They are awaiting instructions from their controllers.

I think the Israel lobby’s campaign is a vital part of the story here, thankfully it’s beginning to be picked up on:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/1123/1224327010033.html

Somehow I suspect we are in more danger from Israel’s nukes than Palestinian rockets.

Or from their hit squads cloning our passports.

Apparently Bibi didn’t get enough of a poll-boost out of the last exchange…its being called as a Hamas round.

Can’t have that during an election.

Bibi needs to have an invasion so as to get the people behind a warring leader. It is as simple as that.

Well, rules of engagement when defending a post are probably on their side, not that what they did was a good thing.

Defending a post from what?

I didn’t spot guns. And they are fenced in. Was the fence breached?

And if it was they would be breaking OUT into their occupied homeland.

Hey look, I’m not defending it..

You could well be right, but any rules of engagement that authorise firing upon an unarmed civilian who doesn’t pose an imminent threat – and there’s no suggesting that the victim here did – would seem to be in breach of the Geneva Convention:

(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

Smart Bomb.. not there is an ironic term if ever I heard one.

Maybe some day they’ll invent a bomb that can somehow make a distinction between killing good people and bad people – it might be worth of the term then.

Palestinians fired 12 rockets in aggression within hours of the ceasefire. Israelis fire in defence. Which do you choose to highlight? Biased much.

Aaaaand attempts at defending the indefensible begins.
Thanks for dropping by Richard

You saying the man shot fired rockets?

Whats your source for the rocket fire?

Richard

Free Speech enjoy?

California State Assembly passes law defining criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism
http://gibiru.com/index.php/uncensored-news/78-news/21993-california-state-assembly-passes-law-defining-criticism-of-israel-as-anti-semitism

@ Randy O’Toole: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Comical. You get funnier and funnier everyday.
I hope that is your agenda.

Back to embarrass yourself again, Steo? :)

The oil? You do realise that Israel doesn’t have oil, don’t you?

This guy was shot in the face! Is the face connected to the legs? And for shaking a fence!!!

OK Emmet, they are already fenced into the most overpopulated space on the planet… assembly verboten on pain of massacre?

There are more than 1.5 million people living in an area between 41 kilometres long and 6 to 12 kilometres wide.
I doubt there are many creches or homes left to leave the poor kids

What you are actually saying is that its IDF policy to shoot kids for taunting state-of-the-art armed infantrymen occupying their homeland and fencing into the ‘biggest prison on earth’.

Remind you of anything?

So these people went to the fence because it was overpopulated and expected to be let through? Or, hundreds of them with no care for their own or their children’s mortality went to cause a ruckus and breach a fence against heavily armed soldiers and were surprised when they started sending out warning shots? And then some of them seemingly didn’t back down after the warning shots? Thinking logically, I’m just saying that whatever side you’re on, none of us would ever do that (or bring our kids!) because it’s clearly just suicidal behaviour.

Yeah, Emmet, and none of us should march against Orange fascism in Derry when the paras are about, or protest in Sharpville..against that other apartheid racist regime.

We’d roll over and tug the forelock like good little paddies saluting the fluttering Troikalour.

Fair point Emmet,

I don’t know why there were kids there but like I said where else is there to go, the country is in ruins again.
People protest all the time without getting shot through fences, what justification do you think there is for shooting them?

Damien, all I’ve been saying that if there is an ongoing casefire, don’t attempt to breach a border fence and if warning shots are fired, don’t endanger your life and go home. And don’t bring your children along either.

If you want to do all that then by all means, but the above is just my simple advice that would prevent someone from being shot and killed needlessly.

“Or, hundreds of them with no care for their own or their children’s mortality went to cause a ruckus”

OR

A group of farmers tried to access their fields, being their livelihoods, which had been unilaterally declared off limits by Israel, and were fired upon.

I have no idea which of these stories is true, probably neither, but I’d be very, very hesitant to buy the Israeli version, given their well documented proclivities towards spin and propaganda.

You fail to mention, Emmet that some of their homes may just have been destroyed over the last week of Bibi’s compaign for re-election.
And that staying quiet does not mean you will not be droned out as a suspect. I suspect it is a deliberate attempt to re-ignite Bibi’s backfired mini-war photo-op. Its his style.

And Hamas speak nothing but the truth? Hamas fired rockets into after less than an hour of the ceasefire being signed.

You can read, I take it?

“I have no idea which of these stories is true, probably neither”

What in the name of Lord KKKennedy has Hamas to do with this murder?

Did these kids fire rockets?

@ Emmet Purcell:
yeah Emmet – maybe like you, the kids believe the Zionist propoganda.
you know – when the Israelis kill an ‘innocent’ man, woman or child – they regard it as a failure ??

Yes, Voodoo, I can read. In face I read we’re you said “…I’d be very, very hesitant to buy the Israeli version, given their well documented proclivities towards spin and propaganda”. Somewhat contradicting the first part of your comment. Hamas are also known for their spin, propaganda and duplicity. They’re comments as reported in this article are evidence of that. It was Hamas who first breached the terms of the ceasefire, before the ink was dry on the page, by lobbing rockets into Israel.

There is only one K in my name. Thanks.

Sorry, Your Lardship…do 4give…I was sure you’d appreciate the bonus points.

But you never did answer the question, even though you answered to your title.

For sure, rockets were fired after the ceasefire – if Jabari hadn’t been assassinated, then maybe things may have been different.

https://www.facebook.com/gershon.baskin/posts/10152252026915366

Neither story seems credible to me, but the point here is that I think there’s something distinctly distasteful about the rush to blame unarmed civilians for their having been fired upon by the IDF with live rounds, with one man killed.

I didn’t “answer to my title” which you have subsequently spelled incorrectly. I corrected you on the spelling of my name which was, no doubt, less of an error and more a childish attempt to allude to the negative connotations of the Ku Klux Klan.

What have Hamas to do with this? Well for one thing comments from it’s officials are used throughout the article above. In it the condemns this violence yet they themselves were the first to break the terms of the ceasefire.

As to the role of the dead man in relation to rockets, I don’t know. It’s unlikely he had anythin to do with rockets. However there does seem to be discrepancies in what wash happening at the scene and, of course he biased supposition of commentators here.

The same spokesperson, Adnan Abu Salmia, who claims above those involved were farmers, said elsewhere they were there attempting to retrieve a damaged Israeli jeep (reported in the telegraph).

A relative of the dead man claimed he was attempting to tie a Palestinian flag to the fence and corroborated the Israeli version of events regarding warning shots, three by his statement, being fired.

The

“approached Israel’s border fence with Gaza to pick up parts of an Israeli army jeep damaged in the fighting”

Doesn’t match either official story, and seems to me to be possibly more credible.

Anyway, even taking the Israeli argument at its height, that a group of unarmed civilians were at the fence, would teargas, rubber bullets or other non-lethal weapons not have been a more appropriate response than live rounds, even accepting that warning shots were fired?

Btw, there’s nothing in the Torygraph to say that a relative confirmed the IDF line.

Apologies, Mallard…but with a title like that I was sure you’d duck the question again.

You think it ‘unlikely’ he fired the rockets.

And its OK to shoot unarmed civilians in a fenced enclosure once you fire a shot across the bows…shades of the MV Mavi Marmara..or did they get a warning shot?

Not a partisan drop of blue blood in your veins at all, is there?
Its them others are always biased. Bloody rabble, eh, wot?

Telegraph.

The comments from the dead man’s relative were reported by the BBC.

Not approaching the fence in the immediate aftermath of a ceasefire would have been more appropriate too. Heeding the warning shots should also have been more appropriate. The reality of the situation is that Israel takes security very seriously. They’re not known for use of rubber bullets and other non-lethal weapons. There ought to have been no doubt in the minds of the people present that warning shots were very much that and follow up shots wound’t be anything but live rounds.

At another time an argument could be made or doing things differently, but in the early days of a ceasefire after the heaviest fighting in some time it seems off that such events would have been carried out by these people.

Sorry, Damien, but if you’re not interested in discussion without acting the jackass then I’m just not going to engage with you.

‘..takes security seriously..’. hmmm

If a Palestinian shot an Israeli civilian through the fence(which the Israelis erected to exclude Gazans from their native soil) I somehow cannot see you defending it as ‘taking seriously their security’.

Despite the discrepancies between the slaughter rates relative to each side in previous exchanges.

And ‘..these events were carried out by these people..’ is beauuuutiful..like they shot themselves, m’lud?

The prosecution rests. I suggest you tell your handlers to get someone more capable of convincing us peasants of the necessity for this indefensible murder.

If my defence were as asinine as you claim you wouldn’t have I resort to childish name calling to debate them.

This is a serous issue and most propel mange to discuss it with some degree of maturity and civility. Resorting to jibes about the KKK and Nazis is not only unnecessary and offensive but cheapens whatever actual contributions you might have I make in the discussion.

You say Telegraph, I most assuredly say Torygraph.

This:

“They’re not known for use of rubber bullets and other non-lethal weapons.”

is it in a nutshell. They play fast and loose with civilian lives, then spin a neat line in victim blaming whenever their military kills a civilian.

You can bluster all you like on this, but there is simply no way that anyone could, in good conscience, lay blame at the door of unarmed civilian for his having been shot by a soldier, in circumstances where there’s no suggestion that he was involved in an attack on that soldier, or in any way posed an imminent threat.

Your line seems to be that “it’s true that armies should take care to avoid civilian casualties, but here it’s ok because it’s Israel, and … y’know … they’ve had a hard time”. Which is nonsense, utter nonsense. Same rules apply, the soldier involved should be court martialed or tried in a civilian court.

They don’t play hard and fast with civilian lives. They play hard in terms of their security because they have had to since the foundation of the state. Civilian casualties are regrettable but in this case were, given present versions of events, avoidable by leaving the fence alone. In the immediate days following a ceasefire it seems wholly irresponsible for either side on antagonise the other and firing rockets and messing about in restricted areas is most certainly that. In another situation there would surely be mitigating circumstance but here it seems remiss at best to have done what the dead man did at the border in the aftermath of what was very much brink of a war.

As for the ‘foundation of the state’..19th century race theory from Hertzl stoked by Rotschild and filtered through acetone and cordite for the Balfour Act before the Stern Gang and Irgun kicked in…they don’t target civilians??

Neither do the SAS.

I think you should have a read of the Geneva Convention, in particular Articles 2 and 3

“In addition to the provisions which shall be implemented in peace-time, the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High
Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them.”

http://mineaction.org/downloads/Emine%20Policy%20Pages/Geneva%20Conventions/Geneva%20Convention%20IV.pdf

This is the murder of a civilian that we’re talking about here, and you’re trying to justify it by blaming the victim? Even swallowing the Israeli line whole, there’s no suggestion that he posed any threat to IDF forces.

Just for clarity, yet again, Hamas targeting civilians with rockets is equally wrong and in breach of the Convention – you can’t justify one while condemning the other.

Parts of their country is off limits so those poor Israeli soldiers, who are missing their mammies , won’t feel intimidated? The poor things!!

Wow…it’s ironic that you keep mentioning spelling mistakes. If I can give some advice, do a grammar and spelling review of your own comments.

Michelle:
When was the last time a Palestinian killed civilians outside Israel, or Israeli occupied Palestine ??

come to think of it the Palestinian ‘rockets’ haven’t been very effevtive at all
the Zionists have the most efficient weaponry designed for the slaughter of mankind, that the world has ever known.
not to mention their nukes.

Michelle
As I wrote..I’d be more concerned that Netanyahu will provoke a nuclear collision or that my passport is devalued and I might come under suspicion of being an Israeli terrorist because of their arrogant contempt for any form of law other than their fundamentalist biblical interpretation of the world.

Quite a few Israelis are beginning to feel similar reservations I believe.

Mind you, if FG/Labour drag us further into the Nato resource-crusades it might become more likely. I@d imagine the Troika are pressuring as I write..not that FG would baulk..its their shade of Tory blue.

Michelle, have you ever asked why Islamic militants have attacked the US and their allies? Because they are backing the rogue terrorist state of Israel. Also you say Israel never attacked the US, ever hear of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty? they attacked the US vessel in hope of pinning the blame on Egypt and provoking a war between the US and Egypt. Many US servicemen were killed, the Israeli planes even machine-gunned the life boats.

When was the last time a Jew or Israeli killed civilians outside Israel/the Palestinian territories? That is a very interesting question Michaelle, worth a Google

They’ve killed over 1300 people in the Lebanon in 2006. They’ve also killed people in Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Dubai and god knows where else in the last 10 years alone. Sometimes disguised as Irish people! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations#2010s

There may have been many more international killings that they are not boasting about, but its usually just Mooslems and Ayrabs, nothing we should concern ourselves with.