Its not an unnatural concept. Its a supernatural concept, the imitation of Christ, a foregoing of a legitimate good for ‘the sake of the Kingdom’. (Contraception, now that is unnatural! What an irony.)

Contraception should be used on every conceivable ocassion!

Even as a kid I remember questioning this, how can someone advise if its not an option for them, and Im not even Catholic. I always thought it was because of the Borgias that the Catholic church went anti sex. (except in the case of producing more of the flock of course).

They were allowed married once I believe. Then corporate Rome PLC kicked into gear and the rules suddenly changed.

Wrong. Its a secondary practical spin-off, not the reason.

You do have a say, John, as all life in our country is directly affected by the catholic church.

So that the church wouldn’t have wives and offspring to look after in the event of the death of a priest. They didn’t (and don’t) want to dilute their billions….

They had many, many issues – including corruption, whereby a cleric would take on diocesan property, then bequeath to children, they had cashflow issues where a wife/children might need to be looked after if the priest died before the family (which they generally did). Finally, because a Pope said so. And you know the way god loves us so much that he spoke to us relentlessly in a language that only priests could understand…

Dont forget, the Catholic Church compiled the Bible and any authority in the Bible is onlythere because of the authority of the Church behind it. Even Martin Luther agreed with that. No Catholic Church, no Bible. An historical fact. That is why it is such an irony for protestants to quote scripture (all Catholic) to Catholics.

Irrespective of who compiled it, the Bible has been so roundly abused to peddle hate that I don;t regard it as any sort of authority any more. To me, it’s just a book. The basis principle of treating other people as you’d like to be treated is too deeply buried in there amongst stuff that pre-dates Christ by centuries.

I had just noticed that discrepancy and changed it Vanessa (and Aideen) but I’m really sorry – I know it must have confused some people. Deepest apologies,
Susan

typical women never read or hear the full question :)

I think it’ widely accepted that it wasabout succession rights Eddie. This is how the property portfolio of the church makes the British royal family look like paupers.

One reason and one reson only; Christ chose men.

That is a facetious answer, John. And I suppose you’d get your knickers in a twist if someone suggested that the choice implied he was gay.

if only men can become priests because Jesus was man then only single celibate men can become priests because Jesus was single and celibate.

@Laura: I understand what blasphemy is – and my previous post was not blasphemous. Perhaps you could ponder on the concept of wanton over-reaction. Then find yourself a good chill pill.

No implied blasphemy, Laura. And no denial either. “Choose to be damned” Are you for real? So, let me see if I understand you correctly: the all-loving, omnipotent God would “damn” someone to hell for a comment like that? Why do you turbo-powered God-botherers always make out that He is some thin-skinned hypersensative diva with no understanding of the humans He created? He really should sue you lot for sullying His name. The God I love and who created such incredible wonders bears no relation to the tantrum-throwing despot you describe. Thank God!

You obviously believe in the fluffy bunny in the sky God. The one true God made his viewpoint on homosexuality clear in Leviticus 18. He said it was an abomination. God Almighty would take great offence to your implication that His Son was gay. That is blasphemy. You will be held accountable for every thought, word and action. Read St Paul’s epistles to the Romans and to the Corinthians. He says “Work out your salvation in fear and trembling”. He also says “Make every thought obedient to the Will of God”. Jesus says “If you love Me, keep My commandments!” None of these quotes give the impression that you are free to make any comment you like about God without paying the price with your very soul. Judging on your previous comments, I fear you do not realise that Jesus IS God. God is all powerful and you should be very careful how you speak of Him.

I’m glad you mention Leviticus, Laura. First, it pre-dates the loving Christ by a signigicant chunk of time. Yes, it decries homosexuality as an abomination. However, what you also seem to be overlooing is that it also decries the eating of shellfish as an abomination, WITHOUT saying whether one is a reater abomination than the other. Leviticus would also make it OK for your father to sell you into slaveryand for people to stone to death anyone who wore clothing of mixed fibres. Same punishment for whoever plants two different crops in the same field. The Commandments, oddly, don’t touch on ANY of these proscriptions. I’ll take my “fluffy God in the sky” over any vengeful, spiteful, unloving pain-monger any day. Both Gods know my position on that. I’m confident about taking my chances.

I think you hit the nail on the head there when you said it may attract more men into the life of a priest. I think that is why the suggestion has been made in the first place….What about all the years gone by when the normal people tried to have this very discussion and were told it was not an option and would not even be discussed. Maybe if the rules were changed years ago and priest could have been allowed marry the church would not be in the position it finds itself in today…….They are trying to do anything now to get people back to the church.

And one not worth making, Colin.

There are three main issues here. 1) your friend the ex priest was not cut out to be one. Although good enough to lead a useful life, only God can judge his soul. 2) Celibacy is mentioned in the epistles of St Paul, who spoke about the ‘royal priesthood’, which is a celibate one by inference. Our Catholic Church has chosen a celibate, male priesthood based on the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself; who are we to question that? What’s good enough for the Son of God is certainly good enough for me! 3) Your lapse from your Faith is your concern. You should immediately get yourself to confession and rejoin the one true faith. You will burn in Hell unless you use the gifts given to you by God. You were not accidentally baptised. It was ordained and God has a plan for you. Catholics believe that each of us is a dignified spiritual being, put here on earth to find out and do what God has ordained for us. OK, our Church is going through a bad time right now, but that means that we must fight hard to get things righted. Not leave at the first sign of trouble and throw our hands in the air. Only cowards do this. See Revelations 12 for what happens to cowards.

One cannot renounce the complete teaching of the Catholic church because of the sins of some of the clergy – to do so shows you did not fully understand the teaching of the church in the first place

Laura, this is not the first sign of trouble! Spanish inquisition anyone?

We’d also be stoning adulterers to death and Dennys would be out of business.

The Earth is a bit too inhabited at the moment ……
and there is a lot of stuff in the Bible that would make God a first class nutter if he was responsible for it.
For a good laugh ask somebody to give you text and chapter from the Bible then check same in another language and cough ! cough! it might be completely different – whose God is right ….. ???

Just to be a bit obstreperous – pedophiles do not want sex with middle aged women – sorry ladies it’s all about power and young children .
And being a good catholic meant not reading the bloody bible because it was pornographic and it needed to be interpreted by a priest for us thicko’s ……

I read it wrong too should have voted no.

Daithi, could you please make the case for this state of affairs – I’d be genuinely interested to hear your reasoning.

What state of affairs, I’m not sure I understand you. I read the question wrong. On facebook it said “Should priests remain celibate?, so I answered yes, because I think there are too many priests Over here the question was reversed, so the pollsters made a complete dogs dinner of the poll.

Sorry Daithi – I should have been more clear. I’m trying to get an idea of what rationale there is for the celibacy requirement forced on priests to continue, because frankly I can’t think of a thing! This one has me stumped completely, so I’d like to get input from the proponents of celibacy.

Why should a death cult that eats flesh and drinks blood be saved ?

Married clergy didnt help protestant sects so it wont help catholic church either.

Daithi are you a kosher vegetarian or something?

No regular meat, veg and potatoes is my idea of heaven. And I don’t need to eat the “body and blood” to get there.

I would say that the abuse most priests have to put up with people like those writing in this forum must put good men off the priesthood, choosing to serve God in other ways. However, having said that, there is now a revival, even in Ireland, which was most hurt by the evil predators that succeeded in becoming priests. There is an increase in vocations in most places in the world and those new priests coming through the seminaries are more conservative, ie more orthodox, than the liberals that let the homos in in the first place. We can look forward to a renewal of the one true faith; the faith of our fathers; the faith people died for. How many of the liberal priests among us would die for the faith???? Most liberals believe that they should marry. Be careful what you wish for!!!

The hell thing, why are you threatening me?

Daithi. I am a humble servant of God. I cannot threaten you with Hell. According to the beliefs and teachings of the Catholic Church and many of the teachings of Jesus, Hell is described well and the sins that merit Hell are listed to a great extent. I am fairly sure that blasphemy against the Son of God would be high on the list of the sins that merit Hell. Me, threaten you? It is not me you need fear, Daithi. It is Almighty God, whom you will meet one day, hopefully after you have confessed such a blasphemy as the one you have committed here and all the rest of your deadly sins. God bless

“Humble”? Seriously? Is this satire or something?

Most, if not all priests, have mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters. They are part of a family network. They did not descend from some alien planet with no knowledge of what it is to be a family member. What rot you speak! For a man to choose to be a celibate Catholic priest, he must be called by God Himself! We, as the laity, must encourage and support our priests, not suggest that they all become Protestant vicars!!! Property rights etc do not interest the man who chooses the Catholic priesthood. Think of all the saints that threw away privilege, property and mega riches – St Francis of Assisi, St Clare – to name but two. Is your surname meaningful?

@ Cecily.. The Parish priest in my parish is a widdower… went to him about my marraige papers. he was an effin clown. on the other hand, the celibate priest who married us had more understanding of marriage than I thought any person could. in my humble experience, that would blow your arguement out of the water

Perhaps…. if we were to judge a concept on the abilities of just two examples. Its hardly exhaustive research.

“Is your surname meaningful?” Wow, Laura. How long did it take you to come up with that highly original swipe? Really, brava. You’re wasted here. I’m sure you could give a novice school bully a couple of tips in how to get started. So loving of you, so Christian.

Laura, your cover is slipping! From my study of Christianity (albeit only forty years), I don’t think that was what Jesus would say. And the claim of exclusivity as the only “True Christian Church” of the Roman Church is about as correct as Sinn Fein’s claim to be the only true republicans in Ireland.

I have to agree with Laura here. All priests have had a mother and a father. I also agree with Cecily. Of course religious sects have no place in education. If parents care that much, that’s what the Sabbath is for, be it Friday (difficult,), Saturday, or Sunday. Just because Rome filled the vacuum left by London in this republic, yes, republic, 80+ years ago doesn’t mean it’s too late to put it right.

Aren’t you forgetting all of the sins being committed by such priests? What about deceit, lies, fornication? Remember what St Paul says – do not be fooled, no immoral person will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. You seem to have a very lax attitude towards morality yourself. Celibacy is not for everyone; only for those who are called to the life of the priest; to serve God in a very unGodly world – this all caused by immorality, greed and people like you who really don’t care about anything and certainly do not believe in God.

*imposition of. Gosh, my typing’s gone to hell today, hasn’t it?

Hi Barry,
Yes, apologies for that – was quickly changed (but not quickly enough!)
See reply to Vanessa above.
Sorry again if it caused confusion,
Susan

Old, tired argument. Look up the lives of the saints of the Catholic Church. How many of them gave a fig for property?

…implying the wife is therefore just an object to be used to relieve some sexual tension? Thats not a good reason to marry.

This is Ireland Roos. The church’s problems have a way of becoming ours.

Oh, I know, David. I have been living here for over 13 years, and am very involved in local life, and I think I can say I know a little bit about Ireland now. I have my own opinion about celibacy, but because I have given up on the Catholic Church, or any other, I don’t think it’s my place to give opinions on what they should or shouldn’t do.

Roos, if you are enjoying life in Ireland, please be aware that the Catholic Church is largely involved in everything cultural about Ireland. Even if it is purely worldly on your part; credit where credit is due. Or is it just that you would find it difficult to say anything good about the Catholic Church?

As they say “a closed mouth gathers no foot!”

I think they should allow nuns to marry and allow women to become priests, and men become nuns.

AGREED! There is absolutely NO sound reason or logic why a woman should not become a priest.

Can you really be making a serious point, I wonder? Surely nuns who marry would be married women with families!! Therefore, not nuns!! Celibacy was not dreamt up as a discouragement of homosexuality. Really, do you really think this? Where did you get this idea? Can you research this and find some article that said this? I would be very curious to know. Then, the average life span??? Actually, celibacy comes from the traditions of the Catholic Church, based on the teachings of St Paul, the apostle to the gentiles and the fact that Jesus said “Unless you can leave father, mother, sisters, brothers, wife….” etc “Then you are not worthy of Me”. Ours is the Royal priesthood, as St Paul says. Celibacy is about sacrifice and about the spiritual life of priests. Their detachment from regular family life, with all its commitments, is essential for the life of our Church. Hope I have enlightened you. God bless.

Oh, I know, David. I have been living here for over 13 years, and am very involved in local life, and I think I can say I know a little bit about Ireland now. I have my own opinion about celibacy, but because I have given up on the Catholic Church, or any other, I don’t think it’s my place to give opinions on what they should or shouldn’t do.

this was meant to be an answer to David Conroy, sarry!

Haha oxymoron! Yay

This is a worldly argument against marriage for a priest. Good, as it goes. However, celibacy in the priesthood is not a worldly idea. It is spiritual requirement. When a man decides to be a Catholic priest, he renounces the world – all of the things of the world, including owning his own house, having a wife and children. He does so for the love of Jesus Christ. The best of priests do not belong to the world – as Jesus said about His apostles. They have only spiritual concerns, both for themselves and for their flock. The, by now old, argument about ‘priest raping our children’ as one Irish blogger said, is a misunderstanding of the Child Abuse scandal. Most of the priests involved were homosexual peadophiles. These evil men entered the priesthood under the liberalised rules, where those who knew well these were homosexuals were not allowed to say anything negative about it. What we need is more clarity and honesty from bishops, and a distinct fear of homosexuals entering the priesthood. Celibacy has nothing to do with child abuse. By its very nature, it is a safeguard against sexual abuse! Derrrrrrr!

Wow, Laura, for someone who tries to make out they’re a christian, you spout some SERIOUSLY hateful crap. Shame on you.

These are the facts, Miss Hoare. Look it up. If it is hateful, it is because the truth of the Child Abuse Scandal is hateful – especially to homosexuals.

Anyone who was involved in the cover-up of these horrendous crimes are equally responsible for the repeat offences. Sean Brady is one.

What about Vicars ? They have wives and do most of the above if not more in their daily lives, along with being a husband, father ( if he has children) and preacher !! I do not see your point…

Yes Ann, that is a fair point. However, the role of the Vicar is somewhat different. The emphasis on the last rights in the case of those near death is not as strong, therefore the vicar tends not to be called out in the middle of the night (certainly not as much as the priest). I know i am speaking only of the Irish context here, but typically if someone comes across a fatal accident (firemen or ambulance crews) they tend to call a priest and not a vicar, and thirdly the vitriolic attacking of all priests with one brush does not apply to vicars. In essence, the role of the vicar is significantly different to that of the priest. In fact i know one vicar, a really great guy, who is a former catholic priest. He would say the same thing.

This is a worldly argument against marriage for a priest. Good, as it goes. However, celibacy in the priesthood is not a worldly idea. It is spiritual requirement. When a man decides to be a Catholic priest, he renounces the world – all of the things of the world, including owning his own house, having a wife and children. He does so for the love of Jesus Christ. The best of priests do not belong to the world – as Jesus said about His apostles. They have only spiritual concerns, both for themselves and for their flock. The, by now old, argument about ‘priest raping our children’ as one Irish blogger said, is a misunderstanding of the Child Abuse scandal. Most of the priests involved were homosexual peadophiles. These evil men entered the priesthood under the liberalised rules, where those who knew well these were homosexuals were not allowed to say anything negative about it. What we need is more clarity and honesty from bishops, and a distinct fear of homosexuals entering the priesthood. Celibacy has nothing to do with child abuse. By its very nature, it is a safeguard against sexual abuse! Derrrrr!

With regards to Ann Rogers’ point about vicars. Vicars are part of the Protestant Churches – 40,000 different sects and still counting. To compare a vicar to a priest is simplistic, to say the least. Protestants agree with everything the world demands – abortion, contraception, divorce, remarriage and homosexuality, which they welcome into their churches. Priests endeavour to live lives according to the teaching of Our Lord Jesus Christ as ordained by the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church, which comes to us in a direct line from St Peter. Our Church is a spiritual domain not a worldly one. It really does need to be remembered that Catholics are asked to serve Jesus and not the whims and fashions of the world, which is, after all, fallen from Grace. The Devil can be seen quite clearly in Protestantism and this increasingly Atheistic and secular world. God spare us if we lose our male and celibate priesthood – the one handed down from Jesus Himself.

If priest could marry and live a "normal" life like th rest of us, there would probably be more of them, which in turn would reduce the number of nights they would need to be called out. An on call system could be set up.

Laura, celibacy was established in the church 1000 years ago, 1000 years after Jesus. Peter, the first pope was married? No?

Yes, St Peter was married when he was called by Jesus. But he left his home to follow Jesus. He also left his livelihood and everything that tied him to this world. He was crucified like Our Lord, only this humble man chose to be crucified upside down, so as not to dare to immitate Our Lord. Jesus asks a lot from those who will follow Him. Only those of the world see wives, homes, livelihoods etc as bigger callings than that of our Risen Lord. All of the apostles were called to leave everything and follow Christ. Our wonderful celibate priests endeavour to do the same.

John, where do you get your information from? Celibacy was introduced by the Catholic Church around 3-400 years after Christ. This is only a sign of development within the understanding of the Church as to what was required. Most of the saints from the time of Jesus were celibate, understanding that they needed to be free from all encumbrances to freely follow Christ. Their example informed our Church Fathers. The celibacy of the priests of the Catholic Church is an example to the whole world. Devout Catholic priests are the light of the world, as Jesus meant them to be. But there are many today who strive to put out that light.

Not all of us “don’t go to mass or church”, Brendan. Please don’t count me among that number.

There is no third letter to Timothy AFAIK…?????? just one and two…??

@bethehokies I think that “!” was supposed to be a “1″. 1 Timothy 3 does actually mention marriage. :)

@Tom… ahha! I must go to the loft and dust down the good book and have a wee gander!