If you ask the clergy of the RCC or those abused by some of them, no sex is not necessarily safer & lack of physical contact can lead to more problems than it solves.

That’s like saying ‘The best way to Ski safely is: Don’t Ski’

The difference is that people who decide to ski use as much protection as they can

Easier said than done really – When you have Influential people like Jacob Zuma (The president of South Africa) coming out saying that after having sex with a woman who had HIV that he took precautions by having a shower afterwards !

He shouldnt really be the president then should he?

James, it’s a problem in this country as well and goodness knows there are plenty of unfaithful partners putting it about.

@murial: care to provide evidence for your sweeping statement there?

In parts of Africa it is commonly believed that a man can cure himself of AIDS by having sex with a virgin, – this has resulted in a ludicrous number of small children with AIDS.
I know this because a friend was nun in charge of one of the camps, She quit, after years of futile effort, totally disillusioned at the pervasive animalistic depravity.

Glen, dating sites, especially the free ones, are crawling with cheaters. Pubs and bars too.

Glen…. It’s advisable not to argue with an obviously scorned woman. Hell hath no fury!

Any chance you might back up your argument with properly researched statistics, rather than just pluck them out of thin air? The church has acted scandalously by teaching people that contraception is ‘bad’. But I wouldn’t expect you to understand that, given the way you defend it at all costs. Shameful stuff.

I think even if you did not mention the church in your comment I would still disagree. I would like to see where these figures you got came from, try sound a little far fetched to me. We can preach all we want about fidelity but some people will still cheat. So protecting themselves should be as important.

Brian you arrogantly shot a man down for not backing his posting up with facts and then you continue to repeat his highlighted failings.

He has a habit of coming on here and ‘preaching’, telling us that the Catholic Church is above reproach, never admitting its many failings and expecting the rest of us to bow before his superior knowledge. He’s the arrogant one.

He’s the type that will defend the church till death, can’t wait to see what his defence is when the magdalene report comes out

@ Brian
Hey Brian, how about a little “that’s great news for Africa, perhaps we can better target our aids support”. Most points i make would be from research I’ve read, rarely seen you quote research for the sweeping statements you make.
@ Graham Bingham
Good post Graham, I probably shouldn’t have mentioned the church, but they supply a significant support to those with aids in Africa. Which figure do you want info on? I agree many will continue to cheat as you put it, but there is still great scope for improving the situation by letting people know that fidelity is good for ones health and ones family. The “risk compensation” factor with contraceptives, lead many to feel that continuing in multiple relationships is ok, and the west has promoted its own moral outlook in this respect to Africa. Probably easier to promote contraception, than to take time, sit down, and educate.

Brian, the usual flawed argument, indeed the Catholic Church do not promote the use of condoms but they also do not agree with people sleeping around, so if those involved are to listen to the Church about contraception they should also follow their guidance on fidelity. By the way I’m not pro-church I’m just anti-ignorance……….

Paddy, then if the church “give significant support”, the’ve given that with one hand while taking with the other in having been against the use of condoms for any reason (even as a prevention of Aids spread) until very recently.

@ Brian
I wonder what it is that makes my opinion “preaching”, and your comments “reasoned dialogue”. Sir, sir, sir I know, one is from me and the other is from you? You might consider it strange for me to say so Brian, but do try to keep an open mind. You do have your own religion that you regularly preach!
@ Conor Black
It is true I love the church, many thousands of years of experience and wisdom, outlived many of the empires and -isms’ of the centuries, driven by a view of humanity that says we are precious. Lived in by humans full of faults, but the core messages appear to survive despite the faults of individuals. When the magdalen report is issued, I have no doubt many individuals will be proved as brutal, and abusive. Society at large always had, and always will have brutal individuals, and the church like all other institutions has had its fair share. So what’s your point. My defence is, there is no defence for brutality, but it is not unique to the church.

@Paddy – It doesn’t take much research to know that condoms (dirty word, I know) help prevent the transmission of STDs, including HIV/AIDS. Yet the Catholic Church just goes completely against this, despite the fact that it saves lives.
It’s all very well trying to preach about being faithful to one partner but there is an actual real world out there where people don’t practise monogamy and where they do have multiple partners. And you don’t even have to travel to Africa to see it, there’s plenty of it going on in Ireland too.

@ Brian
You should look up “risk compensation”, Brian. I agree, infidelity is widespread, but not as common here as in Africa. The 20 something’s are of course at high risk as they have swallowed the lie of contraception, (no consequences, no harm, morally neutral), multiple trial marriages are de rogueur, and STDs are at epidemic levels. Contraceptives don’t save lives, rather they increase the risks by supporting risky behaviour. I know you find it necessary to believe the opposite, because, God forbid, believing contraception is bad for society, would require a re-evaluation of everything modern man stands for!

How about the pope telling the mostly christian sub-saharan African believers that using condoms consistently and correctly reduces risk but does have a failure rate and is not a reason to not consider that there is still danger.

You know – as opposed to him telling catholics that condoms are a bad thing and continuously treating people as idiots?

@ Tomy Iona
So you want the Pope to promote contraceptives, placing people in danger of aids, supporting the failing policies of the west, not to mention what the pope considers the most valuable dimension of humanity, our life after death? I’m afraid thats not possible. The figure I mentioned above about abortions is for America only, where 54% of abortions were on women who were using contraceptives at the time they became pregnant. You may need to believe that contraceptives don’t fail; if I do it correctly, nothing will go wrong, grow up! Contraceptives fail regularly. Furthermore, you ignore the fact that having made up your mind that you will accept sexual favours when they come your way, keeping the condom on the ready; passion often overcomes reason, and alcohol often overwrites technique. So again an attitude of fidelity seems to serve best, even inebriation tends to submit to it.
I have no intention of promoting contraceptives, it leads to multiple trial “marriages”, which lead to an inability to commit to real marriage fully, when it eventually comes around.

This is getting very petty, lads.

Just to live by some ridiculous doctrine the church is actively sabotaging a proven preventative measure in a continent riddled with this disease!! Nobody is saying abstinence is not one way of preventing it, the point is you are saying its the only way and that contraception is not an option at all !! Again people’s lives are put at risk all for ridiculous religious beliefs based on zero logic or evidence . . Oh wait that seems to be a familiar theme!!

I don’t want the pope to promote anything.

I don’t want for him to tell people that they’ll burn in hell for using condoms though

@ Nivek8614
You are welcome to your view on doctrine, however, with respect to proven facts, it has been shown that the pushing of contraceptives, a western policy often made conditional on aid, on Africans, has not helped in reducing aids, and that’s not just a Christian view.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/27/AR2009032702825.html

You constantly stick to “contraceptives” – obviously latching onto a specific view. Promotion of contraceptives by the west may not fit your agenda but contraception overall is not about preventing aids/hiv. It’s generally a public health issue where truth is not something that is compatible with the church.

The article you posted does not say that condoms don’t work. It says that there are other issues which can be addressed (polygamy) that can make a significant difference much sooner than education around the correct and consistent use of condoms.

@ Tomy Iona
Big statements Tomy. I don’t really have an agenda, I believe contraceptives have been disastrous for society at large, and relationships in particular. Couples now rush into relationships with each other, whereas, in previous generations they would have got to know each other before they became sexually involved. The result of this is many women end up committed to relationships, whereas in previous times they would have discovered their incompatibility before the sexual commitment. This leads to more broken marriages, and contraception is the enabling agent.
The big statement you made is that truth and the church are incompatible. There are two things the church is very good at, Truth and Beauty. But in today’s relativistic society, truth is what I make up myself, I wish you well with that.

There are two things the church is very good at, Truth and Beauty

Not even going to get dragged into this. Not sure if troll or just delusional.

As for the rest of it – I think you need to check some history – it appears you’d be more in favour of the Magdelene laundries still being open and women to not have a vote either….

@ Tomy Iona
Well Tomy if you can’t debate, well and good, but it was you who stated the church has no understanding of truth.
I know my history pretty well, I commented on the Magdelene situation earlier.
The trick with progress is to have the wisdom, moral compass, ethics, common sense, and decrement to pick what is good and reject what is harmful. Society does bad in this respect today, partly because it believes it contains all wisdom, and has nothing to learn from past generations.

I’m capable of debating – I just don’t have the energy – and here’s why:

http://livingwithmormons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/arguing-with-religious-fanatics-like-playing-chess-with-a-pigeon.jpg

Ugh again your one sided argument is typical !! I’m not saying abstinence is not part of the solution, I’m just saying its not the only solution! All because of your religious beliefs you would be willing to put millions of people’s lives at risk! It’s actually outstanding and defies any kind of logic !! Also we can all quote articles to back up our points – http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/11/bad-science-pope-anti-condom

@ Nivek8614
Why be aghast, are we not all only capable of giving one side in an argument.
It is because of both faith and reason that I give the points I propose. Sure there is an element of trust on my part in the maker of the world. I have a larger view of life.
To me the sexual side of life is the music in the ongoing drama of this life. Without an understanding of the role of sexual intimacy, one never gets to play in the orchestra, and our sexual experiences are purely selfish and never really love, just lust.
Sexual intimacy which deliberately blocks the possibility of new life says, I love you, but not just that much! This is a human truth, not an exclusive to any, or no, church.
The spirit of the age, has reduced sex to yet another bodily function. We have the science, so to hell with the consequences. Reason alone should allow us deduce that this is a flawed position for humanity as a whole, and for self propagation, our instinct to pass on our genes. Today’s abuse of science to thwart nature, can only lead to grief for humanity. Yet humans have a great capacity for blindness to consequence. Perhaps it will be another two generations before civilisation will say, what the hell were we thinking!
But in the meantime, we continue to wonder, why the widespread dissatisfaction with life, why the shallowness, why am I not happy, and where are the children?
Contraception? Lets try reasoning with the brains between our ears, rather than the brains located elsewhere.

So, the problem with people dying is caused by them being born. Well, I suppose we’re all terminally ill in some way or another.

AIDS originated in Africa, in Southern Camaroon. The vast majority of cases on the planet, are, – just like article says;- ‘ in sub-Saharan Africa ‘ – 25 million+ infected.
is there a problem…??
Should they not have mentioned ‘Africa ‘…??
Did they hurt your feelings…??
Boo hoo……..

OK @”my anarchic trek”, try reading my article again a bit slowly this time, I did not say anything about ‘AIDS not being in Africa’ nor ‘Africa should not be mentioned’ on the contrary I actually acknowledged that Africa has the highest cases, however ‘Infidelity and indeed AIDS is a WORLD issue’ furthermore I suggested that maybe people should probably focus on effective solutions (which is exactly the opposite of what you could muster in your response). Give it another go, try to come up with a couple of solutions for the WORLDWIDE AIDS and INFIDELITY issues???? Take your time.
As for my feelings, they are just as they were thanks for asking anyway. Solutions solutions solutions.

I read the article quite thoroughly my boy, I was merely amused by the fact that a black guy took offence to the finger being pointed at Africa, simply because the truth hurts;- some black guy in the Cameroons screwed a monkey & brought AIDS back home, as a little present to his family, wife, & ‘friends’ oh, & the ‘WOLRD’