And so it begins.

This was never a secret, I have an early EU information booklet which says one of the goals of the EU is to become a federal state.

I have a question… If this “US of E” would require a new treaty Ireland will have to vote on it, but what of those European countries where they don’t hold referendums for such things? Would it really be left up to the government of the day to take such a radical step? I cannot see how people would be happy moving in this direction at all.

He thinks it would be a mistake to leave nations to nationalism and populism? Who is this man to say what nations can and cannot do? I don’t recall voting for him.

Get the feeling the whole sh**strom we’re going through was engineered ,or maybe i forgot to put on my tin foil hat.

How can anyone think moving power further away from ordinary citizens is a good idea?

I guess this means more unelected people in power so.

Good luck trying to get people to vote for this ‘federation of nation states’

It has always been the idea. Anyone that thinks different is an idiot. This whole economic crash was either engineered or exasperated by the powers that be in order to rail road the entire eurozone towards a super state, sharing foreign policy.

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”

Jean Monnet, Founder of the European Movement. Former Cognac salesman and bureaucrat at the League of Nations. 30 April 1952.

It began in 1973 its just the various interested parties in this country have always tried to maintain the charade that a United states of Europe was not the final destination of the CM/EEC/EC/EU…USE

All this was said in the documentary “inside job”. I highly recommend watching it online somewhere.

The problem with this proposal is that the current EU structures have a huge democratic deficit. It has been discussed, and discussed ad nauseum, but very little has been done to address it other than giving the parliament a little bit of extra power.

The European Parliament remains very weak and very little has been done to look at how the Commission could be democratised.

Perhaps we do need to look at this model, but we would need total reform of the entire system from the ground up and that is something that is likely to take years, if not decades! It’s not something you can do over night in reaction to market concerns.

Realistically, we would need something along the lines of the US Federal Government structures i.e. an elected Senate replacing the Commission, the parliament given a huge amount more power as a true legislature and possibly even look at something like a pan-European directly elected president.

Given that we have 27 completely separate political systems, I am not sure how you could just unite them into one grand pan-EU system over night. There aren’t even any true pan-European parties. All we have at the moment is sort of vague flags of convenience in the European Parliament that allow similar parties to work together.

Change like this could easily take 30 years or more, yet I get the impression these guys want it to happen very quickly to address short-term financial concerns. I really don’t think that’s going to be very easy or necessarily very desirable.

Without massive reform, I can’t really see such a proposal going through.

Why is the answer to any problem in Europe always “more Europe”?

Could it be related to the Giant Brussels Gravy Train?

so we go from a Union that exploits the vulnerable (low paid and poor) to a Federation that does the same thing.

Next step on the road of a One World Government.

European Union, American Union, African Union. Eventually Asia to follow suits when they topple N Korea an The middle East when the clear away Syria and Iran.

“The fusion (of economic functions) would compel nations to fuse their sovereignty into that of a single European State.”

Jean Monnet, founder of the European Movement, April 3, 1952

Barroso said there was a need for a, “sharing of sovereignty in a way that each country and each citizen is better able to control their destiny”.

Possibly the best example of Doublespeak from the EU that I’ve ever seen.

Wow and there’s people calling me a conspiracy theory tin foil hat wearer for the last 10yrs for suggesting this was coming . Good thing is from the comments here so far people have finally woken up to what’s going on around them .

Guys and Gals I feel your pain ,as a believer in the movement of goods services and labour across Europe the original idea,I supported the common market .You or i should be able to purchase goods in another country e.g a car in Spain pay that country’s tax and import without further tax.Sucessive Governments changed the rules to generate revenue even got rid of Duty Free except for Diplomatic staff and Government officials,in other words give the citizen no direct benefit.
We have three options
1 leave and go it alone
2 leave and join another club UK/Commonwealth or approach USA and be federated like Costa Rica
3 stay and become A fully integrated. European.
I don’t have a easy answer but it will soon mean make our mind an sure as hell it ain’t going to be easy

Here we go again, there is only one EU country whose people get to vote on a Treaty change.

I’m non my way to Paddy Powers to put my money on them bending over with smile as they always do.

Is it not worth discussing? The USA works fairly well as a federation of states with each state able to set its own taxes & laws within the boundaries of the constitution. The EU worked wonders for us prior to the economic crash, and it wasn’t the EU that put lax controls on our banks or provided incentives to build build build. If your looking for someone to blame, if you don’t want to bash the Irish government too much, try China, who pumped billions and billions of their trade surpluses into European banks funding unprecedented levels of cheap credit. Together the EU is the largest economy on the planet, we could, if it were run right, pool resources and do good for our peoples, stopping duplication across every state: our poor excuse for a health service would be a start. It wouldn’t stop us being who we are, ultimately the EU is too culturally and linguistically diverse to ever become a USA. I am not saying I am sold, I am saying its worth discussing.

Barry, you bet me to it. Had that quote, ready to be pasted.

The Troika the Third Reich more like new treatys time to shit oneself.

Didn’t see that coming.

Hey Barroso-baby! As me aul mate from Monaghan would say
“Ya can kiss the butt end of me balls”

Heres Nigel Farages response to Barrosos statement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vms_vd_yWgY

Fcuk off, Baroso!

*Apologies – I’m reposting part of my previous post because I posted on a mobile phone & predictive typing changed a key word changing the meaning of the whole thing*

To an extent, the **Euro** was symptomatic of the approach. We put a federal currency in place without a federal fiscal system because nobody was prepared to really discuss what that might entail – creating a democratic federation of some sort.
You can’t have it both ways – federal government without federal democracy. It’s a recipe for big trouble!

Boom and there it is at last the power people come clean about their intentions.

EU referenda pls

I wouldn’t be against the idea if they got rid of the gravy train and ridiculous bureaucracy in Brussels. Whether that will happen though…

Leading on from Graham’s post above, there is no “believing” that extreme nationalism will be the result of further European integration. All you have to do is look at the direction of the electorates in each EU country. Granted there will be other reasons for the rise in anti-EU/regionalist parties such as economic conditions, social conditions, etc.

Take a look at 2011 elections in Europe. In Finland there was a 15% swing towards the Eurosceptic, rightwing, nationalist True Finns. In the Netherlands the far-right Party for Freedom went from 0 Senate seats to 10, the largest gain of any Dutch party. Basque nationalist parties gained 20 seats in Basque municipal elections, compared with a single seat gain for pro-Spanish parties. A referendum in Wales was passed introducing further devolution to that country. In Latvia the far-right Nationalist Alliance experienced a 6% upswing in the popular vote.

2012 saw a 5 seat increase for the National Front, regionalist parties and far-right parties in France. Add to these results the new-found confidence in the SNP in Scotland, so much so it announced a referendum for independence for 2014. Look at Belgium where it’s becoming increasingly difficult to maintain the unity of that country. Look at the growth in parties such as the BNP, far-right parties in Hungary, Austria and Greece.

More and more centralisation of power in Europe is further alienating those who no longer feel they have any input into the political, social and economic structures of Europe. They feel isolated and as a result are turning towards isolationist and regionalist parties. There is a growing confidence amongst many of the more extreme right wing groups – a very frightening prospect. Rather than encouraging peace and unity among the peoples of Europe, further integration is creating serious tensions and strains.

The fact is that the EU is a supranational organisation attempting to pose as a superstate, composed of 27 states, differing forms of government, over 45 indigenous linguistic groups, more than 50 different ethnic groups, Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, those of no faith, industrial heartlands and neglected rural outposts, neutral and non-neutral countries, differing histories, cultures, economic and social expectations and attitudes, etc.

Working together while recognising our differences is far more preferable in my opinion than a European unity forced from above which is increasingly fragmenting. Such a concept existed with the Common Market and the EEC. I was an avid supporter of that Europe. The current direction of the EU has turned me very much towards the Eurosceptic side.

A Federated Europe run by unelected leaders?

That’s not a million miles away from what Adolf Hitler was trying to achieve!

Red thumbs for against this proposal. Green thumbs for a United European States.

f**k the eu.ireland should align itself with the bric countries.it would be a great move for our country.

I’m really pleased to see so many people so well informed about the fascist EU, yes indeed it is the gateway project to the NWO. However, it seems the EU is on the way out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eTaGnQMHfs&feature=player_embedded#! listen at about 26 minutes, very interesting!