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Dublin: 18 °C Wednesday 19 June, 2013

Column: The property tax shows our leaders are banking on another bubble

Our Government appears to be depending on another round of runaway price inflation, writes Aaron McKenna – but where does that leave us?

Aaron McKenna

IN BUDGET 2013, the worst option for the country’s economic wellbeing is to hit people with more taxes. The worst option for the ordinary person is a tax that will lead to government attempting to jack up house prices for its own good. And the cherry on top would be if the government managed to introduce this tax in such a way as to create yet more uncertainty in consumers’ minds, discouraging them from spending job-creating cash in the last months of the year.

Paddy Power isn’t bothering to give odds on which options our government is going for.

The big-ticket item in Budget 2013 will likely be the introduction of a property tax. Fresh from the skirmish over the €100 household charge, our intrepid government is having a pre-show dinner row with the IMF over the scale of the tax, as a warm up to the theatrics that will come when they introduce it to the Irish people.

The course the government is steering on the property tax is devoid of any original thinking, and ties neatly back into the crushing need of policy makers to will our property market back into a boom. In introducing a value-based tax our leaders are banking on an increase in house prices that will deliver more and more revenue to their coffers.

It was a perverse desire to see more and more property being sold at higher and higher prices that pushed Fianna Fáil to pour petrol all over our last boom. The current government inherited the Fianna Fáil thinking that ties the success – and the long term cost – of our banking bailouts and NAMA to a forthcoming property price boom.

Leave of their senses

The value-based property tax is yet another cog in our economy that will hinge on Irish people taking leave of their senses in the coming decade or two. This government is just as incentivised to push Irish people to overpay for property as the one that came before it.

Any tax increase at this time is a bad idea. Ministers like Leo Varadkar have pointed this out, saying that this tax was coming “at the worst possible time” for people before shrugging his shoulders and, essentially, telling us plebs “tough”. It shouldn’t surprise us that our government is too feeble-willed to take decisive action against another job-killing tax by perhaps making some choices on spending; but it was surprising to see Michael Noonan stand up and directly contradict the IMF.

Our bailout masters want us to introduce a tax of 0.5 per cent on homes. Noonan said no, we’ll go for 0.25 per cent or so; and his minion Brian Hayes has continued the softening-up by saying that we’ll only have the tax for half the year in 2013. Much as this might be good politics, it’s poor economics; and once again the government is taking political expediency over certainty.

We have a known target of €1.25 billion in tax increases due in budget 2013. A 0.5 per cent property tax would deliver €1 billion or so, a 0.25 per cent tax €500 million; and a half year of it only €250 million.

At the very least the government could have delivered some certainty to Irish consumers by telling us that we’ll get a 0.5 per cent property tax and then some other small measures to make up the €250m owed.

Instead, now we have an additional €1 billion in new taxes the government will have to make up. Most likely they will once again leave us on tenterhooks as to whether it is our incomes, our cars, our water or something else we’ll be getting new bills for, introducing consumer uncertainty in what’s supposed to be the most profligate time of year. If we’re to get a rake of new taxes in 2013, we should at least be given the courtesy of a long runway to consider how it will impact our finances. This might mitigate the impact by leaving taxpayers the confidence to spend some money and create some economic growth.

Efficient use

A better property tax (or at least a less bad one) would be a site value based tax, such as that economist Ronan Lyons has been calling for. This tax would be based on the value of the land a building is on, not the building itself.

There are a myriad of reasons why a site value tax would be better.

A tax on the value of your property is a disincentive to many efficient things you could do with that building: For example, if you were to spend money to make your house more energy-efficient it would increase the value and, therefore, your annual tax bill.

A tax on the value of the land the building sits on incentivises more efficient use of that land. For example if you have a derelict site in a town or city you will pay the same tax for owning a wreck as you would for opening a shop or building an apartment complex. In the property value based tax system you will pay more tax if you do something efficient with the land.

A site value-based tax would also provide a disincentive to the speculative zoning of land – for example from farming to residential – because you’ll still pay the increased taxes on the land even if you’re doing nothing with it.

Any tax is going to have to contain a raft of offsetting exemptions and rules for those in negative equity, the poor, rural dwellers, and so on. There is no advantage or disadvantage to a site value tax when constructing these rules. But the for the government, the main upside in a property value tax is that they will get a windfall from a property boom.

That’s not very advantageous to you and I, Joe Citizens who really don’t need the government egging on higher home prices. And it’s not at all good for society that the property tax should discourage people from making the most efficient use of their land.

Aaron McKenna is a businessman and a columnist for TheJournal.ie. You can find out more about him at aaronmckenna.com or follow him on Twitter @aaronmckenna.

Read: More columns from Aaron McKenna on TheJournal.ie>

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Comments (90 Comments)

  • Is my house going to be valued on an annual basis and if so who is going to value it and who pays for the valuation? The whole ‘value based’ idea sounds more ridiculous than the fact that most people just simply don’t have the money to pay another bloody tax.

    Reply
  • The government are talking about a house owner tax in order to normalise the idea in peoples minds . I am not accepting this tax.

    I paid a small fortune in tax and duty already for my house. I’m not paying again.

    Paye , Prsi, USC, Vat on everything I purchase with my after tax income , Vat & Duty on fuel , motor tax. Levy on insurance products.

    Enough is enough. I can’t pay the government any more of my salary .

    Reply
    • Spot on we are the easy targets , where’s the FAIRNESS!….

      Reply
    • johnny 15/09/12 #

      @nellysroom what exactly is behind your wallpaper?

      Reply
    • it will be coming out of the mortgage money, I don’t own anything.

      Reply
    • What were you thinking when you were buying your house? You pay sales tax and that’s it? I think Ireland is the only country in OECD where people don’t pay property taxes… Welcome to the real world! If you don’t want to pay property tax, rent… (I rent because I don’t want to be a captive)…

      Reply
    • johnny 15/09/12 #

      Anna we were thinking exactly that, I buy my house pay the massive stamp duties, local authority levies (30000€ in my case) all the other hidden costs. Then unlike all the countries I pay dearly for every single service and now having paid all that they want a yearly fee and for this fee they propose to give me? Exactly nothing. Other countries may pay but they get a return.

      Reply
    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSOYTFw0JaA

      @ 2:06 : “…Katie Scarlett, land is the only thing in the world wroth fighting for, worth dying for…” ;)

      Johnny,
      I hear you… We’re all in the same boat, so to speak – we’re stuck on this island (show me a better place, though – there are just a few “economically good” countries around)… However, I have to disagree that in other OECD countries people get back more from the state… Well, I’ll speak for the countries I know, the US and the UK… Forget the US – it’s the wild west, you get nothing from the gov’t, you’re on your own when it comes to health care, social safety net, etc. Plus, you pay property taxes, state taxes, city taxes, etc. Britain? NHS may be better than the HSE but social welfare sucks – it’s way less “extravagant” than in Ireland (also, the avg wage in Britain is less than GBP 30K/yr and one pays property taxes, water taxes, etc.)… Maybe in Norway they get more from the state but Norway is a special case and from my experience people there live much more frugally – they can’t live any other way – the wages are not that high, taxes are huge (I don’t have many people there who can afford to buy a new car or smokes or go out to the pubs on a regular basis and throw their money away there as freely as many people do here, for example – and we’re talking about the richest country in the world!); yes, social welfare is good but Norway has oil and small population…

      Reply
  • Jer O'G 15/09/12 #

    Banking on a property bubble? Surely the tax will be an instrument to prevent property inflation. A rate of 1% results in a yearly tax of €10,000 for a property worth €1 million – that should whet most people’s appetite to buy.

    Reply
    • Exactly. My first thought also. The fact that there are annual taxes to be paid should lead to changed behaviour as buyers consider the associated annual taxes. This slow growth of property prices happens in other countries where there are property taxes, so why not Ireland?

      Even if the option of a site value tax, as advocated by the columnist, was taken by the government, the same criticism could be made i.e. the more the government pushes up the value of land, the more money they take in.

      One thing I do find galling about this columnist is that he seems to agree with the government on the amount of the adjustment. And he always claims new taxes will kill growth. Yet as tax increases and the property tax are only equal to one third of next years budget, he’s slightly disingenuous. What he seems to be in favour of is 100% spending cuts, without ever actually saying it.

      Reply
    • Jer, Surely you mean dampen (discourage) rather than whet (encourage)?

      Reply
    • I think Mr McKenna’s point is that a property tax incentivised the government to pursue policies that inflate property prices. Although, having said that, this logic clearly is absent when it comes to income tax. (No coherent strategy to get the unemployed into work.)
      You are correct that a property tax will further depress the property market. The insanity of this is that at the other end the state has pumped billions into Nama to prevent this and contined contraction of the property market will see potential revenues raised from this tax diminish. This is economic illiteracy in action.
      Also, we hear these idiots claim that this taxation is appropriate as Ireland has no property tax. In fact, during the boom the average new property yielded €100k revenues for the state. This tax is in fact double taxation on the same asset. Now, like a careless child that has wasted their pocket money on crisps and sweets for their friends, the state is back looking for more. It’s time for taxpayers to show some tough love and let the state know that it has to manage it’s pocket money in a more adult manner.

      Reply
    • CSE 26/09/12 #

      A tax on land value will stabilize or reduce the selling price. Not taxing the property, the building, will help that depreciating asset to maintain its value, or increase it, as the property owner will not be penalised for improving their property if they so desire.

      Reply
  • Site value and size of land the only way to go if it has to be done. Also they need to give something back to the people in a form of free medical or dental as the people are paying a lot of taxes and getting NOTHING in return.

    Reply
    • You’re dead right Martin.

      But a site value tax would mean speculators holding development land banks would have to stump up for not using their land.

      Now we couldn’t be having that could we ?

      FF/FG- two sides of the same coin, nothing to see here, move along now

      Reply
  • Doom and Gloom merchants it’s more than time to tell Leo VaRATka and his buddies wise up and piss off. What ever the scale of property tax comes in I am personally going to donate monies to my local school to the value of the tax. Get a receipt and post it to my TD another hugely useless individual Michael Ring. I would encourage others to do the same be it a school, a hospital, a local group setting up playgrounds, a registered charity, a hospice, a local mental health group etc etc basically every where in your local community where central Government have removed funding to pay for the sins of the un prosecutable pinstriped boys of the boom.
    Red thumb all you like but walk out side your house count how many of your neighbours have no job no hope and no children as they have fled the recession. If we all are going to be servants to the tax overlords we may as well start buying uniforms and start calling them our masters.
    Last point most important be happy in any way you can.

    Reply
    • Good man Danny, I like it.

      Reply
    • Nappy 15/09/12 #

      well said Danny boy

      Reply
    • Nappy 15/09/12 #

      well said Danny

      Reply
    • Mick 15/09/12 #

      Using all the buzz words there Danny, all you were missing was…’I love animals’…simple fact is its paid in other country’s that are paying for all your listed buzz words at the moment so we are not in a position to refuse to pay more tax…ur sentiments about donating to charity are probably well meaning (and could get you far in a miss world compition)…it would not work in reality…would be open to abuse and brown envelopes if nothing else…we don’t really want to go down that road again do we?

      Reply
    • ok , lets all bitch and complain about it all here on Journal, but lets see how many of you do what I did yesterday, I emailed my feelings and opinions to the FG website, and in no uncertain terms I let them know how “popular” they were, I intend to do this as often as I can. using this site is brilliant to banther among ourselves but all that is being said here HAS to be made known to FG/Lab through their websites.
      Any of you going to follow suit, or are you all happy enough to bitch among yourselves while those clowns in Dublin do what they like to us??

      Reply
    • Mick 16/09/12 #

      Richard…snore..hows bout getting ur self a job or something

      Reply
  • 100% agree with everything you say. Surly the brain dead sheep wont follow the vampires and start over paying for property again? Are we really that stupid a nation? Are Irish people just complete and utter re-tards?

    Reply
    • Gerard 15/09/12 #

      Duh yeah

      Reply
    • Mick 15/09/12 #

      They did before and they will again- they will borrow too much, they will boast about how rich they are, they then get into trouble financially, then they will blame the banks for giving it to them, then they will blame the government for everything…but they will never blame themselves…yep-there were, are, and aways will be a lot of simple minded people out there

      Reply
    • Are your questions of the rhetorical type? Are you Irish?

      Reply
    • johnny 15/09/12 #

      Well Martin take a look in the mirror

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    • Am I living on a different planet .where we going to get the mortgages.the banks are nt lending.property prices at rock bottom ,450k people out of work, the cost of living going up, if u stand still for long enough u get taxed. So where’s the money to create a new property bubble coming from

      Reply
    • Eilish property prices are certainly not at rock bottom yet and no where near it.

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    • Martin they people are fed lies through RTE and other media sources this goverment promised us accountability and fairness ,instead we have guttersnipe politics no investigation in to what went on in the banks corruption at the top in this country that would rival any country in africa ,PEOPLE GET INFORMED.

      Reply
    • If asset nominal prices doubled the financial crisis would be mainly over.

      Reply
    • It’s going to be a vicious cycle:

      More taxes = less spending = less sales = less jobs = more social welfare paid out = more austerity = more taxes to make up for the deficit = even less spending = even less sales =even less jobs = and even more social welfare paid out.

      All this with futher complaining that the public sector caused this while ignoring that people on social welfare are public sector employees too only don’t do anything.

      Reply
    • I am always amazed how Paddy can call himself and everyone else a “re-tard” and at the same time think they have any intelligence or the ability to pass intelligent comment. Why don’t you call the British such names after all they had more boom and busts than the Irish. Start with the “South Sea Bubble” and work from there. Perhaps the Dutch were “re-tards” when they went mad on Tulip bulbs. If you called any other nation such names you’d be removing shoe leather from your posterior regions for quite some time to come.

      Reply
  • Nappy 15/09/12 #

    very good article but so depressing first thing sat morning we really need to start protesting like french spanish english greeks ect…. ya never know are voices might be noticed

    Reply
  • Yojo 15/09/12 #

    So water rates, household charge and property tax? Next year roof tax maybe? Or chimney taxes or having a F’in driveway tax?!!?! It’s gettin silly now. Somethings gotta give and people will take to the streets. Which may not end well

    Reply
  • Property tax, the rock the government will perish on.

    Reply
  • Nappy 15/09/12 #

    do what the english did years ago bring on a window tax

    Reply
  • OK Mick,

    Not sure where to start but here goes.

    The public has been screwed to the last penny in a vast majority of the population. I feel that less people will pay the increases in property taxes on two grounds. 1 Inability to pay 2 A Desire to show the present Government they disagree with the policy.

    My own personal view and what I will do is to take the figure they will come up with for a property tax and not pay it to the Government. I will instead use my money to donate to my local school who have lost a teacher and to improve the education of the local 5-12 year olds. Therefore I am paying the equivalent in tax but direct to source.

    You may have a local hospital that needs to save 1 bed. A mental Health Group that services 63 rural patients improves their lives and those around them but no longer can afford to continue as Government has removed funding.

    There are a large list of registered charities that you may wish to support again direct funding no middle man. I don’t trust the middle men the Government and Local Government have continued to waste money through inefficiency. The last property tax was to go to Local Government to improve amenities etc etc let’s see the books what did they spend the money on? How far does your property tax go in a country with nearly half a million people out of work?

    By getting a receipt to the value of your Property Tax putting it in a registered envelope sending it to you member of Dail Eireann you send a message to the government that you are contributing to society. Just the society that they are removing money from and sending it off shore. I know it’s a difficult one to get your head around its called direct funding or giving back or being practical.

    I didn’t know what buzz words are and maybe I have used some more if I have and this has in anyway upset you, this was purely unintentional. Thank you for replying with your surname. So Mick Doyle I hope this helps. I would like to refer you to the last line of the original post.

    Be Happy in any way you can. Today I’m Happy as the All Blacks beat South Africa in the Rugby and I finally engaged in a social media comments section with a faceless human. You should get a profile picture for your twitter account you may attract more followers.

    Reply
    • Mick 15/09/12 #

      Danny…you miss the point on your simplistic miss world answer…think logically not fluffy..actually just think….Who is going to administrate this form of payment? How much is this new administration system going to cost…will it eat up the funding and be wasted…How are hospitals, schools etc going to budget at the start of the year if they are reliant on people making a decision on who they give their donation to? Will there be canvassing to get you to give them their share..will this turn into a business…how much would it cost to process all these single payment of many formats in a non centralised place … I could go on but do not want to embarrass you…While the sentiments are great Danny and lovely…you really need to think through your answers and think on a practical level…

      Reply
  • Large prisons will have to be built quickly, and more taxes will have to raised to build them, 600,000 HHC non payers that can’t won’t pay are unlikely to pay any charge on their own home,

    Reply
    • There are the can’t pay and won’t pay categories. The latter is the larger category. And there’s nothing about locking people up. Just when they go to sell their house the charge will be taken then, with interest of course. So no new prisons needed.

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    • There is a lot more than 600,000 who wont pay and have not paid the goverment the wasted might as well of burnt it 100 euro… id say closer to a million people did not pay and wont pay this one either unless spmething is given back in form of free medical etc etc in return.

      Reply
    • Here’s an economic stimulus for you… Building prisons, garding them, etc creates jobs!

      Reply
  • Exemptions for those in negative equity? They’ll never do that ?

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  • Travelling around Ireland I noted many modest homes with spectacular views. Many cotages, maybe inherited. I heard one of the eager beaver economists explain how the checklist evaluation would work and of course ‘does the view enhance the selling price’ came into it. These modest homes could sell for 500,000 as wealthy individuals or foreign buyers would snap them up. To level and rebuild mostly. Mary and Joe will not be able to afford the 1,250 (@2.5% on a one time basis never mind an annual basis so will have to sell to a wealthy buyer. The future of Ireland’s home ownership will change. Only the wealthy will be able to live in a nice house. No more saving for or inheriting a home you will one day own. Where is the morality in this suggestion? It is certainly not linked to servicesi.
    Then in Dublin city as in others around Ireland historically one side of the river commands a higher price than the other. Some people aspired to one day have their home across the river. Now even if they can afford to buy the home would they be able to affford the tax? Probably not. Blue collar workers leave them at the side of the river where they belong.
    Sustainability, steady income stream; these tell us nothing about how Irish people live or what their aspirations were. Unusually we have the right to private property written into our constitution. Unlike the Germans we do not sign a social contract as landowners when we buy our homes. And that’s what they are homes.

    Reply
  • I’ve been trying to understand why the government is averse to the site value tax as opposed to market value. Ronan Lyons has shown that SVT will not adversely affect rural dwellers (FG’s natural constituency) and can be calculated easily. MVT by contrast requires a subjective assessment of each property. So who benefits? Could it be that the valuers and estate agents have been the more successful lobbyists and that the govt is basing the decision on the jobs it can create in this sector rather than the broader impact of the tax?

    Reply
  • This is another mess by our policy makers. They constantly make reference to other countries etc. right most countries have council taxes(not a property tax) fair enough but the services they get let’s compare, refuse collection,health,education etc. quite simply we will receive no services for this and therefore it’s pointless. We have to look at what natural resources we have and compile a strategy to extract. Tax revenue from that will far surpass previous expectations,create jobs and should have social impacts also. I fear that our policy makers have no vision and that in itself is scary

    Reply
  • Nappy 15/09/12 #

    will rent be pushed up aswell then from landlords adding to more inflation and remember this year is only dipping the toe in the water they are putting price of property tax up in next to budgets after this One .GERMANY 29 IRELAND negative -10

    Reply
  • Not one single of these ministers has any concept of the real world. They will never be personally affected by the likes of a property tax. My house is worthless to me as I wouldn’t be “allowed” to sell it, so in the event of the tax relying on a self assessed value, I’ll be putting a big fat zero on the form

    Reply
  • Totally disagree with your angle, market value property taxes by there very nature serve to dampen exuberant property inflation, stamp duty is the real windfall tax for property and was proven to be unsustainable

    Reply
    • I was agreeing with the site and land size part. I agree with you it seems like this would stop prices rising overall. Anyway the people wont have it…water charges, bin charges, internet charges, tv charges, gas charges, electricity charges,home insurance all going up and we get nothing in return. The people will finally crack as its all to much!

      Reply
    • Greg 15/09/12 #

      Charlie, recent history proves that value based tax is no desincentive to property price inflation. Stamp duty was linked directly to the purchase price and was immediate.
      This new tax would actually have even less effect as it would be payable over years so the effect is minimised in peoples mind.
      The whole ‘thinking’ behind property tax is a sustainable income stream, unlike stamp duty which stops once the market stalls. Yet linking it to the price of the property rather than the site means if the property prices drops like recently then the government faces another stall in taxes.

      Reply
    • Greg I was referring to hyper inflation on houses i.e. another bubble…there is no recent history to prove anything here unfortunately however i would surmise that had a property tax been levied here around 2000 – 2002 a lot of the air could have been been taking out

      Reply
    • Charlie, Spain & the USA had property boom/ busts running along side ours. Both have property taxes, which did not prevent property bubbles.

      Reply
  • Well said Danny! It’s insane that they think we can squeeze anymore out of our pay check. Last week Enda Kenny stated that the mulranney Hse hotel where fine geal had their own juncket had it’s busiest year yet so people have money out there!!! Come on enda did you see the guest list? This government is living in some parallel universe if they think we have any more money to give. Where’s Robin Hood when you need him? Enda is the sheriff of nottingham and us small folk the villagers supporting his kingdom!!!!

    Reply
  • Our esteemed government might as well start taxing kennels, bird cages and goldfish ponds as well, to make up any shortfall. Grrrr.

    Reply
  • Yeah your probably right Mick I think I’ll just pay the taxes. Funny though when I gave the school €100 last year they just said thanks and gave me a receipt.

    PS You get me into Miss World you can come as my escort.

    Reply
    • Mick 15/09/12 #

      So they need to get a receipt book for this, prob a credit card reader, prob won’t be able to accept cheques in case they bounce, then you need to send this to a government official, each government official will need need a facility to match this payment to your record in revenue and prob social protection as they don’t have joined up systems… Then they need to provide you with correspondence that you have paid…plus u need to pay for post, real cost saving idea there, really really good idea Danny…

      Reply
    • why are you choosing to be governed by these fools. tax this tax that high car taxes for our roads yet we pay tolls… etc…..etc….etc. they have wasted billions of our money isnt that treason of some form?……

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  • Who is going to put a value on our properties? Will they be over valued or under valued or honestly valued, seems to me like a lot of scope for conning the people of our our much loved over stretched country again.

    Reply
  • Hi Mick I’m not going tit for tat with someone who doesn’t use there full name. I do love animals we need a lot more of them it would help lift the country out of recession. Buzz Buzz there you go two buzz words. Miss World would be awesome please arrange it.

    Reply
  • They are going to start taxing our dreams soon…

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  • Just dont pay it….its about time some of those bond holders took a hit and that will never happen while people are still giving theyre money away.

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  • Whether it’s a value based tax or a site value tax, the govt also needs to look at the fairness of any tax.

    Ability to pay must be give due consideration.

    Also, buyers from 2003-2008 should be exempted at least until the stamp duty (property tax) they already paid is covered.

    The big worry is that any short term benefit in terms of tax take will be wiped out by increased bank losses (our losses) on the back of a further (inevitable) decline in the property market – just as it was starting to show some signs of life.

    This doesn’t make much economic sense to me but I’m no economist.

    Reply
    • Real economists are just ordinary people trying to manage to live day by day on the little they have, imaginary economists are those taking home hefty salaries for sitting in offices designing charts to show how THEY are able to manage to live.

      Reply
    • Mick 16/09/12 #

      Richard…that’s silly, if they were real economists they would not have been stupid enough to buy houses when a crash was coming, or they would not have been stupid enough to take the easy route and go into construction after school. Some real economists Richard eh?

      Reply
  • Completely agree ;)

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  • Running the country by generating taxes on the transaction of buying and selling as was the case meant that there’s plenty of tax during a boom but none in a bust , switching the country to a system that generates steady annual tax from property and not from the transaction is far more sustainable and leaves the country better able to plan budgets as you can calculate how much tax is generated every year without relaying a property bubble , the article is nice and populist but seems to miss the key point of why we are switching to a steady tax like most countries , and not one based on buying and selling properties , the author has completely missed the point.

    Reply
  • Rugbys on mick

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  • With over 20 years experience in real estate valuation mostly in the United States, where real estate taxes are the norm, I am amazed at the confusion on this issue. Nobody wants taxes, but if through government left it up to each county and kept it local, then there would be greater accountability for those running the county council. As for site valuation verses valuing the improvements, it doesn’t matter. At the end of the day the government has to raise a certain amount of revenue and whichever method is used, it is the tax rate that is important. The main question is why won’t the government leave it up to each county council? Lastly, who is going to do the valuing, the same estate agents and auctioneer test have a monetary interest in the sale price of real estate? How objective can a person be when their earning potential is directly related to a sale? The system needs changing.

    Reply
  • I like it :-)

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  • This tax will hit hardest in rural areas like Connemara and West Cork. Where small time farmers try to scratch out a living on the granite strewn land of their fathers. They will be forced to sell their small parcel holdings to rich landlords because they can’t afford the tax on their land. Then they’ll get evicted because they can’t afford the rent… Then the potato crop will fail! Get the workhouses ready!

    Reply
    • not sure if you’re being satirical or not but for the benefit of those who take your remarks seriously – the property tax (in whatever form) will affect urban dwellers much more than those in rural areas. The market value tax disproportionally so.

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  • A turkey offering himself for Christmas dinner. A property tax that bears no relation to the families income is a regressive tax. Only the rich and poor fools argue for the introduction of regressive tax.

    Definition of ‘Regressive Tax’ – A tax that takes a larger percentage from low-income people than from high-income people. A regressive tax is generally a tax that is applied uniformly. This means that it hits lower-income individuals harder.

    Site value or house value it make little difference. Our only succor, either way Dubin people pay more.

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    • Blaithin , the article suggested that property tax would lead to another property bubble , debating if the tax is regressive or progressive is all very well , but the unpopular truth is that one of the main factors that has us in this mess -is that massive taxes were generated by the buying and selling of property , the main reason that we need to change the property tax system is so that the country gets a steady flow of money every year from property taxes and not just when they are being bought and sold – i know it gets more red thumbs than green thumbs because its not popular- but we need to make sure that the island can be run without replying on a bubble – and contrary to what the author says a new property tax is not likely to cause another frenzy or property bubble.

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    • Dave Hammond, the simple fact of the matter is that the author has no expertise in the area of taxation and government. It is at best a layman’s understanding and at worst nincompoopery (and I am trying not to be unkind). Frankly I do not see where he is arguing that it will lead to another property bubble. He thinks (in error) that we will have another property boom when in actual fact this generation has learned a very hard lesson and they will be happy to break even or limit their losses rather than seek boom time profits. Perhaps he thinks (with some justification) that the government are banking on a new property boom to secure its future finances but despite some justification for this belief he is again it is in error. The simple fact of the matter the fairest way to raise new taxes is through income tax but this idea is currently politically unpopular as when the rich have the government by the balls their hearts and minds follow.

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  • what property tax. whom is it being paid too? and for what reason? do the people living in council owned home pay the same tax? im on the understanding thats a NO. isnt that discrimination?……. its no good them askong me ive decided im a FREE MAN and refuse to be governed by the irish government any longer…

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  • I’m not following the author’s logic… The gov’t is talking about making homeowners themselves assess the value of their houses (that’s what I read in this very paper last week, unless the gov’t came up with some new idea this week),,, (I’m not going to go about the stupidity of that idea here)… What do you think homeowners will do – inflate the value of their houses, so that they could pay more tax or understate the value to pay less tax? Take a guess… How will tax on property fuel the bubble?! Unless the author thinks that the Irish people are absolutely insane when it comes to property meaning they reduce the value of their existing house to pay less tax, so that they can buy more real estate in a depressed environment… The Irish people ARE obsessed with property ownership but I don’t think to that extent… Maybe I’m wrong though…

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  • Surely if you can get the bank to give you a loan for a house an additional 1% won’t make to much of a difference..

    For example if you can afford to take a 300k morgage €3000 Ain’t gonna hurt that much

    mortgage out

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  • Spot on Don

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