well i for one voted very different last time out but what i got was more of the same; no change at all. so where do i go the next time out who is there to vote . unless there is a new party with some hope.

Completely agree John

Agree that the voters are an issue but what have they to choose from but a group of “look after themselves” types and “do nothing but talk”. We need the system changed (see other comment of mine below).

completely agree.. Democracy is the pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance ..

It’s not a democracy if you’re being asked to choose between parties with broadly similar policies. There’s no choice there. The demands of the public aren’t being represented in the policies of the parties.

It’s not democracy if 8,000 of us elect someone and when they come to vote in the Dáil, they vote the way one man wants them to vote, ignoring the 8,000 who put him there.

Direct democracy ireland will cure that problem. Forever

@Scrap I agree with you there, it does show this “party line” is a big issue but we do elect parties who form a government. If we switch to individuals how would a government be formed and stay the course without it becoming a committee and fold every time there is a disagreement?

Unless the new party is just another centre-right party that acts as a stooge for the troika, of which we have two large ones as it is.

I agree

What’s the point.
Once they get a few in the dail,they get a sniff of the perks and benefits and do the same as the rest.
Anyone thats involved in politics at any level in Ireland is doing it for the money and the benefits.
Not one of them cares about the citizens of this country.
They are so detached from reality it’s unbelievable.
They earn way too much.do nothing and point the finger in the other direction when caught screwing the system.
I’ve no faith in anyone who’s involved in politics in Ireland.
Their basically burglars and Thieves,but wear the best suits and steal from us with the stroke of a pen in their plush offices.

Would be nice to have a political system with no parties, just the right people for the right job. The civil war ended a long time ago.

@ciaran Clarke. I feel the same. However Direct Democracy Ireland will restore direct democracy to Ireland if they get in. This means that people will have the power to throw out TDs, entire governments, force the dail to legislate. It’s an exciting concept, one we were meant to have back in 1922 but it was stolen from us

Interesting reading. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Irish_Free_State#section_1

@scrap nice idea but in the real world that won’t work.

How so Tom?

Tom Keating. In the real world, initiatives like that are the normal. Irish politics is very far from the real world.

Eamon, correct Irish politics are far far away from reality, hence I would like the system changed where we have a representative setup that works for the people to bring the country forward, not this sameo sameo TDs we keep voting in….

Ryan, we already have direct democracy, we don’t need that changed, we need the system and the type of people representing us to change.

Tom we have representative democracy which is a rolling 5 year dictatorship. We do not have direct democracy

Just another centre right , wtf , we have all manner of disjointed left parties in this country . And the reality is that out so called centre right parties destroyed this country pursuing “leftist ” policies I.e massive increase in public numbers and pay , massive increase in social welfare payments which based admittedly on ridiculous more right wing unsustainable tax regime and total lack of deregulation . A new economically conservative , principal led party should be welcomed by all PAYE low to middle income workers that have been shat on by consecutive governments in this country

Fully agree, I think all politicians starting out have great intentions of making big changes. Then as soon as they are in the Dáil …… Nothing changes ha! Watch “the wire” great insight to behind the scenes politics!!

I want a new party, sure, but nothing like the PDs, who were even more to blame for the disastrous crash of the Irish economy than Fianna Fáil. Let those greed-ridden leeches go away and bring their nasty, begrudging brand of politics with them.
What we need is for Fianna Dum and Fine Dee to join up as the Fianna Gael party, and take in the PD clones with them, and then we need a proper left-wing opposition party. Labour, you say? Hahahahaha!

Run yourself then and be different. Or…..sit on the sidelines and bitch away painting everyone with the same brush.

Leon O Haodhagain:

what a typically Irish way of thinking. Defeatist, insular and non-progressive

thumbs up

Tom how is there democracy when politicians have to do as they are told by the party when a vote is put to them Get rid of the whip and we may then have honesty and truth

Bernadette, it’s a democracy by thus definition “government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.” That is what we have. All that said, I take your point about the lack of democracy within parties. It’s always been that way and we vote our TDs into this system without question. Perhaps what we need is a case of free voting for all TDs but the issue with that is governments would fall all too frequent, we need stable government. You’ll note that very few of these TDs “forced” to tow the party resign from the party as they are too focused on protecting their job! :-(

I agree with Aaron out with the old & in with the new. Get rid of these self indulgent politicians who are only looking after themselves.

Another thing is that the only people that indulge McDowell are the Sunday Indo. They were basically the party paper for Haughey and Ahern’s FF. They know that the FF brand is toxic for most people. They need a new pet and who better than their friend McDowell to do it.

Stephen Donnelly is a man who would create a pragmatic and effective party. McDowell will destroy the credibility and just as importantly the internal dynamic of any party, might as well get Bertie to join as him.

Sli nios fearr is going to b the way forward

Spot on 100% agree, Mc Dowell had numerous chances to change the way this country is governed and miserably failed. It’s quite unbelievable that he even wrote this. The view he has of himself and the view of the vast majority of people is just polar opposite.

We need to stop voting by constituency. Voting should be by some random factor like birth month or initials, so the constituency clientelism will be of no advantage.
And we need to get rid of all the expenses and perks, every single one of them, and cut back politicians’ salaries to a normal level, so they have a genuine connection with and feeling for those they represent. And benchmark them – but not against the civil service wage, but against Gross Domestic Product (GDP).
And the civil servants – they shouldn’t have perks like free parking (worth some €3,000 a year per civil servant in Dublin), and all the crazy little allowances. They deserve a proper wage, but stop the ludicrous allowances and increments, and the crazy prices.

If he comes back I’m gonna mug a gangster and rob a Glock.

I wonder who is putting him up to it. Is the cunning Bertie pushing McDowell to do this in order to kill off the revival of FF, his last revenge for them distancing themselves from him and also a way of getting in a man who he should be able to rely on in Govt. He was not described by Haughey as ” the most cunning, the most deviousness of them all”.

@ Les… Agree wholeheartedly !!!!

Not at all, Eamon…Bertie is away admiring himself in the corporate speech-circuit mirror, where all good and faithful minions find final pastures.

Micky Mc’Ds ego is big enough to fill any Olympic stadium without any assistance or encouragement.
He’s born into that dynastic sense of rightful privilege that access to the golden circles by birth ensures constant confirmation of.

He should set up the Narcissan Liberation Front. Louis Walsh is his secret managment consultant. But keep that quiet, I was told in confidence.

Interesting that he believes the next coalition to be FF/SF.

Maybe I should just revive the somnolent Regressive Hypocrite Party?

The bad news folks…its a private party.
Yiz had yizzer chance in ’87.

Les your 100% on the ball.

I’d say it was a case of McDowell writing the article and then they had the poll conducted. One one page is the people calling out and on the following page is the saviour of mankind McDowell laying himself centre stage.

McDowell had his chance to reform politics and Govt. in Ireland, the result is 450k on the dole, every bank in the country insolvent, the reputation of Govt. and business in the gutter and rightly so. He was Minister for Justice during a period of unequaled stink in politics and business.

What do we want – Something new!
When do we want it – Sometime soon!
Who should support it – Someone else!

Who?

Wohoo!

Talk is cheap, reality is different. We need professional people who want to help move this country forward not career politicians. One should be only allowed to serve for two terms. We also need honest people voted in. We only need about 40 representatives for the whole country.

Tom you say we should elect professional people. The history of the last 40 years has been that the worst in the country are Professional people. The worst goms and hoods that are elected here are nearly always either Barristers, solicitors or Accountants. They form the worst of the worst for corruption and distorting of the economy towards a select few. Then you have your auctioneers and real estate people – the 2nd tier.

Selecting just “professional people” will just hyper charge the warped political system we have.

Sounds like an interesting party, however wikipedia is not considered a credible resource for citation by any academic standard (“,)

When I say professional I’m not talking teachers, lawyers etc.., I mean professional people from business and industry. I do take your point though….

We only need 40 honest politicans to solve this countries problems?
There’s a number of problems with this. The most obvious being that power corrupts and the corrupt seek power.
Direct Democracy is the only way to ensure honest and competent politicans remain in power, while the corrupt are turfed out.

What I meant about 40 is a ratio against the population, approx 1 for every 100,000 people. I believe we have 166 TDs for approx 4million people, that’s too many and a waste of money. I agree power does corrupt many but not all. I’m still not 100% convinced that this idea of direct democracy solves the corruption issue or just creates more problems. Will direct democracy allow for unpopular decisions to be made in the national interest or is it all about populous decisions only, kinda like socialism / communism, which we all know failed and are bad in action while great on paper?

Need to do more research on this direct democracy idea…..

@Tom

‘..professional people from business and industry..’ already run the country through their lobby groups.

You do need more research.

@Damien, your missing my point, we need professional people, credible people to help run our country. We need their skills to help make the right decision for us not for themselves. I agree there is a lobby from the friends of the TDs, no question there. Don’t paint all professional with the corrupt brush, not all of them are like that. We have some very talented people in this country that could really help but they won’t go near public life are it’s seen are corrupt and a cronies place.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me but cheap “do your research” comments aren’t helpful and add nothing to this conversation other than trying to provoke (which I’m sure wasn’t your intent!)

No. Not trying to provoke.

Just browned off with people thinking professionalism is a measure of either intelligence or integrity. The evidence is otherwise.
The professions are generaly closed shops of vested interest, the whole problem.
We need inclusive solutions to what are a series of exclusivist golden circles.
The problem is bigger than Ireland. Its a global parasitic economic ideology developed over centuries. By research I mean without a historical perspective on the background we will continue to stumble around repeating the same mistakes.
No offense intended.

Cool, I agree with you Damien. Question is how to we solve it?!

Not sure we do, or can.

First, educate yourself, every day.
Second, test your understanding against feedback, and don’t take agreement as confirmation; we can agree on false solutions(religions and ideologies being the prime examples).
Meantime we have to use the new media while we have them, the entrenched powers are moving fast to close them down(Vanunu, Assange and Manning are the sort of whistleblowing public informers they fear most).
And resign yourself to losing the battle, then get with fighting it because its the thing you do if you think the human race should take precedence over the hominid rat-race.
Rule 97. Laugh at the bastards. They hate that.

Never understood the grá people have for that dirtbag Shane Ross. He’d love to be part of the FG Tory agenda.

And Gurgiev is just a very articulate and bombastic conventional economic thinker.
We don’t need new leaders, we need new politics and new economics, from people who undertand how deep the coming problems are going to be.
Not sure I see any candidates anywhere on this island. And if we had any, the population is too conservative to ever listen.
Realism will be the first requirement. Honesty and an ability to engage scientifically literate thinkers will be the second and third. A bulletproof vest might be a good idea as well. The grassy knoll club would not be too pleased should such a troublesome b*ll*x come over the horizon.

This is the same Shane Ross who lambasted Fine Gael for going into coalition with Labour because he wanted a more right wing government lead by Fine Gael and similarly minded independents. Really be careful what you wish for.

Absolutely. Brilliant idea.

On the nose Ken.

They erased the Egalite, from the democratic trio of Liberte, Fraternite et same.
Simple matter of regrouping their aristocratic royalism under nominal democracy in alliance with emerging commercial/industrial capital acquisition.
We need lateral, inclusive(merit or no, ALL must have a minimum)rationality, with statutory limits on personal wealth, no matter the bank of resources being managed by individuals according to capacity. Which means we need a fresh system of valuation, besides runaway monetarism, which has gone numerologically carcinogenic. Finance has trumped actual economics. Its a collective psychosis, as a glance at a stock-market trading floor testifies. Simian hominids chasing golden bananas.

He has been trying to get things moving on this for about 2 years but he would fall out with Jesus so he is reduced to trying to get it moving via occasional articles and hoping that others organize and invite him in. The ego then believes that his God given greatness will end up with him as leader. The most virulent opponents of McDowell are usually ex-PD’s. They have seen his unique skill set up close and it has made quiet an impression.

not since Eoin O’Duffy has his modest like been seen.

We have to remember that as a country there is quiet a large 5th column here. The go along, to get along gang that are FF are still in existence and they are still a credible threat to this country. They do not have to be in power to be able to divert tax payers cash or contracts. All they have to have is enough of their members spread across all levels and parts of our society and economy. Once they have that, they’ll be able to continue robbing from us.

If decent hard working people do not get involved in politics then the future belongs to FF members and the likes of McDowell. If that happens, then you or your children do not have a future here.

To hell with salary, leave there pay alone, get rid of perks and allowances , wages only nothing else

Next government will still be the Troika. They’re embedded like Britannia.

Fergus can see into the future…any lotto numbers for next weeks big jack pot.

is that making sure he won’t want for anything when they all retire or get thrown out salaries pensions expenses yes I have to agree they are doing an excellent job fethering the nests

We are a nation of begrudgers. There is no way we would get out of a recession with being taxed heavily and playing ball with Europe. Bertie and Co. and the bankers bled us dry. Now we are paying the price. Its a slow slow process but there is hope in the future.

without*

How would politicians ever be able to work towards a vision under those circumstances. I’m not saying the current system promotes visionaries either, but there have to be some long term objectives of representatives too.

Keep you old job, no pension until 65 , and two terms not one

“We need a benign dictator in Ireland”, Gosh. I don’t suppose you’d like to volunteer.

@damo
No Damo it wouldn’t be me, I would be far too right-wing for Ireland.

The PC brigade would only try to oust me in a coup d’etat, although maybe a coup d’etat is not PC, so I may be alright.

Would you not consider it yourself ??

Oh God No. That’d be awful.

No such thing as a benign dictatorship.

Give me a shout when ye have the deadwood cleared.
Always fancied meself as the totalitarian despot…and sure absolute power would be no trouble to me, I’m immune to the temptatious dangers..I’m already absolutely corrupt.

Emigrants coming to Ireland seeking for a better life to not think this country is rotten and corrupt, otherwise they wouldn’t have come.

Well Kaja they came here not thinking the country was not corrupt but now they are here they must realise its corrupt right to the core for many years. Thanks mainly to self serving governments an d greedy bankers. Definitely time for a change

Kaja just wait and see the cliff our political elite have led us to ,our political class are unmatched any where in the world in keeping a lid on the corruption ,85 billion down the toilet in ANGLO IRISH BANK and no paper work to tell us what happened that night of the bank bailout ,i would love to hear how Mugabe and his cronies could better this one.

I’m from Poland and believe me, after a month in my country with apparently booming economy and untouched by recession you would have a completely different opinion on the quality of life, and even politics, in Ireland.

You could try giving immigrants a chance to vote? Maybe that might grab their attention?

Firstly a directly elected Taoiseach is pointless if he/she doesn’t have the support of the parliament. Unless you’re considering given this person quite a lot of executive power.

Secondly you can’t be sure that the same party wouldn’t control both houses even if they were elected at different times.

Thirdly if you make it illegal for a party to tell its member how to vote then you don’t have a party political system at all. There is nothing to be gained by being a party member. You simply have a system of completely independent members who will be more prone to lobbyists and small interested groups.

Finally how can you force every party to be in Cabinet. There would be political gridlock as every agenda tried to be served. Or worse you get a completely collective government with nobody doing the job of opposition.

So in essence you want a system with striking similarities to the US….and this is somehow meant to make the way our country is run LESS dysfunctional???

Interesting view

Jim,

No executive powers but the point of a directly elected Taoiseach ire the complete opposite . For instance if Enda Kenny now wants to get a bill through the house no matter what it is. With the party whip and the fact he can add and remove troublesome members of cabinet without question.You can argue he already has executive powers.

My idea about directly electing the Taoiseach, the make up of the cabinet, and the party whip system would remove his power to pack the cabinet with yes men and his own party TDS could then vote against him without been fearful of missing out on a promotion.

Without the whip system TDs can then vote to how the people they claim to represent want them to.

There should be nothing to gain by joining a political party. In my system the people who stand out in the administration can then in turn run for head of government.

It’s living in a false reality. The problem with your system is that Government (in general) sometimes has to pass unpopular and hard legislation. Your system is a recipe for purely local politics where the national interest is subservient to what would in essence be purely local politicians. They would have no desire to act in the interest of the whole country if it makes them unpopular with the local constituents. It would be parish-pump politics in the extreme. And what happens if you get over a quarter of the House as independents? How do you accomodate those in your cabinet?

As Graham pointed out above your system is similar to that of the US, which most political commentators reckon is almost ungovernable at this point in time.

The current crisis over the fiscal cliff in the US is a perfect point. There leadership of the Republican Party is trying to come to an agreement with the President to avoid this situation which everybody agree will be a bad thing. But because the US party system is so loose the extreme wing of the Republican Party have managed to scupper so far any attempt to resolve it. The result is that if the US goes over the fiscal cliff it is likely to plunge them back into recession. Yet these extreme elements would risk that because they want to make it impossible for Obama to get anything through Congress.

Similar events would happen under your system. People may slag off the whip system and claim it is undemocratic but in order for a Taoiseach or a party to rule and lead there has to be some discipline. Otherwise you end up with a rabble.

Spot on Jim.

Robert do not hold your breath for any of the current political leaders to steer away from the path which we are on would mean they themselves and their cronies and banker buddies would have to start sharing the pain as well ,and that is something these crims do not do they never have and never will under the current system

Indeed…self-promotion…because he’s worth it.

Where have you spotted a party to the left of Maggot Hatcher and her sick bladder?The latter being the healthiest part of her.

well said Luke!
this country has been destroyed by pro-big government leftists/statists like Bertie Aherne.

Well there is a lot to be said that people who are brainwashed by being in the Dáil for so long should be barred after a few terms. Ie the likes of Enda Kenny and the bottle man Cowen who have been there for decades.

It’s called Sinn Fein!

Oh. You’ve got one.

That would go against the swinging doors and free movement of Europe, how do you propose to get around that.

No one is going to take notice of a man whose personalized Facebook username is MaddieMcCann. That says a lot about you.

Thats authoritarian uber-nationalism…go back to church cardinal. Neolibertarianism perhaps is your bag.
Matches Maggot Hatcher’s nicely.

Church has got a point, there is a vacuum for such a right-wing party in Ireland, whether you would like that or not. This is a lack of ideologically right wing TDs in the Dáil, considering how capitalistically driven Ireland is with its low corporation tax.

If he was serious about that Stephen Murray, then yes I would take it on board. Personally I’m in favour of an immigration policy that is like most of the world has, one based on economic reality and societal needs rather than the free for all wet dream of big business and the smug satisfaction of the bourgeoise left in having a Indonesian maid.

He is not though, he probably goes to the BNP forum and calls for relaxed immigration laws, goes to Libertarian sites and calls for state control and texts Joe Higgins about how great Mick Wallace is.

I dislike the way that any slightly right wing views on this site get you branded a troll , I would vote for any candidate that could bring me union busting mas deregulation capitalism with small government , we should tighten our immigration policy to skilled workers and corporate sponsoorship only, decline all asylum claims, lower taxes, lower and abolish social welfare payments and remove this nanny state entitlement attitude

So Stephen you are suggesting move to a system like in the US? I hear what you are saying but you can’t just cut social welfare, there are genuine people that need to be looked after, if we lose that then our society would suffer. It’s all about balance and for me to stop the free loaders.

More Pinochet’s neoliberal Chile than the US is what the goose-stepping one is proposing. Born again PD velvet thuggery.