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Dublin: 9 °C Wednesday 22 May, 2013

‘No proper system of assessment’ in the civil service

A newspaper report today shows that just nine out of almost 18,000 people in the civil service received poor performance ratings last year.

THE PROCESS OF assessment in the civil service has come under fire today, after it emerged that only nine out of almost 18,000 workers were given the lowest rating last year.

Former TD, minister and leader of Fine Gael Alan Dukes said today that “we don’t have a proper system of assessment in the public service”. He was speaking on RTÉ Radio One’s Marian Finucane show in response to a Sunday Times report.

Mark Tighe reports in the paper that a rating system which was introduced to improve to improve performance is failing. The Sunday Times has learned that only nine civil servants out of 17,728 received the lowest rating possible – one out of five.

Staff who are given two or more out of five are entitled to a pay increase, and those who earn three or more out of five can apply for promotion.

Dukes – who is now the chairman of the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation –  said that “we need a far better system” and said he was concerned about a culture of self-assessment, which he said was equivalent to “no assessment”.

Merit pay

He detailed a scheme of merit pay which was brought in in the civil service a few years ago, whereby those who were deemed to have performed particularly well would be given bonus payments. Dukes said that only in one department was the scheme was implemented “seriously” and a small number of the senior civil servants got merit pay. He said that in all other departments every civil servant received the bonuses, leading to “mutiny” in the one department were the scheme was properly implemented.

The Sunday Times also reports that managers in the civil service do not tackle under-performance, fearing a backlash from unions, while Alan Dukes said it was likely that unions would ‘kick against’ an attempt to reform the method of assessment.

ICTU’s Paul Sweeney said today that he’s not a fan of merit pay, and said it should only be given in exceptional circumstances. He said that it’s important that the public service is efficient and that he believes bonuses should not be given unless they’re deserved.

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Comments (79 Comments)

  • The way it should be:

    ★★★★★ – Strong Merit Pay
    ★★★★ – Less Merit Pay – Eligible for Promotion (not two stars, idiots)
    ★★★ – Little or No Merit Pay
    ★★ – Put under review, don’t improve from two stars and you’re gone
    ★ – Get the fuck out!

    Reply
  • Good suggestion by Dukes, it’s a farce that so few people have gotten the lowest rating. Those with such poor performance should be shown the door. Of course the unions are already against any of this. They don’t even want merit pay like most private sector businesses. :(

    We say this all the time, but seriously, for once, can we place take on the unions!!!

    Reply
  • The problems are cultural as much as systemic, no accountability and a culture of entitlement. It must be very frustrating for those that are good at their jobs when being merely adequate gives entitlement to pay rises and promotion, where’s the motivation to try harder?

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  • @ Sara – do you really believe they are ‘semi’-state org’s? The Irish State retains 97% of one particularly profitable service provider, I have no firm view I imagine perhaps you believe our original ‘private’ health insurer VHI is a private company and not a statutory body, with government procured codes of business which include regulation outside of that of our central bank! Our Public/Civil/Semi-state organisations are not anywhere near the efficiency of our euro partners in a set of instances too plenty to permit isolated cases of finger pointing while others escape examination.
    I don’t dismiss the work of our frontline heroes, I abhor the structural and cultural regimes that order and construct the services these people deliver to the best of their abilities

    Reply
    • Liam the point I was making was that workers in these agencies have not been subjected to the paycuts that we in the public sector have, as the government cannot touch their pay. I am qualified 10 years and work in a very senior position but no longer earn enough to pay my mortgage and bills. Do you think that’s fair?

      Reply
  • Rob 06/11/11 #

    Staff who are given two or more out of five are entitled to a pay increase, and those who earn three or more out of five can apply for promotion.

    Even those that do not meet up to the average or ‘middling’ if you will, can get a pay increase!?! Brilliant!!

    Reply
  • Irish public sector is no better or worse than any other. It’s a monopoly and monopolies don’t need to continually drive change and efficiency in the same way as most private sector firms do to stay in business.

    It just costs too much! Can’t blame staff for accepting pay rises when they’re offered. Sure I would have accepted too. Can’t blame unions for getting the best deal for their members either. The social partnership was a move by the government to keep the peace, without thinking through the consequences. Don’t blame the workers, this was a government failure.

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  • The public service is a joke. We are a civil engineering contractor who does work for the county councils. If a private company was run like public service it would be out of business within a year. Though there are some good people in the councils it’s mainly full of useless incompetent people who couldn’t or wouldn’t survive in the private sector. There is no accountability. You make a mistake you barely get a slap on the wrist where normally you should be fired. Never heard of anyone in the council getting fired for poor performance. This job for life mentality, no matter what I do wrong, needs to change.

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    • While there are many problems with efficiencies in the public sector, you cannot run it like the private sector. In the private sector is all about the bottom line. I review consultants reports for compliance with legislation and scientific standards as part of my job and you’d be surprised how many of these reports are favourable to the clients of the consultants. Any errors or omnissions always seem to benefit the client not “Joe public”. The private sector is about profit not public service. Apples and pears

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    • LesEnfant I do understand what your saying but people want to see value for their taxes. They just feel like they are being ripped off and their money squandered at present when you see reports like this. The public service is seriously bloated in some areas and the sacking of the stragglers will buck up the remaining workers. Nothing like a good firing to frighten your remaining workers.

      Reply
    • I should add that public servants and civil servants are different: pay scales, annual leave, entitlements etc. I’m a public servant, this article is about the civil service.

      Reply
    • Yes family guy I agree with your “value for money” point. There’s a lot of waste out there. It does depend on management. Vast difference between departments.

      Reply
    • Totally agree about you point on management. It’s the trickle down affect. If the boss is incompetent usually the staff under perform.

      Reply
    • AIB, BOI, ANGLO, NATIONWIDE<<< public serice???

      Reply
  • Why is that most of the comments here attacking the performance results have poor spelling and bad grammar? Public and civil service needs major reform. So does a lot of the private sector.

    Reply
  • Is anyone really surprised. All that a person has to is to stay in the job to get increments and promotions. The longer they stay the further up their grade they go. Turn when they reach the top of the grade they more to the next grade. Its about time a private sector company was brought in to audit procedures and work output as there is a large portion of the staff that are overpaid and underpreform. The government don’t want to do this cause it will cause uproar and the unions will hold us all to ransom again. Remember that the unions are responsible for setting the targets for productivity and work output not individual staff members. The unions are the big problem as regards change.

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  • This dies not surprise me one iota, I don’t work in the private sector, but I did up until few years ago, and I’m aghast at what people get away, lazy won’t do attitude (not my job crap), long term sick and I mean long term…stuff you would never get away with in the private sector, I know, I have 30 years experience. Many of them need a large boot up the ass, getting away with murder for far too long!

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  • This is great news! Only 9 out of 18,000 not performing well.

    No wonder the whole Public Service is such a collection of magnificently honed well-oiled machines. Can’t see any scope for improvement.

    Give them all pay rises and jobs for life.

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  • Two is pay increase and three is promotion… What does five get you, keys to the whole country?

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    • @ P Wurple 3 does NOT mean promotion it means you are eligible to apply for promotion IF one arises but seeing as there is a moratorium on promotions there wont be any hope of that for a while. Sick of civil servants bearing the brunt of public anger, if you seen my pay slip maybe you would change your mind.

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    • Lynn 3 is an average score which shouldn’t deserve promotion. Only the best should be promoted

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    • Lynn

      You may well be one of the genuine, hard-working civil servants that we have. No-one is denying that there are a large number of them.

      But you can’t deny the points that people are raising about a culture of entitlement, no cracking of the whip in some areas and, as we now know, no real basis of assessment. Also, not all of our civil servants are like you. Many of them are just out to ride the system and system just lets them.

      You pay taxes too. You should be just as angry.

      Reply
  • Bill 06/11/11 #

    The Chairman of the Black Hole formally known as Anglo commenting on accountability – enough said.

    Reply
  • Oh look it’s turned into a public sector bashing rant. That didn’t take long. Performance assessment is difficult when your work doesn’t directly yield profit. In the absence of the bottom line things get subjective. Keep up your good work private sector wonder kids

    Reply
    • Hi willie! Here we go again!
      Is anybody in this country aware that not all public sector workers receive bonuses & payrises? I qualified as a nurse 10 years ago & in the public sector, there is no such thing as bonuses. You people need to clarify in your own minds the difference between public sector & civil service. And also that most civil servants are on very low pay. It is the select few that you are constantly ranting about.

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    • It’s us private sector wonder kid’s Willy that pays your wages. It galls us to see our taxes being frittered away with poor service and performance. It’s all about value these days and we’re not getting it with our public service.

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    • Public sector can and does earn profits; ESB, Bord Gais, etc, and if you are in a position serving health or education sectors you could substitute EFFICIENCY for ‘profit yields’. I just finished 9 mths in the civil service – the widely held beliefs of tardiness and incompetencies are often under estimated.

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    • Get your facts straight, Liam. Those are semi-state bodies you ate referring to and, as such, the government have no control over pay etc. Unlike gardai, firemen, nurses working in the public sector. There are no bonuses/automatic pay rises. And I would also like to add that, while the private sector “pay our wages” you also expect that if you dial 999 there will be people on the line to take your call and that the emergency service you require will provide the service that you require. We have to be paid too. We have taken massive hit that you in the private sector would never stand for. By all means, cull the dead wood from all sectors to save money. But do not expect the public sector to continue to do what we are trained for if our pay is cut again.

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    • Hi Sara,,,,, one thing for sure is your pay will be cut…. It has to be cut….. Maybe not this December but it will be cut…. And needs to be.

      So do even think about striking…. Just get on with ur job what ever u do. Ok…

      Reply
    • MojoRise 06/11/11 #

      Sorry…. So don’t even think about downing tools…..

      Reply
    • Great comment Mojo Rise. Why should I?

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    • Great comment MojoRise. From your other comments you’re clearly very well-informed…. You also need to identify the difference between public sector and civil service.

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    • MojoRise, that sounded threatening. Who do you think you are to tell me what to do?

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  • 1of 9:
    • Publicly displays initiative
    • Shows efficient use of resources
    • Strong work ethic
    • Zero absentee rate

    Can see why they don’t want these chaps around.
    Something might actually come in on budget AND time!

    Reply
  • Wow family guy, guess what? I pay tax as well. What exactly do you want from the public service? A 24 hour a day personal massage? Get real.

    Reply
  • What is efficiency? Job cuts, shit customer service, shit working conditions, obscene profits for a small few… Oh sorry that’s private sector efficiency.

    Reply
    • Willy never said everything in private sector was perfect but my taxes don’t pay them. If I don’t like the service in private sector I have the choice to take my money elsewhere. Unfortunately don’t have that luxury with public sector.

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    • Blah blah crap….. Civil service / public service workers are in the main Lazy moany righteous overpaid incompetent not my area…. I just transfer u…. Beep beep…. Hang-Up Blah blah

      Regarding esb and Bord Gais…. They make profits cause they screw us in what is still a monopoly really :)

      Reply
    • Seriously! Does anybody know the difference between the civil service and the public sector?! Anybody?!

      Reply
  • It’s all after hotting up since I left the debate!

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  • Maybe family guy….. Maybe…. I get so tired of the morons

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  • Did somebody in the public sector / civil service say they pay tax – the tax payer pays his or her own tax plus they pay these people’ s wages so it means the tax payer pays all their tax also.
    If they introduced a system of no show no pay. It would save a fortune on temp staff and replacement teachers etc. it would be interesting to calculate the actual cost of people taking sick days and their replacements while they ar out. It’s real Irish – don’t feel like going to work to hell with my fellow workers, people in private sector are not as mean to their colleagues or their bosses. Considering the tax payer is their boss it is reasonable that they are answerable to the tax payer who gives them the money to pay their tax.

    Reply
  • You all don’t get it
    We have the best Public sector in the world, that’s why we pay the highest wage rates and give everyone of the outstanding performance reviews, we in Ireland are so lucky, and who know one day the public Sector will actually deliver results…..

    Reply
    • Are you having a laugh Johnny. Nearly fell off my chair when I read your post. The highest wage rates are because of politicians of the boom times handing out money like confetti at budget time just to get re-elected. Paying high wages does not motivate people. Studies have shown that pay rises only motivate people for a small while after the rise and then they fall back to the performance level before the rise.

      Reply
  • The system is theoretically quiet good in that promotion minded staff will endeavour for a good score. Unfortunately it is not administered strictly enough, management need a good arse kicking here. The various headings should also be altered with ‘efficiency’ and ‘care of the public purse’ being top of the score sheet. The manager grading the assessment should have more of his neck on the line when doing it. Any way it all doesnt matter there’ll be no money to pay any of them soon.

    Reply
  • It’s interesting how good neoliberal economics is at dividing people. I can see myself driving a sword into a right wing dingbat very soon. I don’t want this to happen but I won’t be bullied by them. We are slipping into bloodshed in my humble opinion

    Reply
  • Mojo. Go tell someone who gives a sh… Your life is of no interest to me

    Reply
    • Truth hurts willy…. U can’t sack me u plank…. I pay my wages But i also contribute to ur take home pay…. I wish I had a say in who is to be sacked…. U defo be the 1st willy

      I don’t want to be popular person taking cheap shots or controversial either…. but just realistic.

      IMO everones wages or take home pay (bar people on very low income) will be reduced by Decembers budget…. That’s a certainty…. Can u not see that….

      Reply
    • MojoRise 07/11/11 #

      Sara u may well have a degree in English….Spelling and punctuation aren’t so important to me…. I have a degree in life… I’m just an ordinary Irish man…. I love my country. FF have wrecked this great country…. how will we emerge….. I for one think like a lot of people that the banks should not have been bailed out….. If we had of defaulted like Iceland did then we would be a sovereign country and starting to emerge from a very dark period….. Instead we got 10 / 20 years of pain ahead and still we might default….

      Reply
    • Well I agree with you. The banks being bailed out has made life very difficult for a lot of people, myself included. And, no, I have a degree in nursing.

      Reply
  • The biggest fing joke is that most of these wonderful private sector wonder kids don’t pay any tax!

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  • F youse all

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    • Petty response Willy, maybe you should be one that should be shown the door with an attitude like that.

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    • Yep that’s typical of public service workers response you are likely to get when u call Any state department looking for help… Most of them really don’t care bout mr self employed joe soapy… That’s if they actually do answer the phone in the 1st place

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    • Typical response u get from state departments when looking for information…. That’s if they bother answering the phones in the first place…… I realised recently u gotta be able to rely completely on yourself…

      Reply
  • Mojo you are fired! You don’t deserve a job

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    • Listen willy u ass…. I have my own business….Started it from scratch 10 years ago…. Still going strong….. I would like to see u grow a pair of balls and try do that….

      Grow up and try living in the real world….. If u don’t like what ur doing or you don’t like the money just try and start ur own business…..

      I have no safety nets…. i wont get to retire early…. I wont get a large redundancy… No bonuses or pay rises either…. Every cent I make I make it myself….

      I live in real world… U live in a fantasy sweet dreams

      Reply
    • Very aggressive comment Mojo. How about if all of us wasters in the public sector just leave and stop frittering away your money? Then you can put out your own fires, catch your own criminals, sew up your own wounds, teach your own children….because clearly the jobs that we do are completely worthless and unimportant. Good idea?

      Reply
    • Really Sara…. That’s ur opinion. In my opinion I don’t care about ur opinion.

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    • About as much as I care about yours then!

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    • Great comeback Mojo….wish I had thought of that….

      Reply
  • You are a moron mojo mate

    Reply
  • Heil hitler

    Reply
  • Sara. Sleep well

    Reply
  • Mojo. Go have a full on productive week . Your country needs you

    Reply
  • Guuujuuuuuuuuujutgle. Swipe. Next

    Reply
  • You private sector fu*ks don’t really understand about society. It is really important. You will end up staring in disbelief when you disgusting values bring the world to an end

    Reply
  • Gggggg

    Reply

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