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DEBATE ROOM Is the insurance industry to blame for spiralling insurance prices?

A damning new report concluded that lack of transparency from the insurance industry is a major contributing factor to the rising cost of motor insurance.

THE JOINT COMMITTEE on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform’s report found average premiums had increased by 37% in the past year. Some motorists have had premium hikes of 300%. The insurance industry argues that it has been losing money on motor cover, and that the high cost of claims is driving up premiums.

But according to the report, it’s the lack of transparency about the cost of claims and the lack of data – 70% of claims are settled privately by insurance companies – that’s the real problem. 

We asked Pearse Doherty TD and Kevin Thompson of Insurance Ireland to give their views.

Pearse Doherty, TD and Finance Spokesperson for Sinn Féin

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DID YOU KNOW you are to blame for a 70% increase in the price of motor insurance over two years? The lawyers, doctors and politicians are to blame too. Fraudsters, the EU and fly by night foreign firms are to blame too.

In fact blame is to be spread like a farmer fertilising a field. The only people who are not to blame for insurance increases are the insurance industry.

Insurance industry are insulting drivers

The above is the line the insurance industry has been admirably peddling for two years now. They have heroically stuck to it in the face of evidence from all sides that their argument does not stack up. They have spun and spun in an attempt to brush off the blindingly obvious. There are indeed many factors why motor insurance premium are increasing but the idea that the industry is blameless is absurd and is insulting to every driver.

Through a Freedom of Information request I have produced evidence that in August 2015 the Governor of the Central Bank was writing to the Minister for Finance pointing out that:

“a number of non-life insurance companies took a very optimistic view of the future economic outlook, built up an unsustainable overhead and followed an imprudent pricing and underwriting approach.”

In other words the industry made mistakes leaving itself exposed to shocks. In an age of zero percent interest rates the old model of relying on returns from investments and bonds has failed them and us.

Fraud and regulation

Of course, fraud, extra regulation and other factors contribute to the price of a premium. The question is how much have these factors changed. The answer seems to be very little so the answer to why premiums have increased cannot be put down to these static factors.

That is the approach taken by the Finance Committee in its report following my suggestion that it look at this issue, call in the stakeholders and report back.

I do not agree with every conclusion or recommendation the report reaches but its general finding that:

“the net impact (of the broken model) is that the insurance companies lost a lot of money and with motor insurance comprising 40% of the total market in Ireland, the obvious and “soft” means of re-capitalising and re-reserving was to target motor insurance premiums.”

Many of the solutions put forward by the industry are pure distractions or completely unworkable. They willingly spin the need for the Book of Quantum to reflect international norms. They know well that the Book of Quantum is merely a factual record of awards given and it can’t be made fit a certain narrative because the industry is uncomfortable with the facts.

Insurers haven’t been transparent

Most brazenly of all the insurers are still not prepared to accept that they have been less than transparent. Backroom deals, unrecorded awards and a lack of information to consumers suits only one side: the insurers.

The Finance Committee’s report identifies 12 actions needed to bring about more transparency and to empower consumers. That concentration is a reflection of the fact that expert after expert honed in on the lack of data and transparency as the key to bringing down prices.

Home, flood and health insurance are all now rising beyond inflation. Doubtlessly that is your and my fault too. Motor insurance is compulsory for all drivers. A private industry that is being investigated for anti-competitive practices cannot dismiss the anger and the social and economic effects of their decisions and mistakes.

The Finance Committee Report is a start in stripping away the excuses and calling out the insurers so they can start playing their role in the economy, a role which has earned them huge profits in recent years.

Kevin Thompson, CEO Insurance Ireland

RRP 511 Kevin Thompson Robbie Reynolds Photography Robbie Reynolds Photography

A CLEAR FOCUS on the causes is the only way to address motor insurance costs.

On reading the Oireachtas Finance Committee’s report on the Rising Costs of Motor Insurance, I was reminded of the words by Daniel Kahneman, who was awarded the 2002 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences:

“You build the best possible story from the information available to you, and if it is a good story, you believe it. Paradoxically, it is easier to construct a coherent story when you know little, when there are fewer pieces to fit into the puzzle.”

Or put simply, the apparently obvious story is not always the most robust.

The insurance industry accepts that its answers are complex and require people to accept the points made by the companies applying rising claims costs in premiums. This is understandable, but it does not give a green light to inaccurate statements.

For instance, the Committee stated that insurers failed “to supply supporting evidence” for our points. The Committee did not agree with our evidence, however Insurance Ireland published the sources for each assertion made on claims costs.

Transparency

Insurance Ireland’s opening statement to the Committee made clear our responsibility for past under-pricing and the impact of a falloff in investment returns. These are not the admissions of an industry with a “closed mentality”.

Much has been made of a supposed lack of data, yet data on all industry claims paid for 2013 and 2014 was provided to the Injuries Board to update the recent Book of Quantum, the reference guide for personal injury awards.

Similarly, insurers provide huge amounts of data to the Central Bank of Ireland, the industry’s independent regulator, for its reports. The most recent Central Bank “blue book” shows a key figure of an additional €200 million in claims costs in 2015 compared to 2014.

The motor insurance industry implemented and adheres to the recommendations addressed to it from the old MIAB – a body rightly praised by the Committee for its good work.

The industry recognises that more can be done in terms of data, however, surely it serves everybody to reflect the true cost for drivers and interrogate the information already available so we land on the right solutions instead of the path of least resistance.

The next steps – the right solutions

The Oireachtas Committee’s recommendations and the emerging recommendations published by Minister Eoghan Murphy are welcome, and reflect many solutions we have been calling for.

However, with so many recommendations the danger is we do not prioritise. If we are to move the dial on the cost of insurance then the focus needs to be on where the bulk of premiums are spent, which is the cost of claims.

As a first step, we must internationally benchmark the Book of Quantum. We also need to reinforce the powers of the Injuries Board to handle more claims and bring consistency to awards.

Whiplash must be tackled as it accounts for eight out of every 10 motor injury claims and awards here, and is three times the UK awards (€15,000 versus €5,000). Premiums are a function of the cost of claims, so high awards mean higher premiums.

If our actions are not correctly prioritised, we will not resolve the cost of claims issues affecting customers. Such failure can only result in further consumer hardship which would be an unforgivable missed opportunity.

So what do you think? Do we need more transparency and is it fair to blame the insurance industry? Let us know in the comments below.

Prime Time exposé to show how insurance fraudsters stage bogus crashes>

‘Thrown to the wolves’: There’s no justification for 300% price hike in car insurance, says committee>

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59 Comments
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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:22 AM

    Any other party losing 10% of its elected officials due to allegations of bullying etc would be considered in crisis.

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    Mute Rex Butts
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:26 AM

    @Honeybadger197:no crisis just weeding out the weak and vunerable, leaving just the killers, oh sorry that was a poor choice of word.

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    Mute David Huston
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:40 AM

    Usual predicable rubbish comments above

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:43 AM

    @David Huston: Usual vacuous point above, that conveniently ignores the content of the article. Deflect, deny, distract….

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    Mute Gordon Hughes
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:43 AM

    @Rex Butts: SF have a strict policy of weeding out all victims from their Cult/Party.

    And now they need permission to voice any opinion they have. Jesus they are one step away from a full dictatorship in their ranks . The furthest thing thing from a progressive party

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    Mute David Murphey
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:48 AM

    @David Huston: usual predictable response from you.

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    Mute George Oscar Bluth
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:56 AM

    @David Huston: To be fair losing 10% in a party this large is a crisis. These things do happen in other parties but much less infrequent. I don’t understand when people blindly follow a political party and fail to accept their obvious shortcomings. It’s nearly treated like its fake news, which it clearly is not. If this was happening in FF or FG it would be reported just as much.

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    Mute ChuckE
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:08 AM

    @David Huston: dessie ellis is convicted of terrorist activities. He’s a thug and has the party over a barrel. When the likes of Gerry O’neil in west wicklow are forced out to make way. The party has no real future in serious forward thinking political circles when this is the standard way of dealing with threats to other party members fron murderers and those threatening to hang the party out to dry to get a pay check

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    Mute Margaret Mcgarry
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:45 AM

    @David Murphey: the truth hurts

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    Mute Paul Linehan
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    Feb 10th 2018, 11:24 AM

    @Honeybadger197: All political parties went through the same thing. The more established parties encountered plenty of in house fighting during their inception and for many years after. In fact FF & FG only came about because of the difference of opinions in the original SF party. To say this type of political game playing is a SF phenomenon is utter codswallop!!!

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    Mute George Oscar Bluth
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    Feb 10th 2018, 12:00 PM

    @Paul Linehan: It claims to be the same party that was founded in 1905 by Arthur Griffith. That’s a long bedding in period unless it was only founded in 1970 and has no connection with the original party?

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    Mute Paul Linehan
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    Feb 10th 2018, 12:40 PM

    @George Oscar Bluth: And parties like Fianna Fail and Fine Gael claim to be founded from true republican values… Who’s pulling who’s leg???

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    Mute Rex Butts
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:23 AM

    Is anyone supposed to be surprised by this?

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    Mute D'Murph
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:35 AM

    @Rex Butts: ah sure it’s a Democratic Party that allows free speech lol lol lol

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    Mute MK76
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:58 AM

    @D’Murph: The Church of Sinnfeinology doesn’t allow free thought or communication. Anyone who attempts this will be deemed an SP and treated accordingly.

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    Mute James Mc Loughlin
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:51 AM

    @D’Murph: Free speech and living on the average industrial wage

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    Mute Paddy
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:29 AM

    Not as transparent as they tried to make themselfs out…

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    Mute Stephen Desmond
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:35 AM

    @Paddy: More transparent than your faceless fake profile at least ;)

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    Mute Gordon Hughes
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:39 AM

    @Stephen Desmond: typical deflection tactic used here . Wer jammin and many, mamy other faceless SF bots on the journal every day of the week . But you can ignore that fact ;) the cult has spoken ;)

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    Mute Stephen Desmond
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:50 AM

    @Gordon Hughes: If people want to post their vitriolic opinions why do they have to hide behind a veil of fake profiles? That’s a cowardly act in itself. Surely having such courageous opinions should warrant a real name/real profile to go with it.

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    Mute Sean
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:32 AM

    @Gordon Hughes: The SF heads always want to know people names and addresses. Wonder why that is? Nothing but thugs.

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    Mute Ben Calton
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:36 AM

    @Stephen Desmond: Hahaha! The irony of a shinner complaining about faceless cowardly acts.

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    Mute Gordon Hughes
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    Feb 10th 2018, 5:53 PM

    @Stephen Desmond: your 100% .. and the vast majority of SF contributions come faceless troll accounts that you speak of

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    Mute Stephen Desmond
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:20 AM

    Aaaaaand another Sinn Féin headline from The Journal to get all the people clicking :)

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    Mute Paddy
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:31 AM

    @Stephen Desmond: but they’re so news worthy, or should we just ignore the fact the party has major issues with bullying right across the country.

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    Mute Chris Finn
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:37 AM

    @Stephen Desmond: yes because we shouldn’t report significant things and should sweep them under the rug. Did you see the Fianna Fáil one yesterday they did. When it happens report it. It’s not the journals problem that Sinn Fein have a lot of them.

    They’re always going to have a lot of these issues when theyre a party that breed armchair republicans, knakers, troublemakers, murderers, violence, bombings, terrorism, Celtic jerseys, awful economic policies and don’t recognise the law and cover up sex crimes and bullying whilst being hugely disorganised and have mess ups all the time.

    I’m not saying Any other party are good they’re ALL terrible but to support Sinn Fein you’d want to be a new type of loser.

    Our true freedom fighters would turn in their graves.

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    Mute Gordon Hughes
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:39 AM

    @Paddy: How to deal with bullying .

    Threaten sanctions if they dare voice an opinion without asking for permission first .

    Ask for permission first !!! A cult has less rules ffs

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    Mute Chris Finn
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:40 AM

    @Chris Finn: lol their MINISTER FOR POLICING cut off a clamp the other day like I can’t laugh hard enough at that. If that doesn’t tell all what does…….Oh wait your minister for policing went to jail for attempted bombing of innocent people.

    What an absolute joke of a party. A vile organisation that also are an utter laughing stock who can’t get their sxxt to together

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    Mute Stephen Desmond
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:43 AM

    @Chris Finn: With anti-Republican hyperbole like that you’d definitely need to have a fake/faceless account to post here :)

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    Mute Gordon Hughes
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:48 AM

    @Stephen Desmond: your mean 100% facts chris has just commented with ?

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    Mute ChuckE
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:16 AM

    @Stephen Desmond: you dont consider this worth reporting ? You might be right. Murders and drug dealing are far more news worthy activities of Ellis and his mates

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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:26 AM

    @Paddy: But you all hate the party, do you not? why all the interest?

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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:39 AM

    @Chris Finn: They are no more vile than FG/FF when they were part of the Irish Republican Army. Did their members not also go to jail for bombings murders etc. No difference between the old IRA and the IRA of 20 years ago. Both were fighting for their country, both had blood on their hands. The nonsense about the clamp is not even close to funny, you are easily triggered, most normal people who could get something to remove a clamp would.

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    Mute shits ville
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:59 AM

    @Tom&Gerry: eh no, the ‘old ira’ never targeted civilians

    16
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    Mute Chris Finn
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:20 AM

    @Tom&Gerry: your comment suggests I think Fianna Fáil/ Fine Gael are ok. Did you not read my earlier comments saying they’re ALL bad but Sinn Fein just are an extra low.

    Also are you saying ah sure we’d all do it as an argument for minister for policing taking off a clamp for illegal parking (who bet went to jail because of attempted mass murder). Lol let me get this straight this is hilarious. Can you please please repeat again your comment saying we all would do it lol!

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    Mute James Mc Loughlin
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:59 AM

    @Stephen Desmond: you see the general public who voted for Sinn Fein are not allowed to comment on issues that affect them ,or the SinnFein party in other words we will accept your votes but not your comments

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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:54 PM

    @Chris Finn: I really can’t speak for anyone else, but i think you would be a right eejit to leave a clamp on your wheel if you had the means to remove it, i know i certainly would remove it, it would be stupid not to, don’t you think?

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    Mute Chris Finn
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:23 PM

    @Tom&Gerry: If that’s your point you’re an utter joke

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    Mute Chris Finn
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:46 AM

    All parties are bad but Sinn Fein are a different type of low

    82
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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:54 AM

    @Chris Finn: Sorry, I think you mean FG, the party that only represents their own class, and detest the underprivileged. Now that is a different kind of low.

    13
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    Mute Chris Finn
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:22 AM

    @Tom&Gerry: it’s bad by Fine Gael sure but I’d take it over a party that has a policing minister who was put in jail for attempted bombing of people lol. How is that so hard for you to grasp

    24
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    Mute EC P Ford
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:10 AM

    Stalin would be proud of SF tactics

    51
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    Mute Willy Malone
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:42 AM

    There really is a fear of the growth of SF..

    34
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    Mute MK76
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:59 AM

    @Willy Malone: What growth Willy?

    55
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    Mute Jane
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:00 AM

    @Willy Malone: there really isn’t.

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    Mute joe oneill
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:25 AM

    @MK76: their is a strong possibility Miss O’Neill could be your next first minister…you will self combust with rage.

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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:51 AM

    @Jane: Oh but there is, the desperation is pathetic, almost every single day.
    Why not some other political party to bash? The answer is very easy, no other political party are a threat to FG’s hold on power, so the media print negative stories almost every day on SF. and FG devotees who are also scared their party will lose power use this forum to spout their venomous hatred.

    9
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    Mute Jane
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:16 AM

    @Tom&Gerry: in 2007 Sinn Fein got 6.9% of the vote, in 2016 it got 13.8%.
    In the 10 years between FF brought us to the brink of collapse and FG brought in crushing austerity which was seen by many as grossly unfair. We’ve had health crisis after health crisis, the mess that is Irish Water, a homeless crisis, a housing crisis etc etc. In the midst of all that SF have increased their vote by 6.9%.

    FF, the party that is generally accepted as having ruined the country increased their vote by 6.9% from 2011 to 2016. The same amount SF has grown in 10 years. Why are SF not hovering up votes? They put themselves up as the alternative to FF and FG but people aren’t buying it. I don’t see this fear that you talk about.

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    Mute Chris Finn
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:38 AM

    @Jane: lol super comment. Nail on head. Facts and stats. No progress even when opportunity was put on a plate for them. A weak party that will have the same numbers in 100 years time. Nothing to strive for

    11
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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:58 PM

    @Jane: It’s here on the journal, almost every day. FF are no threat so no attacking them, everyone knows this to be the truth, why all that energy attacking a party that are no threat to your hold on power, if you really believe that.

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    Mute Chris Finn
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:47 AM

    Sinn Fein will forever stay as a third party. They will go nowhere. 30 years from now nothing will have changed. Mark my words. Excited about the party now.

    36
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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:08 AM

    @Chris Finn: Don’t fool yourself Chris, you are terrified that SF will take the power from your masters, you are so desperate your fingers are being worn out making negative remarks about them, why do that if they are not a threat? Glad to hear you are exited about the party so am i.

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    Mute Sean
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:34 AM

    @Tom&Gerry: literally nobody is terrified of that. The clowns couldn’t do it during the financial crisis, it’ll not happen now.

    23
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    Mute alphanautica
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:32 AM

    This dictat to gag victims or face punishment is a very poor signal from Mary Lou’s office.
    Scientology operates in a similar manner, crushing any efforts to release damaging internal information.

    Silencing people is not how you win their support or make the party an attractive proposition to voters.

    31
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    Mute Ben McArthur
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:12 AM

    I’m shocked, shocked! that a revolutionary socialist party would attempt to shut down dissent in its ranks.

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    Mute Brendan McLaughlin
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:35 AM

    I would be grateful for information on any political party on this island or our foreign neighbours in the UK who do not regularly employ 3 line whips and issue disciplinary penalties or dismissal for party members who refuse to adhere to party policy.
    Individuals join political parties whose policies best fit their own agendas.
    You really must correct me if I’m wrong.

    26
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    Mute Chris Finn
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:45 AM

    @Brendan McLaughlin: I fail to think of any party in the world who’s minister for policing cut off a clamp and was put in jail for attempted bombing.

    I fail to think of any party in the world that are as disorganised and have a constant list of mess ups and horrendous 1980s economic policy

    I fail to think of any party in this country so connected to terrorism, violence, kangaroo courts, bombings, kneecappings, sex crimes covering up, armchair republican coward losers who wear bandanas.

    The country and our men of history cringe for these absolute cowards and losers who follow this dirt party

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    Mute Pepper Brooks
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:46 AM

    @Brendan McLaughlin: delusional

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    Mute Daniel O'Connor
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:59 AM

    @Chris Finn: but…..leo…..spin department…..FF are FG

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    Mute Tom&Gerry
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:04 AM

    @Chris Finn: “Our men of history cringe for these absolute cowards” are you for real. Have you forgotten the Old IRA members, FG and FF, were they not responsible for murdering and bombings and god knows what else. The IRA of 20 years ago was no different than the old IRA. Both had blood on their hands, go and learn your history.

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    Mute Chris Finn
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    Feb 10th 2018, 10:26 AM

    @Tom&Gerry: I know my history. While all parties are bad none of those parties have a minister for policing put in jail for attempted bombing of people lol. Like what constitutes as vile for you.

    I think we’re all in agreement that that minister is an absolute loser of the highest order

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    Mute Cormac
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:36 AM

    Darragh Brophy has yet another SF story on “bullying”. One could accuse Darragh of having an agenda or dare I say “bullying”.

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    Mute owen kirwan
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    Feb 10th 2018, 8:51 AM

    @Cormac: So is it the journal’s fault for the billing and harassment FECKERS

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    Mute Ben McArthur
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:11 AM

    @Cormac: Yes SF are the true victims here.

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    Mute David Murphey
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:34 AM

    @Cormac: I know, it’s all so unfair.

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    Mute Paddy
    Favourite Paddy
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:57 AM

    @Ben McArthur: some of their ex members are any ways bullied out of the party with threats of punishment if they open their mouths

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    Mute John Fergus
    Favourite John Fergus
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:09 AM

    To be fair, is it any different from any other major political parties.

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    Mute Honeybadger197
    Favourite Honeybadger197
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    Feb 10th 2018, 9:15 AM

    @John Fergus: To be fair, what other major political party has seen 10% of its elected officials resign due to allegations bullying etc in recent months?

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    Mute John Walsh
    Favourite John Walsh
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    Feb 10th 2018, 11:27 AM

    It must be tough for the new young councillors going up against men who once planted bombs. Surely it’s ingrained in the old school Sinn feiners to do things “differently”. These gn run Sinn fein and can’t be disciplined.

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    Mute Jeremy Jimmy Carlo
    Favourite Jeremy Jimmy Carlo
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    Feb 10th 2018, 6:34 PM

    Ye all should see some of the stuff these Cultists have got up to in Kilkenny/Carlow in the last year or so.
    Issuing ‘Death Threats’ to people who left their Cult – And what did these ex-cult members do to deserve this ? Just spoke out on social media about their treatment inside the Cult.
    Cultists threatening to Burn-Out defenceless women.. And approaching small business owners looking for ‘Donations’ , with a menacing undertone of “If you don’t donate, then you will get no protection ” ??
    Just some of the Cultists activities in Kilkenny and Carlow ..

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    Mute Jun Stone
    Favourite Jun Stone
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    Feb 10th 2018, 11:49 AM

    Ah The Cult at it again.

    7
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