Hear hear.

However, that judge as highly educated and intelligent person (I suppose you need those attributes to become a judge!)

Evidence suggests not.

FYI the most significant determinant for appointments to the bench is political patronage, the Government of the day has carte blance to appoint people as they wish to the bench, although never conducted any anecdotal or elementary research indicates a clear correlation between a persons political involvements and the party who nominates them. Secondly the amount of concealed canvassing that occurs from those who want to be a judge to the party they deem most likely to appoint them is unbelievable, certain lawyers court political parties and it is as calculated as it is inappropriate, any barrister or solicitor with ambitions simply has to have political patronage to progress. A study on this is unlikely such that the findings it would produce, the one positive is that the more senior judges seems to take advantage of their independence so that once appointed they no longer are dependent on the political party and we do not have blatant politiking in our Supreme court as they do in the U.S.

Someone said commenting article about Irish people in Australia and I agree with him: “And people need to get over this paranoia about immigration into Ireland. If someone could explain to me why it has been OK for the Irish to emigrate to other countries over the years but not for people from other countries to come here, I’d love to hear it. Let go of the double standards please!”

You forgot appointed by politicians to suit their own ends. Where is Endas director of elections now??

Judge showed prejudice. Therefore unsuitable for job. Its really very simple, no matter what other nonsense you try and bring into the debate.

Using your argument are you going to stop Irish workers sending money back from the UK or Australia. The judge was clearly bias and wrong and people should question if she’s fit to judge others with such a narrow way of thinking.

No Dave, its not nonsense. Judge said out loud what everyone else knows to be true. The social welfare system is a Joke in this country. If you are that easily offended in this day and age, fair enough.
Yes, the Judge showed poor judgement in what she said, and yes her excuse for why she said it was weak,
maybe she should be suspended, fined, demoted, made donate some money to other sensitive people such as yourself, I don’t know, it’s not for me to decide, nor you. But the fact remains, her comment was an accurate one.

Can nobody stand up for what is right in this country anymore before being berated and people demanding their heads on a Stick? are we so desperate for Justice in this country that we will attack anyone who makes even the slightest mistake, instead of going after the real criminals who ruined this country ?

I’ll Leave it with you Dave, you seem to think things are Simple, so have at it.

Damien, speak for yourself please. You don’t represent me or anyone else.

Look at what the judge said… she said nothing about the social welfare system in general. She attacked Polish people in Ireland. THAT is the problem.

@Mick What in the name of God are you talking about – as per your own definition, the workers in Austrailia and the UK *worked* for, and *earned,* their money, they didn’t receive it off welfare.

Her comment is simply not an accurate one. First of all there are scroungers on the system of all nationalities most are Irish. Secondly a pole that came here worked (usually for very little)after a sufficient period is entitled to the dole upon unemployment. The rules of the EU dictate that we must give other members the same rights as that of our own, it is these same rules that allow for the bailout that funds the dole in the first place. Many poles contribute significantly to Irish society and are generally very well received in this Country, for those that are scroungers what they scrounge is probably alot less than all the pensions paid and to be paid to people who are significantly culpable for the Countries current predicament. Even if the judge believed that are prejudice was just and fair and accurately held which on any analysis of the facts it is is not, she ought to know that the bench is no place for her personal opinions. What she said offended a nationality of people who make a positive contribution to our society and she did so without any justification other than her own misguided prejudice, in doing so she offended the principles on which the rule of law is established and disgraced the Judiciary but she will not resign , an appropriate apology is not forthcoming either. At least the Poles can take comfort in the fact she offended her own reputation alot more than them and any pole would have a good argument for why she should not adjudicate a matter in which they are involved.

@Dennis Laffey ………..what are you on about ? I was Speaking for myself. I never spoke for you or anyone else?

@Cmp. Let me join the dots for you, Damien’s original comment said he wanted to “stop all the money that is leaving the country when we can least afford it”. My simple point being that their is a lot of money coming into Ireland from other countries (as it has for generations). There are plenty of hard “working” non-nationals in Ireland who have “earned” their right over the years to live here and be part of our communities and society. It’s very easy to tar one whole sector of society blindly, but is that just a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Damien,
“Judge said out loud what everyone else knows to be true. The social welfare system is a Joke in this country”
You may think the system is a joke and you’re probably right in many ways but that’s not what the judges remarks were about.
She implied that all Polish people are dole scroungers and that is totally out of order whatever way you dress it up.

Good man, Mick. Unfortunately you seem to have missed quite a few of these dots yourself in your quest for indignation/outrage.

So, to help you out, I’ve posted his full statement below (I’ll also summarise after, for your benefit.)

“Can we not just do something useful and actually fix the social welfare system and stop all the money that is leaving the country when we can least afford it,”

So you see, Mick, he’s actually referring to money from the social welfare system leaving the country – and that was so bloody obvious it leads me to believe that, either you lack reading comprehension or you intentionally posted a straw-man argument, my money’s on comprehension.

@cpm. I know he’s talking about social welfare but lets not forget there are Irish in other countries doing the same especially the uk where they are drawing irish and uk social welfare, hence the pot calling the kettle black. There are people who use an abuse the social welfare systems but it doesn’t come down to labelling individual race as scroungers.

Yet again your reading comprehension has failed you, Mick, and yet again I find myself forced to repost his original statement.

“Can we not just do something useful and actually fix the social welfare system and stop all the money that is leaving the country when we can least afford it,”

No, it’s not the pot calling the kettle black.

He’s talking about cutting back on welfare money leaving the country, you’re somehow comparing it to someone using a country’s welfare system to survive – they’re not the same thing.

He didn’t label any race scroungers, all he suggested doing is a fix to a small part of the welfare system – unfortunately in your rush to be outraged you missed his point completely and went off on an utterly unrelated tangent

I’ve no idea why you keep beating this dead horse. Your initial assessment of, and reply to, his posting was incorrect, let it go.

Nice rant, Adolf

She mad no comment about the welfare system. Stop looking for things where they dont exist.

@cbm. Obviously you like a dog with a bone and I’m the bigger person to say we agree to differ as I respect other peoples opinion even if I don’t agree with it. I find you tone and manner disrespectful/ rude and don’t see any other point to keep playing ping pong with you though the amount of thumbs down you got would seem to indicate not every one see it from your point of view, glad to see there are a lot of open-minded people out there.

“Irish welfare system is a joke” or “Irish justice system is a joke”…Is that Polish people fault?

Can’t have people going around doing good and being reasonable. Begrudgery doesn’t do itself.

What if it was a comment made in reference to Ballymun …

… time had been given to decide on a suitable local Ballymun charity.

“There is – it’s called social welfare,”

Maybe it’s about time the sideline warriors quit knocking people who are trying to do good.

Its about time the racists just came out and admitted their problem and be honest with themselves.

A judge is supposed to be above such displays of prejudice. You’d certainly expect so if she was judging you, wouldnt you? If you were a juror, you’d be questioned as to your suitability. Is madame above that scrutiny??

She is unfit to hold that office and for once someone in this bloody country should do the decent thing and step down.

Caia, careful now not to draw any conclusions from you FAS class. They are not representative of a population. I appreciate the point you are making that not all Poles are scroungers, but you are falling into the same trap as the judge. These are a handful of people drawn from huge populations, and so your experiences of them are probably very limited.

Brendan do you not realise the people flying back are a minority and need to be protected. How dare you highlight this fact

This is already the case, get yourself informed. You need to have paid 260 weeks of PRSI in order to sign on (not just living – actually working and paying taxes)

How many “milkers” could not fly back to sign exactly?

There were a grand total of….3,000 people flying back to claim welfare. 3,000. Out of how many signing on??
Not that they should not be immediately punished of course. Important to state that of course, because allegedly ecpecting a jusge to be impartial means you’re a “do gooder” and a “protect the criminals” type…..

*she

It was a rather empty apology.

It’s hard to see how there could be a context in which it wasn’t an insult.

Her apology was essentially – I’m sorry if you took offence to me implying that polish people are milking the dole – that’s not an apology, it shows a bias and she should do the right thing an step down.

Let’s put it this way if a polish judge made a disparaging comment about Irish people, would you be happy going up in front of that same judge on a serious charge?

For that matter Scarr, how would this one go down:

… time had been given to decide on a suitable Irish charity.

“There is – it’s called the European Financial Stability Facility,”

Or what if a UK sportsman suggested that the Irish were a byword for stupidity on the One Show, you can only imagine the uproar.

Goes to show how petty and biased some of our ”Lawmakers” and ”Protectors” really are.
Coming out with statements like that.
She deserves to lose her job and be heavily fined for that statement.
Justice??

You most be joking, se should resign, and she owes 2 apologies now, one for casting a 100,000 or so residents of this state, the vast majority of whom are hard workers (and net tax contributors), as dole spongers and a 2nd for issuing such a lame as non apology.

Scarr i would expect my legal representative to object to her hearing my case.Thats their job…

I guess it was to teach the person convicted a lesson, even if his racism was misplaced this time.

The judges comments betrayed a discriminatory attitude towards a minority racial group in this country. How can any immigrant group expect fair treatment from her in the future? She has to go.

No Eric. Free speech applies to individuals. As a judge she acts as an instrument of the will of the people (as one who applies our society’s laws), and we have laws against institutionalised prejudice based on nationality, race, creed, gender and sexuality. The remarks she made were made in a courtroom while acting in this regard.

It is a horrendous abuse of the power given to her by the people of this state (via our elected officials) and she should apologise in full and hope that we (the people) decide to accept.

Eric, you should inform yourself of the right of freedom of expression and more importantly the principle of fair procedures, both are enshrined in the Constitution, the important point is fair procedures dictate that a judges right to free speech must be curtailed while on the bench so as to preserve the principle of fair procedures which any one accused of a crime or any act likely to lead to a deprivation of their rights or entitlements is entitled to. To suggest that the Judge has a right to say what they like on the basis of “free speech” is against the princples of justice.

See it suits to bring everything to race, your mothers neighbours should not be looked at as Irish, English, polish or any other nationality. The should be dealt with for been dirty and law breakers and the full force of the law should be applied.

It suits the do gooders to clump them together and call them a minority.

well, if your taking one single example of a people of millions ill put it to you this way.

one drunk irish person equals a nation of alcoholics right ?? no ??

claim down their love; ballymun is full of rats.

You just judged a whole nation based on the acts of three people. That makes you racist.

If I met three murderers who happened to be Irish, would I be right by saying that all Irish are murderers?

You are an idiot.

No Arch your the idiot. If you were to read what i said correctly you would see i was talking about 3 people that use the same rubbish bin. For your information there is 38 polish living around me and i was just pointing out just one thing we have a problem with.
And as for the other stupid comment about the rats, my mothers estate is having a rat problem because of there neighbours dumping rubbish and having there gardens full of rubbish.
And as for the comment about race I was saying i am not racist at all but when you have problems with anyone from any country or anything negitive about people from another country it is deemed as racist you just have to look at alot of other comments before me to see.

lovely photo Lorna

There is a social welfare problem in this country due to the very high unemployment rate. This as nothing to do with any particular immigrant group.

Social welfare fraud ought to be stopped but it is not exclusive to any one nationality and to insult a nationality based on a fraud perpetrated by many nationalites ( mostly Irish) is as offensive as it is inaccurate. This is a classic case of people allowing anger and ignorance to control them rather than seek to alert themselves to the facts before expressing their anger. Anger against social welfare fraud is perfectly acceptable and understandable but one ought to inform themselves sufficiently so as to direct it appropriatley without insulting a nation of people who have responsibility for it. Of course in reality in revealing the extent of their ignorance and willingness to slur someone on their nationality they are really only offending their own reputation,

Quite easy to fix, do what they do in Iceland. If someone is on the dole and sending that money to another country, take the money they are sending away from them as the government believe they dont need it if they can do that. Now,if they are working they have every right to do with their wages what they like

Why are they in court on public order charges?

A small number of them were in court, not the entire community.

@Damocles, I fully agree and I no problem with any of the people who have moved here my problem is with some of our home grown people who insist we treat everyone but the Irish with kid gloves. I’ll be bold to assume you are not Irish but will have no problem saying that your more than welcome as far as I’m concerned. Even though some of the Irish here will justify themselves by saying I’m racist

@Vinny – the minorities in any society must be disproportionately protected because they are weaker than the majority. Look across the globe… it is rarely the majorities that are persecuted. Look at the Irish abroad, they have huge and relatively powerful support groups nearly everywhere, including in Australia, where no doubt they complained strongly against any generalised bias against Irish people.

I’ll be bold to assume you are not Irish
No, as John Cleese said in Silverado, ” As you may have guessed, I am not from these parts.” Obviously I’m not going to mention that in every comment. That would be odd. Great man though Mr Cleese is.

your more than welcome as far as I’m concerned
As long as I work hard, keep my head down, pay my taxes and don’t collect welfare. That seems to be the prevalent attitude. Which doesn’t seem unreasonable unless it’s an attitude that is also applied to your own, at home and abroad. Which invariably it isn’t.

#JustSayin

@Damocles, fairly sweeping racist statement there but I’m sure you couldn’t be racist

Vinny, I’ll admit to bias where it’s due. I’m always open to being proved wrong. However I would say that such an attitude is prevalent among the vociferous, and it’s the vociferous who tend to be heard more often. Obviously.

I mean, you don’t hear much from quiet people.

I’ll add that such an attitude could be applied to people in every Western country. Quite happy to have furriners in if they pay in and don’t take out, quite unhappy when the situation reverses, quite blind to their own citizens living in the reverse situation.

Good man Simon how do you figure that

Denis, that’s the problem individuals who are wronged need to be protected not minorities. Nobody who has posted on here today is a saint and no one would resign their job for a mistake. And the argument that her job is so important is ridiculous. It sorta says a shop assistant can say stuff like that and keep his/her job.

Denis there are no people in Ireland been persecuted full stop.

@damocles, the problem here seems to be that she quantified her apology and didn’t just say sorry full stop. And then you turn around and take a statement I made and feel you are entitled to quantify it. And you go on in a couple of your posts about Westerners! Are some of the eastern European countries not the most racist around?

Vinny, my comment about “work hard, keep my head down, pay my taxes and don’t collect welfare”, was more about a general attitude that seems prevalent, rather than an attitude attributed to yourself in particular. I doubt we can do more than scratch the surface of you in a few short posts (or the surface of anyone, it’s the internet). I’m unlikely to get previous with people in particular on t’internet unless they’re askin’ for it. And I don’t really get the impression you were, were you? Eh?

Are some of the eastern European countries not the most racist around?
I wouldn’t know, I’ve only lived in Western European countries. Don’t the former Warsaw pact countries count as part of the Western world yet?

Well sure point it out any Simo put me in my place and highlight what I can’t obviously see.

Simon, would you be that condescending to Vinny if you were sat opposite him?

Good man Simon, I’ll settle for how you feel you have the right to call me xenophobic and ignorant?

Yet be obnoxious enough to call for the judges job.

I think you’ll find Simon calling someone xenophobic is not as much an opinion as it is a libellous statement.
I’d really like to know how you came to that conclusion and if you feel you know me well enough to think that if I don’t get an explanation as to what you meant you could well find yourself in the same hot water and the judge

@ Simon you have yet to explain how you feel you can call me xenophobic and ignorant on a public forum without any consideration for the damage that been labelled xenophobic could do to me. You may or may not note that The Journal has removed you comment at my request. You still feel the Judge should loose her job but I’ve no doubt you feel you are ENTITLED to your opinion are are free to say what YOU like about people. Unfortunately with the position I hold I am going to have to get this matter sorted as I cannot have people believing I am xenophobic racist or anything else people want to call me without any good reason

@ Simon, dont panic was only pulling your leg. There is not a chance in hell that anything said about me on here by anyone will ever upset me. I only pretended to be upset to prove that when you told Damocles that you wouldn’t change your opinion if you met me face to face that that wasn’t actually true and judging by the fact that unlike Damocles you offered nothin intelligent to the debate I figured it would be easy to change your opinion. With I invariably did

Your apology seems to have been deleted Simon but don’t worry I have it here for you. Now who says I’m not a nice helpful chap

Author: Simon Staunton
Comment:
@vinny healy firstly I would like to apologise if I have offended you. It was not intended. I wrongly came to the assumption that you were defending the judge in this matter. I was not calling you a xenophobe as I have explained in my last post just responding to the statement you made.

I sincerely apologise and agree that I should have made my comment more clearer.

I was also trying remove the comment as I do agree it was unclear as to what I was trying to say, but it was already removed.

Actually Simons apology is everything the do gooders dislike about the judges apology, your not apologising for what you said but for my stupidity in not understanding what you meant RESIGN your job straight away

unlike Damocles you offered nothin intelligent to the debate

Thanks for the implied compliment.

I didn’t offer nothing to the debate. I suppose it had to happen eventually.

@vinny healy Your comments are only proving your ignorance. I apologised for being unclear in my comments not for my opinions. If you want to be a smart arse about it that’s fine, you’re only making a fool of yourself not me.

Simon you are a flute, as soon as you thought you may be in trouble you put you tail between your legs and beg for forgiveness. When you realise that nobody really cares what you say you revert to name calling like a child. I’d love to meet you face to face to be honest but then again

Yeah, what a self righteous bastard I am for expecting a judge to show qualities such as an ability not to discriminate, not to make sweeping statements, and to actually uphold the law of the land.

If expected offialdom to do their job in this country makes you “righteous”, then its no wonder we’re f*cked.

Hahaha yeah sure you would keyboard warrior. I’m in Kildare so come down when ever it suits you. I’d gladly take you up on that empty offer. It’s true what they say ignorance is bliss.

@vinny healy seems you’ve gone all quiet there vinny! My offer still stands. I’m off all weekend so whenever suits you come down to Kildare and you can meet me face to face! Keyboard warrior. What a flute

But it’s not the truth. The social welfare office is the social welfare office, they do not give charity.
How does it feel to be a retard?

Bart… our social welfare system is not necessarily the problem. There are a lot more issues with Irish public finances than the welfare system.
The Scandinavian countries have a far better run system that us but it still provides excellent welfare allowances. They regulate it much more carefully though. I want to live in a society that doesn’t leave its poorer members to rot.

@Denis…to have a scandinavian social protection model in this country you have to first start means testing for social welfare payments…i am not too sure if this is happening in Ireland. And this was said by the IMF that the social welfare system in Ireland needs to be more targeted!!
You can’t blame ‘bloody foreigners’ for having an ineffective control system over social payments. The Government and people you’ve voted for are to blame for what had happened in this country. Amen.

Bart what damage. Are you so disgusted you might leave the country i presume you live here because people living in Poland could’nt care less what some old judge in Ireland said about some irrelevant case in Mayo.If some Polish judge somewhere in Poland said all Irish were drunkards nobody here would care where not so petty.If you are so disgusted and do decide to leave make sure there are no Icelandic Volcano eruptions happening at the time that could be very disrupting to ones schedule dont you think..

@Brend…i am not disgusted coz i don’t really care what she has said…i didn’t even bother to read the article…just read your comments and i’m amazed that you all are so easy to blame other nationalities for the poor social welfare system.
I would agree with the IMF that social payments should be mens tested so nobody could blame Irish, English, Polish or Marsians

One old bitter judge said something stupid calm down .The milking of non events only distracts from the real problems in this country which is the confusion and disilussion of what benefits you actually get for being an Irish citizen.There is none. Being Irish in Ireland has no benefits we may aswell be Polish Latvian Estonian Albanian Lithuanian Kosovon Romanian ..Not many Eastern Europeans like living here its a fact they hate the place my ears hurt from them telling me. Why stay because the welfare system is a charity case and it is been exploited by people who have no alligance or any affection whatsoever for Ireland so the woman all though not been P.C and caring of others over the top sensitivities is calling it for what it is..it is what it is Bart ..

Brend the judge showed her prejudice, in public and on the record. You wouldn’t like to stand before a foreign judge who has shown prejudice describing the Irish as spongers or users. This should be rectified properly before she is allowed to judge again; and if she stands by her views, P45 time as she is not fit to judge.

Ya i agree Gastrophase she said something in the public domain been a public official and if she wants to back it up then she might get her p45 and she probably deserves i ..but what she said is correct the welfare system is a charity case for non nationals..Irish people use it as charity too but as an Irish citizen it is the duty of the government to look after all Irish citizens not hand over money that we dont have to non nationals that only want to be here for the charity and have no intention of staying.Who is going to give us charity when we go bust completley bust can we go somewhere and get huge benefits save all of it and go back to Ireland happy out i think not ..Were a generous country but enough is enough were getting the piss taking out of us from all angles..

That’s true, welfare should be based on contributions not entitlement, and should be tapered as you remain on it. But it’s not right for any judge to blame the faults of the system on any particular nationality or to accuse them of a particular abuse, even if facts confirmed it (here they don’t). She can talk to her TD if she feels so strongly; she has one at home. The courtroom is not for her to pass unrelated snide remarks. She needs to be impartial to work and she’s shown she’s not.

Im no fan of her and im no fan of her blaming the Polish solely for the mass sums of money been taking out of the Irish social welfare what will happen is whats happening already they’l be a massive crackdown on all social welfare due to having nothing in the coffers the foreign nationals will not think it worth it to stay here anymore and they’l be off home with a pocket full of euros..then the aftermath Irish citizens who live in Ireland have homes here are left with nothing an empty purse we’l be told ..do we deserve it we’ve been nothing bit generous top everyone here there and everywhere but if theres nothing left to give then you just got to say no more..eastern european countries are flourishing right now there is work but why work when your getting the same for doing nothing in another’s country who have nothing themselves we owe nothing to them we have to look after ourselves ..why is it the Irish always the Irish

Wow seriously? You again tar 100K polish community with the same brush based on (if ever truth) opinion heard from random bunch of seasonal working fools you’ve met…?

Nick griffin in the house.

You’re right, I shouldn’t generalise. I know and have met a large number of eastern Europeans, mostly Polish, who regard the entire Garda Siochana as dirt and security guards. Now who’s generalising, me or them? I’m not a Garda myself, btw, so I’m not biased in this regard.

Brian Lenehan, ambassador of the Eastern European Sovereign National States, mouthpiece of nations. Lucky for use Brian that we have you to clarify the thinking of those millions of people. How you manage to keep your finger on the pulse with such accuracy and still capture the secret thoughts of the “Eastern Europeans” is amazing.

Or is it just that you saying it makes it true?

Ignorance abounds

We would ya we would’nt be long there before we’d be hunted out of the place..no other country would pay that only our mogs to people who arrive with the hand out ..hunt out the paddy by emmigration it would be alot easier run a country if the population has no ties or mass in it,,

yes, we are Europeans now.Ireland is merely area 22 or whatever number Brussels assigns to us.