hat over it, and then go get your hat’. At IHI, the spirit of this one little saying has inspired many big outcomes.
It will strike many people as ironic that this global leader in patient safety looks to an Irish seanfhocail for inspiration.
The future wellbeing of our health service and safety of our patients demands we take the fruit of their labours and implement them here.
Anthony O’Connor MD, MRCPI is a Consultant Gastroenterologist at Tallaght Hospital.
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15% of fatalities are speed related. What causes the rest? Why not tackle those issues? The cynic in me sees this as a council revenue raising exercise.
How many were pedestrians crossing roads at places other than at the lights or pedestrian crossing ? Cyclists cycling either without lights or due care?
How many of those non drivers who do not abide by the rules of the road got fined? Charged with dangerous behaviour?
Cuffe your a green fascist who hates the car, your party sat in government and allowed FF to destroy this country! While your members shared around ministerial pensions so you all milked the Irish taxpayer. The carbon tax your party brought in has old people every winter sitting in freezing homes while your well off mates get conservation grants to do up their middle class homes.
You and your party are only selfinterested and to my mind hate the Irish people
More nonsense. Using the death of that boy in Kilkenny as a “what if” example is pretty shittie too
Maybe introducing ‘jay walking laws’ @30 euros a pop will stop pedestrains crossing where they should not. That would raise far more revenue.
Chris..exactly what you said.
As a motorcycle rider I see the pedestrians a way bigger issue than the other cars. Constantly crossing on red without even looking left. Hordes of people crossing on red in the city centre in front of Gardai and they didn’t bat an eye. The city could make millions just by giving fines to all of those jaywalkers
Now we will have the cyclists passing out the cars a sure way to make them safer!!
I don’t understand that comment. How can only 15% of road deaths be speed related? In what context is that stat formed?
To me that is saying that 85% of road deaths would still have occurred if one or more of the parties were driving slower. This is obviously ridiculous and untrue.
It’s more likely to mean that there were only 15% where someone was actually breaking the speed limit which is a total red herring. The speed limit is 60mph where I live but you’d be driving extremely recklessly to get anywhere near that on most parts of the road.
In the context of 30kph limits in city centres, it feels slow in some places, and perfectly adequate in others.
Anyone that drives faster than this in areas of heavy footfall is driving irresponsibly anyway, so why not enforce it?
In my experience, people have an attitude to say if it’s not my fault then it’s not my concern. Try telling yourself that when a child runs out in front of you and you have been driving 50kph 2m from a kerbside in town. The rest of your days will be spent thinking, I killed a child. Not, it was the child’s fault.
Cuffe your bunnyhugging party are the reason that road tax on 2lit diesel vehicle here in Portugal is €49 yes €49 per year and in Ireland the exact same car is €701 ! Dont forget that there are people who reside outside the capital too and due to the lousy public transport system are forced to have cars.They are being screwed by your sorry lot. Remember next time you vote it was the Greens who did this!
Still no road tax in this country.
15% of fatalities seems like a low enough figure and yet, that’s all the gardai and the RSA seem to care about. I ride a motorbike and my biggest concern is people driving while distracted (by their phone, the newspaper, the kids in the back seat, their breakfast etc) and side swiping me when they drift out of their lane. Pedestrians in Dublin City Centre are a real problem, walking out into traffic between vehicles without looking or looking in the other direction. There’s so much more the government could be doing about all of the problems on our roads instead of the money making ones.
Well said Chris Mcdonnell. Bravo.
Slava just do what I do. An R1 revved to fook will clear all pedestrians.
Just letting you know an 08 version would be say €200 for the same car, maybe time for an upgrade, would save €1000 in 2 years and your car would save you money in fuel bills too. The extra costs would be heavily negated by savings. I agree €700 is a total rip off though
This is true, you will blame yourself, however it was the child’s fault, or the fault of the parent, this should be taken into account when legislating.
Perhaps the child would still be alive if the car was travelling at 30kph, even if exactly the same part of the car hit the child.
In this case, I would say that at 50kph speed was an attributing factor in the death of a child. There was no crime committed, and speeding was not the issue, but speed definitely was.
Would this come into the 85% or the 15%? This is what I am unclear on.
To apportion blame is beside the point. The point is someone died who would not have died if the car was travelling slower.
I am spending a lot of money having a high powered classic car restored for my son, I own seven high powered motorbikes, I own a high powered 4×4. I have gone on the Nuremberg track but only a person with an extremely small penis would want a high speed limit in an urban area. If it happens that someone walks out in front of a vehicle the slower the vehicle is going the better the chance of survival for everyone involved. Only someone with the brain the size of a pea would not be able to comprehend this!
I know someone that accidentally stepped onto the road because she was texting her mother after being told she had been accepted for a job. She got hit by a car and killed instantly. She was wrong but does she deserve the death penalty for making such a small mistake? If the car was going slower than the 30mph speed limit she would have probably survived!
Every road user has a duty of due care, this extends to pedestrians crossing roads, cyclists (I’m a cyclist), and yes even taxi drivers…. Speed is only one factor in road deaths, there has to be a careless or stupid act by one party first. E.g. stepping onto the road without looking, driving whilst texting, or breaking a red light.
T, your absolutely right but there are very few people abiding by these speeds no matter what they are set at.. that’s the real problem.
t, like cuffe, that is an anecdote that is not backed up by facts. speed limits in Ireland are primarily revenue generation based on a single accident that may/may not have involved speed. in nearly every case shown it would be better to invest in footpaths, cycle lanes and, if near towns, traffic controls. emphasising artificial speed limits on roads that are capable of higher speeds is cynical, and fails to address the actual cause of the 50% of the 50% of the road deaths that are presumed in this article to be at the fault of driving 50kmh rather than 30kmh.
Do you mean the nurburgring
@Miriam O’Keefe, “15% of fatalities seems like a low enough figure and yet, that’s all the Gardai and the RSA seem to care about.”
That’s because speed is something that can be measured easily, but you can’t measure safe driving in kilometres per hour – if the 15% figure is true, that means that 85% of deaths are caused by , but these things are harder (but by no means impossible) to quantify. Here’s a interestingly relevant quote:
“Measure what’s important, don’t make important what you can measure” – US Secretary for Defence Robert MacNamara, on hearing that the US military were using the number of enemy structures destroyed by carpet-bombing as a measure of military success in Vietnam.
In all fatal incidents, speed has to be a factor. The damage done in a collision is a function of the energy involved and kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the velocity. To put it simply, a crash at 45 kph will be doubly as a similar impact at 30kph.
The attitude on this forum sums up the attitude throughout Ireland generally, and indeed throughout the world. Our obsession with cars means we do not comprehend the carnage they cause. We have article after article going on about 7 gangland killings this year, as if there is some sort of massacre going on yet no-one notices that 10 times that number have died in crashes already this year.
Cars a very useful tool and essential to our society, but what other tool would we tolerate cutting us down in such numbers year after year?
*doubly as devestating
@Gus – proof that hitting a child at 30 won’t be lethal please (vs 50 kph ). In both cases it will be horrific. RSA stats are based on Garda information so you’re just going to have to take it from them that 85% of cases won’t improve by this case raising stunt.
Darwin in action I’m afraid
Knowing that accidents and misjudgement are inevitable, should we not there for take account of this and reduce the speed limit and so reduce the probability of death?
They plan to enforce this rule all the way to Leopardstown, Blancnhardstown and Baldoyle, also everywhere in between, THAT’S 18 Miles an hour. My car although nothing too special does 30MPH in first gear!
John M, you are suggesting that the force behind a collision has no bearing on the damage it does. I really can’t understand how you would think that.
Anyone who would boastfully list their collection of high powered vehicles and extreme driving exploits on a news article comments section might have a very small penis indeed..
I don’t think ‘hate the Irish people’ quite covers the Green’s philosophy. They hate all people and disrespect logic.
@Gus, I’m suggesting no such thing. I’m suggesting that there is a threshold involved and it’s not 50 and not 30. The solution is not having the accident in the first place. Anything else is just messing to dress up statistics. And raise cash of course.
One aspect missing in this debate is quantitative risk factor. 2 billion road journeys taken each year in Ireland results in negative statistics that don’t even compute its that infinitesimal. Indeed you couldn’t even legislate to eradicate it. Yet we focus on this one thing, and spend inordinate resources on catching offenders. Suicide accounts to fatalities 5 times greater any yet because there is no revenue to be taken from this its shoved on the back burner.
@Martin C: That’s because you can’t measure the causes of suicide, so it’s harder to develop a strategy to address it. Speed(ing) is easily measured, so we go for that (and it’s a revenue raiser, which helps). We go for all the easy, binary, sound-bite-friendly stuff (speeding, smoking ban, plastic bag tax, etc), but the grey-area, non-binary things (suicide, homelessness, the real causes of road deaths) are too tricky, so we don’t bother with that stuff so much…
Your comment is laden with supposition and assumption.
The greatest crock of crap I have ever heard. If you try to drive at 30 kph you will be run off the road by taxies ,white van men, busses and other cars. FFS cyclists go faster than 30 kph. This is nothing other than a revenue stream .
A bicycle can got over 30 kph but they aren’t doing that in the city centre. I have two speedometers on my bike as one is the electric motor (still classed as a bicycle) and it hit 25kph practically instantly. It is rare another bicycle passes me and normally takes some distance before they can catch up or pass. Only really happens if there is a snarl in traffic.
As for cars in 30 kph zones they are flying past at speeds way greater than 30 kph. They pass way too close, it is 1.5m distance for a car to pass a cyclist. lucky to get the 0.5m.
Enforce all laws now including cyclists for light breaking and illegal parking by cars. There should be point system for illegal parking like 3 time caught you get 2 points.
The hostility from drivers over any delay by a cyclist is absolutely crazy. The same delay caused by a driver is just ignored as normal traffic. There really needs to be something done about how people hate cyclists.
@Kal Ipers. There is no requirement to leave 1.5m for cyclists. That’s a request, not law. It does not, and cannot, apply where you cycle – in town. You are asking for an entire city lane to he effectively left empty to accommodate you ? Sorry, but no. Cars pass opposing traffic in less space. And as for “cycling” with an electric “bicycle” at 25 kph, the the question is: capable of (nearly ) vehicular speed limits, what happens when you creel an inattentive pedestrian? And why shouldn’t you have insurance when I at the same speed must ?
Firstly a bicycle is a vehicle and part of traffic. like any traffic ahead of you going slower you don’t have the right to drive dangerously around it. I assume you know very little about the physical world it you think being hit by a car and a bicycle is the same if they are traveling at the same speed. If I hit a pedestrian I am more likely to be injured and could even die as happened to a cyclist recently when a pedestrian walked in a cycle lane. That is why I don’t need insurance. Electric bikes are classed as bicycles and only power when cycling
If you try to drive under 30km/h, you will have to be very conscious of the speedometer because it is not an easy speed to maintain for any period of time. And if you’re preoccupied with the speedometer AND looking out for the Garda speed checks when you’re supposed to be watching the road, you are ironically more likely to crash than you would be at a more normal speed of 50km/h.
If you are not capable of driving within a speed limit you should not be driving.
Like most things you can get used to it. You go to 50 because you know the feeling in the car. Now you have to get used to 30, it is that simple. making it sound like you will be juggling too much. You can get sat nav that tells you when you are breaking the speed limit if is too much for you to be able to read a dial and control your car.
I understand now why you’re trolling me, lads. You’re both cyclists, aren’t you? Just like Cuffe himself!
Stop talking boll*x Cuffs, how many people have died on these roads in the past. Let’s hear the evidence that these measures will save lives. More of the same crap like the Gardai day of action last Friday where they set up on roads where they could easilyv catch motorists unaware between zones yet were conspicuously absent from black spots as usual.
It’s impossible to drive at 30mph through Inner City..wherever that is.
Kathleen they are planning to introduce the 30 kph limit for all Dublin city council area. Not Fingal or SDCC or any others just DCC area. Nothing to do with safety. Are they trying to replace s lost water revenue stream?
You hit the nail on the head Stephen. Have to find the money to pay the redundancy payments for IW. Then re-employ then back when it’s reintroduced under a different name with the same people employed on different contracts which will include a bigger way packet. Only in Ireland
More people are dying from gun crime in Dublins inner city than speeding these days. So let’s focus on speeding.
I think 30kph is ridiculous. Are the speed limits of Dublin proposed by experts or councillors? There are several roads in Dublin with limits that nobody adheres to because theyre so stupid. It’s handy for the Garai revenue raising units though.
Did you not read the article? 29 people dead last year, many of them cyclists and pedestrians, from accidents caused by drivers. And that’s only in the Dublin City area. 29 families grieving because motorists were not. paying attention
Gangland crime kills approx 10-15 people in the whole of Ireland every year. Drivers on the other hand kill almost 300 per year, every year. It’s not cyclists and pedestrians who are killing people, it’s incompetent drivers who get behind the wheel of a 2 ton weapon.
But sure don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
Well you clearly didn’t read the article as 29 people died in the last THREE years!
Please stop using the word “accidents”. There is nothing accidental about drivers knocking down pedestrians and cyclists.
It is called recklessness and carelessness and stupidity. Traits which are in plentiful supply in Dublin amongst drivers.
@inanimate carbon rod … “Drivers on the other hand kill almost 300 per year, every year. It’s not cyclists and pedestrians who are killing people…” … So all of those deaths are 100% the fault of the motorist??? Consider that some cyclists and pedestrians are killing THEMSELVES by not paying attention and behaving like wombles.
If the reduced the limit to 10 KM/hr it would save even more lives. This is the height of nonsense, an brings the whole system into disrepute. All systems require balance, and Dublin city centre is fast becoming unwelcoming to everyone.
“They”, “and”.
The right to life only applies to the foetus, is that the case Paddy?
Paddy cuffe hates the car, he doesn’t need one not like those of us who depend on the car for work and can’t use public transport
I think pedestrians and cyclists need to be more educated on using the roads the amount of time I see cyclists sitting on the blind side of an articulated truck at traffic lights is unbelievable.
The guy pushing this is a huge cycle enthusiast so he is thinking on emotion rather than using logic. Besides speed limits won’t slow someone down when then want to get somewhere in a hurry
Cuffe, you could start practicing what you preach. I have seen you on your phone, no hands cycling sending texts and emails Not watching where you are going and you have the cheek to tell others what to do.
Yes mac dara powell that is exactly whats needed, because cyclists and pedestrians mow down hundreds of people on the road each year here, don’t they? Just try slowing down, it will lengthen your journey by a few minutes at most, but there won’t be so many funerals about.
..Alan Cooke – I’d love you to get a pic of that for us !!
I think you’re missing the point Matty. Cyclists and pedestrians are a danger to themselves in the way they participate in road use. Many cyclists break traffic signals without even pausing, pull out onto roads without hand signals and render themselves invisible at night by not using lights. I have seen pedestrians actually run on to the road when they saw a car coming. Yet if something happens, the motorist is blamed. These other road users need to live up to their obligations relating to their own safety instead of going around all “I have rights”. What good are your rights if you’re lying in a hospital bed with 2 broken legs because you didn’t look where you were going.
I can understand the 30kmh limit in the city where there’s a lot of interaction between cyclists, motorists and pedestrians but extending it is not an answer.
Out of the 29 deaths in the past 3 years speed had little to do with it, a lot came from trucks turning and knocking bicycles then there was that bus that mounted the pavement killing I think five people a few years back,not to mention drunken pedestrian and lack of barrier protection for pedestrians.
I’m all for motorists sharing the space a lot more for pedestrians and cyclists
But Why not just say Ciaran that you’d prefer less cars in the city and stop using people’s car reg as a central billing system?
Same as the banks lousy counter service to frustrate the people away.
It is rare enough for a cyclist to be killed that way. I think there have only been 2 or 3 in the last three years. The drivers were found at fault in each case as far as know too.
There has been 3 deaths so far this year from cyclists going up the left hand side of a truck turning left
Dude, you are trying to convince people that will never be able to afford a mean Italian thoroughbred unless they win the lottery. They are low earners and the only way they think they can be better than anyone else is by showing off speeding in their cheap cars.
OK but increase the speed limit on motorways to 140
Everyone will do 160 then
Until motorists know how to use motorways and leave speed limit as is. Most of them think the driving lane is the hard shoulder and lane hogging is not an offence. They also think if a lane higher is in lane 4 is that everybody has to queue behind.
..@Stephen….. no shortage of 160 kph drivers as-is…..and no accidents from it either. ..
Try driving a minibus at 30k..madness…excess fuel use..echo ????
Why not have a man walk in front of each car carrying a red flag and nobody would ever get killed? 30 km/h is a ridiculously slow speed.
BTW, we have little boreens down here, where the limit is 50 km/h, and that’s way too fast.
I think you meant 80km/h on the boreens.
Yeah it’s around 50 mph, my mistake.
Will these new speed limits result in the removal of the speed ramps…Because at 30kmh, you’d find it hard to ascend over some of them!
It is almost impossible to drive a car at 30km/hr in suburbia. It will burn the gearboxes out of every car in Dublin or criminalise the entire population , I suspect the latter
That’s just not true.
The clutch would give out long before the gearbox.
Taxi drivers will just have to give jockey backs
Imagine sitting in a taxi at 30 km A taxi meter measures time and distance. That’s my taxi fare gone up. Cuffe you are a absolute arse-hool, and so are the morons who voted for you.
It’s about saving lives my hole, look at the numbers on suicide in this country over the last 6 years, it’s a serious issue, yet they go and rob €12m from mental health. They couldn’t give a toss about saving lives, it’s always about money in the end, no matter what they say someone somewhere is profiting.
Gerard. Well said. More people take their own lives every week than vehicle accidents. Also some of the stats for vehicle accidents would include single drivers deliberately crashing into wall at high speed. This isn’t about safety or the laws around pedestrians using designated crossings properly would be enforced.
Hit the nail on the head there! Countless more people take their own lives because of mental health issue and nobody turns uo to Dail debate on mental health and funding for it cut. But let’s reduce the speed limit in Dublin to 30kmh and nobody will ever again die. If you want to reduce Road deaths education is the way. Most accidents are caused by poor decision making and ignorance of good driving practice. Speed then exacerbates the damage.
Ciaran we need our cities to be more pedestrian friendly but we also need law enforcement and that is absent from Dublin City Centre.
Talks about wanting to save lives? Never once mentions the state of the roads. Same old, same old.
Why don’t pedestrians just stay off the bloody road and that will save MORE life’s ……and cross where designated
Pedestrians would cross at traffic lights if the idiot ignoramus drivers stopped breaking through red lights on a regular basis.
It’s highly dangerous.
Take their licence from them. That’ll solve the problem.
Just another strategy to get rid of cars from city centre. Would understand if there was a decent public transport alternative.
The big problem is that any motorist who obeys the 30 kph limit will infuriate impatient drivers. I made the mistake of obeying the limit and I was treated as a grannie driver, especially by young male drivers who were incandescent with rage. One got out at the speed traffic lights and hammered my car with his fists in frustration. Young male drivers are invincible and infallible. It’s all well and good introducing the limits but I’m highly sceptical that it will be observed by the vast majority of drivers.
Then prosecute them for dangerous driving and speeding. Otherwise you are saying their behaviour is acceptable. All it takes is enforcement
The problem is that enforcement will be lacking and only fines wil be imposed.
To quote Homer Simpson, “Sure we’ll save a few lives. But millions will be late!”
great idea except why not introduce it nationwide. I live on a country road 100kmh, is my life or that of my children worth less than those In big cities. why not make it mandatory for people to always wear hi viz, helmets, kneepads. or ban them from leaving their house. simple fact is some car hating dicks just want to make it impossible to be able to afford to drive. to save the “environment” bollix. setting unrealistic speed limits just means there is no point trying to stay below them.
Can common sense not prevail and reduce the speed limit during working hours, and increase back to current limits at evenings and night time.
I’d like to see how many of the deaths were drunk pedestrians at night.
Variable speed limits work on motorways reducing bottlenecks, The M25 in London is a good example of that. Not sure it would work on ordinary roads without supervision if the Gardai as people would tend to ignore it as they do with other road rules.
Variable speed limits on Irish motorways never work until they adopt the same rule on overtaking as UK.
29 people killed in 3 years. Although this is very sad for the family and friends of these people. It is not a statistically significant number. On any given day there are well over a million people not being killed in traffic. When looked at over 3 years you are talking about hundreds of millions not being killed in traffic. Roads in dublin when looked at this way are incredibly safe. It is very easy for the government to use tragic individual instances to justify placing restrictions on the people they are supposed to represent, but legislation should be looking at the big picture, using science and reason to back up any restrictions. To say no death is acceptable is naive. The world is a dangerous place. To overly bubble wrap everybody, removing all danger is to take away from the experience of living. People die, as tragic as that may be, it is part of life.
what is born mus also die your right there brucey
There is a complete in balance on road across all levels……motorists, pedestrians,cyclists and them fcuking rickshaws. If they implement this 30kpm everyone will be breaking the law except the motorist because everyone else will be going faster hence the imbalance.
What is wrong with some of you? Don’t break the speed limit and you won’t be fined. It really is that simple.
If they implement it and saves one life it will be totally worth it.
Give over whinging. It’s about saving lives.
Trevor if it’s about saving lives there are another 85% of fatalities that should be tackled. If we are worried about saving lives we could ban alcohol and ciggies.
Trevor. many Irish people are terrified of change and don’t want to live in a modern country.
30 across the whole area is ridiculous. I’ve no problem with it in the city centre areas and in housing estates, but Conyngham road?
How about a DART service that runs 24 / 7? How about real cycle routes, not the ridiculous and dangerous ones we have now?
Always targeting the motorist is lazy thinking.
@stephen,
The other 85% are just deemed as speed not being the cause. The severity of the accident is increased by the speed. At lower speeds less accidents happen too. It isn’t just a 15% versus 85%.
Country gone into overkill on the motorist for revenue most care and attention will be watching the speedometer checking speed a shuffling between 1 and 2 gear to stop the car shunting in 1st gear once you reach 19 miles per hr
Ireland has a culture of jaywalking. In fact, the howya’s and zombie junkies believe it is their god given right to walk in front of moving traffic. You will never legislate this problem away.
You sound like some muppet ‘I walked across the street and didn’t see the car coming’ You mean you didn’t look you fool. You missed out on a Darwin Award…shame
Ha Ha Dublin.
Soon you will be able to get out and walk alongside cars while they are moving.
I wonder how many of the 29 deaths in dublin over the last 2 years where accidents involving Garda chases ?? There have been quite a few… 30kmh is a ridiculous speed to expect any car to drive
We actually can’t afford these nut heads
I agree with reducing the limit to 30 but not giving someone a ticket for 35km. What I don’t agree to is that you won’t have to stop as much, this isn’t true. I know the light sequence of many of the junctions in Dublin, most times you need to speed to get through the next.
You don’t need speed to get through them, you just don’t have a free flow. The light sequences are part of the system to stop traffic build elsewhere. People have to get used to the idea that a car doesn’t mean you can travel at speed because you want to and disregard the safety of others
Nanny statism. Will only cause more accidents.
Have you no frogs to be saving Cuffe you waste of atoms
How is reducing speed on the roads a means of raising revenue? Reducing speed in other countries has worked in saving lives, that is why they were introduced. Whether a pedestrian is drunk or not, reducing speed provides better odds of surviving an accident. As for catching the poor unsuspecting speeding motorist, ; good, they shouldn’t be speeding, nor should there be any warning that traffic cameras are in the area.I can’t believe the negative , selfish comments here about proposals to save lives.
People won’t reduce the speed and its not enforced very well
Marie, the comments reflect the frustration of people who genuinely believe this is the wrong move made by an individual with an agenda and too much say on the issue. Mr cuffe .You don’t need a hammer to crack an egg .
More Green Party rubbish and false statistics from Cuff.
I was informed that Mr Cuffe was a member of the Green Party and now I am told its incorrect.
. My sincere apologies therefore to you sir.
I do however stand by what I said about the Greens!
I drove along Seville Place in Dublin at 30Kph last week. Apart from being blown out of it and being overtaken by cars and bikes, joggers were passing me.
Gobsh—ts
This looks to be yet another issue that many other decent cities are getting with just fine but people in Ireland will aggressively oppose any change.
Some people rather make up conspiracy theories than deal with the facts and learn from successes elsewhere.
Stopit the 30km speed limit in the city centre is there and it’s fine. Stretching it out into the suburbs is plain stupid.
This is crazy legislation. People should use designated crossing zones. Cyclists should obey the rules of the road. Whatever about city centre limits OK but extensive 30 klm limits is madnessI believe it’s a money making venture.
Some streets in Dublin 30kmh is too fast at certain times. Have you ever driven along Meath St in the Liberties especially on a Saturday during busy hours? There are many roads in residential areas with cars parked on both sides and just enough room to drive with children playing. So I have nothing against 30 or even 20kmh speed limits in areas like these. It all boiles down to driving at appropriate speed but unfortunately there is too high a variation between drivers on what speed is safe.
The 30km speed limit will definitely save life and lower speed limit definitely saved my life over a near miss a few years ago. I walked across the street and didnt see the car coming but too late when I did. I was saved by a few inches away from me after she pull the break and I know now these lower speed limits probably saved my life. So I’m delighted this has come about.
What do you mean you didn’t see it coming. Were you out of school when they did the safe cross code.
How do you know she wasn’t speeding and just stopped in time?
…you were obviously at fault then, crossing the road without due care and attention. ..
I was distracted for a split second and that is all it takes.
Well I wouldve known about it if he/she was any faster. Only seen the car in split second and thought for a moment it was too late.
True I admit that Tom. Just giving you my story. Accidents can happen but because dublin is a build up area its only right..
It wasn’t JUST the speed she was going that saved your life. The driver reacted well to your stupidity. If you were behind the wheel but at a much slower speed, you might still have made impact, if you don’t really have your wits about you.
There is a monstrous hysteria around ‘speed’. It plays well with the average punter and earns the State a fortune in fines. The problem is, in fact, inappropriate speed not just ‘speed’ per se. A far better metric of the risk a given driver poses is the number of harsh-braking events they generate each week -which is measurable … http://www.driveprofiler.ie
Agreed. As drivers it may frustrate us sometimes. As pedestrians we need to feel safe. Time to better share the public spaces of our cities, which mostly consist of our streets.
Surprisingly no mention of the man with a red flag walking in front of the car
All this will do is divert a drivers attention away from the road and onto their speedometer.
You only have to go on YouTube to see the amount of stupid drivers, cyclists and pedestrians regularly breaking the law or taking their lives in their hands. If this law punished these reckless idiots, as opposed to gouging everyone else for a few quid it would be a good thing.
You will also see the amount of idiots posting their videos while themselves holding a phone to film, driving up the arse of the car in front to get the reg. They are also breaking the law. Go to “Ned Kelly Ireland”, watch his videos and you’ll get a taste of hypocrisy.
This guy is a mental case. There us no way you can strive safely at 30 .
They are doing their better to kill off Dublin city. They wantbto keep it safe for the bloody idiots on the bikes who would cycle through you. Avoid Dublin its a kip thanks to these Green Party fools.
This is progress of a kind.
Now if people would stop treating their cars like electric wheelchairs literally joined with them by the hip, maybe we could have some meaningful street life.
Kids and old people who can’t drive will really welcome this because it is scary trying to cross a road where there is no light and people do not stop.
Reading the comments here is funny, people are so defensive about their cars/wheelchairs! amazing how a good marketing campaign can convince people that they literally cannot live without and object.
There are alternatives.
@ Barbra. I don’t want an alternative. I want my car, my motorbike. I like them. I pay €2,735 per annum on road tax. There is no way I’m doing that and NOT using them. In fact, quite the contrary, the more you tax the more ill use them, to extract some semblance of “value” for my money.
Maybe buses should have trailers to carry a few dozen plaster slabs, scaffolding along with planks, not forgetting my genny and tranny and a few dozen leads. I’ll carry me lunch meself
A bit offensive calling cars wheelchairs since those differently abled of us have special vehicles to drive around. Its a much better way to get around than unreliable busses or packed DARTS, and you want us to slow down for pedestrian’s idiocies of crossing from behind two parked cars with headphones in?!
We could have had a world class underground in Dublin for the price of the port tunnel. Objectors were the council and e few local business people connected to the government. Crossrail in London is being built in one of the most contested undergound networks yet they manage it with the city still moving. We still have Merrion gates and gridlock thanks to the Cieran Cuffe’s of this world. Get back on your bike you selfish man.
Should that not read “your chances of surviving a crash are dramatically increased at lower speeds”?
Crazy stats anything else you would like to do to slow down cars maybe square wheels, it’s impossible to maintain such a slow speeds
This is progress of a kind.
Now if people would stop treating their cars like wheelchairs joined with them at the hip maybe we could have some sort of street life. This is great for kids and old people who are the ones who are totally screwed by the roads here.
It’s also funny reading the comments here of people who are so defensive about their cars! Amazing how a marketing campaign can utterly convince such a big group of people that they cannot live without this object.
Ok a number of inaccuracies here
Speed doesn’t kill – failure to observe,understand and react appropriately does. This goes for everyone drivers pedestrians and motorists. Where is the education of road users ? Any road user should take initial basic awareness training
Some speed limits are stupidly inappropriate and should be realigned to the actual type of road etc. On some rural roads you couldn’t get a rally car down them at 80km/h but the local authorities say thats safe ?
Secondly a cyclist going 20km/h being hit by a car at 30 km/h will most likely suffer catastrophic life changing injuries but most of these will be caused by the bike and the poor safety equipment the cyclist is wearing- cyclists ploughing through traffic causes havoc along the quays every single day because they can legally move faster than the cars.
Thirdly lamp posts and the likes are all just beside roads in Dublin in most other areas the lamp posts are set back off the road or lights mounted on walks and buildings these are a major issue and cause pedestrian and cycling flows to mix road traffic as people navigate around them.
Technology exists to mitigate pedestrian impact and reduce injury. It’s got to be made mandatory and this will help in the long term
Only after all that stuff is done should you be looking at lower limits .
Another extremely dangerous piece of street furniture are the ‘Welcome to Drimnagh’, ‘Carruth Roundabout’ etc marked on pieces of granite. These are the fault of Dublin City Council, If thy wanted to save lives they’d stop putting these up and remove the existing ones. 30km/hr is ridiculous and Cuffe shouldn’t get away with suggesting it next time he’s up for election.
An increasing number of cars have a speed-limiter function….not cruise control…speed limiter. Set it to 30kmh and it will not let you exceed that speed, so no need for constant speedo monitoring. Once you leave the 30kmh zone just disable the limiter, or reset to a higher number.
This sort of speed limit is not unusual in other major European cities and life seems to go on.
When is Dublin getting methane- or electric-powered buses and taxis, and a decent light rail system? Probably never as there seem to be too many vested interests at play and no political will to solve real problems…just tinkering around the edges.
People wouldn’t be hit by cars of they weren’t on the road. I have yet to see a car mount the curb and kill someone, so is the pedestrian at fault for being in the wrong place?
30km/h limit is necessary to protect pedestrians and cyclists.
It must be enforced by the Gardai, otherwise it will be ineffective.
You can legislate and tax all you like, but Dublin will remain a car centric city until you give the public alternatives. The Bus service is unreliable and rarely follows the timetables displayed, the Darts are handy but limited to the coast, and the LUAS have their strikes firmly in action.
As for the speed limit, its painfully slow for the extended areas like Sandymount. I cycle round those parts and would have broken the speed limit if it hit 30. Just thinking of the frustrations in a car would drive me just as mad struggling to escape second gear.
Create park and cycle hub centers around the m50. Then people who drive from kildare, wicklow, meath, louth etc can park at center and cycle into city. Wont solve world hunger but it will take some of the cars out of the city. Pointless having motorists blame cyclists… cyclists blaming pedestrians. Fact is there is to much traffic on the tiny roads in city.
What about cyclists, I regularly see them travelling at 40-50 km/h down around christchurch
Also of those 29 deaths in dublin city center during the last 3 years how many of them were speed related ?
The 30km/h speed is appropriate in areas like oconnell street and certain parts of the quays among other places, to to just role it out all around dublin city center is just nonsense, as I said earlier will this speed limit apply to cyclists ???
Who released this shit man? Diff we not banish him and his rotten party but it seems that the bloody DIT have given him a platform to annoy us again.
Yeah let’s ignore the condition of the roads, and cyclists breaking lights at high speed left, right and centre.
Maybe they could film all of us everywhere and think for us. Jerks like you are driving people out of Ireland. By the way there are no cameras at the lights in Germany.
I agree that 30 is fast enough, as it allows for reaction & stopping not achievable St higher speeds I live on the Malahide Rd. & regularly note kamikaze speeding, & on one journey from Artane to Kinsaley, saw 3 different drivers shoot reds at high speed only last week. When will we have cameras on lights as is common in Germany?
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What about the vulnerable road users?
The cyclist that swerved into the middle of the road with no hand signals? Or the cyclist that breaks pedestrian/red lights?
The pedestrian too intent on sending their text message to watch where they’re going? Or in too much of a hurry to wait to be given the green light?
If the vulnerable road users actually obeyed the rules of the road there would be less fatalities.
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