And probably repeated

That’s what she said

People most affected by austerity voted No – those about to be affected by austerity voted Yes.

LoL, true!

but you look at other polls on the internet last night and how far ahead the no was, its still quite early in the morning yet. Personally I would love to see No win it, but I have a feeling Yes may win, but it will be close

I think there is a distinction between the demographic who comment on The Journal and those who read it. If the poll was based on the latter I’d expect a clear No vote but the general readership may be more representative of the electorate.

We all know if the result is no they’ll just have another one to try to get the result they want

@Gerard

It also says if the yes camp haven’t succeeded in scaremongering and cajoling the old and vulnerable into voting yes, they’ll call a second referendum.

‘as this vote didn’t represent the true voice of the Irish people’

Swivel eyed gombeens!

Yes, the democratic right to sit on your arse and do nothing and still complain about it. People all over the globe have died for the right to democratic elections. Whatever your views of the shower in the Dail, you should exercise that right.

I think blogger Frank Maguire has identified what is truly the key point in this Poll – yes the people who were not allowed to vote!
Isn’t it high time in this Democracy , that all of those siblings and Irish passport holders should have a voice in the reasons as to why they have had to emigrate in the first place?
The voting can be done in Embassy’s and Consulates abroad and those that really care can at least get the benefit of an ordinary Voting Civil Right from the Country , that forced their emigration!

Most of them, after all , would not have chosen to leave ( @ 8 of our citizens per hour leaving presently apparently) , while most will return, if things economically get better, hopefully?

The Postal Vote can also be used.

It’s about the candle lighting in the window ultimately – hoping that our Children maintain that ambition to return and feel that they will be welcome and feel appreciated in the meantime!

which is well for those that can afford a iphone, ipad and a laptop

Why would one need an iPad,iPhone and a laptop ?

Home, work, work and in that order. First one is technically owned by Harvey Norman/Flexi Rent Sinead. You should try it

So you voted for Bertie against any logical economic sense and now your doing the same with the no vote. People in Ireland care way to much about who they are voting for rather then what are their policies.

Well there are more important things in life..

Now thats a load of crap… we had one consistent supporter of Norris on this site… Most of the Journal polls were actually pretty close to the real thing at the end. But, hey, you can spin all you want, and dis the Journals readership all you want, but i am of the opinion that Journal.ie is fairly reflective of a broad range of opinions etc.
Its only FFg supporters that keep harping on that its a site full of ‘looney lefts and David Norris supporters.

I read an interesting article last night on one of the Reuters releases, and it said that they had engaged with one of the Government reps at the polling stations yesterday. They used the term ‘Nutters’ to describe the No camp in ints entirety, when he was asked about what people would come out in the rain to vote No. If this is the type of constructive engagement you guys have with the public (ie anyone who doesnt support your party’s decisions/strategy etc) then i warn you now, you guys will get a serious kicking at the next election.

I actually find the Journal.ie’s polls interesting, they’re not proper polls carried out by professional pollsters, so they don’t reflect the entire population, but they do reflect the opinions of a certain demographic in Ireland. I thought the difference between the Journal’s polls and the ones printed by daily newspapers during the presidential elections might have reflected the opinions of those more comfortable with current technology than the majority of the country.

Alan, I agree … As i type this, journal.ie is showing almost 50/50 yes no…
If the actual result is extremely close, then we will have an answer, and we can shove it right in the faces of all the FFg/Labour supporters on Journal.ie going forward… otherwise, i may have to eat some humble pie :D

thejournal.ie comments boards are totally out of step with Irish public opinion. A lot of supporters of a certain poltical party attempting a takeover of the boards has caused this.

The problem with polls is geting a signifiglntly large sample of truly random responses. If you stop people on O’Connell st you get people who shop in the city centre. If you stop people outside Tescos you get Tessie shopers. If you use a busy car park you get drivers etc etc. So with out reading the methodology of a survey it is interesting but practicly meaningless. I would jus t like to say thanks to the Journal.ie for their coverage of this referendum, And All the commentors that have contriputed whether I’ve agreed with you or not, It is good to see so many people careing so much about this country and her people.

59% in favour of imposing massive austerity on Ireland for the next 50 Years! Selfish bastards!!!

At least well get to moan and complain when the fools who voted yes see the savage cuts and tax hikes to come.

whats this nonsense about voting for tax hikes etc.. If we’re spending more than we’re taking in in taxes and we cant borrow then we’re going to have austerity whether we get a yes or a no.. Most of these rules are in place in one shape or another.

@luca – that’s some ill-thought out craziness right there.

We’ll see.

Those things are coming regardless, Luca, and to attribute them to this treaty is sheer foolishness. Voting no would not stop them and will not as long as we as a country spend more than we’re taking in.

We simply can’t keep borrowing to run the country, spending cuts will continue and government income will have to be increased until they begin to even out in some manner.

We can fight to reduce the costs of our debt, thus bringing down the expenditure which itself should lead to less cuts and taxes, but this treaty made no difference in that.

It’s tough times but at least try and think things through before getting yourself into a ball of anti-government rage and spouting nonsense to anyone who’ll entertain it, in this case the readers of thejournal.

Nil

There was only two choices [Yes / No] – There should have been a Quick Pick Box.

??? Yes??? ( I hope)
Now we wait for the opportunity to get rid of the terrible wasters in government

Alan! It appears that you don’t think social inequality exists in Ireland! If that truly is your view, then you are seriously mistaken!

Who or that, not whom, yes man.

So just because others don’t get a vote you should squander your??? You’re essentially suggesting you voted yes to save face. Didn’t you read the treaty?? You think The EU is heading the right direction? Statements like these just blow my mind!

“I couldn’t possibly trust trade unions, socialists, anti fine gael types, sinn fein or the deluge of basic communists whom stand on the streets at weekends shouting about social inequality. ”

What about the capitalists?? plenty of capitalists shouting for a no. I find it hard to believe that anyone looking at the current situation and with good knowledge of recent history and the contents of that treaty could in good conscience vote yes.

As if the world cares what we do? Silly.

Please stop using the word “whom” incorrectly!

LMAO let’s trust FF instead .

If you’re solely basing your decision on who’s advising you to do what i sincerely hope you didn’t vote. Make your own decisions by doing a little bit of research. Your vote is going towards the future of this country; it shouldn’t be a contest between political parties like it has become.

Has anyone heard of umbrellas? Yes or No?

@notsoright, if I say no… Will I be asked to vote again?

The ULA were out as much as our resources allowed. We don’t have €1000 a plate fundraisers, dont pay canvassers and people to put up posters or have a state media machine to support our side.

You can blame who you want, Chris, at the end of the day most rational people, including those who aren’t happy with Europe or the government, wouldn’t go near the ULA.

Vacuous rhetoric is seen as such by the majority, thankfully.

@Wolfgang: I guess that’s why the ULA went from not existing to 5 TDs in a few short months and are now polling slightly behind SF as the largest opposition, that SYRIZA (a similar left coalition in Greece) are looking like the next government in Greece, Germany can’t get the Treaty passed along with the Dutch, Hollande wont support as it is (after climbing down from his complete opposition to it.) Rational people are against cuts and the bailing out of casino capitalism across Europe and the world and are rising up against it.

Goodwin’s law! You lose!

Agreed. There was so much potential substance to the no debate that was poorly or not at all utilised by the politicians campaigning for a no. DMcW is one of several such reasonable commentators. Its such a pity the political establishment took the easy option of the populist ”no to austerity” angle. Austerity will happen regardless, but a yes vote enshrines the long term future of the Eurozone to look more and more like a Japanese than Icelandic. It’s a tremendous shame

I voted yes because the bad things that McWilliams talked about are no less likely if there is a no vote. I prefer the outside world to see us as calm logical people who can face reality and is a good ally. The past referendums when we said no and then said yes, made us appear indecisive and a bit silly. We have to keep the head down until we build up some strength. Given the current politicians this will be very slow. The only alternative is a revolution.

I did read it. The article made the argument that borrowing money isn’t the solution (Based on only one notable example. There may also be other relevant examples were borrowing was the solution.).

However, we are not voting on whether to borrow or not. We are voting (mostly) on whether we would like a better deal *if* we do borrow.

For me, the article’s off-topic approach was unconvincing.

This is David “Bank-guarantee” McWilliams we’re on about?!?! The guy who advocated that policy in the first place. Seriously, the guy that “predicted the crash”,…….as going to happen every year for 6 or 7 consecutive years. All he wants is to take a populist tone and sell a few books off the back of it. Nothing against the man personally but he’s not the economic guru people make him out to be. At the end of the day for each economist, be they celebrity or not, that the No camp could trot out, the yes side could find their own. If people asked my opinion of the treaty or what it meant during the campaign, I set them the treaty text (24 pages, not overly technical) and told them to make up their own mind. Economists/Politicians/Political Pundits, all get things wrong at times. Safest bet is to make you’re mind up for yourself. I did however counter and mis-information or blatant lies. Also participated in some enlightened and respectful debate on the merits of the treaty in private.

In short, didn’t get the opportunity to vote as I’m in London. Had I been home. It would have been a yes as I believe the rules in the treaty are good for the fiscal future of the country and those saying it means austerity for decades to come seem to presume that the economy will not return to growth at all (even though the OECD predicts we will this year very modestly and more substantively next year). I hope I’m right………I could be wrong.

Anyone who voted no after reading McWilliams or Krugman were at least making a rationale choice. I wasn’t persuaded but it’s easy to respect anyone who was.

Translation: anyone with an opinion different from my own is an idiot…

You do have a point though – the fact that someone like Pinkie Wallace can get elected to the Dail demonstrates all that is best and worst about democracy…

12 countries are needed to ratify it, not 9

The right to vote is too important to abstain. Yes or No – both are very difficult decisions, however this is our choice. Abstaining means you lost your voice. Just a pity, not a criticism.

Yep, fair point, Stephen. I was really annoyed that I just couldn’t decide. It’s the first vote I’ve ever abstained from in my life. I understand that Voting is a privilege that millions worldwide aren’t given, and so it shouldn’t be wasted, but I can’t vote for either option if I fundamentally don’t agree with them. I couldn’t even choose a “least worse” option.

My thoughts exactly

Or maybe people just saw through the great implications that voting no would end austerity, get rid of the household and water charges and get us a renegotiation on the bank debt?

Maybe people were just a little bit smarter than the ULA and SF thought when designing said campaigns?

Or maybe, just maybe, the anti-government ramblings seen here every day are representative of a tiny minority of bizarrely vocal people?

The actual polls have shown this as going through for weeks. I voted against the treaty but I’m delighted to see that people weren’t so misled by the shallow, insulting campaigns of the “no” side. People fell for the bullshit in the Lisbon referendum and voted against everything but the document, things that had absolutely nothing to do with it, so I’m glad that the bullshit tactics didn’t work this time. I’m even more glad that it eroded these parties funds.

I agree Frank but unfortunately its not possible for everyone to leave, most of us will have to stay and suck it up!

Voting “yes” = More hardship
Voting “no” = More hardship

If the proposal read “Do you want more hardship”, then you would have had a point.

@CS
Yes = more hardship for decades
No = more hardship for a couple of years and then we move on. The Euro is as good as gone, to save it there will have to be about €2.900,000,000,000 printed and that = Inflation like the Germans know best from Weinmar 1923. Good luck with that one!

Voting yes or no had nothing to do with the treaty. That’s for elections
You just dont get it do you

What I meant was voting yes or no has nothing to do with getting rid of the government. ( just finished night shift)
Do you really think the gov would see a no vote and run home to their mammies?

And you accuse the government of scaremongering….
Hypocrisy? On thejournal.ie?! I don’t belieeeeeve it!

I’m not scarmongering im just stating a FACT !

Facts or a rehashed political threat from your FG masters?

@Dermot, we’ll know later today – it doesn’t really matter what I think – the sad thing is that so many people didn’t think it important! and by the way, I didn’t vote for either FG or Labour at the election!!

if politicians really cared about being responsible for our money they would of done it long before now, does it not strike you as a bit odd that they havent been careful with our money yet now they are asking us to vote yes for this? seems a bit fishy to me, government shouldnt need something in the constitution to tell them to be careful with our money, if they cared they would have already been careful, all they care about is doing what the EU ask of them

The FG argument is only a yes vote will stop them breaching the salary cap to pay themselves, friends and cronies ill deserved wages out of the public purse……….laughable.

My closest polling station is 5 miles away, but we give our neighbours a lift if they don’t have a car.
I wouldn’t expect there to be a station in every individual little village and townland.

@James, if I lived rurally I’d agree with you, but I live in a huge housing estate in south county Dublin!

They have yet to count?! Do I really need to point that out. The votes haven’t been counted. ?! How can you be do sure of yourself?!

The boxes are STILL closed you idiot!

Ah there’s the good aul smarmy arrogance of the gov right there

Jaysis, talk about the point sailing right over people’s heads.

Doing your intelligence a bit of disservice with the above comments lads.

so all the exit polls all over the internet all day yesterday and last night that clearly showed a no vote are wrong, yet the one poll opened early in the morning and only opened a few hours is clearly right because it shows the yes vote that you want….yeah sounds like something the yes side would use as logic

Hey Sinead, who won? I guess that “one poll” was right huh?

Unfortunately, the only Upstairs, Downstairs is the period drama that used to be on British TV. They should be made to suffer in the here and now. If there were any ‘real’ justice FF would no longer exist, for no matter how much Martin tries to rebrand, they are still the same shower that supported Haughey, Ahern and Cowen and the corruption and greed and ineptitude that went with them. Enda’s insipid FF-lite and their two-faced labour cohorts are little better than Euro lapdogs who will happily wag their tails when requested by Germany (in complete contradiction to their pre-election promises). They are only in power due to a massive anti-FF protest vote and the various lies they spouted. I voted NO, for what it is worth, as I hate being lied to and threatened.

Make no mistake, we have massive austerity for years to come whichever way this goes.

By the way, Jackie, I did agree with virtually everything you said.

All together now:
“Oh the sun will come out tomorrow, so ya gotta hang on to tomorrow, come what may…..”

Until yesterday I would have agreed with you, but the vote was like asking if you want a punch in the face or a kick in the nuts.

Disgust is a strong word, Ciara. I went to the polling station but couldn’t vote either way in good conscience. I said to myself I would go back later, but I just couldn’t find a compelling reason to vote either way in the end.

I think that “Voter apathy” gets more notice than “Spoiled votes”. Spoiled votes could possibly be written off as ‘messers’, but people who can’t even be persuaded to vote should cause alarm bells to ring for the political parties and force them to be more engaging.

its nothing to do with what gets noticed its nothing to do with what is being decided. its your duty, you do not get called to war in this country you are not required to do anything other than jury duty and vote. people who chose not to vote disgust me. simple as, if you can’t chose then spoil it, but at least f*****g use it

Fair enough Ciara you are entitled to use whatever words you like, but I reckon you’ll win more people over to your point of view by reasonable argument than you will by spitting contempt at them about how they “Disgust” you. You might even learn what makes them tick.

If people who don’t vote disgust you, I can’t imagine how you react to child murders and rapists. If you set the bar that low, then it devalues the word when you really mean it.

Have a lovely afternoon.

You should check out Sli Nios Fearr ( Martin Critten ) The Journal did a piece on him a few weeks ago

So you used your own personal hatred of an established political party in Ireland to vote yes on something a foreign country and government designed for us and demanded a yes vote?

No wonder the country is in such a state and with people like you around this country will be in some state for centuries to come..

Dermot, an equal or greater amount voted against this to express their anti-government sentiment and nothing more, so let’s not go making grand, tabloid-esque generalisations before doing a quick tally on the amount of “I’m voting no cause I hate enda” crap there is on this very site vs “I’m voting yes cause I hate Garry” sentiment, because you’ll find that the former greatly outweigh the latter.

Throw in the spurious other reasons people voted no and you have a not so bright looking collective of people. Keep in mind, I voted against treaty but the behaviour of the “no” brigade here and elsewhere is appalling.

Excuse me wolfgang..(if that is your real name?)

Where have I made generalisations?
Was it me countering Neils blatant admission that he voted yes because SF were urging a no vote…? hardly a generalisation, maybe you could oblige me by highlighting where i made an assumption that people only voted a certain way becasue a party was urging the opposite.

No reply just a red thumb…..typical.

Somehow I doubt if there will be a re-run given the result. Maybe, though, it might be an idea and if the reuslt of the re-run is “No” then we could a re-run of the re-run, and if that says “yes” then we………………………

So he spoiled his vote? Good for him?

The ballots are flicked through extremely quickly, anything with the exception of an X goes into the spoiled pile and isn’t looked at again,so I guess he only wasted his own time in doing so?

The government were driving people to go out and vote yesterday, so I take it you did the opposite and abstained?

Or is your “logic” subject to you picking and choosing what suits you? How cliche if so.