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Clare Kleinedler is a freelance journalist and American ex-pat who relocated to Drogheda from Los Angeles last year. She writes a blog about her experiences in the country that has become her new home. This week she asks the question; why are we so accepting of antisocial behaviour?
FOR THE MOST PART, I really enjoy living in Ireland and I think I make that relatively clear in this blog. But there are days – and today is one of those days – where I really hate certain things about living here. Yes, I used the “h” word.
Since I try to be honest about my experience here I feel I should share the reasons why. This morning Mountaineering Man and I awoke to find a window had been smashed in his apartment building; apparently some jerkface kids in the neighborhood think it’s funny to throw rocks at windows until they shatter into a million pieces all over the sidewalk below. The window wasn’t MM’s, but rather one that looks out from the inside stairwell. There are several apartment blocks in his area that have numerous smashed communal windows, likely by the same culprits.
I’ve been seeing a lot of these moronic kids lately. Last Saturday night, as MM and his friend and I sat in a local pub, a group of four tween girls walked into the bar. Though they kept near the entrance, they loudly jeered at the barman from across the room.
“We were here last night,” one said, grinding her hips provocatively. “Last night, we were 18 years old here!”
The barman yelled for them to get out, but she kept going.
“But last night I was 18, don’t you remember?” she teased. Finally as the barman made his way toward them, they walked out. However, they stood outside, looking in from the street, taunting the barman with a variety of obscene hand gestures.
A few minutes later, two garda walked by. I felt some relief; though they were mere kids, several more had joined the girls and now they were a group of 8 or so. As the garda walked past, the girls mocked them and getting all up in their business, so to speak. One even lifted up her shirt to reveal her bra, thrusting her chest very close to one of the guards.
What did they do? Nothing. The guards laughed and kept walking, even though the girls followed them at least half-way down the street, hurling insults the whole way. They were about as effective as American mall security guards in that situation. Wait, scratch that. Mall security guards would have at least asked them to leave or rang the real police for that type of disruptive behavior. The kids in this scenario continued to harass every patron that passed them to enter the bar until finally the barman’s girlfriend went outside and gave them orders to get away or else she would ring some garda who would actually do something. I admired her for taking a stand.
That type of enforcement is incredibly rare around here. I don’t know what came first: Irish people’s indifference and general apathy or the sheer unresponsiveness of those in charge. Though this is the second window that’s been broken in MM’s apartment building in the last month, the building management hasn’t done sh*t about it (and the tenants pay a heft “management” fee annually for their services, or lack thereof). And while MM did ring and talk to someone at the management company, I’m not sure if anyone else in the building has done anything similar. People are surely fed up, but it seems their attitude is, “Ah nothing will be done about it anyway.” Call me typically American but what does it take for people to band together and demand change? Moreover, what does it take for those in charge to actually do their jobs?
I’m certainly not the poster child for American nationalism – the U.S. has its own share of problems. But I will say this: Americans generally have a D.I.Y. attitude, and we’re firm believers in the idea that each of us needs to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. No one else is going to do it for us. I really wish I saw more of this in Ireland instead of the incredible ennui that seems to be the norm here. Needless to say I’m not referring to the entire population – I am only going on what I’ve seen so far.
In any case, tomorrow is a new day and I’m sure I’ll have a new attitude. But today I just had to vent. Thanks for reading.
Read more by Clare Kleinedler on her blog: anamericaninireland.com >
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Sadly I think the low turnout is nothing to do wit the rain or voter apathy, I think people saw this for wot it is, we are damned if we say yes and we are damned if we say no. there was so much scaremongering done on both sides that people were afraid to.make a decision.
people should still cash their vote, even if they’re spoilt. there is no excuses for not using a vote unless physically able to do so. its not just our privilege, its our duty.
Well now Niamh I’m going to agree with you for a change. Wonders will never cease.
I didn’t vote because I couldn’t decide either way, I thought long & hard about both sides and in the end I could see positive and negative on both – so I exercised my democratic right to NOT vote. Maybe I should have turned up and spoiled my vote, but to be honest I never even thought of it.
Spoiling a vote is pointless in a simple majority, yes/no vote.
Jesus Gary don’t make it worse by agreeing wit me. ;)
@Conor I remember as a kid going to vote wit my dad, we had successive Ff eejits elected, my dad had had enough so he spoiled his vote by writing the letters w a n k e r s in the boxes provided, it was the only time I thought spoiling a vote as protest gave some satisfaction. Otherwise I agree, spoiling a vote is pointless.
Haha, nice one, Niamh! I can see the merits of spoiling an election vote (although many can’t), as it’s a proportional representation system, and such an act can potentially deny candidates their quota. But in a referendum vote the result is determined by simple majority. So even if only 3 people out of the entire country voted, and the other millions didn’t, the result would still count.
main point of that article was nice 1 & nice 2 and Lisbon 1 & Lisbon 2.
The low turnout was expected to hurt the YES side but you need to look closely at where there was low turnout.
It seems turnout was lowest in NO areas and highest in YES areas. While not true everywhere it appears that the NO side may have stayed home yesterday.
What are you talking about? No voters are more likely to vote actually..! The main thing is we got our say because the government never wanted us to have it in the first place….! What will be now will be mister know-it-all.
Are you really that deluded I heard radio polls all day yesterday saying no had it!! But just shows how blindness and that’s how people allowed so many bad things to happen aside from this omg open your mind
Mark, we shall see very shortly who won and who lost. My money is on the referendum passing.
There we go – yes voter provides analysis, no voter- hissy fit.
Anel, I hope to quote you sarcastically around noon today.
Paddy power has reopened the book. No is 12/1. Yes is 1/66. Looks like the sheeple have spoken
Sorry about that i just got sick
@daniel! Good luck quoting Anel because I don’t even understand what he’s saying in the sentence above. It could be due to the lack of punctuation!
I’m not deluded, are we following the tallies? Even with a Low turnout the YES side has it!
David I sincerely hope you are still posting here when the ramifications of this treaty kick in. You will have a lot to defend! Also the treaty is out of date already as we will be having a referendum on full fiscal union within the year to allow Eurobonds which 100% guaranteed will mean conceding corporation tax (base) so 12.5% of what’s sold in Ireland will have devastating consequences.. Hopefully by then people will not be suffering from Stockholm syndrome.
Its still early but congratulations on driving the final nail into Ireland’s coffin, I look forward to you explaining your reasons when all materializes.
Even if it is passes the government has lost , a big percent voted no even tho the no campaign was run be ex-terrorists, far left nuts and far right nuts all of whom in my opinion lost votes for the no side, yet despite this there was a big no vote which is a very damming reflection on FG LB
Low turnout doesn’t affect the result. If over 50% don’t vote that’s there problem, the result is decided by the people that voted. If the yes or no sides didn’t mobilise the voters then don’t blame the weather
Low turnout only affects the result when you consider motivations. If Yes voters see the polls and think “Oh, it’s going through anyway, I’ll not bother” while No voters think “I will ‘ave my say regardless of the polls” then a low turn out would lead to a No result. Wouldn’t it?
@damocles- that’s reasonable but the opposite may also apply. I think early analysis is interesting as it is showing a class divide. Whatever happens, anyone thinking a low turnout is to their advantage is a sad reflection on a democracy
Donncha, quite, it depends on the psychomological motivations of Irish people.
My point was that the result is decided by the people who voted not by what what the non voters may have done
@ damocles, can’t really top that last reply…psychomological… has anyone done research on how the weather has affected human history, how many revolutions failed due to a soggy day?
Donncha, there’s always Operation Sea Lion and the Battle of Britain, if the weather window hadn’t have closed the Luftwaffe might have gained air superiority, Operation Sea Lion might have gone ahead and things would be very different now.
We’d all be ruled by the Germans.
We are presently ruled by Germans
Yes, Limofax, I was being ironic.
Maybe people are more educated and have figured out that Ireland has always been corrupt, especially to use opinions in law and falsify voting systems.
Or falsify everything with opinions that do not exist and a judicial system that does not know what to look for.
What???
Whine whine whine.
i hate legal types like you, speak english please
You three above and the 70 thumbs down should not be allowed to vote if you cannot figure the meaning of opinions in law on comparison to evidence used by the rest of the world.
To anyone who didn’t bother to exercise their democratic right to vote, I suggest that they take a running jump at the first temptation to complain about ongoing and increasingly harsh austerity measures should the Yes vote win out.
Come to think of it, Yes voters can do the same, even If I do applaud that they actually used their votes…
My sentiments exactly!!!
There’s been a lot of personal abuse from No supporters against anyone voting Yes on this forum over the last weeks. “Sheeple” etc. and crude references to fascism, treason etc. It would be refreshing if people could disagree civilly in a democratic republic. I’m not saying there weren’t valid arguments for voting No.
1.6 million not voting is totally unacceptable.. I met about a hundred No voters… 10+ yes and 1 of them changed to No, quite a few not sures who turned to No. Fingers crossed for a common sense rejection.
I don’t know anyone that was voting YES.
Spoke to lots of my colleagues yesterday – all of whom were voting yes (myself included). It could be that like minded people “hang out” together as all those on journal.ie advocating for a no vote only seem to know of other No voters! And yet I’ve only encountered yes voters
You’ll find very few No’s in the public service Mary. Turkeys don’t vote for Xmas
That’s very likely Mary.
I think many yes voters just kept quiet after seeing the type of responses from no voters on forums like this. Always difficult to persuade others to your side when you abuse them for their opinions. Is there a lesson here for the angry brigade?
I don’t work in the public service and nearly everyone I spoke to voted “yes” (There was one undecided).
All this shows is that one person’s social circle is not statistically significant in these matters.
I don’t know anyone who was voting NO
a lot of the yes vote would never be on websites, my dad for instance voted yes, even though he couldn’t come up with one good reason except, europe has been good for us, and SF are terrorists. no matter how much i tried to get him to think about what the ref was about, he still wouldnt vote no
I would imagine many people my dad’s age would be the same, so i think it will easily pass by about 62% to 66%
unfornunatly in ireland we rarley think about the what we are being asked to vote on
Even if it is a NO vote, we’ll just be asked to vote again, it’s a farce! All we have is a veil of democracy!
Well then they should vote to demonstrate that! it tales 5 minutes.. 3 referendums would prove it!
I feel that this government doesn’t represent me… And if this treaty gets through today… It’s time to give up on Ireland, absolutely no back bone. To me it feels like we’re being pushed around by the schoolyard bully, and we’re too eager to hand over our lunch money!
Nothing to do with weather but this government has had its day.
It makes me sick to think of the salaries they earn and the perks while others are expected to live on so little.
Nothing to do with the weather, or the Fiscal Compact referendum. :-/
Nothing to do with the referendum either.
For paddy power to change odds so dramatically in favour of a yes vote they would have to be very confident, that said they would have turn out results for each constituency suggesting poor areas didn’t turn out. Ironically the people who will suffer the most. Looks like Joan Burton’s shameless threat to not have any funding for social welfare payments paid off! she might say its a fact but should she not have said we will obviously pear down all high earning Civil servants wages perks, Ministers etc. No just go straight for the poor when your stuck sure they don’t vote as we have them beaten into submission. Job Done. Bleeding heart in opposition/ Bleeding heartless in power!!!!
You can’t have your cake and eat it
All the yes voters are in Spain and others places in there holiday homes god I hope it’s a no vote to shut up FF FG and them back stabbing labour party
Looks like an easy win for YES side. Too many were in fear.
Sinn Féin are still winners though. Labour will be wiped out at next election.
superb.. a future governent run by Sinn Fein and Fine Fail.. absolutely fantastic. Time to jump off the sinking ship for sure now.
The low turnout will suit the Yes side. It gives them an easy excuse to break their promise that there wouldn’t be a rerun if they lost.
I’d like just once to come in here and not see a load of whining and name calling. Some of you no guys are the worst.
Congrats Garry. Yes side have clearly won. I fear for the future but today is the Yes sides day. Hope ye use ur victory wisely. Congrats again
Ditto from me. We will now see what the future holds for us.
i agree that yes has won, but its not a day for YES to celebrate as the government has still lost , a big percent voted no even tho the no campaign was run be ex-terrorists, far left nuts and far right nuts all of whom in my opinion lost votes for the no side, yet despite this there was a big no vote which is a very damming reflection on FG LB
Well we’ll just all have to hope for the best. I’d like to think the treay will help stop Irish governments being so foolish in the future.
There seems to be a real class divide emerging in the votes counted so far. The country is really divided. Seems most of the Middle class have voted Yes, despite taking the majority of increases in taxes/charges.
It’s now 9:45 where are the tallys it should all be done and dusted by now with such a low turn out
Lots of tallys on twitter and politics.ie.
Looking like a definite yes.
Also the lefties on politics.ie are beginning to insult everybody and call the electorate idiots so that’s a good sign for a yes.
bit by bit it’s here:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0601/fiscal-treaty-referendum-count-to-begin.html
Early tallies are looking like an easy YES
Dublin north:yes 40% no 60% ; dub north west yes 47% no 52%.,from rte live blog
So when does this much vaunted stability and increase in jobs kick in?
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78909677&postcount=1
Yeah the damn government and all it’s exaggeration and misdirection.
To answer your question, stability is likely to take years and no one is saying otherwise. Other than one battered ‘Yes for Jobs’ poster from Lisbon that someone stuck up there has anyone been claiming yes for jobs?
Kenny, Gilmore and the rest of them were you not listening to them during the referendum campaign?
Honestly no I wasn’t.
People only vote yes so they can blame the government if it goes horribly wrong for telling us to vote yes. If we vote no then if it goes wrong we will be to blame, and we all know the irish dont want to blame themselves.
N Dublin West 52/47 NO @10% vote counted
i dont get it where are all the people that are on here and every other site saying they will vote no? obviously didn’t bother getting out to vote just like the household charge talking the talk but not walking the walk.
oooh the household charge… I knew there was something I meant to do!! :P
0953 With 60% of boxes open in Limerick City the Yes is at 60% while No is at 40%. In Limerick, the Yes are are on 57% and No on 43% with 70% of boxes open.
0950 A tally from Dublin South, with 7.7% of boxes open, has Yes at 69% and No at 31%.
0948 With 20 of the 191 boxes tallied in Louth, the Yes is on 52% and the No on 48%.
I’m wondering if those commenting here with political party avatars have given a bit of critical thought to the implications and impact of the referendum on the country or merely go along with what their boys tell them to? The same of course to the nay-sayers. I’ve seen a lot of fanboy comments and rates from the bookies but not much actual, useful discussion on the pros and cons of this deal..?
have your say