What stage is Israel at?

The 200+ nukes, most of them probably pointing at Iran, stage.

Maybe Iran should concentrate on fixing their own country & less on supporting extremists in Syria, Lebanon & PA. Israel has every reason to be worried about these nutjobs & is right to be ready to take action because The UN won’t be much help when Iran has these weapons. But let’s criticise the country that is democratic, allows freedom of worship, doesn’t hang homosexuals & allows women to be equal in some misguided idea that this will help the Palestinian people held hostage by the cowards & bigots in Hizbollah.

They may not hang homosexuals but they drop white phosphorous on women and children in Gaza.

That bomb doesnt seem very dangerous

@werejammin I know a a great way to make Israel stop any attacks in Gaza; ask Hamas to stop launching rockets into south Israel, and Israel will have no reason to retaliate.

@Strongbow62 Ten years ago Israel was at the stage where Iran would like to be in the coming years. Why? What is your concern?

@strongbow

Imbecile stage..if thats not too generous.

@Damien Flinter, “Imbecile stage”? The Intel microchip in your computer, with which you have opted to post your ignorant message was created in Israel.

Mine is AMD. And intel processors are made in many countries including Ireland.

@Michelle..some of my favourite writers are Jewish geniuses. If the Jewish/Israeli leadership were among their readership they might have a tittle of wit.

The rusty microchip in my ancient phone has a better grip on reality than you do.

@ Damien Flinter, Wow! You get brownie points for reading literature written by “Jewish geniuses”. And that is supposed to prove what exactly? Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? Surly not!

It will prove nothing to a propagandist like you Michelle.
Simply pointing to the irrelevance of your equating the processing power of your guess at what microchip runs my hardware and the idiocy of Bibi and his minnions.

Shalom.

Correction

In my haste I omitted the nuclear qualifier.

Nuclear idiocy..they’re shrewd and clever as the average hominid…but cleverness can handicap intelligence if its not qualified by a healthy lacing of self-doubt.

Michelle provides a fine example in her blinkered certitude.

Damien Flinter, For your information, I think Netanyahu is a useless idiot, and I am embarrassed to have him represent my country. Other than longwinded speeches, he has done absolutely nothing to improve any situation. By the way, you have a lot in common with Netanyahu. Your speeches are as longwinded as his—a lot of poetic effort with little effect. I hope this clears things up a bit for you. Now what propaganda are you referring to?

@ Shanti Om, Thank you for pointing out that I have chip on my shoulder. I wonder where it came from? Perhaps you would like to condemn me for that too.

When did George Bush—perhaps both of them—appoint you as their spokesperson? Have they instructed you to describe them as Christian Zionists? I wonder why they never made that declaration themselves? I guess they must have been waiting for you to declare it for them.

What does Jesus have to do with all this?

I think you need to spend a lot more time at the ashram in order to ease out all that packaged mental poppycock of yours, and put it to better use, like compost.

Ta, Michelle..your inane comments and personalisation of a serious issue do more to expose the boneheaded bigotry Palestinian people have to face daily than my efforts ever could.

I believe its called ‘blowback’, in the war-head jargon. a.k.a. ‘overkill’.

Yawn!

STOP PRESS
Troll Yawns in Desperation.

I saw that yesterday. It’s as nuts as Bibi Nutty-Yahoo. Advocating another USS Liberty, it just shows how powerful AIPAC is in the USA.

That’s just plain scary: so if Iran isn’t looking for war, they should be provoked into one?
These people need serious help…

So the status quo as usual

Ha! It is and all.

@Sean

Ha ha so true!

It’s pretty sad how truth is superseded by hatred. If you all would do your homework, instead of listening to Faux News and the like, you would know that Israel did not steal one millimeter of land. However, you hate the Jews and think everything you see in the media is gospel.

I don’t hate Jews, Zionists i hate, there is a difference u know and i’m pretty sure most Jewish people would agree.

@Abe, I am pretty sure that the indigenous population of Jaffa, Haifa etc in 1948 may disagree with that. Israel occupy and build settlements (illegal under international law) in Palestine right now. Are you mad??!

@Abe.
Funny how anyone who dares disagree with Israel is anti-Semitic! Some of the most outspoken commentators against Israel’s crimes in Palestine are Jewish. I reckon you’re the one who could benefit from a little research.

The Jews have robbed no land, it was theirs to begin with and much of it was bought legit from Palestinians by Jewish people returning to their land, The Palestinians are from Egypt, Jordan, Syria ect not the little strip of land call Israel, it was mostly desert when the Jews came back (although there has always been a Jewish presents in the land, look it up) and they worked the land and made the desert bloom, it was then, when the arabs seen what the Jews were able to do with the land that they wanted it, The Jews are quite willing to live in peace with the Palestinians and their arab neighbours but they, the arabs are not willing, they want to blow Israel off the map and they won’t stop there. Arabs who live in Israel have the same rights as Jews, don’t live in poverty, have religious freedom and can be members of the government, show me an arab nation who will allow that for Jews or Christians, in Saudi Arabia there isnt even a Christian Church. Please look up your history books before accusing the Jews of robbing land that belonged to them anyway.

Sorry Paul, but the bible doesn’t count as history. It might pass as literature and folktales..or ancient Judaic propaganda(now resurrected as hasbara).

Try Shlomo Sand’s ‘Invention of the Jewish People’,(originally written in Hebrew)published in 2009 in English by Verso, for an insiders breakdown of the Zionist delusions. I believe he still lectures in history in Tel Aviv.

What land are you talking about? There was never an independent country called Palestine. The people who gave you a thumbs up about your comment are as historically ignorant as you are.

Sorry Michelle…but you own particular brand of indoctrination has not quite gone global pandemic just yet…despite the hasbara efforts.

Maybe Israel shouldn’t have cloned our passports..not the way to win friends is it?

@Damien Flinter, Hasbar means “explanation” in Hebrew. I do not explain, but rather post facts. You simply need to pick up history book about the British Mandate and The Ottoman Empire prior to the recreation of Israel.

And as for cloned passports; many countries have done that, including the US, UK and Australia. What is your point?

@Michelle
Hasbara is the official propaganda(including its handbook)on how to manipulate media and argument. All Israeli students on campuses worldwide are instructed in its use.

Where Goebbels merely applied Teutonic rigour and method to propaganda dissemanation, Israel has applied paranoid persecution-complex terror to refining its system.

That you give such a trite answer, given your obvious facility with the methods, gives its own clues.
Any readers who are puzzled by the term have only to search it. Its not classified.

Spot on.

People really should research the Rothchilds.

Outstanding Jackie. Respect.

Jackie. Very interesting . Where did you source this please ? What about China and Japan ? Thanks

Absolutely disgraceful anti-Semitism on here. Yes maybe people should research the Rothschilds, then they might come accross this:
“During the Great Famine (1845–1852), in which approximately 1 million Irish people died, many Jews helped to organize and gave generously towards Famine relief[citation needed] . A Dublin newspaper, commenting in 1850, pointed out that Baron Lionel de Rothschild and his family had,
…contributed during the Irish famine of 1847 … a sum far beyond the joint contributions of the Devonshires, and Herefords, Lansdownes, Fitzwilliams and Herberts, who annually drew so many times that amount from their Irish estates”[

[edit]Conspiracy theories

Over more than two centuries,[17][18] the Rothschild family has frequently been the subject of conspiracy theories.[62][63][64] These theories take differing forms, such as claiming that the family controls the world’s wealth and financial institutions,[65][66] or encouraged or discouraged wars between governments. Discussing this and similar views, the historian Niall Ferguson wrote, “As we have seen, however, wars tended to hit the price of existing bonds by increasing the risk that a debtor state would fail to meet its interest payments in the event of defeat and losses of territory. By the middle of the 19th century, the Rothschilds had evolved from traders into fund managers, carefully tending to their own vast portfolio of government bonds. Now having made their money, they stood to lose more than they gained from conflict. The Rothschilds had decided the outcome of the Napoleonic Wars by putting their financial weight behind Britain. Now they would sit on the sidelines.”[67]

Jackie, your simply not telling the truth. Btw fidel castros wealth was estimated to be $8 billion dollars!

Declan..’..the Rotschilds had decided the outcome of the Napoleonic wars..’.

Indeed they had..as they had decided outcomes for quite a while by funding all sides in European wars(starting by financing the Duke of Hesse’s efforts) to establish their banking hegemony since they first hung their red shield(hence their name)in Frankfurt.

I think it was Nathan scooped the London market by spooking a stampede sell with a bluff of unloading his own stocks(at excellent prices) after Waterloo while the ‘players’ waited to hear the outcome…then capitalising on the panic that followed by simply buying the house as the market unloaded to ground-zero rock-bottom; he had his own private trans-channel signal system which ensured he knew Wellington had won. They remain major digits on the ‘invisible hand of the market’. Winning and accumulating on all stages of the cycles.

Judging by the thumbs..somebody doesn’t want them Rotschilds researched.

must be the media hasbara watchdogs…Rotsweilers??

It is I, Baron Rothschild and my army of Rothschild minions. Hehe.

True, but Iran have made it clear they want to wipe Israel from the map. Now that’s either some excellent precision bombing or a nuke, or nukes, on the region. Just because the Jews see the holocaust as a ticket to threaten the Arab world, doesn’t mean it’s ok to nuke them.

They (as in Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollah) didn’t say ‘wipe Israel from the map’. That was a translation mistake. He said the Zionist regime must vanish from the arena of time. Well known fact, just google it.

Nicky, he said nothing about wiping any land mass of any map. He referred to the virus that is Zionis**m which should be stopped. He has nothing against Jews. There are 10,000s of Jews living peacefully in Iran.

Iran has attacked no one in over 200 years. Israel, an apparent country with no defined borders and the US has attacked about 40 countries over the last 60 years.

Ask yourself, can you remember the same lies Israel and the US said about Sadams WMDs?
Also, why would a country, even if they had a bomb, use it, as if they did, their country would be nuked back to the stone age.
Same reason N.Korea got the bomb and wont use it unless they are attacked.
So, by having the bomb means its a deterrant to the only country that has used it twice, that killed 100,000 people and countless more over the last 65+ years.

Im no fan of the leader of Iran, but I’m also not a fan of mass murder.

Well said Phil. Have a look out for Road map to Apartheid coming out shortly. Great film on Israel.

That’s true, very few people in the media highlight that they have not signed the nonproliferation treaty or the fact that a growing number of Jewish people particularly in the uk are standing out against Israel’s actions.

Funny that, Barry O’Brien et al. Iran’s state broadcaster quoted Ahmadinejad as saying Israel MUST be wiped off the map.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070927213903/http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=200247

That’s right Darren Gibney, that’s exactly what they quoted in ENGLISH, but they like everyone else got this mistranslation from The Islamic Republic’s News Agency. So no, that’s NOT what Ahmadinejad actually said and any Farsi speaker can confirm this for you. I’m sure you couldn’t be bothered as it wouldn’t fit your agenda, but I did get two of my employees who speak Farsi to translate this for me and while there was a slight variation between them because of expressions that just don’t translate into English, there was no mention of Israel and no mention of map.

http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/rumor-of-the-century/

…right on double Rodger on that man…

no nuclear bombs have to be pointy at the top, it sticks in the ground and kaboom.

If it roundy at top it bounce back to Wadiya and…..kaboom

@Derek Durkin If you hate “zionists”, as you put it, what you probably mean is that you hate Israelis. Since most Israelis are Jewish, then you automatically hate Jews. Stop playing around with words to try and hide your anti-Semitic sentiments.

I dunno, there are quite a few American Christian Zionists..

@Shanti Om American Christian Zionists live in America, not in Israel. Derek Durkin is clearly referring to Israelis. Namaste, oh great sage!

Yes Michelle, that was exactly the point I was trying to make.

Derek said he hated Zionists. *You* tried to twist that into meaning Jew or Israeli.
I pointed out that not all Zionists are Jewish, or Israeli, indeed, many of the worlds Zionists are American Christians and therefore neither Jewish nor Israeli.
In fact, there’s even atheist Zionists.

To equate Zionist with Jew is factually incorrect and is a cheap attempt to silence someone’s opposition to your political beliefs with accusations of anti semitism. It is poor logic, as is the little patronising appeal to ridicule at the end of your comment.

@Shanti Om, Oh Really? What would be Derek’s reasoning for hating American Christians who call themselves Zionists? If they don’t live in Israel, are they in any kind of conflict that I am unaware of? Your point is invalid because, in essence, Zionism derives from Judaism and has so for over 2000 years. Christians in America call themselves Zionist in support of Israel based on their religious beliefs. Anyone who claims he/she hates Zionists, hates Jews who live in Israel. Hence, they hate Jews. I am Jewish, Israeli and Zionist, and therefore I am hated because of all three. There is no way out of this. If you hate Zionists then you hate Israeli Jews, which automatically makes you anti-Semitic. Being labeled that way by Jews themselves is the risk you will have to take if you continue to campaign against us. No need to feel patronised. I have delved into quite a few religions myself for exploration purposes and knowledge.

@Michelle

Your sophistic slithering is a perfect illustration of why Palestinians and Arabs dispair of making peace wiuth Israel.

Rationalisation to support preconcluded belief is your methodology. Honest argument, on the other hand, requires the use of reason to adjust our own partial understanding, and recognises our human common fallibility.

To despise the British imperial methods and racism does not necessarily include a counter-racist hatred of British people. It is no coincidence that Israel’s staunchest allies for decades have been boneheaded Verkrampte South African white supremacists and Irish Unionists.

There’s plenty of reason to dislike American Christian Zionists.. Lets see;
They are standing there right behind Israel, calling vetos at the UN for them no matter what, acting as their muscle, sending their troops over to cause more war and death.. They have caused more chaos and bloodshed than Israel, even if it was because of Israel that they did so.
If anything the American Christian Zionists are worse! At least an Israeli Jew has an excuse, this is part of your belief system. Jesus denounced the Jews, they are supposed to have had him killed – yet there’s all these Christians getting all het up about a battle that isn’t even theirs to fight. Their book technically teaches them to mistrust the Jews, just as much as the Koran does. You’ve just had a couple more millennia to bridge the gap. After all, Jesus, the Galilean, was a Jew himself wasn’t he?

So yeah – we can hate Zionists like George Bush while accepting Israeli or Jewish people as individuals on their own merits. Something that must be difficult for you to get your head around, somehow you seem to have gotten a mistaken impression of the world, must have happened when that massive chip came out of your shoulder.

Israel is the war monger here. Look at all the terrorist operations they have carried out, pre emptive strikes not to mention attacking an American warship because it got in their way.
Israel having nuclear weapons should be the issue here. Can you imagine what Israel would do if Syria succeeded in taking back the Golan heights.
Israel currently is nothing more than a warmonger.

Apparently not Declan, this country is awash with deluded individuals who are obsessed with ‘the Palestinians question’ – from the remarks on this article some people are suggesting it would be good for Iran to have the bomb if only to to to endanger Israel. I would recommend that the same people go and spend time in the west bank to see how well they would be received

Hmm, you’re right we wouldn’t be safe in the West Bank, we might be run over by an Israeli bulldozer as happened Rachel Corrie in Gaza.

If you stand in front of one there’s a good possibility – I’m sure you friends would do the same for you.

If Iran had nukes we’d be in a very very dangerous situation. They want to destroy us.

Palestinians have a raw deal but that is totally not relevant to this.

Fecking hippies and co

Israel’s nukes put the planet in peril, especially in the hands of warheads like Bibi.

These weapons are designed to eliminate civilian populations..the ‘Cold’ War acronym of M.A.D., Mutually Assured Destruction, stalemate of mirror militarist terrorism, remains fitting.

If we don’t outlaw these infernal technologies and lock away any who try to re-introduce them its only a matter of time before some Bibi does an Adolf bunker-trigger exit taking the house down, Samson fashion.
And, that being their mythology(just as Adolf’s was the Norse Ragnarok), stir in the alliance with bible-belt America rampant….and the Armageddon of the first industrialised collision(a.k.a. the Great War)begins to look slightly squibbish. The Pentagonian Strangeloves, and their Zionist homies, discuss it in those very terms. Its not classified…you don’t even need the net…use your libraries and bookstores.

@Damien Flinter A warheads like Bibi? And yet he hasn’t declared war on any of Israel’s neighbouring countries even though he has had numerous reasons to do so. Beginning with Gaza where Hamas has been launching rockets into south Israel throughout this entire year. So where did you get this idea?

To be fair, he hasn’t dropped a nuke on Gaza, but Israel already came under pretty heavy criticism for dropping white phosphorous on them..
Perhaps he made an executive decision and realised that if he launched a nuke no one would support him and Israel would go up in a puff of smoke harming many innocent Israelis?

So would the pro-Israel/Zionist/Something (sorry, I don’t know what to call you hotheads because I know many Isaelis who are very concerned by the way things are going) lobby agree to something like this:

1) No nukes for Iran
2) No nukes for Israel either

Enforced by the UN. I wonder. Neither country has a good record when it comes to UN resolutions and respecting their neighbors (don’t give me the “all our neighbors want to destroy Israel” stuff. I know Israel needs a way to defend itself but these nukes and the constant invasions of Lebanon/Gaza etc are overkill)

Yes, Michelle. He’s actually a peacenik and undercover with Gush Shalom.

How wrongheaded of me.

..@mary fitz…in ref to “lady”

Unfortunately Mary you can double the high end of that number. Best estimates put it at 200+ warheads.

Why do you care?

That “mad dog” you refer to, Mary, has to be a mad dog, for if Israel weren’t that mad dog, then by golly every tom, dick, and harry would have success terrorizing and murdering my land, or is it that you are jealous like the Nazi regime was that the Jews are so brilliant and smart?

…hot dog lady…

Wow Mary, you seem to be in the know, could you please share where you got your information from? If Israel have nukes, and I certainly hope they have, they have never used or threatened to use them or wipe a country or peoples off the face of the earth, the president of Iran has though, you know, President Ahmadinejad, he has been all over the news for the past couple of years threatening Israel, America ect, and do you really think he will stop there? maybe you fancy wearing a burca. I think we all know who the mad dog of the middle east is Mary, and its not Benjamin Netanyaho. its people with your view that allowed Hitler to get into power in the 1930s and we all know where that ended. Please cop on Mary and open your eyes to the truth.

@Jan/Paul As soon as someone criticises Israel the “Nazis” are are called in? Is that truly the only argument you two have?
There are many liabilities in the middle east and Iran having a nuke isn’t a good thing, but if there’s on nation in the mids of it all that likes to stir things up and does zero effort to achieve any lasting peace in the Middle east, it’s Israel. Warmongering and convinced of its superiority, backed and aided by the US, Israel has become a nation of bullies and war criminals, rather then the promised land it was supposed to be!

I got the impression from these guys that only the Messiah may lead the Jews back to the holy land and that no blood may be shed in Israels reformation..
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org
(Mind you – they want Israel to be handed back and at this stage that’s not logistically viable).

Mind you, they reckon that’s what the Torah says – and that to be a Jew one must observe the Torah.. Then you have other groups of Jews who reckon that the book gives them special rights over the land for them to go in and possess it like in Deuteronomy – where they are told to utterly destroy anyone and anything in their path.

It all depends what part of the bible you want to focus on really, after all – Yahweh and Adonai were originally two different people, it does explain the split personality of the books..

All up to interpretation, is the reader a peace loving, gentle soul or someone who needs to feel superior? Within the realms of any of the Abrahamics you will always find both – proving that religion doesn’t make you a better person, you either are or you are not.

Well that didn’t go well, link is here;

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/166058-136576-wile-e-coyote_super.jpg

1992 and a few times since then as far as I can remember.

Of course they ‘love their children too’ as per their belief system they actually value their male children twice as much as their female offspring. They would never behave as Afghans and use children as suicide bombers. You’re a very clued up individual Kevin

So “Buckwheat” i take it by the cynical tone of your comment, that you believe Iranians do not love their children, at least not as much as we do – my god I don’t think I’ve seen a more idiotic comment on this website.

Again, you’re right Kevin – I would actually recommend that you go and spend some time in this bastion of family values.

That’s exactly what Noam Chomsky has suggested for years. “If they don’t have the bomb already, they better hurry up.”

Second cold war doesn’t sound great. Israel is friendly to the US and Europe, Iran thinks we are evil and godless. They really really shouldn’t have nukes, don’t be insane.
A nod to Sting in the previous comment?

Funny Buckwheat because the Koran actually says that Allah heaps extra favour upon those who bear daughters – and extra special favour for those who have more than one (guaranteed place in paradise if I remember correctly)

But hey, I guess that doesn’t fit into your neat little “they’re all evil” mindset..
Perhaps you would do well to realise that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all actually more or less the same and start viewing them as people rather than labels?

Not yet, Obama wouldn’t dream of upsetting his voters pre election but after that who knows. Personally i believe the war mongers will get their way. The whole build up reminds me of pre Iraq, lets hope it doesnt go global which considering the financial state of the world and the massive amount of arms sales around the world it is a big possibilty.

And nobody has mentioned that non-proliferation signatory Teheran called for an international conference to begin multilateral decomissioning of these, literally infernal, weapons of mass destruction.

The peace-loving west didn’t even have the wit to respond positively…just like Iraq and Libya and Syria(all of whom offered compromise)…we’re going in. Mission loooong premeditated.

John Byrne, I take offence to your continued use of the comments sky fairies, refairing to God, you are insulting peoples belief system. please get with the subject of the article. If you don’t believe in God, thats your prerogative and right, but stop insulting people who do by insulting their God. Thank you.

Paul.
You are free to take offence, but there is nothing that says you have a right to be protected from it. Offence is entirely subjective and has everything to do with you as an individual. On the other hand – there is a right to freedom of expression and sadly if you can’t handle another persons expression then it is *you* who needs to deal with it.

I find religions offensive. I find being told that I am somehow a lesser human being because I don’t believe in the same nonsense offensive. I find the notion that some people use their religious beliefs as an excuse to hurt others offensive.. But I can’t stop them by saying “you offend me!” can I?

Same way you will never stop anyone calling the god of the Abrahamic religions a sky fairy. That’s just the way the world works I’m afraid..

I agree he is a politician, but by golly war is NOT what he ever wanted. If yu, anonymous, sat in a place that was daily threatened by a nuke from Iran, then you would singing a different tune!

“daily threatened by a nuke from Iran”, and exactly how is that possible when they don’t have any nukes and no one not even Israel is claiming they have? Stop talking crap Janice.

And if they dont we will have nuclear suicide bombers.

But they don’t have a nuclear bomb, Israel does.. So really who is sitting with a nuke pointed at them?
Your logic is a little backward here, the inspectors said there’s no bomb.. Have you got information that they need to be let know about?

Please stop feeding the troll.

Ant-Israeli Yankee Jews presenting the Liam McCarthy cup to the shah-beag of Persia.
It’s a strange ould world

That’s a gem and worth downloading as it undoubtedly wont remain on you tube for long.
It proves simply what he and those that are not blinded by propaganda and religious hate have been saying, Ahmadinejad is not anti-Semitic, just simply anti-zionist like any sane person should be.

@Derek he is so pro-Jewish he claims the holocaust didn’t happen. So pro Jewish he claims the right to destroy every Jew in Israel and wipe the Jewish nation off the map. Oddjimmynob finances incessant terrorist attacks on Israeli Jews at home and abroad. These targets are not military and have no military value. They are to sow terror in the heart of Jews. Oddnob follows the Koran literally and seeks out Jews to kill them. He has confidence, frequently expressed, that his saviour the Mahdi will arrive soon to convert the world to Islam and sharia law and destroy Israel. He is the most vocal anti- Jewish leader in the world today. I saw the video. Nice piece of propaganda. And you think he is just a Jew Lover with a Zionist problem. How utterly naive can you be?
Anti Zionism is a very very thin veil for anti-Judaism.
Here’s your hero in his own words: “Israel is “a contradiction to nature, we foresee its rapid disappearance and destruction.”"

To be fair those guys are from the Nateuri Karta (spelling?) they are anti zionist Jews.
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org

Actually Kieran, anti-Zionism is not a veil for anti-Judaism. Anti-Zionism does not need to be defended, because it is a perfectly reasonable stance to take. After all what do the Zionists want? Complete control of Palestine and the expulsion of all those they view as racially inferior. Many people view that as wrong, regardless of their race or religious beliefs.

Saying that someone who is opposed to Zionism simply hates Jews is a cheap tactic employed to deflect any criticism away from the Israeli state. It is also factually inaccurate and indeed there are many proud Jews who are fervently anti-Zionist.

@John. Show me the anti-Zion but pro-Jew gentiles out there – if they exist. It is obvious and plain as the nose on your face that anti-Zionism is very much tied to anti-Judaism. Judaism and “The Land” are so intertwined that they are impossible to separate.
If you are fair-minded, or even merely observant, you will note that the Jewish nation is the most universally despised nation on the face of the earth. Why? Surely the national governments of other nations have committed worse “atrocities” than the Israeli government (I do not compare the democratically elected government of Israel to the monsterous dictatorships and the real atrocities of other nations). How about Rwanda. North Korea. Cuba. Argentina. Russia. Cambodia. Germany. Serbia. Iran. Syria – and so on.
The peace of the world revolves around Israel’s fate. Why?
They (the Jews) are a people set apart, unique amongst the nations. Why?
2,000 years of persecution could not eradicate them or their language and there is no other tribe on earth to compare to them. Why?
In the meantime, you and others here condemn out-of-hand the freedom-loving free-voting men and women of the only free nation in the middle east.
What have Israel done that you would rather condemn her than any of the dictatorships that surround her?
What is so special about Israel?

What about the anti Zionist Jews in Israel and Palestine? Shall we forget that they exist so we can keep up this pretence that Zionist somehow equals Jew? If they are anti Jew then they would be anti themselves, is that even possible?

Shanti – “any anti-Zion pro Jew Gentiles” was the question.
Also – you can’t explain away the resurrection of the Jewish homeland after 2000 years scattered in every nation. Yet there they are, faith and language intact. Still hated by almost all.
Why the anti Israeli feeling? What have Israel done that is worse than the other nations I listed above? Why the special contempt for Israel rather than, say, the anti-women Saudi Arabians? Or the serial rapists of Kuwait? Or the rampaging anti-Christian mobs in Egypt? Or Pakistan? Or the anti-Jewish Khameini in Iran who murders women and students with impunity? The same fellow who hangs gays like dogs?
When’s the last time an Israeli leader threatened the existence of Jordan, a nation built on ancient Israeli land? Or called muslims “dogs”? Which Israeli schoolbooks call for the elimination of an entire people? which Israeli military wing is sworn to eliminate all Muslims wherever they are found?
What is the problem with a Jewish homeland? Would you rather see them driven into the Mediterranean? Or killed off? Maybe they ought to disperse back to Europe and Russia and Ethiopia where they were so loved before. Or perhaps they should hand the Golan heights back to their friendly neighbours the syrians, and maybe the syrians won’t attempt to destroy them
this time. Or give the Negev back to their pals the Egyptians? Or knock the walls which keep the gaza residents out? Give a suicide bomber a chance, mate. you know before the walls were built Israeli suicide bombers were regularly crossing over and murdering Muslims in cafes and on buses. The Lebanese border is a joke. How can Hezbollah bomb Israeli civilians in peace when the IDF keep targeting them? Likewise the second and third generation Egyptians and jordanians who now identify themselves as Palestinians, in Gaza, and if they are not wanted by Israel, and they certainly
aren not, it is shocking that their religious and Semitic brrheren, with their half-empty lands, don’t want them either. That’s why there is a border between Egypt and Gaza manned by armed Egyptians, who frequently have used armed force to maintain such a border. Same in the West Bank-Jordan border.

I have no problem with Israels existence, but the expansion of settlements, the “putting the Gazans on a diet”, dropping white phosphorous.. I take issue with that.

Likewise, I take issue with people being hung for being gay, persecution of women etc wherever it’s going on – but a) that’s not relevant to *this* discussion, and b) there are some things I am still learning about and do not feel I know enough to comment on, in those cases I watch and check links that people provide to see what knowledge and understanding I can obtain.

I hope that some day both sides, Israel and Palestine, can stop talking about peace and actually start living it, but I don’t see enough motivation coming from either side. I see a lot of hatred, I see a refusal to empathise, I see futility unless the leaders of all parties start copping on to themselves.
Israel exists now and that’s that, the best anyone can hope for is compromise and a two state solution. Palestine have asked Israel to stop expanding, Israel have asked Hamas to stop firing rockets – surely if Israel stopped expanding then Palestine could force Hamas to surrender their arms like we did with our paramilitary organisations?

Kieran, you seem to fave a fair bit of misunderstanding about the situation. Israel is not the only state in the region which is oppressive. However, it is the one which has caused the most chaos in the region since 1967. Now this is not just my opinion, this is historical fact.

The groups which Israel now labels as terrorist organisations exist because of Israel’s actions. Hamas was not founded until 1987, at which time the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank was twenty years old. Likewise in Lebanon, Hezbollah only came into existence after the Israeli invasion. People will take up arms against a foreign occupier. It happened in Vietnam, it happened in Algeria, it happened in Ireland and it happened in countless other places down through the ages. And, as is always the case, the occupier will refer to those fighting against him as criminals, extremists or terrorists.

What exactly do you mean by “pro-Jew”? It’s quite a strange term. I am a gentile, but am I pro-Jew? I don’t know. Maybe I am since i enjoy the films of Woody Allen. What I am certainly not is anti-Jew, I am anti Zionist; and if you are going to have an opinion on the conflict, you need to be able to tell the difference.

Now as for the nations which surround Israel. Egypt is no longer a dictatorship and President Morsi was democratically elected by his people. Turkey is a parliamentary republic which holds free elections every few years. Lebanon is also a parliamentary democracy, albeit one with severe human rights issues and abuse of power. The people of Syria are currently fighting against their dictator (a dictator Israel would rather see hold onto power). In Jordan, King Abdullah II still reigns but in 2011 he instructed his government to undertake political and social reforms to move the country towards a European style constitutional monarchy. My point is that the political situation in the region is far more complex then “good, democratic Israel” versus the “evil dictatorships”.

However, what these surrounding countries are not doing is engaging in the orchestrated destruction of a people. Regardless of the democratic rights the state of Israel grants to Israelis, its treatment of the Palestinian people is wrong in every sense of the word; legally, politically and ethically. The misdeeds of others do not excuse the misdeeds of Israel.

John, Zionism is the right of every Jew! Many Jews who say they are not are Jews that have no right to be called Israelis! The beauty of Israel’s future is so glorious that your words just disappear by the wayside. Everyone thinks they can keep saying whatever they want against Israel, but that is not true! Israel is only for the Hebrews! All your words are rubbish and trash for G-D is alive and well protecting the precious possession of Jacob for his children. Period.

Can’t expect any better from some people when they come out with statements like “The Jews control the media.” “The Jews are altering the weather.” “The Zionists were behind 9/11 to turn the world against Muslims.” Also when they question the Holocaust and somebody named “Fuzi” just yesterday in the “Nazi Invasion of Ireland” article was writing pro-Nazi comments and they post many anti-Israrl comments in articles like this. If you ever point out they are anti-Semitic they go ballistic.

Normally when one side of the debate out numbers the other side it signals to sane rational people that that side are right. Maybe you should take that fact onboard
Either the majority are inexplicably anti Semitic or you are deluded or religiously brainwashed. Its that simple. Being a betting man, my money is one you being plain wrong

I’m Atheist……….

Then your brainwashed.. Not blaming you. Just making an observation. Have you ever considered that a possibility?

I consider every possibility. It’s very possible that I am not drinking my coke right now and am in a Matrix. The possibilities are endless. How is believing in Israel’s right to exist, brainwashed? I am not against the Palestinians getting their own little state.

Paul Clarkson, if only the fools would stop being fools and use common sense as you have, then the world would maybe much for peaceful. The war in the Middle East was provoked by the Arabs and Israel, the blameless lamb, continually is blamed for not giving up their land for terrorism!! How utterly twisted is that. The Arabs and the world is twisted, but I am so thankful that Israel’s existence is not up to them, but is a priority of G-D, right? :)

Shanti – I mean it is a fact that they are one of the most persecuted groups in history. That doesn’t give them a monopoly/favoritism; it’s just a fact and is still happening today. People even today want to wipe Israel off the planet and Mein Kampf is a very popular book in Palestine. I didn’t say other groups suffering around the world weren’t a big deal or any less. I think the main problem is that many Palestinians do not want to even recognize Israel’s right to exist. So how can one expect Israel to recognize them? It’s awfully hypocritical. But one Jewish state should not be an issue vs. tons of nut job Islamic states. But yes it’s good we agree on a two-state solution.

Yes Kevin, but look at it another way – half the population of Gaza are children. Children who live in the equivalent of an open air prison. They have had white phosphorous dumped on them – and that stuff is nasty – it’s like a nuke, there’s no justification for it.
Yes, there’s people launching rockets into Israel, and they are in the wrong too. I do not condone their actions any more than I do Israels.

Yes the Jews have been persecuted and that is wrong, but is it ok for them to do the exact same thing? It doesn’t excuse them, if anything it makes their actions that bit worse. Surely if they know the pain of persecution they would strive to avoid being the persecutors? If they are the bastions of freedom and democracy in the Middle East then why do they retaliate so harshly instead of striving to reach an agreement?
Like I said to Jan below – and this applies to both sides if the equation, actions speak louder than words.. Peace talks mean nothing without the actions to back them up.

No you missed it. The only real evil in the world is faith based beliefs.

Well – to clarify, the evil in this world comes from young minds being taught that because of their beliefs they are somehow superior to others.

We are all humans, we are all born as clean slates ready to learn – religious indoctrination twists these innocent open minds and makes them hateful – as long as there is a notion of goyim, pagan or infidel this will continue to be a scourge on our race – humanity.

Religions are designed to divide, conquer and control. There’s no spirituality to preaching hatred or bigotry.

There’s also no such thing as a bad country – there are only actions. At the moment no one in the Middle East is blameless, but Israel position themselves as the forward thinking “betters” of the region, much as the US position themselves as “peacekeepers” it’s doublespeak at its finest, if you wish to be seen in a certain light then perhaps you should behave in that manner?

I mean, bombing your way to peace sounds like an oxymoron, and you can’t claim to be civilised while dropping white phosphorous on children.

Ok now you don’t make sense, John. Oh well that’s ok. I wouldn’t pay heed anyway. :)

Jan has to be a troll!

Larry chooses to live in the la la land of his ignorant mind. He is one that wouldn’t even know when a nuke hits him and goes to hell.
It’s ok, Larry, you can enjoy your la la land of ignorance, but we in Israel know that we live in the truth of hatred and jealousy of our land.

I don’t believe Jan is really Jewish. I would credit a true Jewish person with a bit more intelligence than has been displayed here.. I reckon Jan is here purely to try and make Jewish people look bad – and would possibly be doing a good job if they weren’t so transparent..

@Joan: I posted this same comment under another article speaking of trolls. I will post this to you in response to your stupid comment.

”

There are many known Jewish sites that proclaim the love of the land of Israel. And it is so sickly common for the the haters of Israel to come with anti-Semitism to filthy the page with obscenity, hatred, and lies against the Jewish people in Israel. They are called trolls, but not only trolls, but they violate their fellow man with obscenities, violent speech, and lies. Israel has a right to exist. Period! So on another article here in the Journal, I was deemed a troll by a couple of people because I spoke of Israel’s right to exist. I don’t know much about the Journal, but I do know that we have a right to give our opinions. Is the Journal anti-Semitic? Does the Journal make it public that they hate Israel? I don’t know, because I just started to comment yesterday, so in reality when I was called a troll, I would have to conclude that one uses “TROLL” loosely when one opposes another view. In essence being called a TROLL by some in actuality is a cop out, and a tactic of manipulation, to hopefully shut that person from being able to usurp their right for free speech, at least that’s what I have seen here in the Journal. Now if the Journal truly hates Israel and embraces terrorist acts against the Jews in Israel, then that needs to be made evident by all those who love and defend Israel’s right to exist. So if that is evident and the Journal makes that statement that they do embrace Arab terrorism in Israel by saying “Palestinians” have a right to the land of Israel, then I would know that I am a TROLL. So far I am not a troll, but a Jew who loves and defends the existence of Israel!”

More personal attacks Jan, you do realise that if enough people report you for making as hominem attacks – which is clearly against the rules for the comments section on the journal, that you could well end up blocked from the website? On BOTH your Facebook accounts?
By all means, love your country and sliver what you want, but when you start calling people stupid and making personal attacks you lose all credibility.

Sliver? Believe! My apologies for the typo.

How can I stop talking about “sky fairy pals,” Santa, or a leprechaun if: 1. I never started about them and #2. I don’t believe in them? LOL! You and all the goons out there that believe in a farce called the “Palestinians” are those that are sorely threatened by the realness and identity of Israel. Israel is one of the most sure thing on the whole planet, and the only reason the Arabs have failed every war is because of that reality called Israel (established as a forever land for us Jews)! The only reason you and all the goons place your faith in a lie called the “Palestinians” is because you can’t even touch or harm Israel with your tiniest finger. You are threatened and frustrated with the Arab failure to have Israel, and I understand that, but you and all your goons will do nothing but be threatened and frustrated till the grave. Sorry.

The only problem Israel, the US and the West in general have with Iran getting a nuclear weapon is that they will no longer be able to conduct their seemingly neverending wars on the people of the Middle East. A nuclear Iran will serve as a deterrent to foreign invasion of Middle Eastern countries, much like a nuclear United States acted as a deterrent to any possible invasion of Western Europe by Soviet Russia. Thats his idea of a New World Order. Israel’s problem is that they wouldn’t be too happy if they weren’t the only nuclear country in the Mid East.

There was no scheme for world domination behind the ’79 revolution. The revolution was caused by decades of oppression by the western installed Shah and his despotic government. Oppressed people rose up and threw out an ageing dictator, it is just incidental that the rallying cry of the day was that of Islam.

It is now unfortunate that when revolution came to Iran, it left behind complications. That said, history has shown time again that the biggest threat to peace in the Middle East is Israel, not Iran.

USA had a revolution in 1775. It seeks to expand that revolution across the world. For years American presidents and influential Americans spoke about a new world order. They stand up at the UN and lays out their thinking and people are silent to their words.

The only world order going on here is the American one. Large parts of the world can feel the tentacles of the American empire. I thought he spoke a lot of sense at the UN as Gadaffi use to.

Thanks

I was aware of the Rothschilds but the extent of control would appear to be overwhelming .

Thanks

I was aware of the Rothschilds but the extent of control would appear to be overwhelming . Why has no one popped a proverbial cap in their collective ass ?

That link is not working Jackie. Can you post it again?

As that excellent(Jewish) songwriter Paul Simon put it in his apartheid challenging album…’..a loose affilliation of millionaires and billionaires..’.
Mutually backscratching elites around the globe, who will fall on each others throats if they notice a whiff of weakness. Its a prehuman animal instinct. Humanity is something more than bipedal somnambulance.

See my comment above?

What comment, Ed?

You made 2 comments… which one, Ed? LOL. Am I brainwashed? is that the one? :)

No, Jan, there was nothing there to wash when they looked.

If you believe the Iranians they aren’t building one because the ACTUAL rulers of Iran, the Ayatollahs, believe nuclear weapons are against God. IF they are producing a nuclear weapon it is because they are being threatened and feel the need for one. Why does Pakistan and India have nukes? Deterrent. Why did the Soviets and Americans have a huge build-up? Deterrent.

Sean, who do they need to deter apart from themselves and each other?

Who does it fear, give me a break Declan. It fears that its natural resources are gonna be stolen by corporate war mongers. Surely your not that nieve.

Very foolish. Iran have lots to deter. Israel has already murdered and abducted many of its scientists. Who hives Israel the right? If Iran reeks the need to become nuclear armed so be it. It would be a good deterrant to Israel.
Nuclear weapons are a fact now. They have been used in the past thousands of years ago as the Purannas clearly show and hopefully they will not be used again.

B Lowe: “They have been used in the past thousands of years ago as the Purannas clearly show and hopefully they will not be used again.”

WTF does that mean?

B Lowe, yes please explain that paragraph? The purannas? Thousands of years?

B Lowe, thanks for the laugh. You had me shaking my head before about your “zero point energy” and that the U.S. was murdering anyone who tried to bring it to the world now your saying that nuclear bombs have been used for thousands of years?!

Declan: “It doesn’t share a border with israel.” Are you assuming Israel is planning on attacking Iran with a nuke in the back of a Hi-ace? As for the other countries that border Iran, two are occupied by US forces and a third is a US ally.

I know it’s definitely one of those WTF moments. But the more you read and research it the more it is evident.
Nuclear weapons have more than likely been used in the past. Search the references to them in the Purannas.

Zero point energy has been a fact for a long time Declan. There is just simply too much money in oil and electricity. If you believe zero point energy systems have not been discovered then you should do more research.

Anyway, back to article.
Why is Israel given a platform at the UN? Israel does not respect International Law and actually violates it regularly.
There is a resolution from the UN on Palestine re Israel, and Israel ignores it.
Israel has blocked a UN fact funding mission in Palestine.
I mean, Israel should not be given a platform at UN to sprout its warmongering propaganda. Israel does not in any way respect the UN and they should be selectively using it to suit their own needs.

Paul…that ‘anti-West nation’ bit….the planet is spherical…most of our ‘western’ civilisation and science is based on Chinese invention and genius coupled to the Indo-Arabian mathematics and the renaissance humanism carried by Islamic scholarship through Europes dark ages of feudal savagery and used as foundation for our scientific icing on a collective human endeavour..
Nationalism itself is a late reaction to imperial abuses.
If you’re going to invoke western values, know what they are and where they originate…it might help you preserve them from internal destruction.
As for ‘thugocracy’…look up Sabra and Shatila.

Ironic, from the man who is a citizen of a country with a recently introduced anti-Blasphemy law.

If there is an irony it is in your equating me with the idiotic blasphemy law simply because of the plot of ground I was born on.
Your racist slip is showing.

Mjhint, aka Muhammed wannabee, you define an extremist as Jews who boast in their right to defend their land from a continual threat? LOL! Well then I am a proud extremist! Mjhint, if Iran were to seriously threaten your country, where ever that may be, then by golly your government would be deemed extremists according to your definition. Grow up and make man and common sense statements, it better becomes you.

Really Jan so there are no Jewish extremists trying to get all the jews into Israel even stealing land from arabs to do so & bring on the end of the world. Do you deny this. While the other fools in the form of Hamas do the same for different beliefs. I say again Israel is full of extremists on both sides & now we may see a nuclear war because of it. I dont give a f##k what they do to each other but that affects me & my children.

Mjhint, for once we agree there are extremist on all sides of Israel and they are called the Arab Nations sending their terrorists to live in Gaza to terrorize, steal, and murder the Jews in every way they can! Thank you for finally making sense. LOL! NOT! :)

Mjhint, one more thing… Israel as a government need to portray even more “extremism,” as you define it. You know why? Answer: Israel needs to take away the “Palestinian” terrorist threat by shipping these Arabs back to where they belong. That is the most humane act Israeli government could make, but obviously Israeli government are not “extremist” enough to do that, because compromise and greed is the greatest motivator.

The Israelis are as bad Jan. They do it all in the name of ignorance & superstition. Two rediculous & callous beliefs bent on bringing on armageddon. We know all about religious wars in Ireland. The people of Israel should take note. These are wars that cant be won.

Mjhint, lol what else can a Nazi/ Mohammed wanabee say? You are a jokster, but it’s not funny when your anti-Semitism against the Jews takes you to the place Hitler is in: HELL!

Jan, are you really Jewish?
Because if you are, are you not painfully aware of how your words could be viewed as you sinking to the level of those Muslim extremists you claim to hate so much?
Or is it through the mirror of relationships we see ourselves?

You sound very militant and quite compassionless. If you are this badly brainwashed to extremism then it merely confirms my disdain for the unholy trinity of the Abrahamic religions, each one claiming elitism and superiority over all those who are different. The pinnacles of the left hand path of the ego.

We are always hearing about how it’s only the Muslims who get all extreme and literal about their scripture but it just isn’t true. You are proof of that. I hope you are happy with how you have represented yourself and your cause.

Im glad you got to call me that. At the end of WW2 a ship carrying jewish refugees sailed into an Irish port. The authorities did not grant them permission to come ashore. They were sick wounded & dying on that ship. A member of my family was involved in negotiations to allow them to disembark & recieve assistance. Im much further from a nazi than hamas & your Israeli friends.

Shanti, are you a Jew or a Muslim? Obviously I don’t hide my personhood, but before I respond I would like to know who you are before I respond to your accusations.

Shanti, I am one and the same as Janice Dolash. I just have 2 FB’s… so I will comment one thing. Even though you may not respond to my question of whether you are a Jew or Muslim, still I will say one thing. I am not offended by your words. You mean them as accusations, but I receive them as a compliment, because in the scheme of the whole world Israel is to be a Nation set apart for our G-D. What may be foolish and horrible to the common man who says peace among all religions, is in actuality truth and living for many of us Jews. I don’t care what you or anyone would think because you are mere men and woman with no understanding of the truth of the reality of the holiness of Israel and of the G-D of Israel. Yes, I could play a part in a military role, for the record, I would gladly remove the threat that has plagued our land for so many years. I do thank you for your words for they bring a smile to my face knowing that I may be one of those Jews on a deserted Island with my convictions, but in the end true peace will come when war against the evil of Arab terrorism will come.

Jan, please read my comment. I have disdain for all three Abrahamic faiths and their genocidal, hateful god. So no, I am not a Jew, I am not a Christian and I am not a Muslim.

Now, rather than using poor logic to try and make your argument by trying to bring my personhood into it, would you mind addressing the actual question?

Do you really feel that your comments here serve to help people feel sympathy for Israel and the Jewish people, or could it engender ill feeling toward yourself, and in the minds of less logical people, paint other Jews in a poor light by association?

If a Muslim extremist were making these statements about Jews in Israel the question would be equally as relevant to them by the way. My questions are solely about YOUR words here.

OH… now I understand, Shanti. LOL! I missed the part where you give your twisted views on the G-D of Abraham. What can I say to you, when you have chosen a path of chaotic substance. LOL! Many non religious Jews may hold to your confusion, but there are many of us Jews with common sense to know that the G-D of Abraham is beautiful, holy, and righteous in all His ways. There is nothing to discuss with you, who have chosen a path of lies. If you deny the beauty of G-D’s righteousness then of course you will contend with every word I say. It’s ok….moving on… :)

Shanti you have your answer & you are correct about the ego side of religion. You cant get into the mind of a religious fundamentalist. Its locked down. I fear for the future because of these beliefs. We may have to go to war to end this. Truly frightening.

Ok..
“When they said he could walk on water
What it sounds like to me
Is that he could float like a butterfly or sting like a bee
Literal people are scary man, literal people scare me,
Out there trying to rid the world of its poetry
Down there at the church of “look – it says right here – see?” (Ani Di Franco)

No sense arguing with the fundamentalists.. The books a plagiarism of the Ancient Sumerian myth of creation anyway..

@nial murph eh check out Colorado transmission of explosive events re 9/11 ..responses by public …moving IMHO ..quite naturally …forgive stupid dots hahaha….

er..Janice..it might be advisable to grow out of your infantile dependence on your invisible friend before delivering those sermons on childishness…

There is life after superstition.

Damien, you are holding up a mirror as you direct those foolish words to me, but in reality you are only seeing your own reflection in that mirror. Meaning what you accuse of me is only what defines you as a person. You don’t have any other argument, but just insults, that means you have nothing to say.

Wow Janice, just wow..
You talk a lot about hate, do you feel a lot for others?
I do not hate you, and I cannot hate your religious fixation because I do not believe it exists. I am entitled to my own beliefs, aren’t I?

I do appreciate where your comments come from, you portray yourself as having a superiority complex which is not your fault – you were indoctrinated with this “chosen people” malarkey and we are inclined to believe what we are taught growing up. Usually most people progress to a point of critical thinking and even if they continue with their religion, they accept that most of it is just metaphor and shouldn’t be taken literally.

It’s apparent that critical thinking, nor logic are your strong points. Hence why you engage in personal attacks rather than answering a question. So I will ask again, do you feel that your extremist ramblings make you look better, worse, or the same as an extremist Islamist crying for the destruction of Israel?

Shanti, I have no right to hate my fellow man. How could I if I speak so strongly against Islam’s hate of the Jews. Do I hate those who worship another god than I do or do I hate one who has a another religion than I? How could I hate them if that is exactly what I speak against, especially in regards to Islam’s hatred of the Jews?
Now you have made it very clear that you have nothing to do with the truth of the G-D of Abraham. You believe He was to violent in His approach on war. You embrace your own twisted understanding and point your puny fist in His face and say, “How could you be a G-D of love, but yet you are a G-D of war? I want to have nothing to do with You, G-D!” This is in essence what you say to G-D when you question His ways. How dare you! So in response to your asking if I hate my fellow man: NO, I would be deemed a hypocrite if I did hate my fellow man! Yuck! But, I do hate Islam’s hatred against Israel. I do hate the hearts of those, like you, who rebel against the truth of G-D’s purposes for Israel. I hate lies. I hate violence. You see you want so badly to think that the way I think and comment be motivated in hatred toward my fellow man, but that is just popular tactic to veer away from the truth of my words. Regarding using your so called approach to truth and communication with logic and critical thinking, look where you are at with chaos and hatred toward the G-D of Abraham. I am so glad I am where I am. You can’t explain away the truth of G-D with logic, critical thinking, and science for it will only lead to more confusion, but if one truly desires truth and clarity in G-D’s holy ways then that, my friend, is an act of faith. I can not give that to you. I am not trying to change your mind. You can not change my mind. So where does that leave us? It leaves us going in circles because you refuse truth and love for G-D’s ways. Sorry, I can’t help you.

Oh look at that, you are trying to use what I said to you up thread about seeing ourselves in others against someone else while blissfully unaware of the irony..
Remember – when you point the finger, you got three more pointing back at you!

Shanti, if you called G-D bad and a hater for His acts in the Torah/ Tanach, then by golly I can take what you feel of me also, for at the end of the day I can sleep in great shalom and peace know I was true to G-D. I sleep with peace. I am sure you do to, my friend. :) Now here’s my hand extended to you saying, “It’s ok to be individuals.” Have a great day. I need to run to do a few errands. My children need to be picked up from school so we can enjoy the Shabbat rest together. My greatest joy in life is my soon to be husband, children, and Israel. We are still here in America, but are planning to move to Israel this year. Can’t wait. I am not sure the nationality of yours, but your name Shanti is a very nice name. :) Bye for now.

You still engaged in a red herring.. I asked does your contribution here read like the contribution of a level headed, rational person, or do you sound just like the radical Islamists who cry for the destruction of Israel?

In response to your bow out – I can only form my opinion of you based upon your actions Jan – and all I know of you is what you have written here.
I cannot hold you responsible for the things you have been indoctrinated with, I take issue with it – not with its followers.

My engagement with you here has merely been to try and appeal to your more rational side, to hold a mirror up to you and show you that your comments come across just as extreme as radical Islamists who have visited this site. It makes you look bad, and as you seem to be the one making a point of saying you are Jewish, you may cause some less logical people to think that all Jews think as you do, it could put them off if they did not know any better.

Add in all the personal attacks and put downs and really you just come off as aggressive and hostile – While I can appreciate the reasons for this, I can see you are passionate and that this is merely *your* feelings on the issue and in no way representative of the larger world of Jewish people, not everyone will.

Have a nice Shabbat with your family. I hope that if you ever do make it to Israel that it is an Israel of peace – alongside its neighbours, without war. Peace is possible, but actions speak far louder than words in the process.

Nope, Jan, I’ve plenty to say.

Not least that uber-nationalism can manifest under any flag…it doesn’t have to be a swastika.

Your reply indicates a closed mind. A dangerous weapon if ever there was one.

Netanyahu really delivered a fine speech…!?

Yeah..he should do the Edinburgh fringe..do his nuclear Samson and bring the house down.

Himself and Hillarious Clinton could do a double act.

..@jandolash ” get thee behind me….”where your man stands!? …seemingly…. along with Mr Flinter, who more often than not takes words from your man’s mouth…way the by… http://t.co/mWG70L48….considered more to the point…imho

The “Palestinians” Arabs are the ones who invaded Israel centuries ago, murdered and forced the Hebrews to flee their homeland. Archaeology has proven Israel belongs to the Hebrews. The KKK also are very anti-Israel and describe the Palestinians as the victims.

The only way Israel is established for ONLY the Hebrews was through G-D’s covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I agree with you, Kevin, but I also, being the Jew that I am will always show the supernatural act of G-D in the land being ONLY for the Hebrew. The judgment was most severe, when our forefathers were thrown out of the land of Israel, but the Prophets did nothing but foretell of our return to the land of Jacob! :) The identity of the “Palestinian” existence is none other than a ploy of the enemy to defend terrorism…as if the Arabs have a right to murder and terrrorize the Hebrews/Jews in our land!!

@Jan – People keep fabricating that in Israel, Muslims are treated as second-class citizens. There are plenty of Mosques in Jerusalem and throughout Israel. The state of Israel is diverse contrary to people who say it is not. Palestine-Hamas has never been about getting their own little state because they don’t accept a two-state solution. I don’t get where all the pro-Palestine people think the aid/donations to Palestine go? For some odd reason Yasser Arafat the “peacemaker” is worth over a billion in US dollars.

Kevin, I have come to the conclusion that even though you are atheist you do believe in a god. That god is your mind. Also whether an atheist or not does not change that there is a G-D. Israel is KNOWN by a history of supernatural acts and accounts, being an atheist does not change that. :)

Now, Kevin, if I were to expound on my convictions concerning who truly have a right to live in Israel as Israeli citizens, then I would be throwing my beautiful pearls to be trampled by many… All I can say is that if an Arab citizen or any other non Jew want to live in Israel then they are to adhere to the laws of Israel, only. Period! There are many Arabs in Israel who hold allegiance to the “Palestinian” terrorist cause, and commit daily treason by that act, yet still live by the laws of Israel. These Arabs need to be treated as terrorists and be thrown back to the Arab Nations that G-D mercifully gave them in the first place. We know this won’t happen, at least now with the way Israeli government is, playing footsies with United Nations, America, and European Union. Everything is about oil so for that only compromise will play the greatest role in the minds of Israeli leaders. Muslims should be treated as second class citizens because their beliefs hold to a 2 state plan! Duh, of course. Islam in itself is a not a religion, but an agenda of dominance. Islam was created as a way of war against all that is true and holy in G-D’s purpose for Israel to flourish for Jacob’s lineage!

@Jan – I support Israel but I think your going a little overboard. Most people do not share a religious view when it comes to Israel. Trying to gather support for Israel on the basis of religion does not work for most people and it turns people off. Just like Islamists reasoning ia religion and their invented interpretation of history. The Arabs in Israel have a right to have their allegiance to Palestine they just don’t have a right to terrorize Israel. I agree with Tony Blair that a two-state solution is the only way forward for peace. Palestinians won’t have any excuses for their actions, can’t play the victim card anymore and will have to take accountability for their actions. The problem is that Hamas controls Palestine, they can’t be reasoned/negotiated with. Their objective is to take over Israel at any cost. I respect you have your religious beliefs but I don’t share them as a basis for my support of Israel.

Why, thank you, Kevin, for saying I go overboard! :) I consider the biggest compliment for me as an observant Jew. I do understand you being impelled to say that for you are an atheist. An atheist even more can have even a lesser understanding on the truth of Israel. I do thank you for your support of Israel, though. :)

You are incorrect Kevin. The prevailing belief about the origins of the Palestinian people, based on DNA and genetic studies, is that they are descendants of the people who had lived there for centuries before the rise of Islam. Their ancestors were not invaders, they were converts.

On The other hand huge numbers of Israel’s population are still only 2nd or 3rd generation whose parents or grandparents were colonists from Europe, America or the former USSR.

Er Kevin, what about the mass prosetylyzation – one of very few in Judaism, that saw many Eastern Europeans and Russians convert to Judaism? (Remember, in Judaism there is rarely mass conversion, the Jewish faith positions itself as a superior race and so new believers are not generally welcomed, but their numbers were very low due to the closed off nature of their beliefs – throughout history there have only been a few mass conversions to Judaism by non Jews). I believe this was who John may be referring to. These people are no more Hebrew than you or I, but they are Jewish by religious conviction, and they make up a large percentage of today’s Jews. Are you seriously saying that they have more rights to the Middle East?
Based upon what? A book that has absolutely no basis in fact?

John, explaining every thing by science is hilarious. Israel in every generation had surrounding Nations that always were a thorn in the flesh to them. The Philistines and many more surrounded them, and Israel was continually going to war with them, and many Israelites even abandoned the G-d of Jacob and worshipped the gods of those invaders, but still Israel was always for the Hebrew. That fact never changed. DNA is a stupid notion to the big picture. The big picture is that Israel always belonged to the Hebrew. Period.

Ah now, if you want to use the bible as justification then perhaps bear the following in mind..

The land wasn’t theirs in the bible either.. In Deuteronomy etc they were allegedly told by their god that they were to march into other people’s land to “possess it” and “utterly destroy” anyone who stood in their way. They stole that land and bragged about it in their scripture – their only justification – a belief in an unproven superstition.

They are both Semitic if that is your point but they are still an entirely different people. They are Arabs, they have an ARAB FLAG! The present day Palestinian people descend from invaders and the people present before the invasion. It’s like having two Native American tribes. One tribe works/aligns with the (Palestinians) then invades and murders/steals the other tribes (Hebrews) lands and forces them to flee. It doesn’t matter convert, no convert or whatever. The Jews have been the most persecuted group on this planet and are always the scapegoat. There are tons of Islamic states, what is wrong with one Jewish state? How many Jews go blowing themselves up or hijacking planes? The majority of Palestinians believe that they are entitled to Jerusalem/Israel it’s not even about just getting their own little state of Palestine.

* One tribe (Palestinians) works/aligns with the invaders then invades and murders/steals the other tribes (Hebrews) lands and forces them to flee.

Kevin – here you and I agree more than yourself and Jan, I think we may have spoken before, I favour the two state solution too because anything else is just unrealistic.

With regards persecution – I do not think it is fair to say that the Jews have been the most persecuted in the world, yes – they have been persecuted, no way would I deny that, but to say it this way to my mind diminishes the persecution of many other people’s around the world at various stages throughout history. Lets say no one has the monopoly on persecution or pain, there have been disgusting atrocities throughout our history sadly – each as horrific as the next.

a@ Michael stern berg…could not agree with you more re bigotry on this site!

Which is why those three books need to be destroyed.

Each one teaches bigotry and hatred. As long as you have a book that teaches that others are to be subservient, be they goyim, pagan or infidel, then there will always be these stupid wars.

It’s the scripture that’s at fault, you can’t have these religions without the elitism they preach, the religions need to go.

Michael, I completely agree with your comment!

I find it revealing that although the only specific religious command was Muslim (their Hadith) all religions are being lumped together. I challenge any of you to find anything in Judaism as bigoted as that Hadith from a reliable source.

I posted some from the bible for you at the bottom of the page, try Deuteronomy, Leviticus or Numbers.. All of the Abrahamic religions preach superiority over others which is in essence where bigotry and hatred come from.

No and you’ve scared me right off it. Thanks for that.

Such an actor you are, Timothy. It’s so easy to type and write words, but in essence you only are speaking to the man in the mirror.

I suggest you see a doctor for that persecution complex..before you get my sane jewish friends a bad name.

Shalom.

Damien, you mean Dr. Josef Mengele, the doctor of death?

No, Jan, thats your complex kicking in..overactive paranoia…its gets collective even, as the history of 1930s Germany should inform you.

Do try to be rational.

Jan…like Smirnoff of old..you leave me breathless.

I hope your deity exists..and that when you meet Her she asks why you spat on the intelligence and human conscience she gifted you with at birth.

Think about it..if you can find the machinery.

Lololololololol Damien how dare you think logically and critically, what the hell are you playing at????????.
Jan- Meth must be a hell of a drug!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember, when you point your finger you have three more pointing back at you..

Was I talking to a wall, well yes.. I did say there was no point arguing with a fundamentalist but I’ve been under the weather and truly I have found our conversation rather enlightening.

It reminded me exactly of conversations I’ve had with American KJV onlyists and Radical Islamists.. Just proving my precious statements on this forum that extremism is not confined to Islam.

Now, you might see that as a good thing, but really, it’s not. Extremism is what gets people riled up for conflict, it’s what inhibits peace and disrupts progress. Maybe you are happy to try and drag humanity back to the Stone Age, but there’s a lot more of us who would like to progress and evolve.