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Dublin: 11 °C Monday 20 May, 2013

Some allowances should be subsumed into core pay, say Garda reps

Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan and representatives of garda bodies appearing before Public Accounts Committee.

Image: Niall Carson/PA Archive/Press Association Images

SOME OF THE 108 allowances paid to serving Gardaí should be subsumed into core pay, members of Garda representative organisations and the Garda Commissioner have said.

Speaking before the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee, the Secretary General of the Garda Representative Association PJ Stone said doing so would remove the notion that they were paid as a perk.

The rent allowance, for example, was first introduced to the Royal Irish Constabulary in 1883 and had been subsumed into core pay by police forces in Britain.

However, he said that it was a “misnomer” that Gardaí were receiving all the allowances, with those that are paid done for very specific reasons such as working over time.

“You have to be able to put people out there tonight from 9pm to 9am. That is why a shift allowance is paid for those terrible hours outside the norm. So it is not as easy to subsume (it) into pay.”

11 allowances have been identified by the committee for withdrawal to new beneficiaries. In total, €240m worth of allowances are paid to Gardaí.

Mr Stone said that the debate on allowances “had been conducted in an atmosphere of hysteria”, with only 34 of the 108 allowances in usage.

Louth TD Gerald Nash questioned why four Garda Inspectors were paid €60,000 in allowances and overtime.

According to Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan, they were required to travel extensively and work unsocial hours.

14,377 Gardaí were employed in December 2010. As of October 26th, 13,476 were in employment.

Public Sector Allowances: The ones they *might* change>

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Comments (69 Comments)

  • @joe ozone.
    Fair comments. I agree 100%. More cops on the street. better and more patrol cars.

    Reply
  • Ah bill, you really are so ignorant it is beyond belief. To come out with such a flippant statement like that just shows what kind of person you are. Next time you need assistance don’t bother calling 999 for the gardai if u feel they’re not up to you standard. Those men and woman it their lives on the line for u and I 24/7.

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  • Una you say the Gardai are inefficient. if they are so inefficient why are our prisons overcrowded? why do we have so many prisoners out on t.r.? why is our court system swamped? yes the Gardai are highly inefficient indeed!!

    Reply
    • Tommy C 02/11/12 #

      Agreed. The gardai can only do so much. For example they arrest those suspected of sexual offenses and then some judge lets them go with a fine! Im sure if the gardai had their way, thered be even more knacks locked up. Its the judges who need to be looked at, pay and ethics wise and the gardai need more resourses and pay.

      Reply
  • We need a well paid police force . Several studies have noted that where you have low paid police forces – corruption is high .
    Our lads have a tough job with their hands tied by the state ect . Don’t shoot the messenger .
    Speaking directly to the policy makers here , you need to do something about the number of police on patrol on say nights – in every city centre .
    Spent a week in N.Y.there on holidays – walking around the city at night , no one would say boo to you . Cop on every second street Cornor , hand on the hip.
    Bump into someone in the q in abrakabra on sat night in Ireland and you could be in serious trouble because the police are strecrhed so thin .
    Look after our police. Give us more men and women on the beat to keep our city’s safe.
    Make it an attractive job .
    Simples .

    Reply
    • Tommy C 02/11/12 #

      Joe, a few years ago, we couldnt get public sector or civil servant workers because the pay was so low. Then the pay went up to try and make these jobs attractive and now everyone is bitching and moaning at us telling us that the papy is too high.
      You’ll never make these jobs attractive without decent salaries and yet we are getting it in the neck from the public.

      Reply
  • Allowances must stop for TDs and serior civil servants first. Lead by example Enda. howlan should resign as the quangos are still in full flight with all their allowances.

    Reply
  • I feel for the gardai. Number of members declining, workloads increasing, wages declining, burglaries and serious crime increasing. I think the typical Garda bashing has to cease. Hardworking men and women being strangled by poor governance. .

    Reply
    • Most ‘anti-Garda’ muppets saying that Gardai are overpaid and calling for the abolition of allowances don’t realise the following, Garda pay has gone down every year for a number of years now and the government is not finished taking yet. Private sector workers baying for blood will do well to note that Garda pay did mot increase in the boom. As An Garda Siochana are legally not allowed to have a union the government feel safe enough taking more and more and if Gardai make noise about it they (government) inject negative news and the public get their feathers all ruffled. The point is that once allowances are folded into pay the government will be able to make a HUGE cut and I mean huge cut further marginalising Gardai.

      Reply
  • Ah bill, what a ignorant and flippant comment to spew. If the gardai are that useless in your mind don’t bother ringing 999 next time you’re in need of assistance. Gardai put their lives on the lines 24/7 for you and I and for very little in return. The least you can do is stop your populist Garda bashing. It doesn’t suit you. #whatgoessoroundcomes-around.

    Reply
  • Yoyo 01/11/12 #

    Una, im not informed enough to argue with your statement so just wondering where u got ur info? I’d like to have a read that’s all

    Reply
  • The emergency services, prison officers, nurses – the front line staff in this country are paid pittance for their work.
    You couldn’t pay me enough to deal with the crap they put up with.
    Unless you are looking at a pay rise for them, which they 100% deserve, leave them be.
    Thanks again to them all, I for one admire each and every one of you.

    Reply
    • They aren’t exactly paid a pittance in fairness! I have the upmost respect for our emergency services but they are Undermanned and under resourced. Surely if any money is going to be spent it should be on more personnel and equipment and not on pay rises!! Then again I’m not married to a “frontline” worker so I might have a different opinion than you

      Reply
    • @Michael Corr
      I’m not looking to get into an argument here but you should look at the wage of the average, everyday GARDA as opposed on the higher ups. If you still feel like they are overpaid then by all means float your comment again. They have received annual pay cuts for several years now and are facing more. Look up the pay scale and tell me that a ‘Garda’ is overpaid. If you feel aggrieved by my comment then by all means come back with “…they are lucky to have a job…more than the dole…”

      Reply
    • @ Michael Corr – I’m not married to a front line worker I just know what rubbish wages they are on.
      €400 after tax a week for having your life threatened, your children’s lives threatened, having urine and such thrown at you, cleaning up vomit, dealing with junkies, risking their lives………. I couldn’t do it, and wouldn’t do it for the pay they do!
      In my eyes those people deserve a pay rise but we all know that’s not going to happen.
      What I was saying was, unless the government is thinking of increasing their pay, back the f**k off!

      Reply
  • A TD questioning the payment of allowances! People in glass hiuses etc …

    Reply
  • Yoyo 01/11/12 #

    Una, im not informed enough to argue with your statement so just wondering where u got ur info? I’d like to have a read.

    Reply
  • Hopefully u never get your gaffe ramsacked Una , people seem to class the guards as this and that when it suits them. But first to call them when something goes tits up ,
    Yaaaaaawn .

    Reply
  • Aarum 01/11/12 #

    I laugh at the examples they throw out, €60,000 for four inspectors, how much does some jobs in the private sector pay for travel expenses?! Doubt any of those inspectors paid for corporate dinners or have a company credit card also doubt they travel business class either!

    Reply
    • Yes at some levels in private service this may happen but we, as taxpayers are not paying for it. if a profitable company wishes to do so surely that is their business? If profit-margin or growth are affected by it to a scale where prices rise and potential customers turn away or if staff are let go to pay for loose expense spending then the company would have to deal with any backlash also.

      Saying that, I don’t begrudge Gardaí expenses for the most part but maybe a clearer system is needed?

      Reply
  • I am all for cutting the allowances. The problem is I don’t want an under Piaf force. That will just lead to easily bribed police.
    The majority want to just do their jobs and paid reasonable wage. The reliance on overtime as opposed to shift allowance needs to be addressed.

    Reply
    • Easily bribed force? That’s a pretty disgusting comment to make. There is no overtime for Gardai (or at least so little as to make no difference) so how can there be a dependence on something that does not exist? I hope you are entertained by your own sweeping statements

      Reply
  • A question – Would subsuming allowances into core pay rather than paid as a granted allowance affect future pension entitlements?

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  • I never said that they were overpaid. I actually said they are UNDER resourced! Stations are being closed and cars aren’t being replaced.
    Still, €31.54 for overtime isn’t bad I suppose

    Reply
  • BILL……. Who will you call when you need help! Ghostbusters? Read Davy Soup, yes it’s correct. Try that figure in Eastern Europe and you will see what satisfaction with the Police means

    Reply
  • 13,000 police. seriously?

    I live in the city centre, how come i rarely see a guard walking around the core of the city , especially on a busy Friday or Saturday night?

    Where are they?

    Reply
  • Are they doing the CanCan, or has the Revolution started without me? (Pic above FG fans)

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  • I always thought that gardai work 9 to 5! I hope they tell recruits that they have to work “terrible hours” before they sign up

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  • Went into the new York shop hungover one summer. Worst experience ever. First off they made me feel bad about myself by filling the place with muscular male models, the music was louder than the nightclub the night before, couldn’t see anything it was so dark in there, and the staff were too damn enthusiastic!

    Reply
  • Jody , what , in this context , does “subsumed” mean ?

    Reply
  • We probably have the worst police force in Europe and at the moment they have a chip on their shoulder because of the previous pay cuts. I understand that you should get an allowance for working nights because if you didn’t you would not get anyone to take the shift. Our guards dont want to look after the ordinary people and solve small crimes as there is too much work in that and no glory.

    Reply
  • Allowances should be stopped, period. The Gardai are inefficient and yet they get allowances for shoes, unbelievable…

    Reply
    • Considering you get one pair every two years. Wouldit not be right to pay you like a euro a week for when you need to but boots. Sure by all means cut that allowance but on health a safety (hygiene ) new boots every few months please. gortex fit for purpose with steel toecaps. That’s reasonable and would only cost the tax payer ten time as much: ) but yes your right scrap that silly little allowance your perfectly right: )

      Reply
    • When you need to buy boots********. God damn it Samsung the galaxy needs better keyboard: )

      Reply
    • Una you can’t just keep making random statements without backing them up! You don’t seem to have a clue, Take your trolling somewhere else

      Reply
  • “You have to be able to put people out there tonight from 9pm to 9am. That is why a shift allowance is paid for those terrible hours outside the norm. So it is not as easy to subsume (it) into pay.” If Mr Stone said this he should not be representing us, we are not paid a “Shift Allowance” If only we were, I would love a shift allowance,hopefully 33⅓ of basic pay like others, we don’t receive anything like that.

    Reply

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