And this, ladies and gentlemen, is only the property tax. Let’s not even begin to discuss water charges.

This property tax thing is actually a brilliantly thought out scheme to get the rich people in this country to pay their fair share, because they will be the only ones that will hand over a red cent. In fact the government should increase the rate to 2 or 3%. Now that would generate serious income from the wealthy classes.

I’m sorry Rodrigo but are you actually insane. Revenue are going to collect this Tax so their is no avoiding it. If the average house costs say 150-200k and we apply your very generous 3% value tax. Hey presto, up to €6000 in property tax per year.
So I’m guessing your living in council housing and will be looking for a waiver then.

I didn’t even finish reading the headline and my brain had translated into that sentence! :-D

You bet your bilderberg it is.

… but without the question mark.

No doubt it’ll be 0.4% until the budget 2013 then it’ll go up to 0.6%.

But yeah I thought the same thing when I heard him in the wireless.

Makes no real difference if your not paying it does it?!

Oh I’d say we’ll all be paying unfortunately as with revenue collecting it you could be faced with a situation that everybody is liable and it’s up to you to prove that you don’t own a house!!

It must be remembered that revenue have the sheriff there to deal with evaders and they’ll make sure they get every bit of it plus fees!! Personally I believe it’s the only reason revenue is involved :( it could get nasty….

Una

The Revenue Commissioners will be collecting the property tax. Still want say no?

When is the journal gonna grow some balls and stop sensationalizing bulls**t propaganda pieces. Headline should read” Noonan and IMF pay some advisior 200k to conjure up bulls**t political spin”

Yeah i know, i just sensationlized my own headline, still its closer to the truth.

Kevin
I don’t think the IMF ever float !

Agreed Kevin

People need to vote for SF if the property tax is to abolished. FG will have people paying for their tax breaks to the rich.

Jesus Christ Jackson, would you shut up about SF! We have to get the Knobs that are there, out of Government first!

And what are the alternatives to the knobs? Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail.

Tim I think we’d rather have the property tax

@Paul No, neither of them. We have to work towards getting rid of SF/FG/FF/Labour/Socialists, put them in the History books and that is a positive step forward. New parties,New ideas and a proper Democratically accountable system. A new Constitution and a Second Republic, France has have Five Republics so far!

@

Let your FG loyalists willow in your populace. I wish those of you who paid the charge the very best of luck. You can pay all you like.

Noonan works for the bilderburg group and the bilderburg group runs the IMF

Comment earlier from Mr Sinn Fein Tim threatened violence to get his point across on another post…”smash ur face in” was quoted…Sinn Fein running our country with that attitude….meh…

@ Mick

Wrong. His comment mentioned none of the sort. You misinterpreted it with your soundbite above. But either way, it’s more austerity to please your corrupt government. I would sooner vote for Sinn Fein than Fine Gael any day.

So you do know wat comment it was out of the many that he posts…very suspicious given that you claim he said nothing of the sort…. Wat did I say that was wrong…explain yourself please????

Why would a vote for Sinn Fein be of benefit in this case? They are implementing such taxes in the North for the love of god!

It’s simple spin, evil IMF demand 0.5%. The good and righteous Mr Noonan stands up to them and gets us a great deal at 0.2%. Nation breaths a sigh of relief. Yet we still get screwed. Future tense, tax increases to 0.5% and beyond.

@ Una – Tim has made threats of physical violence many times on this website over the last month. As we’re all online, these threats don’t seem very scary, they just undermine any credibility he has as a community member. You’ve nothing to gain by defending him in this way, it only undermines your own credibility.

No point in responding to Tim Jackson. It’s always the same populist nonsense.
Vote Sinn Fein, they will rid you of those nasty piles.

Ah, yes, vote SF for a . . . . for a . . . sorry, I’ll come back to ye on that.

Eh to all those SF guys please note; Council Tax! Don’t mind paying property tax but I want see what it will cover?

The one thing thats clear as day with this statement, Is that this government thinks we’re all as thick a sh#t , not being able to see their angle by quoting a high figure and pretending to oppose it, as if Noonan would open his mouth without his masters ok. Insulting cur Noonan.

Noonan’s playing the tough boy now for the media. Make no mistake, he’ll have the higher 0.50% rate introduced by next year or year after.
Great play of cards between these 2 clubs, I suppose we’re all sighing with relief now thinking 0.25% isn’t that bad after all…!!
What gullible idiots do they think we are?!

@ Una, no response…no substance!

No system is perfect.

As Enda said in his address to the nation ‘let me say this to you all, you are not responsible for this crisis’. What he failed to say next was ‘but you’re bloody well going to pay for it’

You have beautifully summed up the essence of Enda. If Enda were a sauce, this is what he would he be reduced to: something wet, slimy, and without anything resembling a bone. Apart from that, he’s doing a great job.

Or a thank you note from Goldman Sachs?

No you’ll receive the service that we can afford, which happens to be more with the property tax than without..

@andrew, you mustn’t have got the memo about money growing on trees!

Ryan
The money you pay towards your mortgage isn’t disposable income!

Plaintiffs, stupid predictive text!!

ciaran, well spotted. I meant to type painters !

Exactly :-[

Property/Real Estate Taxes Iceland (taken from http://www.nordisketax.net)

The municipalities collect real estate tax on all real estate, which is a percentage of the building’s and the lot’s real estate evaluation, and that percentage is decided by each municipality. Real estate tax ranges from 0.18% to 0.625%. Along with the real estate tax, other real estate fees are collected, such as the lot lease, garbage collection fee, etc.

In Iceland they pay low PAYE, a council tax, pension tax and property tax ( which add up to less than the 60% I pay every time I get some overtime). These taxes pay for universal health and municipal costs. They do not pay for bond holders lost profits.

Ireland pays PAYE, PRSI, levies and now property and water taxes. These do not pay for universal health, water or municipal services. They pay for lost bond holder profits,and will continue to do so.

Icelands politicians stood up for their people and said no. Ireland’s politicians bent over backwards to say yes.

Interesting Idea.

Snore…silly silly arguments

Clutching. At. Straws.

How come these same legal arguments don’t apply in other jurisdictions?

Ah sure Ryan, aren’t they all wrong except for us… :-)

Mick and Ryan do you have any position? I would love to hear why you think I should pay for your services? I presume neither of you are home owners. Property tax is a legacy from a time when only property owners had a vote.

Maybe Mick you do have a house and are my neighbour. The one who’s never bothered much about their house but had holidays to Spain twice a year. I”ve put my money into my home and therefore into the economy. I’ve converted the garage and changed my windows. People stop to smell my flowers. But now my house is worth 50,000 more than yours so I’m meant to pay more for services than you? How am I a greater burden on society?

Ryan I think if you are a home owner you probably live on the wrong side of the river than me. You are in the exact same house and we have kept the houses in the same repair but your house is worth 100,000 less because of location. Again do I place a greater burden on services? Should I have to pay more than you? Why?

Lads if you have an arguement will you let us know.

Yep, own a nice house in a nice area…as do plenty people across europe…don’t have a prob with the tax…it’s wat other successful countries do so would like to contribute to getting Ireland successful again…

But Mick I’ve taken better care of my house than you have and so mine is worth more. Why should I pay more or be basically fined for having more pride in my home and more kerb appeal. I still don’t think I put more pressure on services than you do.

So, ur advocating a flat tax are you so that a crappy house will be taxed the same as a millionaires house is it?

Ann is a secret Fianna Failer I reckon.

@ Anne, no response, no substance

Could we make it pay per view to get a few bob for the childrens hospital I’d pay happily !!

Paul
The country didn’t vote for Fine Gael in the last election. They voted for a Coalition where the Policies were not agreed in advance. Additionally Property Tax was a part of the Bailout conditions which predates the election. Am I wrong?

Strange that.
I dont recall a box on the ballot paper to be ticked that said Coalition

I still love the aul “Coalition where the Policies were not agreed in advance” bullcrap! There’s an excuse for everything! It wasnt us, it was the previous gubbermint… Its a coalition, all policies off the table,,,
Its not us, its the Troika….. well we must honour previous agreements

Christ on a stick! Bullet Dodgers, that should be the name of this coalition

@Mick Collins with the greatest of restraint I ask you why you think the people voted for a coalition?

I don’t think that many people thought they were voting for a particular government, they were mainly focused on voting FF out of power. What we ended up with was the default alternative.

Values are expected to be based on current values using sale prices of similar properties in the same locale in the last 2 years.

Damocles,
3 houses have been up for sale in my estate for over 3 years. No sales. Prices have dropped.
How are they going to square that circle?

But Ireland isn’t America and we already pay the lions share of tax on PRSI, Stamp Duty, VAT, etc.

Eadster, unfortunately our government are looking to the US to formulate their property tax policies. They have spent 10,000 each for our councillors to attend local area management courses.

Your tax doesn’t seem too high considering what I’ve heard from the States. My friend pays 36,000 dollars a year in Chicago. She doesn’t have an extravagant house but it is in a nice area. It was 34,000 when she bought it last year and with no changes or property price increases it still went up 2,000 dollars. She would like to get air conditioning in her sons’ bedrooms. She would be able to afford it. However no one will do the work untill she has a permit. This will cost 5,000 dollars. As soon as she has the permit the council knows work has been done and can re-assess her property tax. My friend lives in a very nice area hence the high charges but we all have relatives in the US who tell us they can’t improve their homes as they’d be encouraging re assessment. In some states neighbours would actually be angry with them as if too many houses are improved the whole street is re assessed. I know in the states that it is accepted that your income taxes go towards defence (ie funding wars) but since independance our income taxes went towards services.

In the US there is a lot of accountability around this tax:

1. it pays for *local* services (central govt does not get to use it as a bribery fund for votes)

2. the decisions are made by local politicians, elected by the local people – if the local voters don’t like their decisions, the level of taxes or how the money is spent then they don’t last long

A democratic system, not like in Ireland, where it’s more like the fat cat system.

Eadster
What class of a clown are you? The total of your local taxes in the US amount to 7250 dollars a year and you’re posting some sort of value statement on this site against charges in Ireland? On top of this you pay income tax?

Give over. We think we have it bad here, America is worse. One big ponzi scheme. Borrow of Peter to pay back what you already borrowed off Paul only to borrow off Peter again! And if you think the unions are all over the gov here it’s nothing like the ‘bribes’ or donations over there!

Prove it would be the same

Fine Gaels Peter Matthews submitted a PQ in the dail as to how much a 5% income levy on earnings over €120,000 would bring in. The answer from finance was €420 million. Noonan states today that the IMFs .5% measure would bring in 1 Billion, so a .25% property value tax should bring in €500 Million. You then need to deduct from that figure any exemptions/inability to pay cases that will crop up.

that would mean taxing most of the governments buddies wint happen !

*has* *it*. Damn.

Paul Walsh

Very simple. All the parties put out their Manifestos and then we had an Election. Fine Gael didn’t get enough votes to form a Government but they had the largest number of seats………is this answer a bit childish?……….so they negotiated with the Labour Party as the nearest to their political views and then the Manifestos of both were out the window and they agreed instead on a Programme for Government.
This is the basis for stating that the electorate voted for a Coalition which is a statement of fact and that is why those who accuse the Parties of reneging on their Manifestos are simply wrong.

Doesn’t matter one bit. FG like last time will be out next GE. Labour are the new greens. Only a matter of time. And no I don’t care to speculate on who will be next in line as long as FG are out I’m a happy man.

Well under FG and their austerity package which includes paying bondholders lots and lots of red cents that they don’t have to, you can be guaranteed its gonna get worse. Water charges and ever increasing cost of living will push the middle class working poor over the edge. And when it hits rock bottom for family’s nation wide you can all remember the failure of FG to deliver the promise of “not another red cent”……….!

Out of cold dead hands! B#%*ards…

F-ing right paurice!

why do people earning over 100k win? they will pay the same taxes etc introduced in this budget as you- how exactly is that winning?

It will be taken from our wages as part of Paye so no choice

Maria,

Not for those who work cash-in-hand.

Those who work cash-in-hand are tax dodgers and are effectively stealing from taxpayers, ie, us. Thinking that tax evasion is acceptable is exactly the type of morally-flexible thinking that bankrupted this country.

Kevin
I genuinely want to know why someone on 100 grand gains or wins in this situation. What’s the answer?

At a guess John, i’d say Una was referring to self emlpoyed who make their own tax returns i.e. taxi drivers, shop owners etc

Because in my opionion, and i stress opinion, because other people can choose to think differently, its a free world. I think that people over 100k a year have the means to absorb more tax hikes. Now all i know is I see ALOT of unaffected people in new 2012 BMWs and new Audis. Now i obviously dont know peoples exact financial situation, this is based on my sights out an about. An extra 1,000 isnt much at all for someone on 100k. An extra 1000 for somebody on 25k is alot. Its common sense. Now i know there is alot of other things to be taken into consideration. Im just putting it in very simple terms

@ Joseph – Fair enough then. I assumed that “cash-in-hand” was a euphemism for “under the table”. No-one likes paying tax, and there are many good reasons to reform the tax system to be fair, transparent and to make sure the money goes where it’s needed. But simply refusing to pay tax is not a noble political stance, no matter which way it’s spinned. even if the banking debt vanished overnight, there’s still a need for any Irish government to maximise tax revenue. Any politician or supporter who denies this is either lying or confused.

Kevin Hunt nnI see where you are coming from but there are many flaws with that arguement- I could easily argue that the guy on 100k was more likely to have been able to borrow ridiculous sums of money in the boom- meaning he has less disposible income than the guy on 25k due to repayments etc- but its hardly the guy on 25k’s problem is it? Also what happened to equality? Surely the everyone has the same right to earn money ? Why penalise people for earning more? But its a recession so lets try and help everyone by sharing the burden- Fair enough… nnThe guy on 100k takes about 45k home after all income taxes/levies- how much tax does someone on 25k pay ? Not alot..nnIm not someone earning 25k or 100k- I am still a student and dont work yet- My ambition is to be very successful and to earn well in excess of 100k a year- I can just as easily do that in London if the Government decides to penalise people for being successful here…

I think a Unin is a shortened down version of Useless Noonan, no?

Sorry Marie, i got that slightly wrong.
A Unin is a measurement of stupidity. Its full name is a Useless Noonan.
So for example if you wanted to rate Enda Kenny
you could say I’d give him a score of 5 Unins etc
With me?

The ordinary people would be kept in their place by Sinn Féin alright. Especially if their representative Tim Jackson is anything to go by.

I don’t think that the majority of voters are scared of SF, and I don’t think that the majority would necessarily be against a government in which SF were a part, but I do think that SF need to convince the electorate that they’re up to the job. Distancing themselves from their more looney and abusive supporters would be a good step. Not klumpig in every possible chance to grandstand would be another. There may be a decent party in there somewhere, but they need to cut away the deadwood and the poisoned branches, and to generally stop acting like a hard-line minority party.

Marie, people are not scared of sinn fein. Most of the time they disagree with their extreme marxist ideology, and understand that there is a lot of populist rhetoric to try and achieve power, but not fear. The reason why most people still find Sinn Fein unpalatable is because they have experienced the horrors that sinn fein have visited of people of Ireland, and the individuals involved have not gone away. Every time a respectable sinn fein politician like Pearce Doherty comes along, right behind him will be the terror of the past in Adams, McGuinness and Ferris. People who have no problem organising maiming when it suited them, and anyone who has grown up with Sinn Fein councillors nearby knew the devastation that led to. It is disheartening to see potential feasible opposition being tarnished by these monsters.

As soon as sinn Fein becomes democratic, and replace the bogeymen from the positions of power in the party, then they have a chance of being accepted by more than the Border counties and impoverished areas, but until then understand that it is not fear, it’s weariness. And like Tim’s responses, unless you know that these don’t work, then don’t try to understand why people cannot allow SF Into arguments, never mind power.

Union Jack???

No Gis it is not a Union Jack.

what is it exactly Patrick or what does it represent ? I mean I know its basically a union jack with the harp on it and the cross of saint Patrick removed but is it related to something?

It is the Flag of the Commonwealth of Britain and Ireland from 1653–1659.

After the parliamentarians were victorious in the English Civil War and Charles I was executed, Oliver Cromwell became Lord Protector. A genocidal maniac who thought he was on a mission from God ravaged Ireland and became de facto dictator of Britain.

I would rank this flag as offensive to Ireland as a Nazi Swastika to Jews. Obviously Patrick chose this flag as a means of showing support to Cromwell and a big F you to Irish natives.

@Bilbo. I think it is the Lord Protector flag from Cromwells era when the UK did not have a King and it replaced the Union Jack on the UK Naval Fleet of the time. It looks like it but I am sure Patrick can confirm of deny it. Some UK Republicans use it as (as in UK citizens who want to see the monarchy removed and want the UK to become a Republic)

Don’t think you might hurt your self!

With respect, Caroline, the majority of the Irish public haven’t said NO, at least not publicly and definitively.