He’s not right, he’s just another person lost in the delusion of organised Religion… he still believes in it, he just wants it to be his version of Organised Religion. Which is a slightly better version judging by his stance on women priests and sex, but would still probably involve the indoctrination of vulnerable, believing children, and belief in a fairy story.

but then the children inherited the wealth so the Church of course couldnt let that happen and, for the salvation lf mankind, kept the wealth themselves…

Very true & then catholic church got worried about property right.

Wow, liberal priest gets rebuked by out of touch, stuck in his medieval ways old fart. Surprised anyone? The dinosaurs who run the circus in Rome have an emperor who rules with an iron fist, wonder where he picked that up from?

Apparently, Catholic Priests used to be able to marry, just like their Protestant counterparts. Ofcourse priests should be able to marry and Nuns and have a family of their own. I don’t see how this situation would dilute or deflect their religious beliefs. At least they could speak with more knowledge and authority on marriage, relationships, being a parent etc. Now, they preach about or against matters they have little knowledge about.

His words:

“I look at all the new churches coming to town now with the new arrivals, and they are so vibrant and colourful, I am not surprised people are being drawn to join in.

There is a need for more flexibility in our Church. Young people speak a different language to us now, and live very different lives, and we weren’t trained for it.

One of the things I am very proud of is my involvement with groups such as SOSAD (suicide prevention & help org) and the road traffic remembrance ceremony held here.

I don’t just see these as masses; I see it as speaking and reaching out to people in a concrete way. If the Church is to have any relevance these days, you must meet people where they’re at. I’m also grateful for the continued involvement with Greenhills school, which Fr Jim started and I’m delighted to carry on.”

http://www.drogheda-independent.ie/lifestyle/fr-iggy-never-a-stranger-to-dis-front-page-headlines-1775978.html

…but they didn’t like that thinking – so they shot him down and out!
Recalled him to Rome and chastised him. Sent him onward then with orders of “shut-up”.

He should have gone to a Youth 2000 event. Plenty of young people there!

If people admire and want to follow Martin Luther, no one is tying them to the Catholic religion. If they really accept very little of what Catholicism stands for, why don’t they just leave.

That’s the problem with the catholic church, you can’t leave, they have made it impossible to get out of the cult even if you want to. Try getting your name removed from their religion and you’ll soon see what I mean, they are worst than the moonies!

It is possible though. Ed, see the way John Murphy did it, in above posts. It’s far from easy but he shows that it can be done.

Pity they weren’t so quick to investigate all the child abusers, religious thugs and rapists who infest their clergy and so called ‘holy orders’ ol’ benny seems to be very quick to ‘investigate’ anyone who departs from the strict dogma and ideology of his cult but very slow to the point of failing to deal with anything that might actually concern the sexual abuse of minors by his foot soldiers, double standards, hypocrisy and an attitude that crushes any dissent, what a religion!

@ Ed Appleby Actually the rapists and child abusers are the ones who have been disobedient to the teachings of the Church. They knew and know full well that what they were/are doing is a crime. So the scandals are in fact the result of disobedience. A crime is committed when someone disobeys the law and thinks they know better. Anyone who disobeys Church law or teachings and is suspect imho.

The problem in the Church is that those who disagree with Church teaching on sexuality, women priests, married priests are going against what they vowed to obey. They are disobeying. To tell you the truth I wouldn’t trust any priest who preaches dissent. If you can be trusted in little things, you can be trusted in great things. If you can’t be trusted in little things then you can’t be trusted in great things.

Imagine going to work in a vegetarian restaurant and end up trying to get them to to change the menu to suit you. If you don’t like what’s on the menu, no one forces you to go to that restaurant. Solution – Chop suey!

You might like to read ALL of this for more detail http://thethirstygargoyle.blogspot.com/2011/07/how-many-questions-on-cloyne-report.html

….. and spirituality has NOTHING to do with the church especially not with the catholic church – I am very spiritual but not religious!!!

Here Here! I loved the picture of the rabbit by the way! Very Easter Bunny!

Haha thanks – thats my favourite bunny – like me lol

ummm,the census says 82% say they are Catholic. We are not disappearing. And will never disappear. But the wandering spirits of new age philosophies will disappear like floating bubbles of hot air.

Mmmhhh I dont think so – first of all a number is only a number and has nothing to do with ACTUAL spiritual but with people getting together as everybody else does no questioning allowed. And why did the altenative spirituality directions dissapear before? As the catholic church had the hand so hard and full of power on everything else different and did not allow people to think right or left – Guilt was the the best tool for that or repeating thousand of years phrases man made prayers over and over again til u nearly fainted. Now that is changing- thank god! Still they have the same problem to people think left or right (see INVESTIGATION for someone out of its own people think liberal how ridicolous) but people do not accept this blind power anymore and start to open their minds!!! And Ireland is one of the – slowly but sure – most spiritual and open countries in the world due to its strong spiritual energy. Why does the Pope does not come to Ireland???? Catholic church has to reform totally, which does not mean give up on their spirituality but be much much more open, or they will dissapear faster than they can say the our father art in heaven. There is more than ONE catholic church…..MY opinion anyway and many more will come but everybody has the right to his own beliefs/opinions of course!!! Heaven / Universe / God will all lead us into the right direction!!!! HAPPY EASTER to everyone!!!

@Kerryspirit Chris You seem to underestimate the intelligence of the 82%. I’m afraid numbers are important. That’s how general elections are won and lost. Most Catholics have chosen to remain Catholics as adults because they have found in the Catholic Church a sure pathway to inner peace, true love, and eternal life. Like every organisation there are members who cause great damage because of their inability to obey the rules. Think of the bankers for instance. They know they were flouting all the rules and regulations, but were only thinking of their bonuses!

As for guilt, I can assure it was not the Catholic church that made people feel guilty but mostly the Irish Mammy who wanted to keep up appearances with the neighbours that all was in good order in their house, and who feared above all that one of her children would get someone pregnant or get pregnant and would disgrace the family name. The stick or the wooden spoon was not very far from the Irish Mammy’s apron pocket. Thank God that culture is changing.

Finally the problem is not one of left/right but of Truth. Truth cannot be relative.

(I think I posted this already in the wrong place. Mea culpa).

This seems to have appeared in the wrong place-was meant to be under Kevin Smyth’s and CMD’s posts.

They are Haring disciples, not disciples of Christ.

I agree but unfortunately now due to tighter restrictions by the Catholic Church there is actually no way of officially leaving, bar a conversion and as im not converting to anything so i dont know what to do. Oh and i agree people are being hypocritical but families, tradition and availability of schools make it extremely difficult and thats why i want a secular republic.

“The Catholic Church is based on a teaching model.”

Could have fooled me. Here I thought all this time after reading the Bible, that it was based on fear-mongering, hate and superstitious nonsense. Stoning homosexuals, kill those who work on the Sabbath, a woman needs to know her role, blind obedience to an invisible man or else you’ll burn in hell. A great teaching model that!

The Catholic church is an archaic institution, built on corruption, deceit and sweeping mass child-rape under the carpet. It needs to reform, or get-a-stepping.

Fiachra, Maria – quick question for you. If you convert to another religion are you automatically kicked out of the Catholic Church? Just a thought, but could those who are atheist who want to definitively leave the RC church do so by converting to another religion, one which is easy to leave? I don’t know which one that would be, but let’s say, convert to Presbyterianism and then once the process is complete, leave that Church. I know it’s a long-winded way of doing what should be an easy process, but I know I would do it if it meant I was definitely counted out of any religious statistics.

Or just join the Church of the Jedi or flying spaghetti monster?

Fiachra, I was of the same assumption and said so on another article, but John Murphy (the one with a sorta chicken for an avatar from what I can see) posted this rather useful info for me
Quote: John Murphy
“It’s amazing how the doctrine of the roman catholic church is so embedded in peoples minds. Canon law is their law and DOES not affect your right to have your association with their organization removed. The ‘count me out’ website assisted people in removing themselves and the roman church just decided to change their own laws requiring it’s clergy not corporate with it – that’s all.
Here’s what I done:
I wrote a letter to the incumbant of the parish where I grew up and went to school requiring that my name be removed from all records in the parish registry (babitism, confirmation etc.). I explained in my letter that I was ashamed to be associated with an organization that promoted intolerance towards gay and lesbian people and in other matters of sexuality and moral freedom while harbouring the vilest of deviants within it’s own ranks. I requested that it would be facilitated for me to personally witness the removal of my name and that the event would be confirmed to me in writing.
I delivered this letter personally to the parish priest and asked that he read it in my presence and give me a verbal undertaking that he would comply with my wishes. This he did, in fairness, and I hold this letter in great pride as it confirms to me on diocesan notepaper that I am no longer considered a member of the roman catholic church.
Hope that helps.”
End quote.

Thought it prudent to save that notification email, hope it’s of use to you!!

Thanks for that Shanti but I’ve been told that the Catholic Church has stopped allowing the recinding of Bapismal records, not sure how true that is.

Thanks for reposting my post Shanti,I hope others find it helpful. Oh! By the way no ‘sort of’ about me I’m a fully fledged chicken!

Well reading what Sean wrote it’s lucky i did that count me out thing while they were still accepting them or i’d be in serious trouble being gay and working Sundays. Lucky too I don’t believe in fairytales or I’d be worried sick about the eternity I would spend in Hell. Fr. Flannery obviously does believe in fairytales but at least he is trying to make life easier for others who share those beliefs.

No worries John – like I said, knew it was worth holding on to.

I suppose Fiachra, as we had discussed (John, Myself and someone else) on that thread the thing to do them is officially reject the major tenets of the faith.. I’m sure they won’t want us if we say we reckon it’s all horseshit..

Shanti, thanks for the reminder of John’s brilliant post. What a unique, creative and original way to approach, and deal with a problem. You ain’t no chicken John, at least not in any negative sense. That was brave. If only we could find a similar inventive way, of rescinding our votes that we gave to people, that turned out could not be trusted. It might seem an impossible task to deal such a symbolic, or indeed a tangible and fatal blow, to our master charlatans, but I find John’s steely determination and success, an inspiration, and a lesson in what can be achieved, if only we believed in ourselves to that degree. If I wore a hat, it would be off to you.

Marie I know I am late getting in on this one but I for one HATE the new layout for mass. It’s pointless and does not add iota to the mass service. I’d spend more time trying to find where I’m meant to be reading from than actually attending to the actual readings. I have great admiration for Fr Flannery. The christian organisation founded by Christ was not meant to full of wealth and pomp and ceremony. The first pope was a simple poor fisherman (if u believe scripture). A long way from the pompous dictatorial being who fills that seat now.

@Maria: You mention truth when talking about the church. They’re about as interested in truth as the FF party. Please reconsider.

Thanks Dakina.
I must admit it was not easy. Not because of any latent attachment to their belief or reliance on their moral guidance(!) etc. but I did remember the effort and pride of my parents (both now deceased) in preparing me for these ceremonies. My mother (who had once been a nun and took holy orders) completely rejected the Roman Church in her latter years and passed from this life without a priest near her side nor a prayer on her lips, such was her disgust at the betrayal of her beliefs. Her time as a novice and nun (of which she spoke very little?) laid some early and well founded doubts as well, as time has proven!

I always thought the Old Testament was part of the Bible?

Ah, another Christian that doesn’t actually know anything about the faith that they profess to follow. Firstly, the old testament is a core part of the bible. Secondly, Jesus firmly voiced support of old testament views. You do know that the 10 commandments are a part of the old testament, right?

Thirdly – the new testament has more than enough to say.

Romans 1:27: ” In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

1 Corinthians 6:9-10: “Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 15:4: “For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.”

Basically, read your bible.

Yea, like there are loads of people being stoned because they work on the Sabbath and it’s commonplace to see people being turned into pillars of salt and all Catholic women are barefoot and pregnant and wash their husband’s feet when he walks in the door.Of course the Bible is important, but it’s not to be taken in a totally literal manner.

Ah yes – the “it’s not supposed to be taken literally” charade. I thought the Bible was supposed to be the infallible word of God? Whether Christians are actually engaging in stoning for working on the Sabbath is irrelevant. The fact that the Bible teaches it, and at the same time claims to be a book of morality is a contradiction.

And if it’s up for dispute on what parts can be taken literally, then you cannot claim that the bible teaches objective moral values. Moreover – you cannot dispute the visible anti-gay sentiment within the Church, and the archaic views held within it still today.

Uh, Maria, “not to be taken in a totally literal manner” – are you saying the bible isn’t actually true???

Maria- not literal? So we can finally stop this creationist 7 days nonsense?!

@Sean o’briain are you for real? The old testament is Jewish not Christian at all and sorry to rock your narrow view of the world but Jesus was Jewish as were all his his followers, so of course he supported it… doh! The Catholic version of Christianity was only invented many years after Coptic Christianity and Gnostic Christianity and the New testament you believe in is only a very small percentage of the hundreds of gospel and testaments that are far older. Also if the church should never change its teachings as you seem to support then how do you explain the uturns the infallible popes have made over the earth being the centre of the universe. or being flat etc. And don’t even get me started on the age of the earth etc. I don’t care what religion you chose to support and defend your right to do so but before hurling the doctrine you blindly follow you should realise that you are throwing stones inside a glass house. By your reasoning 39 popes, Pope Joan and all the pedophile and gay priests that are or have been sheltered by Rome and its current Hitler Youth member leader will also not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven either.

Er Jay – It might benefit you to actually follow the flow of conversation. I don’t follow Christianity. It’s all quite obviously a load of made-up nonsense. I was responding to the claim by Maria that Christianity is a teaching model, and highlighted quite rightly – that Christianity is not a valid teaching model, as it is riddled in contradiction and hate.

The Catholic religion isn’t just based on the bible, Robin. By the way, Sean, I didn’t claim that Christianity was a teaching model. I was just referring to Catholicism. I don’t agree with you that Christianity is riddled with contradiction and hate- how can ” Love your neighbour as yourself. ” be a hateful message. It’s failure to show love that leads to a corruption of religion and the hatred you refer to.

Love your neighbour certainly isn’t a hateful message. And if that’s all the Bible said, then it would be a good book. But it isn’t. And if you don’t know that, then you simply have not read your bible. I have already cited passages from the new testament that contradict your claims.

And if the Catholic religion isn’t based on the Bible – then what’s it based on? The Qur’an? Moby Dick? The Adventures of Paddington Bear?

“There is a danger for all of us that we act against God, as we try to become a god ourselves.”

Which God is that? Zeus, Thor, Orion, the Abrahamic God, Ganesh? There’s no evidence that any figure called ‘God’ exists’. How can we act against something which does not exist ? The mind boggles.

Sounds to me like he’s one of the few in the church eho acts like a christian.
You’re right though, the rest do make a wonderful hole: a hole to pour money into. Have you seen Vatican? Those men worship power and wealth, not the way of christ. They are idolers and liers, not christians. If Christ came to the Vatican he would upturn tables in fury and cast them out just as he did the last time he saw a house of god become a place of business.