TheJournal.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more »
Dublin: 18 °C Wednesday 19 June, 2013

Hogan says Fianna Fáil is frightening rural Ireland over septic tank charges

The proposed septic tank registration charge is causing controversy in rural Ireland which believes the measure is unfairly targeted at it.

Environment Minister Phil Hogan
Environment Minister Phil Hogan
Image: Sam Boal/Photocall Ireland

THE MINISTER FOR Environment Phil Hogan has accused the Fianna Fáil environment spokesperson Éamon Ó Cuiv of frightening rural Ireland amid a growing row over septic tank registration fees.

The government is introducing legislation requiring homeowners to register septic tanks at a cost of €50 per tank to allow for inspections to ensure the tanks comply with EU regulations on preventing contamination of ground water and subsequently drinking water.

Ireland currently faces fines over its failure to inspect or monitor septic tanks.

Opposition groups fear the measure unfairly targets rural Ireland and that there will be further cost incurred with having to carry out remedial works on septic tanks of which there are around 475,000 which will have to be registered next year.

Speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Hogan insisted that he was “not introducing legislation because I want to but because I have to” and he accused the previous government of a “lack of will” with complying with the ruling of the European Court of Justice.

He said that once all tanks are registered, inspections will be carried out on a risk-based basis where they are close to water sources.

“All we want to know: is the tank working?” he said while admitting that the cost of any remedial work that is required will be incurred by the owner of the septic tank.

However, Ó Cuív said that the imposition of septic tank performance standards as applied by local authorities on a country-wide basis would mean huge expense for most houses, saying that up to €20,000 would have to spent on upgrading systems in some cases.

He said there had been no information about what the performance standards would be in the new legislation.

In a heated debate, Hogan accused Ó Cuív of frightening people: “You’re going around the country deputy frightening people for the last couple of months,” he said.

Yesterday, a meeting of Galway County Council was disrupted by protesters who are opposed to the plan and see it as unfair on rural dwellers. The Irish Times reports that around 400 protesters carried a toilet through the centre of Galway as part of a demonstration.

The legislation has also been subject of some heated debate in the Dáil chamber with independent Tipperary South TD Mattie McGrath saying last month that the measure would “frighten the life out of rural people and kill any initiative they have”.

He added: “We will turn them into nasty people and when they come to Dublin I know what they will have behind the tractors and the tanks, and I know where they will put it. I have set up a Facebook page called – excuse the language – Stop the Shite, but loads of shite will be coming to Dublin.”

Read: 440,000 septic tank owners to pay €50 inspection fee

  • Share on Facebook
  • Email this article
  •  

Read next:

Comments (34 Comments)

  • My tank was put down under strict regulations from the council
    They came watched the whole process and then their engineer looked at it and passed it
    They can hardly come now and say different can they ?

    Reply
  • Frightening us you say…. Don’t be a p***k Hogan , none of you frighten me and if you think for one sec your getting 50 euro off me to inspect a septic tank that has been functioning properly for 20 years and that soaks into a hole 6 foot underground and disperses odour free to feed my worms you have another thing coming, oh yeah if your cronies try to even set foot on my property you will have to negotiate my Rhodesian Ridgeback and German Shepard , good luck with that :-)

    Reply
    • Fair play to you Dave! If only there was a couple of million others like you!

      Reply
    • Well said Dave. Phil Hogan doesn’t want FF frightening rural Ireland. Fine Gael want that fun all for themselves. Greedy ba****ds!

      Reply
    • gerry 20/12/11 #

      Just thinking of a comment posted here during the week relating to the property charge where a person said that under the constitution nobody can enter your house without a legal warrant (I speak verbatim of course) can we not oppose these inspectors enter our property to do their inspection? Would the government not be going against the constitution by making rules that allow these inspectors onto ones property?

      Reply
    • You are spot on Gerry. It is called ‘Removal of right of implied access’ I believe. As far as I’m aware, once you have this notice posted on your front gate or wall, anybody that passes the notice to enter your property is in acceptance of the terms and conditions of that notice. They can be arrested for trespass and breach of the peace. It can also be served upon an individual if it is posted to them by registered mail. I must google it later!

      Reply
  • Phil Hogan : gets rid of the only cycling officer in the country, when there is more people cycling than taking the Luas.
    Won’t meet the residents of Priory Hall, yet insists they have to pay the new property charge.
    He is basically a stooge for implementing IMF taxes. I hope he enjoys his time on the dole in 4 years time.
    In the meantime, simply refuse to pay any of his new taxes.

    Reply
  • its hypocritical to say they are going to impose this charge, or the eu will fine them. The eu fine them for charging VRT but they are not quick to remedy that.

    Reply
  • Planning permission for a house requiring a septic tank, doesn’t that involve the applicants coughing up money as a contribution to the upkeep of the roads, services, etc? Also if a household has a maintenance contract for their septic, why pay an additional inspection charge? Absurd. A our tax raising gimmick.

    Reply
    • You are correct Adam there is a ‘contribution’ of E3500 that must be paid to the Local Authority upon building a new house, that is a ‘contribution’ towards the facilitys provided and supposedly maintained by the Local Authority that you avail of in the use of your new dwelling – roads, foothpaths, lighting, etc.
      There is also a requirement that if you are obliged by condition of your planning permission to install a mechanical effluent treatment system that you enter into a contractual agreement with the supplier of the system for annual maintainance at your own expense. This outlay may be very well payable along with the E50 inspection fee under the new arrangements and additional work required to the system will also be at your expense.

      Reply
  • Was listening to that ‘debate’ on Morning Ireland. Hogan wouldn’t say what the required standard would be pitched at. I’d say any house of maybe 10 years or older will be looking at a bill for upgrading the septic tank.

    Reply
  • I am a building engineer and can report that where individuals built septic tanks there has been very few problems. Most of the problems arise from the fact that the water table is too high or the soil cannot soak any water due to excessive rainfall leading to a putrid smell. There exists a big problem where developers bought boggy sites close to towns and put multiple houses on the site. I have seen numerous sites where they dug a drain around the perimeter to take the effluent. No sooner are the galluses up than it’s in the river.
    All developers are the same, I got verbal abuse when I refused to pass sites due to no soakage. Then would pay someone to pass the site grab they money and when the place in infested with blue bottles, nothing to due with me, so and so said it was fine.
    There is a problem out there. I build my own septic tank 5000 gallons to make sure it works ok, I will be registering it.
    Most villages dump overflow into rivers, seaside towns into the sea.

    Reply
    • John
      I haven’t heard the expression ‘galluses’ in years!
      Anyway, I’m an architect/planner and have been involved in a fair few court cases where householders were pursuing builders/developers through the courts in relation to dysfunctional septic tank/treatment systems. The problem with all of this as I found was that while there were regulations in relation to water tables, soil percolation rates, constructed percolation areas, outfall for treated effluent etc. etc. none of this was observed or enforced. Percolation test results were ‘doctored’ to meet the required rates, septic tanks were installed where mechanical treatment systems were required to save money, substandard materials were used and plant and machinery were driven over percolation areas during and after construction compacting them and damaging the piping network. The entire thing was a disaster and I believe that probably 80% of single house effluent treatment systems are malfunctioning with untreated effluent reaching rivers and streams and roadways and more importantly contaminating ground water wells. There have been numerous water quality surveys throughout the country where the faecal coliform count was staggering presenting a serious threat to public health.
      In most of the cases where I conducted inspections, prepared reports and gave evidence in court the plaintiffs won their case but the judgement of the court was never imposed and at best a token attempt by the builder was made to rectify the situation.
      I would accept that where septic tank treatment systems are found to be inadequate the cast of remedial work would easily be in the region of E20,000.

      Reply
    • gerry 20/12/11 #

      That said its a developer vs householder including council ignoring or taking responsibility but what about the one off house that runs their septic tank into a field conscious of the effects of the water on animals that might be on the land or local rivers or flood plains and the result

      Reply
    • You also have a point gerry.
      I have came across many instances where people having a new house built resented the outlay of money that would have been required to install a proper effluent treatment system. A properly functioning septic tank system doesn’t, on the face of it, impress the neighbours and in a lot of cases money was appropriated to more conspicuous aspects of the dwelling or the occupants lifestyle.

      Reply
  • Septic tank charge household charge then a property tax soon they will charge to exist a carbon matter tax or do they have that already. It’s great the way this government are determined to buck the trends and be the first country in the world to austeritise and tax it’s way out of a depression. When will they realize they cannot simply continue to burden the people with taxes while the banks haven’t been hit with any new tax just tiny fines from weak financial regulators. Investment is the only way out of a recession not taxation if the government realised this then maybe we will have a chance to prosper instead we are continuing down a dark hole of despair.

    Reply
  • If he says he just wants to see if there working or not why is he charging us 50 euro,I won’t be paying,my septic thank is 3 years old and I paid nearly 3 grand to put it into the ground,so deck off

    Reply
  • A lot of the problems with the tanks relate to the water table and people should not have been given planning permission. I know of one women who tried for 20 years for planning on a site on may occasions and failed. She then sold the site to a developer who built a new house with permission within 6 months. Brown envelopes and criminal planners.

    Reply
    • Frank there have been many cases of what you speak.
      There have indeed been many cases where land being sold without planning permission for development was bought by developers for outrageous amounts of money and without any apparent indication that planning would be obtained (indeed many apparent reasons why it shouldn’t). And low and behold there are houses going up in a years time!
      The path from the Galway Tent was littered with discarded brown envelopes opened by colleagues of Mr. O Cuiv.

      Reply
  • F##k you mister hogan. My septic tank complies i know this cos i had to dig up 3 years ago cos the soak away was clogged cos the developer done a mickey mouse job. I payed to have this done. I also drilled for my own water & that complies also. I dont belive this septic tank propaganda. Yes there are problems with some of them but the people inspecting them are the people giving out the planning for them & we know how trust worthy they are. Shell can come here & take the gas out of the ground for free so you can f##k off if you think im paying for my
    water or septic tank. Another point the biggest poluters in Ireland are the county councils & thats offical. Look what they did in Galway pouring raw effluent jnto rivers & lakes. Sort your own house minister before you come to mine.

    Reply
    • This is another problem. County Councils which are themselves polluters will not have the moral authority to enforce this.

      Reply
    • True Michael.
      Many villages throughout the country are served by inadequate and badly maintained communal effluent treatment systems that are in a lot of cases discharging untreated effluent to watercourses, streams and rivers.
      The transfer of the authority for the assessment of private effluent disposal arrangements from the HSE to the County Councils will very much be a case of ‘do as I say not as I do’.

      Reply
  • Ah. Big Phil. Well, thankfully he is almost certain to lose his seat next time round so he’s probably content to do what he wants until then for the wee lassie Enda. He’ll get his golden parachute for retirement then.

    Reply
  • This law sets up two inequalities. The rural urban one has been well highlighted, but suffice it to say urban bums can crap away into systems that are themselves sources of pollution, without being criminalised.

    The second inequality is between inspector and householder. An inspector can condemn a system on the basis of an opinion, which is not evidence, and providing counter evidence is not provided as grounds for appeal. This weights the potential interaction heavily in favour of the inspector, who also has carte Blanche to enter properties and dig up soil at their convenience.

    Finally, an inspector may not enter an actual dwelling house without permission, BUT, denying permission is an offence!

    I can’t see this surviving a constitutional challenge, should anyone be able to afford it.

    Reply
    • Hogan is a numpty. Total parish pump politician.

      Reply
    • Auntie
      Most of the provisions of the new arrangements are already at the disposal of the HSE – inspections of domestic sewage disposal arrangements of private dwellings for the protection of public health along with the imposition of demands to upgrade where there are inadequacys.
      These new arrangements seem to me to serve no other purpose than to introduce fees and transfer the entitlement to enforce these provisions to the Local Authorities.

      Reply
    • I agree. I can’t see any relation between this legislation, and the actual problems it purports to solve – ie water pollution.

      Reply
  • We need to keep water safe and clean and we need locally based rural jobs.
    Suggestion: The government/councils employ additional staff to inspect the tanks free of charge. If any faults are found they rectify them FOC so that everyone is starting from a level playing field, then consider negotiating towards a reasonable water charge.

    Reply
    • This is actually a really good suggestion, don’t know why it’s getting the red. Clean water is the aim of the exercise, supposedly, but the current legislation will not achieve it. Whereas, a centralised, concerted effort to apply all the waste water treatment grants drawn down from Europe, to bring the playing pitch to a level, would actually be a workable starting point.

      Reply
  • O’Cuiv takes the biscuit. If his government hadn’t ignored the 2002 EU directive on the monitoring and safety of septic tanks, we wouldn’t have this debacle now. We are now likely to incur penalties if measures aren’t put in place. Yet another FF legacy !!

    Reply
  • Laughable to hear O Cuiv trying to work people into a panic, after the lamentable lack of action taken by FF, when people in Galway couldn’t drink from their taps.

    Interesting to hear the perspective from those with an engineering and architectural background too, in essence there are a lot of “Priory Halls” out there, and the grasping developers responsible should be having porridge as a result of their failings and dishonesty.

    To paraphrase the response to John Gogarty, when he asked if the FFers he was handing over a brown envelope to, would furnish him with a receipt , “Will they fuck!”

    Reply
    • Ardo Ci 14/01/12 #

      ‘Porridge’, you say. Gruel, more like. And the birch to go with it. Ask the new master race, the Chinese, to accommodate them on our behalf so they can exact the punishments without fear or favour.

      Reply
  • Ardo Ci 14/01/12 #

    It’s Hogan who’s frightening the people, not yerman, O’Cuiv, who also has f/a rights to be talking anyway given his party’s abject failure.

    Why is it that the only qualification you have to have to be a politician and thereby ultimately may become a minister of State is to be a good liar. All politicians should be required to undertake yearly lie-detector tests at €50 a time out of their own pocket. What do you think people, good idea, no?

    Reply
  • Incidentally, Dev Og supported this measure over two years ago:

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/440000-must-buy-septic-tank-licence-gormley-1929083.html

    Reply

Add New Comment