mart_n, you are so right!

We are civilised. So we are told. The Kalahari bush people, it is widely believed, work about 16 hours a week at most to provide all their requirements. Can’t help thinking that sounds a lot more civilised to me.

For some reason, we produce way more stuff than any generation before us, have the technology to make machines do a lot of our work for us, and we’re working LONGER hours than before.

Go figure.

John Maynard Keynes imagined a 15 hour work week by the start of the 21st century, due to technological advances. What he overlooked and what Marx pointed out is that capitalism always uses technological advances to increase workloads. Technology under capitalism will always be justified to increase workloads on workers in order to increase profit. The goal is always more profit, never expect employers to be happy with the same amount of work that you were doing before they upgraded the means of production. What is happening in Ireland in this recession/depression is twofold. Due to a surplus amount of labour, wages are dropping and people fear losing their jobs. So they are willing to work more for less. This is what is meant by a better work ethic. Business owners and employers are finding their wage slaves easy to manage.

I have never before seen anything which so aptly encompasses how I feel.

Im writing from my experiences…..and I’ve had a lot of them. Thank god now I have great staff, 80% of them are not Irish, a pleasure to work with.

You are quite obviously a nasty, asinine individual and I wish nothing but misfortune upon you. Your ignorant generalizations show that you are an incredibly poor judge of character in the first instance to employ the minority of people who are only taking the mick. My generation are suffering horribly while smug yuppies like you who have made it are enjoying watching us fight for labour. Like I said before, I hope something horrible befalls you so you have to ask for help. Likely it will if you continue on the way you’re going.

@ Carmel

So tell me did you employ foreign nationals because they work for buttons and are willing to do overtime for free. NO doubt when you say jump you expect them to ask you how high?? I also find it hard to believe that any decent employer would rather hand jobs to foreign nationals rather than to his fellow countrymen. You have already been asked what your business is and directed the commentator to FAS!!! I suggest that it is all in your head and you do not own a business or employ people!

70% off them probably getting social under a different alias too due to you probably paying less than minimum wage….I would love to know what jobs you have advertised on FAS as the vast majority are internships,

Carmel reading your comments.. I wouldn’t work for you no matter what you pay!!.. I pity your employees, you have a horrible attitude, full of self importance and no respect!!! And if foreigners are so much better employees than your fellow Irish maybe you should set up business elsewhere away from ireland!

I’m sure your hard working Irish customers would be delighted to read that Carmel.

Those 100,000 people you refer to as scroungers were in the main the OAPs, the sick and their carers.

well thats pure crap, i could personally name 20 long term unemployed heads that never worked a day in their lives, and most likely never will.

OAP’s are not counted among the unemployed – as they are not part of the labour force.

Leaving you plenty of time to cream your hamstrings

Developmental Psychology tell us that during a crises, human beings retreat to a lower level of human functioning and consciousness. i.e ‘hurtfull behaviours’…Look to the harmfull choices working politicians have made on behalf of their citizens during this economic crises.

“Civil ” Servants ?

@rory – It’s perhaps a bit too fashionable to knock civil servants. All I can say, from my own experience, is that civil servants who I have had dealings with in Ireland have been a total contrast to the ones when I was in England 15 years ago. Those really did earn the sobriquet “civil serpents”. By comparison they’re saints here.

(with the notable exception of co. council planning) :)

Grraham, ya gas fella! I haven’t actually divulged personal info such as work hours or rates as such. Long hours may be good for the consumer addict if they get paid overtime to keep buying status symbols, iphones and ipads every few months or new handbags and things. However long hours for many does not get paid for. The long hours going into the evening and weekends are done to hold on to a job that’s really for more than one person. Also working around the clock for many, just about puts kids through school, food, bills along with still falling behind facing money pressures. If there has been an improvement in the work ethic, that could be considered an understatement.

Before they do that will you please make sure the jobs are there first..

I’m not Eddie Hobbs but I’m sure if you took the 400,000 people’s dole money out of the economy then it would suffer more.

Lazy workers are every where, no matter what the country and to hire people based on nationality, I’m pretty sure is illegal and classed as discrimination.

@Mark If taking money as dole out makes people more responsible then let be it, who needs eddie hobbs, we make these people, lets go back when ireland was agricultural base economy, foreign nationals didnt bring it down, they helped celtic tiger roar louder. But now s the time for irish to show attitude but they cant as they are weak in work culture ethics & attitude, so may be as somebody said earlier “penny hasnt dropped yet for irish”

@UnderTheRadar: Sorry you feel that way. Perhaps I didn’t illustrate it very well but to be fair, I don’t think you can necessarily equate zero unemployment with good work ethic – if anything it could be the converse, because if work is plentiful, people have less incentive to feel pride, loyalty or dedication to the jobs they already have. This is what I was hoping to get at: whether this is a feeling that readers believe to have waned in the last few years.

Jeez gawd forgive me for challenging the writer of this article. Keep forgetting – we must not challenge those in authority. And we wonder why we continue to be led up the garden path. Grow the hell up Ireland.

You think Gavin is in charge of things?! Just trying to earn a crust like the rest of us, grow up yourself!

Little Jim. Gavan wrote the article and posed the question, therefore he has a certain amount of authority on this thread. Cop on to yourself if you ever want to be called Big Jim.

And Gavan I meant no offense to you personally. I usually enjoy your articles and I suppose it is Sunday :)

Gavan
Who the hell knows whether the employed people of Ireland’s work ethic has changed – how would you quantify that without knowing all of the employed people of Ireland. How can James Keogh comment on the whole of Ireland? Sure his little corner may have changed, but how can he comment on the rest of Ireland?
He is just generalising.
And the only thing you can generalise about is people who generalise are generally idiots.

@Dave – I don’t mean to sound glib, but the poll is only asking people to share or recount their personal experiences of whether people take their jobs more seriously. The whole point of doing a poll is to get a general (albeit vague, but we don’t ever claim our polls are scientific) picture of what the public thinks, and to act as a sounding board to kick off some discussion.

its lazy journalism is what it is Gavan

Wow. Some people with an Arts degree put it to good use! Don’t tar us all with the same brush!

That hurt my feelings.

I really haven’t seen many young Irish people thinking that jobs are beneath them. Nearly everyone in my age group that I know have been working in pubs and bookies and retail since they started college (way back in 2007). Doing weekends and summer jobs up to the last year of college and some still are working through their masters. Now, to tell you the truth, before I started college I looked for work and was told by my parents, teachers and people interviewing me for work that I “deserve better and should go to college because you’d be wasted here”. It wasn’t the young tiger cubs that got this idea put in their heads that some work is beneath them.

I’ve been turned down for many a job because of this reasoning.

Granted, there are people out there who are spoiled and don’t think they deserve anything less than the best, but I’ve seen plenty of them in all sorts of age groups and social circles.

At Stephen Church

So what’s wrong with an Arts degree Stephen? I worked in many a supermarket, building site and factory in my when I was younger, but made the decision to emigrate and using my Arts degree to land a sweet job in a warm sunny foreign climate. If people acquire skills, genuine skills and are realistic in their expectations of landing a skilled job, yeah by all means work short term in supermarkets/retail etc. to make ends meet, but I don’t think that it is in anyways ‘lazy’ for them to want a better job, or to actively seek one. It’s called ambition.

What did you study? Happy to spend your life in the ‘peas and beans’ aisle of Tesco stacking and facing off green giant sweetcorn, knowing you could be doing something more with your newly acquired skills?

It’s just a nightmare to get good staff. Last Irish person I had work for me came to work drunk, and started to drink during service. I would love to have Irish staff and I have tried, but they are not reliable. Nightclubs and hangovers…… I to have had enough of Irish staff. Will never hire them again. All my staff get paid more than min wage and pay their tax. As I said in my first comment, the penny hasn’t dropped yet. Thanks for the support.

I’m sorry to be getting on your case about this stuff Carmel, but am I right in saying that your not an equal opportunities employer? “I to have had enough of Irish staff. Will never hire them again.”

I’ve heard a lot of Irish people generalize foreign nationals during the recession, but I’m absolutely flabbergasted that an Irish person who claims to be an employer would generalize their own people. As I said if this is the type of employees that are applying for the positions through the FAS website then maybe you need to change your recruitment strategy.

Colum, I’m sorry but u really have no idea what it’s like been an employer. You think running your own business is easy, everyone is priority before the employer and his/ her family, suppliers and staff have to be paid first. You need customers to come in through your door, you have to make sure that they get great service so that they come back and better still so that they leave happy and talk about you to others. Having hungover staff dressed in grubby cloths and no knowledge of the job doesn’t help, and I’m sorry but 100% I can say it was never a foreigner that was like that. The Irish that are applying for the job come from very well respected backgrounds and family, but 1 they are not interested in the job, think they can show up and do as little as possible, call in sick on a Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon….it’s the same story, time after time after time. At some point you have to say to yourself, enough is enough, y am I wasting my time, money energy and bad service to my customers, cut my losses and look into other cv’s. Believe me when I opened my business I was on ly going to have Irish staff, local Irish staff but if I didn’t change my attitude and employ foreigners I wouldn’t have a business to day, sad but simple fact.

Nitin, I really don’t understand the point you are trying to make because you say on one hand that the youth are not responsible but then say that the Irish workforce as a whole have no attitude towards work and ethics. Would you say the same to an Irish man who gets up at 5 in the morning to go out delivering milk or an Irish nurse who is having to work split shifts just to make ends meet?

I agree that the youth of Ireland know little or no responsibility and I am not defending them when I say, how can they know this when they see a bleak future ahead of them. As human beings, not just as a particular race of people, we would like to feel that we have progression in our lives and would like to have the opportunities to progress career wise. Unfortunately this progression is no longer a given when it comes to working in this country.

Young people feel this more than most as they are only at the beginning of their lives and when they spend three or four years in university studying just to be told at the end of it, that it was all for nothing of coarse they will become disillusioned this would be the same in every country regardless.

I have worked most of my adult life and I am now in a situation now where I apply for jobs, I’m lucky if I get a reply informing me that my application has been unsuccessful. I really have to take exception to your comment about the “dole cushion” because believe me if I was given the chance to work, I would gladly take it and given the person that I am I would make damn sure that I done my job well as I have done with every job I have ever done! I’m a positive that any Irish person bar a few would do the exact same!

I say you are a delightful boss/slave driver from the tone of your comment…

How much are you paying per hour. I’m on social welfare and would jump at the chance of any job in the Dublin area? I also don’t have mammy and daddy supporting me and usually have roughly 20 or 30 Euro left once I’ve got all my bills out of the way. If you could offer me something marginally better than that then I would gladly take it. Where did you say you advertised all these jobs?

Colum the jobs are advertised on fas.ie. waiting job, kp job, cleaner job, manager job…..you name it. Have a lot of friends in the same business with the same issues so check out http://www.fas.ie they have 1,000 of jobs on the site

All capitalists only care about the bottom line – profit.

Humans are just discardable monkeys there to make you more € so you can you have your fancy holidays abroad and shopping trips. The tone of your comments show that you believe this.

@Carmel, what an ignorant comment

Well said, Paddy

Sorry Carmel I have to reply to paddy bebop through your comment becaucse the cowardly wannabe commy wont let people reply to his comments. Paddy; when did a waiter, dishwasher or any service based employee ever get paid overtime? This woman is providing a service, ( which you, i doubt not, have used at some stage) and giving employment to those who dont see doing a job to make the rent as beneath them. Whats wrong with her opinion? I live in the states where there are no safety nets and any Irishperson that needs to eat, drink or clothe themselves will work at whatever to make ends meet and there is no judgement among us. I’ m done with that kip of a country I love so well. Good riddance to the lot of you.

Carmel, I know there are plenty of jobs advertised on FAS.ie. Being that I’m unemployed it’s not like I would be unfamiliar with that particular website or any other jobs website for that matter. The fact that you advertise on the FAS website and not an actual proper website such as Jobs.ie or Irishjobs.ie seems rather suspect.. Also you didn’t actually answer my question on how much you are paying per hour so I’m going to go ahead and assume that you are taking advantage of the current situation by hiring people on CE and back-to-work schemes (If I’m wrong I do apologize), as this is the majority of jobs that are advertised on that particular website are just that.

I’m also guessing that the majority of people that are working for you are foreign nationals, who wont complain about working conditions or employment rights? The fact that you seem to be running either a restaurant /hotel would also indicate to me that this is the case? (Again I do apologize if I am wrong about this).

If all these undesirable people keep applying for jobs, firstly you should start advertising on a website that has a better reputation than FAS, if these are the only type of people who are applying for the jobs. Maybe I’m wrong, but to me that just makes sound business sense Secondly, you should conduct a 5 minute phone interview with the person before asking them to come for an actual face-to-face, that way you would have a much better understanding of the person before meeting them.

I’m no HR specialist but as I’ve been unemployed for some time now these are just little things that I have picked up from countless job applications and interviews. Again if you would have any position that you may like to consider me for please feel free to find me on Facebook and forward me the details so I can send you my CV.

Colum, just used FAS as an example. I’m based in Meath, so do advertise locally and also use jobs.ie when necessary.how much I’m paying per hour is something I don’t discuss on a forum but I pay more than min wage to all my staff. I never look for ppl on back to work schemes, I just look for qualifications and experience to start. I don’t hold 10 min phone interviews with anyone for 2 reasons, 1. I don’t have the time and 2. I prefer to meet people face to face, (cos I think is more personal and friendly) you are wrong about working conditions, I run a very good business and the safely and respect of my staff are very important to me. A position for you, your more than welcome to send your cv on. Email address mangocaz@hotmail.co.uk I wld be more than happy to look at it. Because I have an opinion that is different from yours doesn’t mean I’m wrong. I’m speaking from my experience, and if you or anyone else doesn’t like what I say then that is really your problem. I’m not going to change my opinion because it’s upset someone. The truth hurts.

Carmel, I’m not criticizing for having a different opinion than I do we are all human and entitled to our opinion. I’m criticizing you because in “my opinion” you seem to be going about your recruitment in the wrong way if these type of people are the only ones applying for the positions.

I also suggested the 5 minute telephone interview because you obviously seem to be a rather poor judge of character. So rather than wasting 20 minutes on a actual face-to-face interview with someone who clearly isn’t suitable for the position you would be able to conduct a short telephone interview prior to a short face-to-face to gauge the applicants personality. To me that just makes sense!

I do understand where you are coming from, from an employers point of view (As I mentioned in my own post). Although I’ve never been in a position of actually owning my own business, I have been in the position of managing a business similar to your’s. I completely agree that if staff are coming in hungover, looking like they have slept in a gutter then certain actions must be taken. However, if you are continuously experiencing these issues, then I’m sorry to say the issue is not with the staff but with the person who is hiring the staff.

I would also like to say from my own personal experiences that foreign nationals are just as capable of ringing in sick on a Saturday evening/ Sunday afternoon and even showing up to work hungover than an Irish person is. I also don’t doubt that you run a “very good business and the safely and respect of my staff are very important”, however the point I was making is that you would sooner higher foreign nationals because they are less likely to moan if there is something about the job that doesn’t seem right. After all they probably come from a country where they make only a fraction of what they make here regardless if they are on minimum wage here.

Please don’t get me wrong, this is by no means a personal attack on you or your business. However making claims that young people have no respect for jobs and in the same breath saying that you can’t find people with experience and qualification seems rather contradictory. From my own experience’s I have found that most young people have neither experience and/or qualifications for 99% of the jobs that are out there.

Anyway, thank you for providing me with your e-mail address. I will forward my CV onto you however given that I am living in Dublin City Center with no means of transport and you are based in Meath, I don’t see how commuting would be financially viable for me.

Colum, I don’t hold 5 min telephone conversations because I have found them useless in the past. Saying I’m a bad judge of character is incorrect, all interviews is done with 3 members of staff on the interview table. We can’t all b a bad judge of character. The Irish ppl in the past that have been offered the job have either been 1. Qualified 2 experienced or 3 both. But when it comes down to them doing the job they can’t do it. Managing a business and owning one are very different. Your experience of foreign nationals calling in sick ect…. I don’t have those experiences. Your comment about foreign nationals not complaining about The job if they see there isn’t something right, and to suggest that an Irish would, this really isn’t my problem, the Irish are not staying in the job because they can’t do it, simple fact, not because of poor working conditions, if that was the case my problem sld b very easily solved. In the past I have hired young ppl with little or no experience so we can train them, but that takes alot of work and time, and the interest disappears after a few weeks. I have great staff now, and am
Confident that I can provide a service to my customers with pride. You learn from your mistakes, you don’t keep repeating them. I voiced my opinion on here, with no interest to replying to any one, ESP the uneducated with their Nasty comments. you got a reply out of pure curiously. I have no interest any further in explaining myself to strangers. I’m proud of my comments and wouldn’t change them. I wish you the very best of luck in the future. Take care.

Is that the social welfare entitlement culture or the political expenses culture and bank bonuses and pension top ups because I find it extremely funny were throwing people on the dole to the lions but have no problem allowing TD’s get there skid marked underwear washed by the taxpayer or be paid in travel expenses to come to work…….oh and the best bit a bank the state bails out gets rid of 1000people but the chief exec gets a huge salary and just because hes such a decent guy gets a 140k pension top up. So ya the entitlement culture is well alive in Ireland, the problem is people haven’t the guts to take on the ones earning way to much!

The entitlement culture.. you need not look any further than or gracious leaders to see examples of that. Just because the likes of James Reilly are ‘entitled’ to subsidies on the upkeep of his mansion show-house doesn’t mean that he SHOULD be making use of that bestowed entitlement when he doesn’t really depend on it.

The same issues regarding perceived entitlements are visible in every echelon of society today.

Just because something is applicable to you, doesn’t mean that you are applicable to it.

Erm how old do you think I am?

Calling me a paddy is racist. There was no need for it but you went there.

If you actually read my post you see what I do for a living..

Massive difference between dole and minimum wage. Based on a 38 hr wk dole works out at just over 4 euro an hr. What’s minimum wage these days? 7.50 or around that?

Noone wants to work for just over €4 an hour. Seriously! Do the maths, massive difference.

Me just like a lot of people here I’m sure have/had parents that worked 40/50 hours a week to give us a good standard of living and are no means lazy. It’s an insult to hard working people to suggest otherwise.

@ Mark
U just said it & look urself in mirror & think, ur parents have done best & i am proud of all those parents who made Ireland work but what have u done mark, rather than calculating maths & blaming politicians, mark u havent bend ur back enough to work hard & more people like u who doesnt improve their act with these hard times. Working for minimum wage,You cant respectit& you live in ireland. Please face mirror tomorrow & u will have answers.

Where did I blame a politician?! I haven’t worked hard enough?! I’ve worked from the legal age right up till now!!

You just made lots of assumptions there and are wrong. You basically said the Irish workforce as a whole are lazy and rubbish. That’s a laughable statement.

FYI I get my answers from facts and not made up crap in my head. Only answer I get when I look in the mirror is the one I’ve already known and that my friend is; I’m one sexy mofo.

@ Mark
To keep up with the celtic tiger Department of Enterprise Trade & Employment have to issue 40,000 work permits per year to keep up celtic tiger for consecutive 6-7 years. Do your calculations. I hope u have heard the saying,” Survival of fittest” you complain about foreigners stealings jobs from irish & being as irish what have you done to beat foreigners to show Irish can do better than others, you cant as you or other irish who abuse minimum wage or dole as soft cushion, Give birth to attitude rather blame game & beat recession & that too without foriegners. As i said reality hurts

You’re either stupid or drunk or both.

You have not answered one question I asked. You also made assumptions about myself that have turned out to be entirely false!

My fiancé is an non national who works here to begin with. Where have I ever mentioned that foreigners took jobs? you are trying to turn it around and make out that I have a problem with foreign workers and it’s backfiring to make you look laughable, your comments ignorant and your argument flawed.

The truth of this is that you are labelling the Irish workforce as useless and lazy and I’m defending it. It’s really that simple.

Nitin, you really don’t have a say in this. From what I can gather this country has given you a lot, most importantly the chance to earn a living. Would I be right in saying that you didn’t have these opportunities in your own country and that’s why you came to Ireland?

It seems quite hypocritical that you would come to a place that welcomed you with open arms and offer you the chance to earn a living and then you criticize people who don’t have the same opportunities that were afforded to you. Yes I will admit that there are people out there who are not interested in working and only want to sponge off the state, however of the hundreds of thousands of people currently on the live register I can guarantee that such people make up a very small percentage of those numbers.

I would also advise that you read a little about Irish history and most importantly emigration and you will find that the Irish are renowned world-wide not just for their drinking and St. Patrick’s day, but for their strong work ethic. I don’t mean to throw figures and numbers at you but do you really believe that of the 450,000 people currently signing on that not one of them would take a minimum wage job because they think they are better than that? The Irish have done this for centuries and will continue to do it, it’s that simple.

If things are/were similar in your own country would you accuse all the people who were out of work and unable to find a job of being lazy also? Yes the Irish people did shoot themselves in the foot during the boom years by encouraging immigration to fill the jobs that they didn’t want to do (As every developed country has done) but now the majority of people would be happy with any kind of paid work. Even if that meant taking a minimum wage job!

I also have to mention that being on social welfare doesn’t automatically give you special privileges when it comes to paying bills. Unfortunately the gas and electric companies don’t just stop billing you because you are on the dole and the local supermarket doesn’t accept I.O.U.’s when it comes to paying for groceries.

God ignorance is bliss. Resort to personal insults and you lose straight away.

Actually I’m in the education field so I’m on holidays.. Nice dig at people on social welfare though.

Oh I also don’t drink..

Go to bed like a good boy.