TheJournal.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more »
Dublin: 16 °C Sunday 19 May, 2013
Trending:
RSS

Tags

See other tags

Tags

Poll: Has the recession improved Ireland’s work ethic?

A retailer’s Read Me today says the struggle to find jobs has made people more appreciative to have them. Do you agree?

19/08/12 9,226 Views 93 Comments
Image: Mark Stedman/Photocall Ireland

IN OUR READ ME today, retailer James Keogh argues that though the recession has had plenty of ill-effects on Ireland, it’s also made young Irish people more appreciative work.

Keogh, who employs 55 people on the Carlow-Wicklow border, writes that his staff used to come into work late and sometimes hungover – because they always felt that jobs were plentiful and if they lost one, they could get another.

Now, he says, younger staff are “twice as keen to work, punctual in the extreme and really care about their jobs and the customers” – particularly because they know they can’t live off their parents if they’re out of work.

We’re wondering if you’ve had similar experiences – or whether, in general, you believe people in Ireland still take their jobs and their duties for granted.

So – has the recession improved Ireland’s work ethic?


Poll Results:





Column: Recession has had a positive impact on Tiger cubs’ work ethic

About the author:

Gavan Reilly
@gavreilly
gavan@thejournal.ie

Contribute to this story:

Leave a Comment
Send a Photo / Video
Send a Tip
Send a Correction

Read next:

Comments (93 Comments)

Ordered By: Popularity
Leave a comment
  • mart_n 19/08/12 #

    God, I hate the term ‘work ethic’. I work because I want to survive and surround myself with material comforts. It’s a purely selfish thing. If I could quit my job tomorrow and still live in relative comfort then whatever semblance of a ‘work ethic’ I have would quickly disappear.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Gis Bayertz 19/08/12 #

      mart_n, you are so right!

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Graham Mace 19/08/12 #

      We are civilised. So we are told. The Kalahari bush people, it is widely believed, work about 16 hours a week at most to provide all their requirements. Can’t help thinking that sounds a lot more civilised to me.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Eleen 19/08/12 #

      For some reason, we produce way more stuff than any generation before us, have the technology to make machines do a lot of our work for us, and we’re working LONGER hours than before.

      Go figure.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Cornelius Castoriadis 20/08/12 #

      John Maynard Keynes imagined a 15 hour work week by the start of the 21st century, due to technological advances. What he overlooked and what Marx pointed out is that capitalism always uses technological advances to increase workloads. Technology under capitalism will always be justified to increase workloads on workers in order to increase profit. The goal is always more profit, never expect employers to be happy with the same amount of work that you were doing before they upgraded the means of production. What is happening in Ireland in this recession/depression is twofold. Due to a surplus amount of labour, wages are dropping and people fear losing their jobs. So they are willing to work more for less. This is what is meant by a better work ethic. Business owners and employers are finding their wage slaves easy to manage.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • Nellysroom 19/08/12 #

    Its certainly made people more afraid of losing their job, made them feel that they have to do unpaid overtime and allowed ruthless managers to abuse their position and to get away with being vindictive .

    By improving work ethic you man people are afraid of losing their job or some other type if retribution then yes “work ethic” has improved .

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Graham Mace 19/08/12 #

    If you’re an employer, what you get from people often depends on nothing more or less than the way you treat them as employees.
    An employee can never do enough for a good boss. If they are valued they are motivated. Of course wage rates will have an influence, but it is not unknown for staff to stay at a lesser paid firm rather than risk working for one reputed to have poor conditions or an unpleasant management. And word gets around.
    There’s never been anything wrong with the Irish work ethic when the job is satisfactory.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Ben Moore 19/08/12 #

    It may have improved the work ethic of those already in employment, but for those unfortunately not in employment, looking for a job is no longer a new and exciting experience, but a wave of demoralising rejection.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • ladyluck 19/08/12 #

    carmel, not all young people have mammy and daddy to run to. in fact i know of some young people helping parents who have lost jobs etc. i know one young man putting his younger sister through college as the family are having tough financial times. so please,dont generalize.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Carmel Corrigan 19/08/12 #

      Im writing from my experiences…..and I’ve had a lot of them. Thank god now I have great staff, 80% of them are not Irish, a pleasure to work with.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Orly 19/08/12 #

      You are quite obviously a nasty, asinine individual and I wish nothing but misfortune upon you. Your ignorant generalizations show that you are an incredibly poor judge of character in the first instance to employ the minority of people who are only taking the mick. My generation are suffering horribly while smug yuppies like you who have made it are enjoying watching us fight for labour. Like I said before, I hope something horrible befalls you so you have to ask for help. Likely it will if you continue on the way you’re going.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Ann Reddin 19/08/12 #

      @ Carmel

      So tell me did you employ foreign nationals because they work for buttons and are willing to do overtime for free. NO doubt when you say jump you expect them to ask you how high?? I also find it hard to believe that any decent employer would rather hand jobs to foreign nationals rather than to his fellow countrymen. You have already been asked what your business is and directed the commentator to FAS!!! I suggest that it is all in your head and you do not own a business or employ people!

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Paul Smith 19/08/12 #

      70% off them probably getting social under a different alias too due to you probably paying less than minimum wage….I would love to know what jobs you have advertised on FAS as the vast majority are internships,

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Simone Gahan 19/08/12 #

      Carmel reading your comments.. I wouldn’t work for you no matter what you pay!!.. I pity your employees, you have a horrible attitude, full of self importance and no respect!!! And if foreigners are so much better employees than your fellow Irish maybe you should set up business elsewhere away from ireland!

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Mark 19/08/12 #

      I’m sure your hard working Irish customers would be delighted to read that Carmel.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • siobeli 19/08/12 #

    I think work ethic is to do with an individuals own drive and motivation, which does not change regardless of a good or bad economy. In the “good times” someone could have been a CEO and worked hard, and now work in a take away and work equally as hard.
    As someone who works with young people I can def see this diff in work ethic, whereby some young people will work at any job at any wage, while others feel entitled to a top job without qualifications or work experience and feel the employer owes them a favour.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Tom Newell 19/08/12 #

    people whinged and finger pointed at the irish during the boom as spoiled brats cos they wanted the jobs that gave the best pay and conditions and didn’t wanna take the lower end work, yet we had close to full employment in ireland bar 100,000 or so on the dole that people seem to have forgotten were left there to sponge as it were by those in power. There was plenty of hard working irish during the boom and thats not changed, yes like everything else we had a few donkeys and wasters but the majority were working full time. The problem is now just because people who may have families that are young and require child care and with soaring fuel costs have to look at whether its viable for them to take full time employment or just work for the sake of paying unfair taxes and charges as well as huge fuel and care bills, these are now being accused of snobbery for turning down work. No one in Ireland now is turning away jobs, you look at any major jobs announcements and people in there hundreds are applying, what the issue is here is yes we have a few who are using the recession as an excuse not to work but we also have employers and employer groups using the recession as a reason to force cheaper wages, less working rights etc.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Creamy Hamstrings 19/08/12 #

    I dont think so. Personally I work a 2 or 3 day week depending on workload. However, the nature of the job and the people I deal with means that I generally spread this over 4-5 days most weeks. As a result I usually head in about 11 or 12ish and come home whenever (3 or 4pm). I’ll be totally honest and admit that this has made me lazy and lose a lot of interest in my job, which i used to love up until 2009.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Colum Maher 19/08/12 #

    I really think that this is quite an unfair question. Irish people have always had a strong work ethic, all we need to do is look back to 100 years or so when we were emigrating all over the world bringing those morals with us wherever we went. The question should be “Is the recession making Irish people care for their jobs more because they no longer have certain guarantee’s that they had 5 or 6 years ago?”

    We can say what we like about employers being unfair, however the reality is that if we were in the employers shoes we would probably be doing the exact same thing. The simple fact of the matter is that people regardless if they are Irish or not, work because they want money. It doesn’t matter if it’s to be able to put your kids through school and pay your mortgage or be able to go out taking drugs and drinking every night of the week, all these things cost money.

    So I don’t think that the Irish work ethic has improved as it was already very strong to begin with. Do I think that more people are worried about their long term career prospects coupled with fear of financial instability? Then, Yes, I do think more people are worried about their long term financial future.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Daithi 19/08/12 #

    Young people still come in hungover and late! It hasn’t changed a thing except the Names on the CV’s have a more Irish flare about them, as they realise they have to get a job instead of spounging of off Mum & Dad.

    The real issue lies with the companies who now hold the fact that we are in a recession and jobs a few and far between, as a rod to beat thwarted staff with!

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Martin Smith 19/08/12 #

    while the article is one employers experience the same cannot be said of the public service…i work for a private sector company that is service provider to the healthcare sector and it is only when you see at first hand the pure laziness that is evident behind the scenes that you realise how insulated some levels of the public sector are to the meaning of the word work…tea at ten,followed by lunch at 12,tea at three, time spent on the phone to friends or gossiping,working practices that would not be entertained in the private sector….i am not knocking the front line staff at all as they are seen to work but within the healthcare sector there are layers and layers of individuals that provide no added value to the sevice…for example a manager responsible for one employee,what happened to redeployment and value for money

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Paul Smith 19/08/12 #

    Yes with the private sector,probably no within certain depts in the public sector…….

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Alex Carter 19/08/12 #

      Developmental Psychology tell us that during a crises, human beings retreat to a lower level of human functioning and consciousness. i.e ‘hurtfull behaviours’…Look to the harmfull choices working politicians have made on behalf of their citizens during this economic crises.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Rory Conway 19/08/12 #

      “Civil ” Servants ?

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Graham Mace 19/08/12 #

      @rory – It’s perhaps a bit too fashionable to knock civil servants. All I can say, from my own experience, is that civil servants who I have had dealings with in Ireland have been a total contrast to the ones when I was in England 15 years ago. Those really did earn the sobriquet “civil serpents”. By comparison they’re saints here.

      (with the notable exception of co. council planning) :)

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • Arleen Heffernan 19/08/12 #

    In my experience, Irish people were always hard-working but the recession has certainly improved the attitude of retailers!

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Brian Rochford 19/08/12 #

    I voted no because I beleive the Irish work ethic is good irrespective of the economic back drop. Gavin I too find fault with the poll question as I beleive the question contains the ( your ) answer or at the very least implies that you beleive we are here moochers and slackers . I dont beleive that for a second.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Oonagh Donnelly 19/08/12 #

    The article does seem to insinuate something negative about the Irish as a worker. Whatever about our racism towards ourselves. Abroad we have a reputation to work like loons. However What we have now is a system were a lot of skilled experienced extremely eager to work professionals are working as interns. Also we are working longer hours for less than what used to be a basic wage. Experience and qualifications matter less in salary rates. A lot of us feel good if we can scrape together some kind of penny that has to be stretched like the loaves and fishes. Taking a holiday is not am option for many. Fairness for the worker is less a priority at this time. People working for free too just work for the sake of working or to sepojects that help generate employment. Being to the dole is not actually a popular preference.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Gis Bayertz 19/08/12 #

    Typical statement if somebody having a bit of extra power over workers

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Aisling O'Toole 19/08/12 #

    Yes in the majority however there’s always some who don’t seem to be able to function in the real world

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Eric Davies 19/08/12 #

    has the irish work ethic changed? certainly not in the case of our local council, there still a lazy ,useless, inefficient bunch of self important “nobody’s responsible for anything” attitude gombeens.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Graham Mace 19/08/12 #

    Stick to the cheapo dumb-ass phone, you won’t need to work such long hours to pay for it. LOL
    A lot of the motivation for ridiculous long hours and ever increasing drive to get money is because we have become slaves to consumerism. Some extras are nice, but a lot of money is spent on non-essentials.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Oonagh Donnelly 19/08/12 #

      Grraham, ya gas fella! I haven’t actually divulged personal info such as work hours or rates as such. Long hours may be good for the consumer addict if they get paid overtime to keep buying status symbols, iphones and ipads every few months or new handbags and things. However long hours for many does not get paid for. The long hours going into the evening and weekends are done to hold on to a job that’s really for more than one person. Also working around the clock for many, just about puts kids through school, food, bills along with still falling behind facing money pressures. If there has been an improvement in the work ethic, that could be considered an understatement.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • Nitin Gautam 19/08/12 #

    All if not most of irish seems bitter as working hard s not in their blood,They dont wish evening work or weekend work or mininum wage job as govt pays enough to feed pub & socialising with dole money.Foreign nationals come here to work & irish thinks they work for less money.At the same time most of irish travel to north or cheap lidl for shopping.??? Ethics??? Morality??? All questionable guys. I think carmel is absolutely right with her comments as she pays a lot of tax etc which pays for dole,so who wishes her misfortune must b thinking of starving of hunger. Shame recession hasnt improved irish working attitude yet. How about if govt stops dole money and start giving people food instead of money,I say a lot of unemployed will jump to work even higher than foreign nationals

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Mark 20/08/12 #

      Before they do that will you please make sure the jobs are there first..

      I’m not Eddie Hobbs but I’m sure if you took the 400,000 people’s dole money out of the economy then it would suffer more.

      Lazy workers are every where, no matter what the country and to hire people based on nationality, I’m pretty sure is illegal and classed as discrimination.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Nitin Gautam 20/08/12 #

      @Mark If taking money as dole out makes people more responsible then let be it, who needs eddie hobbs, we make these people, lets go back when ireland was agricultural base economy, foreign nationals didnt bring it down, they helped celtic tiger roar louder. But now s the time for irish to show attitude but they cant as they are weak in work culture ethics & attitude, so may be as somebody said earlier “penny hasnt dropped yet for irish”

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • UnderTheRadar 19/08/12 #

    Silly question to be honest. I’d expect more from you Gavan. Has the recession improved our work ethic? I wasn’t under the impression that our work ethic had been called into question. We had more or less 100% employment during the boom – that doesn’t sound to me like a country where people are afraid of work.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Gavan Reilly 19/08/12 #

      @UnderTheRadar: Sorry you feel that way. Perhaps I didn’t illustrate it very well but to be fair, I don’t think you can necessarily equate zero unemployment with good work ethic – if anything it could be the converse, because if work is plentiful, people have less incentive to feel pride, loyalty or dedication to the jobs they already have. This is what I was hoping to get at: whether this is a feeling that readers believe to have waned in the last few years.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • UnderTheRadar 19/08/12 #

      Jeez gawd forgive me for challenging the writer of this article. Keep forgetting – we must not challenge those in authority. And we wonder why we continue to be led up the garden path. Grow the hell up Ireland.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Little Jim 19/08/12 #

      You think Gavin is in charge of things?! Just trying to earn a crust like the rest of us, grow up yourself!

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • UnderTheRadar 19/08/12 #

      Little Jim. Gavan wrote the article and posed the question, therefore he has a certain amount of authority on this thread. Cop on to yourself if you ever want to be called Big Jim.

      And Gavan I meant no offense to you personally. I usually enjoy your articles and I suppose it is Sunday :)

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Dave Harris 19/08/12 #

      Gavan
      Who the hell knows whether the employed people of Ireland’s work ethic has changed – how would you quantify that without knowing all of the employed people of Ireland. How can James Keogh comment on the whole of Ireland? Sure his little corner may have changed, but how can he comment on the rest of Ireland?
      He is just generalising.
      And the only thing you can generalise about is people who generalise are generally idiots.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Gavan Reilly 19/08/12 #

      @Dave – I don’t mean to sound glib, but the poll is only asking people to share or recount their personal experiences of whether people take their jobs more seriously. The whole point of doing a poll is to get a general (albeit vague, but we don’t ever claim our polls are scientific) picture of what the public thinks, and to act as a sounding board to kick off some discussion.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Dave Harris 19/08/12 #

      its lazy journalism is what it is Gavan

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • Stephen Church 19/08/12 #

    for those who have jobs perhaps, but for a lot of lazy people or those with arts degrees who think retail / supermarket jobs are ‘below’ them its given them a great crutch of ‘why dont you have a job’ ‘ahh sure there is no jobs’ just because they havent tried or looked hard enough to find one.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Abbie McGowan 19/08/12 #

      Wow. Some people with an Arts degree put it to good use! Don’t tar us all with the same brush!

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Eleen 19/08/12 #

      That hurt my feelings.

      I really haven’t seen many young Irish people thinking that jobs are beneath them. Nearly everyone in my age group that I know have been working in pubs and bookies and retail since they started college (way back in 2007). Doing weekends and summer jobs up to the last year of college and some still are working through their masters. Now, to tell you the truth, before I started college I looked for work and was told by my parents, teachers and people interviewing me for work that I “deserve better and should go to college because you’d be wasted here”. It wasn’t the young tiger cubs that got this idea put in their heads that some work is beneath them.

      I’ve been turned down for many a job because of this reasoning.

      Granted, there are people out there who are spoiled and don’t think they deserve anything less than the best, but I’ve seen plenty of them in all sorts of age groups and social circles.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Pádraic O'Callanáin 20/08/12 #

      At Stephen Church

      So what’s wrong with an Arts degree Stephen? I worked in many a supermarket, building site and factory in my when I was younger, but made the decision to emigrate and using my Arts degree to land a sweet job in a warm sunny foreign climate. If people acquire skills, genuine skills and are realistic in their expectations of landing a skilled job, yeah by all means work short term in supermarkets/retail etc. to make ends meet, but I don’t think that it is in anyways ‘lazy’ for them to want a better job, or to actively seek one. It’s called ambition.

      What did you study? Happy to spend your life in the ‘peas and beans’ aisle of Tesco stacking and facing off green giant sweetcorn, knowing you could be doing something more with your newly acquired skills?

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • David Ruttle 19/08/12 #

    I agree wholeheartedly with Carmel. I run a business in cork and would employ foreign nationals ten times over hiring an Irish worker. I’m Irish and proud , well i used to be. I have given up on hiring Irish workers and would shy away from even offering a trial work period which I used to. The Irish come late to work , are not well presented , hungover , not interested in work or have no interest in customer service. I hate to generalise but from my experience 90 per cent of Irish I have hired I have fired this year ! Almost all foreign nationals I have hired still work for me! They still pay taxes to the state……. Tell me I’m wrong!

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Carmel Corrigan 19/08/12 #

      It’s just a nightmare to get good staff. Last Irish person I had work for me came to work drunk, and started to drink during service. I would love to have Irish staff and I have tried, but they are not reliable. Nightclubs and hangovers…… I to have had enough of Irish staff. Will never hire them again. All my staff get paid more than min wage and pay their tax. As I said in my first comment, the penny hasn’t dropped yet. Thanks for the support.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Colum Maher 20/08/12 #

      I’m sorry to be getting on your case about this stuff Carmel, but am I right in saying that your not an equal opportunities employer? “I to have had enough of Irish staff. Will never hire them again.”

      I’ve heard a lot of Irish people generalize foreign nationals during the recession, but I’m absolutely flabbergasted that an Irish person who claims to be an employer would generalize their own people. As I said if this is the type of employees that are applying for the positions through the FAS website then maybe you need to change your recruitment strategy.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Carmel Corrigan 20/08/12 #

      Colum, I’m sorry but u really have no idea what it’s like been an employer. You think running your own business is easy, everyone is priority before the employer and his/ her family, suppliers and staff have to be paid first. You need customers to come in through your door, you have to make sure that they get great service so that they come back and better still so that they leave happy and talk about you to others. Having hungover staff dressed in grubby cloths and no knowledge of the job doesn’t help, and I’m sorry but 100% I can say it was never a foreigner that was like that. The Irish that are applying for the job come from very well respected backgrounds and family, but 1 they are not interested in the job, think they can show up and do as little as possible, call in sick on a Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon….it’s the same story, time after time after time. At some point you have to say to yourself, enough is enough, y am I wasting my time, money energy and bad service to my customers, cut my losses and look into other cv’s. Believe me when I opened my business I was on ly going to have Irish staff, local Irish staff but if I didn’t change my attitude and employ foreigners I wouldn’t have a business to day, sad but simple fact.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • Neal Walsh 19/08/12 #

    There will always be lazy, selfish workers who don’t pull their weight and leave others to take the load in their stead however, for those who didn’t 100% in the past there is certainly a higher incentive now and I’ve no doubt that they do give that little bit extra.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Oonagh Donnelly 19/08/12 #

    Phone just crashed so was not able to get sepprojects or to the dole edited. Set up projects and on the dole is the corrections. Its a smart ass phone.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Nitin Gautam 20/08/12 #

    @Colum Maher
    When i came to this country i did hard work, paid taxes, & i earned it. When i didnt had it i made it work, i survived. I didnt leave my homeland to give up wether it was ireland or NZ, we were welcomed with open arms as this country needed it,40,000 work permits were issued every year. Irish history is intact & i do proud it when i see irishmen acting accordingly, when times are tough here rather than acting better work force is so laid back because of dole cushion. I dont wish to take away from irish generation which made this country better but this yourh nowadays is just not responsible enough wether any recession or not. Attitude to work & Ethics to wirk come from inside not from poll or any discussion. You as Irish work force have to ask yourselve what have you done to make it better for ireland? Nothing, rather than complaining or blame game
    E
    Th

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Colum Maher 20/08/12 #

      Nitin, I really don’t understand the point you are trying to make because you say on one hand that the youth are not responsible but then say that the Irish workforce as a whole have no attitude towards work and ethics. Would you say the same to an Irish man who gets up at 5 in the morning to go out delivering milk or an Irish nurse who is having to work split shifts just to make ends meet?

      I agree that the youth of Ireland know little or no responsibility and I am not defending them when I say, how can they know this when they see a bleak future ahead of them. As human beings, not just as a particular race of people, we would like to feel that we have progression in our lives and would like to have the opportunities to progress career wise. Unfortunately this progression is no longer a given when it comes to working in this country.

      Young people feel this more than most as they are only at the beginning of their lives and when they spend three or four years in university studying just to be told at the end of it, that it was all for nothing of coarse they will become disillusioned this would be the same in every country regardless.

      I have worked most of my adult life and I am now in a situation now where I apply for jobs, I’m lucky if I get a reply informing me that my application has been unsuccessful. I really have to take exception to your comment about the “dole cushion” because believe me if I was given the chance to work, I would gladly take it and given the person that I am I would make damn sure that I done my job well as I have done with every job I have ever done! I’m a positive that any Irish person bar a few would do the exact same!

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • Carmel Corrigan 19/08/12 #

    Young ppl have no respect for their jobs, cos mammy and daddy will look after them anyway. As an employer I find it very hard to get staff, they don’t want to do the job, don’t want to work weekends ect. A lot of Irish ppl asking if they can get paid cash so they can keep their social welfare. The penny hasn’t dropped yet in Ireland.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Paddy BeBop 19/08/12 #

      I say you are a delightful boss/slave driver from the tone of your comment…

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Colum Maher 19/08/12 #

      How much are you paying per hour. I’m on social welfare and would jump at the chance of any job in the Dublin area? I also don’t have mammy and daddy supporting me and usually have roughly 20 or 30 Euro left once I’ve got all my bills out of the way. If you could offer me something marginally better than that then I would gladly take it. Where did you say you advertised all these jobs?

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Carmel Corrigan 19/08/12 #

      Colum the jobs are advertised on fas.ie. waiting job, kp job, cleaner job, manager job…..you name it. Have a lot of friends in the same business with the same issues so check out http://www.fas.ie they have 1,000 of jobs on the site

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Paddy BeBop 19/08/12 #

      All capitalists only care about the bottom line – profit.

      Humans are just discardable monkeys there to make you more € so you can you have your fancy holidays abroad and shopping trips. The tone of your comments show that you believe this.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Gis Bayertz 19/08/12 #

      @Carmel, what an ignorant comment

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Gis Bayertz 19/08/12 #

      Well said, Paddy

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Adrian quinn 19/08/12 #

      Sorry Carmel I have to reply to paddy bebop through your comment becaucse the cowardly wannabe commy wont let people reply to his comments. Paddy; when did a waiter, dishwasher or any service based employee ever get paid overtime? This woman is providing a service, ( which you, i doubt not, have used at some stage) and giving employment to those who dont see doing a job to make the rent as beneath them. Whats wrong with her opinion? I live in the states where there are no safety nets and any Irishperson that needs to eat, drink or clothe themselves will work at whatever to make ends meet and there is no judgement among us. I’ m done with that kip of a country I love so well. Good riddance to the lot of you.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Colum Maher 20/08/12 #

      Carmel, I know there are plenty of jobs advertised on FAS.ie. Being that I’m unemployed it’s not like I would be unfamiliar with that particular website or any other jobs website for that matter. The fact that you advertise on the FAS website and not an actual proper website such as Jobs.ie or Irishjobs.ie seems rather suspect.. Also you didn’t actually answer my question on how much you are paying per hour so I’m going to go ahead and assume that you are taking advantage of the current situation by hiring people on CE and back-to-work schemes (If I’m wrong I do apologize), as this is the majority of jobs that are advertised on that particular website are just that.

      I’m also guessing that the majority of people that are working for you are foreign nationals, who wont complain about working conditions or employment rights? The fact that you seem to be running either a restaurant /hotel would also indicate to me that this is the case? (Again I do apologize if I am wrong about this).

      If all these undesirable people keep applying for jobs, firstly you should start advertising on a website that has a better reputation than FAS, if these are the only type of people who are applying for the jobs. Maybe I’m wrong, but to me that just makes sound business sense Secondly, you should conduct a 5 minute phone interview with the person before asking them to come for an actual face-to-face, that way you would have a much better understanding of the person before meeting them.

      I’m no HR specialist but as I’ve been unemployed for some time now these are just little things that I have picked up from countless job applications and interviews. Again if you would have any position that you may like to consider me for please feel free to find me on Facebook and forward me the details so I can send you my CV.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Carmel Corrigan 20/08/12 #

      Colum, just used FAS as an example. I’m based in Meath, so do advertise locally and also use jobs.ie when necessary.how much I’m paying per hour is something I don’t discuss on a forum but I pay more than min wage to all my staff. I never look for ppl on back to work schemes, I just look for qualifications and experience to start. I don’t hold 10 min phone interviews with anyone for 2 reasons, 1. I don’t have the time and 2. I prefer to meet people face to face, (cos I think is more personal and friendly) you are wrong about working conditions, I run a very good business and the safely and respect of my staff are very important to me. A position for you, your more than welcome to send your cv on. Email address mangocaz@hotmail.co.uk I wld be more than happy to look at it. Because I have an opinion that is different from yours doesn’t mean I’m wrong. I’m speaking from my experience, and if you or anyone else doesn’t like what I say then that is really your problem. I’m not going to change my opinion because it’s upset someone. The truth hurts.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Colum Maher 20/08/12 #

      Carmel, I’m not criticizing for having a different opinion than I do we are all human and entitled to our opinion. I’m criticizing you because in “my opinion” you seem to be going about your recruitment in the wrong way if these type of people are the only ones applying for the positions.

      I also suggested the 5 minute telephone interview because you obviously seem to be a rather poor judge of character. So rather than wasting 20 minutes on a actual face-to-face interview with someone who clearly isn’t suitable for the position you would be able to conduct a short telephone interview prior to a short face-to-face to gauge the applicants personality. To me that just makes sense!

      I do understand where you are coming from, from an employers point of view (As I mentioned in my own post). Although I’ve never been in a position of actually owning my own business, I have been in the position of managing a business similar to your’s. I completely agree that if staff are coming in hungover, looking like they have slept in a gutter then certain actions must be taken. However, if you are continuously experiencing these issues, then I’m sorry to say the issue is not with the staff but with the person who is hiring the staff.

      I would also like to say from my own personal experiences that foreign nationals are just as capable of ringing in sick on a Saturday evening/ Sunday afternoon and even showing up to work hungover than an Irish person is. I also don’t doubt that you run a “very good business and the safely and respect of my staff are very important”, however the point I was making is that you would sooner higher foreign nationals because they are less likely to moan if there is something about the job that doesn’t seem right. After all they probably come from a country where they make only a fraction of what they make here regardless if they are on minimum wage here.

      Please don’t get me wrong, this is by no means a personal attack on you or your business. However making claims that young people have no respect for jobs and in the same breath saying that you can’t find people with experience and qualification seems rather contradictory. From my own experience’s I have found that most young people have neither experience and/or qualifications for 99% of the jobs that are out there.

      Anyway, thank you for providing me with your e-mail address. I will forward my CV onto you however given that I am living in Dublin City Center with no means of transport and you are based in Meath, I don’t see how commuting would be financially viable for me.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Carmel Corrigan 20/08/12 #

      Colum, I don’t hold 5 min telephone conversations because I have found them useless in the past. Saying I’m a bad judge of character is incorrect, all interviews is done with 3 members of staff on the interview table. We can’t all b a bad judge of character. The Irish ppl in the past that have been offered the job have either been 1. Qualified 2 experienced or 3 both. But when it comes down to them doing the job they can’t do it. Managing a business and owning one are very different. Your experience of foreign nationals calling in sick ect…. I don’t have those experiences. Your comment about foreign nationals not complaining about The job if they see there isn’t something right, and to suggest that an Irish would, this really isn’t my problem, the Irish are not staying in the job because they can’t do it, simple fact, not because of poor working conditions, if that was the case my problem sld b very easily solved. In the past I have hired young ppl with little or no experience so we can train them, but that takes alot of work and time, and the interest disappears after a few weeks. I have great staff now, and am
      Confident that I can provide a service to my customers with pride. You learn from your mistakes, you don’t keep repeating them. I voiced my opinion on here, with no interest to replying to any one, ESP the uneducated with their Nasty comments. you got a reply out of pure curiously. I have no interest any further in explaining myself to strangers. I’m proud of my comments and wouldn’t change them. I wish you the very best of luck in the future. Take care.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • Cian Doherty 19/08/12 #

    Th entitlement culture has never been greater.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Tom Newell 19/08/12 #

      Is that the social welfare entitlement culture or the political expenses culture and bank bonuses and pension top ups because I find it extremely funny were throwing people on the dole to the lions but have no problem allowing TD’s get there skid marked underwear washed by the taxpayer or be paid in travel expenses to come to work…….oh and the best bit a bank the state bails out gets rid of 1000people but the chief exec gets a huge salary and just because hes such a decent guy gets a 140k pension top up. So ya the entitlement culture is well alive in Ireland, the problem is people haven’t the guts to take on the ones earning way to much!

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • mart_n 19/08/12 #

      The entitlement culture.. you need not look any further than or gracious leaders to see examples of that. Just because the likes of James Reilly are ‘entitled’ to subsidies on the upkeep of his mansion show-house doesn’t mean that he SHOULD be making use of that bestowed entitlement when he doesn’t really depend on it.

      The same issues regarding perceived entitlements are visible in every echelon of society today.

      Just because something is applicable to you, doesn’t mean that you are applicable to it.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • John 'Trips' Gallen 20/08/12 #

    Well, he may be right for the younger people who grew up in a time of plentiful jobs, but for those older, say 35+, I would believe that they are not improving their work ethic, they didn’t need to as Ireland had one of the best work ethics in Europe for years with top production results for man hours worked – still does to my knowledge.

    What this older age group are doing is working longer hours and in many cases for no extra money, just so they don’t lose their jobs! They are doing it out of fear. That might suit some employers but it is totally wrong and will lead to discontent in work which has numerous known knock on problems for the home and society in general.

    just so long as this retailer is clear he/she is speaking about the lucky younger people that have a job.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Chris Day 19/08/12 #

    What a ridiculous question Gavan.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Nitin Gautam 20/08/12 #

    As per ethics @journal Irish go to Australia & do anything for any money but refuse to do in Ireland… Irish dont fight for minimum wage in aus or nz or canada or us… Y…. Attitude s missing guys, Why irish cant do at home???? Ethics & Attitude???

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Nitin Gautam 20/08/12 #

    @Mark
    Suddenly white people are feeling as they have been discriminated or being racially aparthied… So funny… I never thought You wud use ur colour now. All i say is work hard & be proud of it, Dont count money, just work hard with aim to work hard & attitude will exist forever. So start working & quit dole money. Ur parents did hard work, if they get dole its understandable but what have you done, you have given up with recession as excuse… So either go down or grow up with hard work. I was born with hard work attitude no matter where i work. So worry about urselve

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Mark 20/08/12 #

      Erm how old do you think I am?

      Calling me a paddy is racist. There was no need for it but you went there.

      If you actually read my post you see what I do for a living..

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • Nitin Gautam 20/08/12 #

    Work is there in market,Attitude s missing.Dole money is easy excuse not to work for minimum wage as people think they are better. But Recession means Hardship means Sacrifices means HardWork. Its not that complicated.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
    • Mark 20/08/12 #

      Massive difference between dole and minimum wage. Based on a 38 hr wk dole works out at just over 4 euro an hr. What’s minimum wage these days? 7.50 or around that?

      Noone wants to work for just over €4 an hour. Seriously! Do the maths, massive difference.

      Me just like a lot of people here I’m sure have/had parents that worked 40/50 hours a week to give us a good standard of living and are no means lazy. It’s an insult to hard working people to suggest otherwise.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Nitin Gautam 20/08/12 #

      @ Mark
      U just said it & look urself in mirror & think, ur parents have done best & i am proud of all those parents who made Ireland work but what have u done mark, rather than calculating maths & blaming politicians, mark u havent bend ur back enough to work hard & more people like u who doesnt improve their act with these hard times. Working for minimum wage,You cant respectit& you live in ireland. Please face mirror tomorrow & u will have answers.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Mark 20/08/12 #

      Where did I blame a politician?! I haven’t worked hard enough?! I’ve worked from the legal age right up till now!!

      You just made lots of assumptions there and are wrong. You basically said the Irish workforce as a whole are lazy and rubbish. That’s a laughable statement.

      FYI I get my answers from facts and not made up crap in my head. Only answer I get when I look in the mirror is the one I’ve already known and that my friend is; I’m one sexy mofo.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Nitin Gautam 20/08/12 #

      @ Mark
      To keep up with the celtic tiger Department of Enterprise Trade & Employment have to issue 40,000 work permits per year to keep up celtic tiger for consecutive 6-7 years. Do your calculations. I hope u have heard the saying,” Survival of fittest” you complain about foreigners stealings jobs from irish & being as irish what have you done to beat foreigners to show Irish can do better than others, you cant as you or other irish who abuse minimum wage or dole as soft cushion, Give birth to attitude rather blame game & beat recession & that too without foriegners. As i said reality hurts

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Mark 20/08/12 #

      You’re either stupid or drunk or both.

      You have not answered one question I asked. You also made assumptions about myself that have turned out to be entirely false!

      My fiancé is an non national who works here to begin with. Where have I ever mentioned that foreigners took jobs? you are trying to turn it around and make out that I have a problem with foreign workers and it’s backfiring to make you look laughable, your comments ignorant and your argument flawed.

      The truth of this is that you are labelling the Irish workforce as useless and lazy and I’m defending it. It’s really that simple.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Colum Maher 20/08/12 #

      Nitin, you really don’t have a say in this. From what I can gather this country has given you a lot, most importantly the chance to earn a living. Would I be right in saying that you didn’t have these opportunities in your own country and that’s why you came to Ireland?

      It seems quite hypocritical that you would come to a place that welcomed you with open arms and offer you the chance to earn a living and then you criticize people who don’t have the same opportunities that were afforded to you. Yes I will admit that there are people out there who are not interested in working and only want to sponge off the state, however of the hundreds of thousands of people currently on the live register I can guarantee that such people make up a very small percentage of those numbers.

      I would also advise that you read a little about Irish history and most importantly emigration and you will find that the Irish are renowned world-wide not just for their drinking and St. Patrick’s day, but for their strong work ethic. I don’t mean to throw figures and numbers at you but do you really believe that of the 450,000 people currently signing on that not one of them would take a minimum wage job because they think they are better than that? The Irish have done this for centuries and will continue to do it, it’s that simple.

      If things are/were similar in your own country would you accuse all the people who were out of work and unable to find a job of being lazy also? Yes the Irish people did shoot themselves in the foot during the boom years by encouraging immigration to fill the jobs that they didn’t want to do (As every developed country has done) but now the majority of people would be happy with any kind of paid work. Even if that meant taking a minimum wage job!

      I also have to mention that being on social welfare doesn’t automatically give you special privileges when it comes to paying bills. Unfortunately the gas and electric companies don’t just stop billing you because you are on the dole and the local supermarket doesn’t accept I.O.U.’s when it comes to paying for groceries.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
    • Mark 20/08/12 #

      God ignorance is bliss. Resort to personal insults and you lose straight away.

      Actually I’m in the education field so I’m on holidays.. Nice dig at people on social welfare though.

      Oh I also don’t drink..

      Go to bed like a good boy.

      Reply
      | Share | Report this comment
  • Nitin Gautam 20/08/12 #

    I think discussion was about has recession improved work ethics in ireland but some if irish country friends indulged foreigners in discussion as escape goat, so dont get upset with paddy comment, i have heard it in aquaintances it means irish, nothing wrong, may b i m missing somepart of ur history why irish hate word paddy and we celebrate paddy’s day. So how about stick to discussion? Not interested in ur age!!! All interested in is … Do you have attitude to make a change or Work Ethic to develop Ireland in recession…. Think .. Think

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Nitin Gautam 20/08/12 #

    @Colum Maher i respect what u r saying, but all it comes to at this point of time in ireland is ” who is willing to make it work” ” who is more hungry” ad it always have been. In good times irish or foriegners didnt care as money was flowing in but now s the time in recession to show true fighting spirit. I have full respect for irish genre who worked hard but no respect for guys & girls who just think they can walk into a work place & expect everything with no knowledge or willingness to learn. Good luck

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Christine Astrospirit Klein 20/08/12 #

    you get more scared and take more as you are afraid to loose the job and nothing else out there….and employers can treat you like shit and…. do!

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment
  • Paddy McGowan 20/08/12 #

    @Gavan, I think that your poll did get some good discussion going there at the start, it was hijacked just a little further on. This is something that I find interesting because I actually feel very removed from the economic boom. For me its just something that I read about in the papers. I must admit I find the term “work ethics” a bit too general and open to many interpretations.
    I enjoy hearing peoples views on topics like this and I would be interested to hear follow up interviews and articles with people from a range of backgrounds and in positions. Its a subject that people have a lot of interest in from some of the comments.

    Reply
    | Share | Report this comment

Add New Comment

Read Next:

FG ministers back Shatter in penalty points comments row Penalty Points

Most Popular Today

TheJournal.ie
1
Shatter called on to resign over Wallace penalty points row
18,271  164
2
British woman dies after drinking ‘tainted alcohol’
17,944  18
3
Houses in California are slowly sinking into the ground
17,082  20
Business ETC
1
Here are some things Microsoft needs to fix in Windows 8
12,495  28
2
500 million searches a day are for things Google has never heard of
10,151  15
TheScore.ie
1
13 reasons why we’ll miss Ronan O’Gara
29,067  75
2
As it happened: Clermont Auvergne v Toulon, Heineken Cup final
27,430  36
3
23 signs that you’re a Mayo sports fan
16,890  50
DailyEdge.ie
1
Eurovision 2013 as it happened: Gay marriage, hipsters, Denmark and nil points
66,059  302
2
8 everyday things that should be easier
22,137  39
3
16 reasons why dogs should be held like babies
19,557  23

Trending Tags

LIVEBLOG
Eurovision 2013 as it happened: Gay marriage, hipsters, Denmark and nil points
Eurovision 2013 as it happened: Gay marriage, hipsters, Denmark and nil points
As it happened: Clermont Auvergne v Toulon, Heineken Cup final
As they happened: Oireachtas hearings on planned abortion laws
PENALTY POINTS
Shatter called on to resign over Wallace penalty points row
Shatter called on to resign over Wallace penalty points row
The Evening Fix… now with added deer on a city bus
Wallace to lodge complaint against Shatter over penalty points allegation
ALCOHOL
Poll: Have you reduced your alcohol consumption in the past year?
Poll: Have you reduced your alcohol consumption in the past year?
‘Drunken Irish’ no more: Alcohol consumption falls 20% in 12 years
British woman dies after drinking ‘tainted alcohol’
GARDAí
Romanian gang found with €5k worth of stolen perfume, clothes and laptops
Romanian gang found with €5k worth of stolen perfume, clothes and laptops
Two gardaí in hospital following assault during Dublin house search
Body of man (20s) found in Tallaght field
PSNI
Continued appeal over attempted murder of police officers
Continued appeal over attempted murder of police officers
Girl (14) punched, kicked and robbed by three male teens in Belfast
Lorry driver jailed for driving cannabis truck from Greece ‘destined for NI’
IRELAND
Column: In Ethiopia, ordinary Irish people doing extraordinary things in difficult circumstances
Column: In Ethiopia, ordinary Irish people doing extraordinary things in difficult circumstances
John Hinde: Nostalgic images are not just for Ireland
The prehistoric Irish arrowhead that went to Canada… and back again

About Us

Follow Us

Corrections

Policies

Content copyright © Journal Media Ltd. 2013 Registered in Dublin, registration number: 483623. Registered office: 3rd floor, Latin Hall, Golden Lane, Dublin 8.

Please note that TheJournal.ie uses cookies to improve your experience and to provide services and advertising. For more information on cookies please refer to our cookies policy.

News images provided by Press Association and Photocall Ireland unless otherwise stated. Irish sport images provided by Inpho Photography unless otherwise stated. Wire service provided by Associated Press.

Journal Media does not control and is not responsible for user created content, posts, comments, submissions or preferences. Users are reminded that they are fully responsible for their own created content and their own posts, comments and submissions and fully and effectively warrant and indemnify Journal Media in relation to such content and their ability to make such content, posts, comments and submissions available. Journal Media does not control and is not responsible for the content of external websites.

Switch to Mobile Site

Sites: TheJournal.ie | BusinessETC.ie | TheScore.ie | DailyEdge.ie | Boards.ie | Adverts.ie | Daft.ie