This is a democracy, no one is above the law, a dog collar or church dogma cannot be allowed to hide these perverted criminals!!

On several occasions now, the Vatican has refused to cooperate with state inquiries. This behaviour from another sovereign state is unacceptable, and marks it out as a state that is hostile to the rule of law in Ireland.
The only acceptable response to their action is to sever diplomatic relations with that state, remove any diplomatic immunity they have, and expel its ambassador the Papal Nuncio.

I thought the excuse the Papal Nuncio gave after the last report is that he’s there to represent the Vatican City *state*, not the church itself. I don’t think that excuse should be allowed and a strong message should be sent that the catholic church does not run this country.

“Gilmore has said that the government will continue to demand a formal explanation from the Vatican, saying “we’re not going to let it rest”.”

This is exactly what is needed. No more pussy footing around this disgusting institutional abuse.

I also think the new law should go further and make ANY serious crime (not just child abuse) reportable and exempt from the protection of the “confessional”.

We need a secular state now! Where people are allowed to practise whatever religion they wish to follow but where crimes ARE CRIMES.

Kick him out immediately, we must NOT tolerate interference in the laws of the country by another state. It’s a no brainer, his master in Rome through a secret letter to Irish bishops and clergy in effect told them to ignore the laws of Ireland and to carry on abusing or covering up for abusers, this is subversion of the highest order and if the Irish govt. does not act appropriately and expel the representative of the foreign state involved then it looks weak and sends a message to other states that might want to silence views or hinder people in Ireland whose views are incompatible with their interests, think Israel for example. The Irish govt, must put up or shut up when it comes to this and the future of an embassy in the Vatican, we already have one in Rome anyway so why do we need one in the Vatican, just so the likes of Cowen can go there to feel all pious and holy? Time to make a stand and grew some balls Mssrs Kenny & Gilmore

I can’t help but think there’s an element of hypocrisy here. On one hand, there’s all these 20 and 30 somethings that think they’re ultra liberal and they’re rightfully condemning the Catholic Church for its horrific crimes and the continued cover up. BUT….. when it comes to getting married, why is it that so many of these people choose to do so in Catholic Churches? And why do so many of them choose to baptise their children Catholic? And why do so many of them send their kids to Catholic schools and then their children also make their communion and confirmations. And throw a census form on front of them and they’ll be quick enough to tick the Catholic box. And stick a Trocaire collection box on front of them and they’ll throw money in it. The excuses you get for the above are usually things like ‘My granny would be upset if I didn’t get married in a Catholic Church’ or ‘Well a Church wedding is just so much nicer’ and ‘I’m baptising him because it’ll help him get into the local school’ and ‘all the other kids are making their communion. don’t want little Sophie feeling left out’.

I’m not condemning people from doing what they do, but I can’t help but think that we’re kidding ourselves about our relationship with the Catholic Church. The crimes of the Catholic Church are truly disgusting. The Catholic Church has destroyed so many lives and instilled fear in the Irish people. Single mothers, children born outside of wedlock, gay people and others were condemned and ostracised by these people, many of whom were prepared to cover up the rape and abuse of children to protect the organisation instead of protecting the innocent victims. Yet, we as a nation (yes i’m generalising) still want our children to be (a la carte) Catholic it seems. I really don’t understand it.

The Papal Nuncio is the diplomatic representative of the Vatican State in Ireland. Removing the religious aspect from the picture,if a Diplomat from another country covered up and colluded and withheld evidence pertaining to a child abuse scandal, What do you think Ireland would do?
Time for the State to grow a pair and show its responsibility to its citizens and discipline ALL concerned .
Bishops and all religious while responsible and answerable to the Vatican as their employers are firstly answerable to the State as citizens of such.
Time to send a clear message to the Vatican that empty rhetoric and apologies are not enough and the time has come for clear and decisive action on their part. If they have to “Clean House” in a major way then so be it.

If your a religion believing in invisible things, your an ideology of the mind, if your a state, your a body consisting of buildings and physical people living in them – and where they rest and be, that land is applicable to laws of the land and constitution – if you like it or not!
…And Rome does not like this realistic principle – so it conveniently ignores it.

All valid points folks, but ask yourself, if the matter was put to a referendum, what would the choice of the voting public be? I reckon the Papal Nuncio would, and will still be here for quite some time. Hard to see the Government taking a solid stance on this either. People are angered and the Govt have to be seen to be acting on their behalf, but I fear these are hollow words from a reactive leadership who will do as little as Bertie et al did a decade ago. I hope I’m wrong. We’ve all had enough of empty promises.

The very same church so quick to condemn others,riddled with perverted priests,and unable to police itself…. a complete shame and shambles.

i don’t understand shouldn’t it already be illegal not to report child abuse. why do we need to change the law on this?

Expelling merely one of these delusional paedo assisting scumbags is not enough…but it would be a good place to begin

What has Israel got to do with this. They forged passports yes but so too have the US, Russia, the Brits and probably half the intelligence services in the western world. It’s annoying but certainly not on the same scale as covering up child abuse! This sort of argument throws people off topic and only muddies the waters.

Yes

No. But he should be taken to Court to explain why he is Covering up. And the Catholic Church should foot the Bill for all the Wrongs they have committed not only in Ireland but everywhere they have Committed these Crime’s. After all they have their own bloody Bank in the Vatican, and no shortage of Money with them.

This is all making Henry VIII look like a nice guy

I often wonder does the pope believe in god. He could be just fooling us all to hold onto power. He is the head of an Empire after all.

Irish Christianity’s best days were over 1,000 years ago when it was a Celtic Church – austere, far less worldly and independent of the venal influence of Rome. Once a church becomes associated with wealth and privilege, the corruption seeps in and its leaders will do anything to protect their power.

It’s quite clear that the Vatican is ruled by deeply flawed people and for any remaining Roman Catholics out there, surely isn’t it obvious that you don’t need them to tell you how to be a good Christian? Surely isn’t it obvious you’d be a lot better off without them?

Forget the nuncio, Exile those who were involved in the cover up of these crimes, the perversion of justice and the commitment of these crimes back to the nation state who asked them to cover it up i.e the vatican, and confiscate their assets- let the vatican be responsible for their imprisonment,welfare costs and keeping them from contact with the public, ensuring they may not leave the confine of that state for life . It happened to Catholic ‘Saints’ in the past, these are anything but saints but short of more extreme measures that’s the least that should happen!

..and now we have the Cloyne Report to highlight the inability of the church to take action against the criminals within the cloister.

Expelliarmus. I can’t see it happening but he should be expelled. Would demonstrate a seriousness about tackling this issue. Where’s the 23 other diocesan reports tho?

The Papal nuncio was doing what a functionary does : playing a straight bat in order to deflect the rightful opprobrium which the Vatican knew was coming their way . As a man , one would hope he spends sleepless nights squirming in the knowledge that he has publicly engaged in a cynical exercise in the most vile hypocrisy . As a christian ; he would to well to look to himself . As a sovereign nation ; we should send him from whence he came . Go ! For God’s sake ; go !

cliques and cults, dangerous evilness . that what one gets, savagery, bruitality,

Church has ruled Ireland for so long, they still think they’re above the law & previous Governments were afraid to interfere.. Let’s hope this Gov. tells them exactly what most of us think of church after the 3 Reports. Let the vatican know that their crimes are not going to be forgotten. By their silence they think the problems will just fade away.. Action is needed. It’s embarrassing to be belong to this “catholic” country.

Hi ya

Here a radio show I co produced on “Church and State: How they made society silent
http://www.mixcloud.com/Soundmigration/the-church-and-state-how-they-made-society-silent/

Radio Solidarity explores the recent rupture between people and the Irish Catholic Church due to the recent turmoil and revelations which have been exposed.

We talk to Diarmuid Ferritter on the very singular role that the Church played in moulding and dealing with Social Policy from the start of the State.

Mary McAuliffe from the organisation Justice For Magdalenes speaks about the extent that the State and the Church were complicit in the brutalisation and enslavement of generations of young women.

Mark heads out onto the streets with a microphone to find out how people feel about the church in the light of recent scandal and cover-ups. The subsidiary role allotted to women in Irish society thanks to the Church is illustrated and spoken about by Dr. Helen Keyes and Mannix Flynn about how he feels we can best move on as a society

As anarchists we encourage the free sharing of info . Additional interviews, materials etc can be found at http://radio-solidarity.wsm.ie

@news_va_en is the Vatican’s twitter account. Have they mentioned anything of the Papal Nuncio in Ireland?

expelled to where, he should be locked up behind bars, the Vatican helped the natazies, looks like they at it again, sunnysouth america , perhaps, and catch them when they are too old to care,,

How do you know who said what in the confession boxes?

Expel catholicism. Burn the churches.

Support the Facebook groups and if you all feel strongly make sure to let the government and your local TD’s and Catholic churches know in writing or by emailing them.
GROUP ONE
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Expel-the-Papal-Nuncio-from-Ireland/185783198147466
GROUP TWO
http://www.facebook.com/groups/186233218119

The church should be burned on the cross. Nobody gives a f*ck about them.

Dissapear

Some of the comments on here are so idiotic. Burn the church etc. These people are no better than the ones who burned witches hundreds of years ago. Fools the lot of them. Not all of the clergy are responsible for the actions of a few.

The Columbia three had forged passports too, what did we do about that?

Please join ‘Close down the Irish Embassy to the Vatican / Holy See on Facebook
thanks

all bishops and archbishops,nuncio, church child protection agencies, school managers should be summoned to goffs and sold off OR summoned to the Aras and told to ‘shape up or get out’ then the Aras too can get out and the Aras can be the new redevelopment for children in distress. yep, i have it there, brill ann, brill but better than bad language, etc etc etc….and who said them words?

who is Charlie Flannagan? there is unkindness to the cathloic church, should we just give up on God???
I think we are going way OTT on this abuse reporting it did happen and the church has delt with it, what do you all want the church to do???