They’re so brazen not, stealth won’t even come into it. It’ll be a pay up or else.

Coz he couldn’t give a toss, that’s why.

Here Here,Also while were at it,
Dear Minster Noonan
Was there pressure from a secret group at some meeting called the Bilderberg Group to keep paying unsecured bondholders or were yeas talking about GAA ?

Do you actually think they really want to pay it?? If we dont pay it then we don’s get money to keep our social welfare, education, health and other services going… We dont take in enough money through taxation so we either take it from EU/IMF and live by their rules or we p**s off and cut everything… Thats the crux of it folks…

That’s tough Brian. I feel your pain bro.

Thanks dextor our day will come……hopefully!

Brian,

You obviously haven’t heard of Cash-In-Hand work? It’s like working off the books – *Hint

Stephen, FFg/Labour are just carrying FFs stupidity on how to run an economy. Yes, FF screwed it up, but FFg/Labour have just made a bad situation even worse :(

And FG/LAB will be out next GE!!

Exactly!! Any company that makes a loss doesn’t get money to prop it up except banks!! If I made a bet on a horse and lost can i make other punters pay??

That is because you don’t realise the implications of defaulting on our bank debt. It’s very easy to say “burn the bond holders” but what does that mean exactly? The important thing is we don’t let this situation arise again. We have to pay the debt. Hardly a comparison Brian in fairness.

Bondholders took a gamble but they win no matter!? We don’t no until we no all the facts u can’t really say it’s good or bad to pay! Banks can’t fail but any other business can hardly fair is it?

Won’t see that in my lifetime!! Min wage for them esp Leo who keeps talking bull

Good one again Brian have to say your on fire with this story. Minimum wage for our politicians, great idea! We will really attract the best and brightest into public office. Your bitterness and self of entitlement is phenomenal!

Why not david they there just for the money so!? I think if they want to do something for there country it shud not matter what’s in the paycheck!! And brightest when have they ever been there?? If they were there they sure are not there now!

Well said EJ.

The moratorium in the public sector is having a huge effect on the current staff. They have taken their fair share of the pain. Our welfare system needs to be adjusted in line with the rest of Europe. When an individual/family receive more money from welfare than an actual job there is something seriously wrong with that situation. Where is the incentive to go back to work?

Not until the cost of living is also adjusted, that includes addressing upward only rent and rates. All well and good to cut SW but those on it are struggling at the moment and to cut it further is negligent to them when the price of everything remains as high as it is. Its ridiculous, Rip off Ireland is still very much here for day to day living expenses and household bills have all jumped up considerable in the last 3 years not helping the situation.

Kildare the only argument i need to make is that the English make up the single largest nationals on welfare in Ireland. Do you think we should stop the welfare payments to the English? What do you think will happen to the irish in England if that happens.
You are arguing about the symptom rather than the cause of the people on the Dole in Ireland. If we fix this economy, then people will come off the Dole. The Celtic Tiger proved that, when we had 3% unemployment.

I somehow think Kildare that the cost of living might be a little bit higher here than in Poland!

Why *should* they leave? The vast majority have worked here and built up entitlements.

Your dead right there was a new school built in Kildare and not one local was on it all from NI and eastern Europe
These guys can afford to work for peanuts

Still waiting for the facts in this discussion. All you’ve done is provided a story. As in “cool story Bro”. How do you know they’re collecting dole? If you have have any evidence of this then what have you done about it?

exactly, i’ve been saying that all along. granted, prsi stamps covers you for what? 52 weeks max claiming job seekers benefit? after that – cut, find work here or go home. you won’t get it in other EU states i can guarantee you that, you’d have to come home here to Mama, which is why they’re not going home to Mama, too cushy here. 90,000 non nationals on the dole here is quite high. “Oh my, come to Ireland, come, you get this, and that, and this and other”

I’m not sure why those commitments weren’t questioned by economists last year! It’s always been painfully obvious that by taking billions out of the economy for the foreseeable future that income tax hikes and welfare cuts were inevitable! The so called ESRI report from a couple of weeks ago, stating that a high percentage of workers would be better off on welfare was just the beginning of the softening up process! Unfortunately this Government don’t have any compassion for the less well off, and ultimately they are the ones who’ll take the most pain! I can’t honestly see the poor people tolerating much more!

That is a disgraceful comment, and is IMO bordering on racist. Ireland opened its doors to the non-nationals when times were good. They are here for good, get over it.

The problem with the state of the economy right now is that FFg/Laboujr are continuing exactly the same policies of their predcessors from 2007 onwards.
For some reasons the morons believe that the more you cut spending, and the more you increase taxes, the better off the economy will be.
This is just so plain stupid, and almost every economist around the world is saying the same thing.
China/USA/Russia/Brazil/India outside of the Euro Zone, as well as France to name but a few are demanding that all the Eurozone economies start spending money to grow their economies.
But FFg/Labour being who they are, don’t understand basic economics. They are only interested in being seen as good litrle boys in front of Merkel, and trying to get to the pension line in 3 years.
They are literally destroying our economy.
All the recent economic reports are saying that unemployment is still increasing, our exports are decreasing, emmigration is out of control …. All the while Kenny and Gilmore are paying themselves remuneration packages worth over 500,000 euro per year.
They are at best ignorant, and at worst traitors and financial terrorists.

@ Cal1: Welcome, we’ve been expecting you. Opening doors has nothing got to do with disallowing payments after ones prsi stamps have been used up. So Italy, Portugal, Hungary are racist too? These are countries i’ve been to and you will not get the same welfare rules there. In fact, each and every EU state seems to employ different rules regarding welfare. This old racist card crap is for the bin. We’re talking about money, welfare, rules and regulations here. I think you’re in the wrong news section.

Good idea. Send all the Irish on the dole in England back here too.

@ Cal1 Mooney , What an idiotic comment! Please direct me as to where the race of these non-nationals was mentioned? Welfare should only be paid to non-nationals if they have previously paid tax and then for a limited period only! There are people in Ireland who worked for 20+ years and due to the fact that they were self employed, they receive zero benefits. On the other hand there are people who have arrived on these shores, may never have worked a day here and receive full benefit entitlement, this is a disgrace and should never have happened, by the way I blame the system and not the people and their race is irrelevant as far as I’m concerned!

The rules are that you can’t have different social welfare rules for Nationals and other EU citizens.

That is a fact.

John,

This is typical of FFg/Labour efforts to distract attention away from the real issue.
Less than 12% of the people on the dole are non-Irish, and the English make up the largest number of Non-Nationals on the Dole. So if you are suggesting, for the good of our economy, to send all the English home, i think that you will find the back-lash from our closest neighbors extremely counter-productive.

The real issue is that our economy is at best, stagnant. Growing the economy is the responsibility of the FFg/Labour Government.

FF/Labour are paying over 1,100,000,000 (1.1 billion) euro today to UNSECURED bondholders. This is where the problem lies. Over 17% of all tax this year will be used to service unsecured bond-holders in the banks.

This is where the problem lies. It doesnt not lie with some English people who came over here to work for years, lost their jobs because of the ineptitude and corruption of successive Governments in Ireland.

Apologies, the figure is 17% Non Nationals ….
The English are the largest non National diaspora in Ireland, and account for the largest non-national community on the Dole in Ireland.
If you even think for one second about sending them home, then we will automatically have all the Irish on welfare in England sent back to us.

Dont be so stupid and short sighted in these arguments.

Actually the Polish are the largest non-national diaspora in Ireland.

http://www.thejournal.ie/polish-families-reuniting-in-ireland-as-they-become-largest-non-irish-group-400769-Mar2012/

And yes, any Irish claiming dole in England long term should be sent home and vice-versa!

John,

Here is the CSO link.
I appreciate the Journal is a good source, but the CSO figures are hard to argue with. Read the whole report.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/labourmarket/current/ppsn.pdf

My comments are regarding largest non-irish group which links to data CSO published from the 2011 census, the document you linked is irrelevant to the point I was making and besides it’s based on data recorded between 2005-2009

Dear John:

Here is the link to the Q1 2012 CSO figures…

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/latestheadlinefigures/qnhs_q12012.pdf

Go to annex 1
It details the following statistics:
Total Employment stats
Irish 64.4%
Non-Irish (10.8%) of which British Nationals make up 1.6%, and the remainder 9.2% are non-Irish or British
I never once said that there are more British in Ireland than Polish. I said that the British make up the largest % of unemployed from a Non-Irish point of view
Your link backs up my argument. Even though the Polish are the largest diaspora, they are not the largest % of non-Irish folks on the Dole. Thanks for supporting my argument. It makes it a little easier.

You can extrapolate the numbers yourself.

Are you really arguing that the English should ship the 160,000 Irish on the Dole in England back over here? Really? I thought FFg wanted all the unemployed Irish to leave Ireland.

If non-nationals couldn’t claim SW then non-nationals couldn’t work..I guarantee that the number working far outnumbers (and pays for) the number not working.

I never once said that there are more British in Ireland than Polish

From your earlier comment:

The English are the largest non National diaspora in Ireland

This is the point I was correcting, Im not interested interested in the nationality of the non-irish claiming benefits here. The point I was making is that non-nationals should only recieve benefits if they have previous tax contributions and then for a limited period only! My view also extends to any Irish claiming benefits overseas without contributing to their host countries, There should be nothing for nothing in this world!

John,

You cannot claim welfare in this country, unless you have 2 years of PRSI contributions.
That is why so many self-employed business owners are screwed. If their business fails, they are entitled to nothing.

try being over 40 mate and jobless…..we live in a youth obscessed society where most of the back to work schemes are designed for young people….I have chosen to work for myself as its the only option for a man over 40 in Ireland….

Fair play to you Marc.

Best of luck Marc

Go into any pvt hospital in this country and/ or talk to the junior doctors and nurses working in pvt hospitals and u will see why our insurance premiums are so high.

Or maybe 30% in America if you do the calculation correctly.

Don’t forget that Irish people have to pay large mortgages. A lot of the money from those mortgages went straight into Government coffers through all their unsustainable once-off property related taxes, but we’re still paying the mortgages. I think you’ll find that Irish are actually taxed to the hilt if you look at all the tax money we fork out in a lifetime.

@ censored

Having a mortage is not a panacea for decision making. The government cannot ignore rich people earning more than €60,000 a year either. The Euro-zone average salary is €22,000 – €33,000. In Ireland, a “basic” salary is regarded as €40,000. This has encouraged moral hazard, loss of competitiveness and higher inflation. The Irish elected a Fine Gael government that gave tax breaks. Ireland gives tax benefits. Because Ireland thought, it would be a big business. In the end, the people voted yes to a fiscal treaty, than a small island economy could stomach. That was selfish thinking and now they have to pay the price.

U cheeky f**k there’s plenty of ppl on job benefits that want to work and have worked all there lives since they left school!! I’d love to have full time work but it can’t b got now I’ve tried! I don’t like getting job benefit all but I need food u think I shud live on nothin?? I hope ur job never goes and hope u never end up the way I am now

How dare you call people on welfare parasites these people lost their jobs through no fault of their own and many have young families
If you like Germany so much why don’t you go back there,when the euro collapses there day will come too

That’s strange, I thought Norway were’nt in the EU…………..

Well said Lukasz you are right…

Lukasz is talking about the longterm unemployable the ones that make it a lifestyle choice Not the ones that have recently lost their jobs…

@brian gallagher. Yes there are plenty of people who want to work that are on welfare, but there are certainly plenty of others who don’t.

So punish every1!? I no there are ppl on it that don’t deserve it and shud b stopped but what about ppl who have worked! I never got anything out of the Celtic tiger except what I’m getting now! I worked but times now are dead so what do I do?? Starve? Cos I won’t get anything

Social welfare is supposed to be a safety net, not a long term option. I agree with Lukasz for the simple reason that we can’t afford it. Fairness doesn’t come into it. Sorry.