Need to raise more money now because the growth factor predicted at the time of croke park 1 didn’t materialise. So they are looking for an agreement to kick in this year. The croke park 1 date will be torn up if ballot goes their way and the unions vote for it.

I think the government was looking for an EXTENSION to CP1. Perhaps this was overlooked amid all the rhetoric.

No. They are not looking for an extension. They are replacing CP1 with this new one to take effect from whenever it’s passed by unions. It is not only taking effect from June 2014.

And why would think they are looking for an extension?
Did you see the budget deficit this country is currently facing?
Did you see the rates we pay our public sector compared to other Eurozone countries?

Greece?? Moldova?? Is it Reggie??

Pablo, it’s not black and white. Some people think that the money they get magically falls from the sky! It is a fact, you cannot argue with ignorance, nor debate with stupidity! I learned that in management school. When your run in to such type of people you have to deal with them differently! Facts, logic, and reason will not work!

Having my income taken from me as taxes, used in order to lobby the government for increases my taxes in order to pay for wages, allowances and retirement plans, is not really fair. The government could be brought back down in line with the private sector. Once we see no disparity in pay and benefits. Presently, you don’t see many quitting government jobs. You see people scrambling to get government jobs (in many cases).

@ Reggie will you not clear off back to Greece!!

How much has the wages of the frontline public service in Uzbekistan been cut Reg?

What do you make Reg in your job, what do you produce?

Have you seen the rates our governments are paid

Kenny is paid more than Obama, and for what?????

Sweet f.a

Another drama queen story about life on the “frontline”. Is that in Iraq or someplace? It must be, because it’s certainly couldn’t be more amateur dramatics about the trauma of having to deliver services to taxpayers.

Did you see the rates we pay our public representatives in comparison to other countries?

@ Catherine

That said, I doubt that there exists a single union public employee that harbors even the slightest notion that they are a public servant hired to tend to the public’s needs (hopefully I’m wrong).

Underfunded overtime plans and over-promised pensions are the problem of the exchequer. Simple mathematics is going to be the final arbiter and they will eventually see their wages and pensions cut. I hope they are smart enough to be planning for that eventuality. So they were lied to. So what? They can take their beef up with the Labor Party that purchased their support with the false promises. Nobody ever said being used as a fool was a comfortable feeling. Reality has a way of biting in the end, and we are approaching the fiscal end.

Reg. I have asked you several questions on different threads and you have declined to answer any of them so let me try again.
Do you want a professional well equipped well trained Police Force, Firebrigade,Emergency Room Staff, Prison Service and Courts Service?
Are you prepared to pay for these same services?
Or do you want a Third World equilivent of the above Services?
Would you agree that in the private sector that highly qualified people demand decent wages? That in the Private sector you get the best staff only if you pay the best wages?

Those are some quality contributions tonight Betty. Keep up the good work of making yourself look like an idiot

This guy is a serious troll. Ignore.

Whoa…late nights getting to me! Comment directed to Reginold(!) of course!

@Gavin there is only so much rubbish one can listen to from the likes of Reggie. He is consistent with his trolling on all threads that relate to this topic! I am far from an idiot my good man!!

Reg I’ve seen the crap you’ve posted over the last few weeks on this site. It’s plainly obvious you’re trolling as per your constant copying and pasting of your older posts. There is meaningful contribution to an article and then there is being a pr@*k, which is what you are being.
Your arguments are at best dubious and your figures unsupported and uncorroborated by independent fact of figures. You constantly refer to economies that only a fool would attempt draw comparison with. You have been asked by countless posters what profession you are employed in and you have never given a specific answer. You’re a pathetic example of the keyboard economist,
a man who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

Ok so I haven’t reviewed all Reggies past posts but I think it’s just lazy to call someone a troll when you don’t agree with them. I’ve had a look at some of his comments tonight and they seem pretty straight forward. One of the first was that the government would likely have legislated (and still may) if agreement was not found. Does anyone here think thats incorrect or at least not a likely scenario? Yet it gets an avalance of red thumbs. Another comment that the government faces a large deficit gets the same treatement as does a statement that many people support public sector reform. None of this is trolling, they are just statements of facts.

As I have stated previously in another thread most of the 1billion savings the Government are after can come from other areas but because they for reason are ring fenced by politicians not for any financial reasons but because of political sensitivity the Government will not touch. The Public Sector is a much easier sell to Joe Public especially in these hard times than these Sacred Cows of theirs. Someone has to get thrown to the wolves and they are not going to Sacrifice themselves.

In fairness come out on an ambulance for a night in Dublin & you would see it ain’t far off being in Iraq!! You’ve no idea!

Reggie, stop calling civil service “government”. They are not one and the same!

Reginald, a couple of facts, firstly nobody is disputing that the country has a huge budgetary deficit but the fact remains that if the proposed croke park deal goes through and by the way I include the graduate nurse” deal” in this the country will essentially be paying its frontline staff Gardai, Nurses, Paramedics and Firefighters wages that are going to be paid slightly higher than minimum wage! In fact calculating the wage for a graduate nurse on their proposal and add on extra hours the government wishes to add to there working week it works out nurses will be on €7.86 ph . A student Paramedic will be on less than 12 euros per hour.
I do know the costs within the public sector do need to be rationalised but your savings will come from reforming the civil service and rarionalising the high earners. In terms of both croke park agreements they first picked the low hanging fruit and are now attempting to strip the bark!
This frontline alliance is a good thing for both the productive staff it represents and the community at large! It’s morally wrong to attack the most vulnerable in society and attacking people who are committed to humanitarian work is about as low as you can get

You have 53 ambulances nationally to keep 4 million people safe and 2000 approximately practitioners qualified for same. In Dublin alone 100000 emergency ambulance calls are logged with an average of 15 ambulances to serve that area and now shifts are being dropped. As I said before strip the bark if you wish but you attack the

Some people think money falls from the sky……people like banks and bank managers who refuse to fully engage with cash strapped mortgage owners with negative equity. The mortgage contracts were approved on “guaranteed” future earnings which hasn’t been the case for years now. Ironically now the only things that turned out to be “guaranteed” were the banks and UNSECURED bondholders which have no concern for the public sector or indeed the other citizens of this state, public, private or otherwise. The public sector workers are now forced to endure a separate budget in this year constructed under the guise of croke park 2 before the inevitable tax rise that will come in the next national budget. A budget that I feel will push more families further over the poverty line.

What Reg?

Follow me here….

I said they weren’t.

You said they were.

Now you’re asking me why I think they are looking for an extension?

Ill say it again,

THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR AN EXTENSION.

And when making comparisons compare like with like please.

You realize many people support reforms to the public sector?

You do realise many would support your blocking from this forum but hey that’s another story :-)

Not a fan either of everything Regenold has to say but he is entitled to his opinion and has as much right to speak his mind as anyone posting on here.

@Regonald.

Aside from the Public Sector infatuation facade. I worry about you.

Thank you Begrudgy :)

@begrudgery that’s true hence he is still posting, just saying there’s a lot that would support it though all the same

Reg , I support public service reform, please point out the reform in this agreement

I don’t like Reg. But he, like everyone else, has a right to express his thoughts, even if they upset a lot of people,(which they do).

Doesn’t upset me cause he is trolling. It’s plainly obvious to see. He has contradicted himself a lot over the last two weeks. One moment he’s self employed, the next working in the ‘productive sector’, whatever the hell that is.

Pablo, show your debate skills. Trying to justify big government because of the “frontline” makes no economic sense at all. If you don’t like your employer’s policies or your job, then quit and go to work in the private sector. It is interesting to see a politician try to argue his best to explain the dire financial situation facing the country. Government-run industry is at an advantage vis-a-vis private enterprise because they often don’t need to turn a profit. Oddly, though, private industry still works better than government.

Reg, don’t work frontline, support them though because I have worked shift in the past, and it is bloody hard. It’s a vocation. I just think your POV is too black, too negative and too pro government.

would you all cop on, reg posts using a false name and profile picture, he seems to spend so much time in here that he can’t be holding down a job…..he’s a troll, a Walter mitty character who gets a thrill from the attention you lot give him, ignore him and he will go away….keep taking his bait and he’ll never stop

@reggie 24/7 alliance also supports reforms in the sector, there is a big difference between reforms and slashing pay packets to a point where lifes gone past a struggle. The people you depend on reggie deserve better.

Mr. O Donnell,

I thought the same until I seen these figures:

” A nurse’s pay for a 12-hour Sunday shift can range from €417 to €604. These sums will reduce to €365 and €516 under the new cuts ”

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nurses-must-swallow-bitter-pill-of-39hour-week-29093728.html

Reggio you are a pain in the butt and so very annoying!

This figures are incorrect they can start at 312.

Regonald, we really will have to find you a hobby, join a book club, get a girlfriend,anything, go away.

Reg still waiting on you to point out the reform of the public service on this agreement,
You who says you like to debate

Why so Angela? Just because he has expressed an opinion that you don’t like to hear?

We`re all up for reform Reggie but it has to be done in a fair way we still have an over paid public service at the top of the food chain who have constantly cut very little fat from the top but have constantly attacked the frontline workers who lets face it do the hardest work in bad situations and often at their own expense ie. garda using their own phones and sometimes transport as well as others so can you please post a comment that applies a way of doing things they way you think they should be done many people have asked this from you but havent come up with a solution that we can examine

Reg if you don’t like paying taxes then f**k off somewhere were you don’t have to.

Gavin Ross = Regonald Timpson

Gavin you haven’t obviously been following the various Journal articles concerning the Croke Park negotiations in the past week. I mean absolutely no disrespect to you, but if you were following the various posts by readers you would fully understand the annoyance of genuine posters with this guy. He is cutting and pasting the same rhetoric over and over and over in the fora related to CP I have no doubt but that he is getting some thrill at the attention. It is not for his contribution to this particular article alone that he is rightly being labelled a troll. Have a look back and see yourself, but it wouldn’t be a productive exercise. He is even using a fake picture of a male model as his avatar.

Is this thread about frontline workers and CP II or whether or not Regonald is a troll? Whether I agree or disagree with him the man is entitled to his opinion. And so what if he copies and pastes his posts, there are a lot of people who comment on the Journal that are constantly repeating themselves.

Ah yes. Yet again someone believing everything that the public sector hating independant says. Those figures are more propaganda by that rag..

The government would only legislate if no agreement was found…

Let them legislate then, I want them to legislate! That’s something they don’t want to do and will really test their mettle…

Troll.

Union leadership in gov pockets but membership may see thru the conjob and support frontline alliance.
Howlin “this will be the last time” smells of bull to me.

No problem. I guess if there’s no work done, there’s no pay, right?

I think Reg may actually be Inda in disguise!!

Just say no, organise, refuse any more interest rate hikes, default en masse, anything that will make the government listen ,money talks.

I am an independent thinker. I work in the productive sector and I don’t think the government is aware of the people’s opposition to the impending house tax and water charges. I favor cutting spending (as would many other Irish people working in the productive sector).

You are an independent alright. But not a thinker…almost rhymes with it though

And I’ve noticed Richard rogers, Paddy, mark have disappeared hmmm. I bet one of them shows up soon to try and show Reggie is not the same person!!!

I think it’s pretty funny to see all the abuse dished out to Reggie by the magic money tree crowd.

Some of you have a real hard time listening to alternative points of view.

‘Independent thinker’. Lol. Anyone else notice that Regonald posts the exact same paragraphs in multiple public sector pay related articles? Get a life Reggie baby.

I favour cutting RIDICOLOUS wages of very underworked politicians.
I favour abolishing 7.2 Million travel expenses for the government
I favour abolishing all expenses claimed by government officials

Actually I favour just getting rid of the whole government and bringing in a completely new citizen based system, not a greed and corporate based government!

Magic money tree my hole.

I may be wrong but if the government legislate it wud force them to take a larger pay cut than the lower paid, if they legislate and it’s not fair( government knowing the meaning of the work fair, don’t make me laugh) they can be taken to court over it, this agreement isn’t fair, the lower paid and frontline workers taking an 8% pay cut and there crime is working weekends, an 8% cut the same as a high paid public sector worker, the cuts to lower paid workers are not been brought out in the newspaper me thinks the government are putting another spin on this, my heart bleeds for enda kenny losing just €7000 shocking vote no

public sector will flex muscles as you put it but im honestly worried where it will end. I really dont want to put out the public just want to do my job but i cant take 8% hit. its already down to the wire. Cant take it but will be forced on me like others and cant see any other way out then to fight back

@Censored, it’s not an alternative point of view, it’s rhetoric that has been dished out at us by everyone and anyone who demonises the “highly paid public service”.
An alternative POV would be coming from those of us who could offer alternative methods of saving money, instead of axing everyone in the neck (both the providers and the users), how’s about streamlining the services? Too alternative for Reg? Oh no, no, no… We must demonise! For it is only demonising that improves services… Oh wait…

There was a magic money tree for bankers, politicians, developers and “friends in need”. There is still wealth in this country, only our government is either too corrupt or incompetent to maximise this wealth and generate more wealth as a result.

Policing by it’s nature is not productive, it is a massively varying thing. It’s separate and independent. It does not have a money making agenda. The same can be said for many other frontline services. You can’t measure the good that these workers do and your shortsighted statement about a “productive” sector shows your lack of understanding on the subject. Apples and oranges…….

That’s one of the proposals afaik

They’re not cutting the golden minister’s pensions or Enda’s pay by enough.

With higher income comes more discretionary spending. Enda’s pay should be adjusted to a reasonable figure, in line with other European leaders. His attitude stinks: look at me, I’m taking a pay cut. He does not set a good example. The cuts on the lower paid have a much bigger impact since you’re cutting into food/housing/survival money there.

Ya fionnuala

Liam Doran with round glasses and a goatee. Jaysus, Trotski, the spit.

But he still goes around in the best of suits. As I said, he’s a windbag and a well paid one.

The nurse’s unions do a terrible job representing them, just like all the other PS unions. It really defies logic to understand why there are so many PS unions anyway. These guys are the biggest obstacle to reform, and they just want to feather their own nests at the expense of the ordinary members.

I’m guessing they want someone else to pay.

‘Don’t cut me, don’t cut thee, cut that one behind the tree’.

Or willing to reduce the number employed in the PS in order to retain salary levels.

We were promised productivity improvements. That implies fewer people doing the same job more efficiently.

How can you ‘feel dirty participating in a union’ when you aren’t even allowed be a member of one?

John there is some logic in you argument , but we don’t look down our noises at other public servants , but see that they are better looked after than we are
Before agreement
They do 35 hours we do 37.5-39
They have flexi time we don’t
They get the same sick leave working in less dangerous / environment
They have less difficulty getting Career breaks
Civil servants can take up to five years leave and still have a job to return too
This agreement
Cut our pay and not theirs
The unions are their unions, not ours

Thank you Shea, you have just proven my point.

John glad to be of help, anything else just ask

For John ,
Frontline, basic pay plus premium, less than 65.000, taken home pay Reduced

9-5 staff less than 65-000, No cut to take home pay

I repeat these unions represent you well, but don’t represent us

For info only , at present I’m a member of Siptu, something I will be looking at in lite of this agreement

Sadly I would defend this agreement if I were you, and probable engage in the sad attacks on union leaders opposed to it ( Liam doran) as you have done on this site

Frontline = Job for life
*note your life might be ended early by man with gun/knife etc

Gerry everyone gets the old age pension, so you will too,

Gerry frontline jobs are permanent because their needed, nurses / guards/ fire service / prison officers etc,
These are real jobs and needed,

Some private sector jobs are by their nature temporary, factors produce goods no longer required, financial structures change and some don’t train up,

@gerry Murphy, the job applications for public sector employment were in the very same paper that you read. You chose the private sector, good pay, bonus payments. I too joined the private sector. But when the opportunity came to join a career I always wanted to do, I applied and got my public sector, basic pay, no bonus job! While I’m still happy with my decision I’m sick of the “you’re lucky to have a job at all” opinions! Times are tough with everyone both private and public sectors! I am on the edge on losing my house due to pay cuts already taken. It’s not a matter of “won’t take another cut” but a matter of “cannot physically take another cut!” It’s about time those useless shower have a long hard luck t the 300 odd million that they’ve sent abroad so that some Ugandan assh*le can get his pool fixed, get rid of play stations in prisons and have a good look at repeat offender legal aid merchants!! There are massive savings to be made and I’m afraid they are looking in the wrong place!!

Not so. Public servants are not entitled to the SW Old Aged Pensions. They only get the occupational pension.

You’re missing the point. Don’t want to work in the PS, and don’t want to pay through the nose for crappy services either.

I earned more when i worked in the private sector bell end.

Did ye complain when yis were earning a bloody mint laughing at the lads on 30k working in the local dole office. No you didn’t. You made your choice so did the public servant.

Yep, when you rob Peter to pay Paul you can always count on Paul’s support. You’re still missing the point: we are not all clamoring for jobs in the PS. Just saying the gravy train has come to an end, it’s time to cut your coat according to your cloth.

Yes but not as good as yours!

How is this a fair deal?????

How is this a fair deal???

That’s cos they’re waiting for their wages to go in so they can afford the petrol home

I didn’t know d garda paid petrol for d patrol car

@fuzzy… I worry for u, u poor uneducated man. What’s your job?

Well I’m between jobs at d moment. I can still have a apionion

What do yea mean. I have two kids right and both der ma’s work alrgt. Just cause I’m on job seakers doesn’t mean I’m less human

Fuzzy you’re havin a laugh are ya?

where better to practice your spelling/grammar than on the journal?

If your worried about the state finances I presume you are not in receipt of any free state money