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Dublin: 14 °C Monday 20 May, 2013

Poll: Should the words ‘fianna fáil’ be dropped from the national anthem?

Michael Noonan says the party was founded after the anthem was translated – but should we stop singing the words anyway?

THE GOVERNMENT has ruled out the prospect of changing the national anthem to remove the words ‘fianna fáil’ from the opening line, after calls from TDs to consider editing the words.

Independent Maureen O’Sullivan and Fine Gael backbencher Derek Keating had both suggested changing the lyrics so that they did not include the name of a political party, with Keating also asking for a review of the Defence Forces’ ‘FF’ logo.

Ministers say they won’t entertain such requests, however, because the most common Irish translation of Amhrán na bhFiann was written in 1917 – nine years before Éamon de Valera left Sinn Féin to set up his political party, Fianna Fáil.

There is no official Irish language translation of the anthem, however, because the State only owns the copyright to the music and the original English lyrics written in 1907 by Peadar Kearney and Patrick Heeney.

But with the prominence of the political party of the same name – and with no ‘official’ Irish words to change – should we bring in a formal version that don’t include the words ‘fianna fáil’?

Should the words ‘fianna fáil’ be dropped from the National Anthem?


Poll Results:





No plans to remove ‘Fianna Fáil’ from anthem or Defence Forces logo, says govt

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Comments (153 Comments)

  • Stupid idea, put forward by people who should be working on getting the country back on its feet. The Defence Forces’ emblem traces its lineage from the Irish Volunteers and the beginnings of Irish freedom…..would the TDs rewrite history as well???

    This is tripe, pure and simple

    Reply
  • Considering the anthem came before the party, it’s the “Fianna Fail” party that needs to change its name.

    Suggestions anyone?

    Reply
  • Ciaro 05/02/12 #

    Derek keating, former FAS supervisor, member of Fianna fail, member of the progressive democrats, member of fine Gael.
    age: 56
    Favourite song: I still haven’t found what I’m looking for!

    Reply
  • “Amhrán na bhFiann was written in 1917 – six years before Éamon de Valera left Sinn Féin to set up his political party, Fianna Fáil.”

    Fianna Fáil were founded at the La Scala theatre in Dublin in 1926, 9 years after Amhrán na bhFiann was written.

    Reply
  • Ridiculous!

    Reply
    • What a pretty face and beautiful Gaelic name….indeed, these are the jesters and traitors which give away more of your country and sovereignty daily. When you take your country and republic back, which you will, then your anthem will echo throughout the world and your stand will be celebrated for generations to come. All of which can be achieved without a hand being raised, violence is to be abhorred, simple mathematics and numbers in motion is all that will be necessary when the time comes.

      Reply
    • I agree…stupid suggestion. National anthem is well above this kind of thing….no matter what names are in it (I’m totally anti FF by the way)

      Reply
    • I agree . Ridiculous suggestion .Do these politicians have nothing better to
      do with their time and efforts . The words Fianna Fail is part of the song. I
      too am very much anti FF ailures… We have more important issues to consider.
      Do not allow them to distract you . Do not allow them to divide you .

      As JustDieter says : —-
      .”… When you take your country and republic back, which you will, then your anthem will echo throughout the world and your stand will be celebrated for generations to come. All of which can be achieved without a hand being raised, violence is to be abhorred, simple mathematics and numbers in motion is all that will be necessary when the time comes”…….

      Stand up ,shout out enough is enough . Don’t register , don’t pay the house hold charge.
      We can achieve if we all stand together :)

      Reply
    • why not make the political party change it’s name instead? my suggestion for “re-branding” the name of the party is just to remove the first part (fianna) from the present name, and leave the last part (fail) in place, as this would sum up the party perfectly.

      Reply
    • Get rid of the collective of criminals and traitors that are FF. They are the problem not the name.

      Reply
  • B7584 05/02/12 #

    Typical Irish political small time bullshit.
    Im no fan of ANY party but this is just typical of the idiots that are in government/opposition. Morons.

    Reply
  • Would someone tell me what is the English translation of ‘fianna fáil’.I put it in Google translator and it says “deer found” doesnt really make sense to me!

    Reply
  • Is this the 1st of April??

    Reply
  • This trivial ridiculous matter is something that our politicians think they should spend their time on? I’m not even surprised any more.

    Reply
  • How the f**k does religion get dragged into every topic that is discussed on the Journal, for people who claim not to want anything to do with it you seem to talk about it a lot …………. Next please

    Reply
  • It would be a travesty if the anthem was changed.

    Reply
  • Derek Keating you are a reasonable guitarist, but, not a very effective representative just like a lot of your colleauges. So many of you trivialise real politics. Bear in mind you are all grossly over paid for what you do, there are people who have to be on duty up to 14 hours a day to earn in a week what you get in a day, and I’m not even counting your grossly extended holidays. It makes your outrage at the cut backs rather disingenous. Even the Independant (stephan donnelly) was forced to with draw his proposed legislation so that your party can claim credit for it on the promise that it will be included in the government’s own proposal.

    Reply
  • As someone who has never voted for Fianna Fail and is likely to never do so, i think this is a preposterous proposal.All it is is a bunch of words we now, unfortunately, rarely speak coinciding with the name of a political party.

    Reply
  • Make FF change their flipping name. Typical of them robbing the warriors of destiny tag from our national anthem. Our anthem should not be changed under any circumstances.

    Question for those who voted YES:
    Is it beyond us to stand our ground and stop bending the knee? Why do we continue to roll over?

    Reply
  • Under no circumstances should the national anthem be amended. It is what it is and its very purpose represents the spirit and resilience of the Irish people. You can’t change history and neither does the meaning of Amhrann Na Bhfiann.

    Reply
  • Get a grip people. What’s next.. Banning the Irish language coz ze Germans don’t recognise it??

    Reply
  • oh for god sake… will people ever get a grip….. whats all this rubbish about us having to change everything about our nation so all the multi nationals living in the country feel more welcomed… the country is called IRELAND… we have an anthem,a flag and a language… when you arrive in the country the sign in the airport says Failte…. so your welcome from the minute you arrive… the club is called IRELAND…if you join the club you play by the rules…
    try going to America and saying…. sorry i dont like the name of the country or the anthem you sing… i dont feel very welcomed by it…id say you’d be told…”well the plane you arrived on will take you back from where you came from”….

    Reply
    • @Eric de Red
      Maybe dead to you Eric! Not to me :-)

      Reply
    • @Proinsias
      The language is your hobby and you are most welcome to it. However the language is not the language of the people and the state’s anthem should reflect this.

      Reply
    • @The kop well said and this has been a problem for years. We are a nation in our own right and the sooner we accept this we will rise above this doom and gloom. I am very proud to be Irish I am proud of My Irish Flag and when i hear My National Anthem played where ever I Always stand 10foot tall At the moment i am not proud of the Government and they way they are behaving and bringing the Irish to our knees at home and abroad

      Reply
  • 05/02/12 #

    The Irish Army cap badge has at its centre the words Fianna Fáil (Sons of Destiny) surrounded by the belt of bondage on which are the words Óglaig na hÉireann, Irish Volunteers, surrounded by the star of Hope and then the Sunburst of Victory. You will make no changes to this!

    Reply
  • Fianna Fáil, the Sons of Destiny, predates the political party of the same name so maybe you should ask them to change their name! We have more important issues to concern us these days than this.

    Reply
  • its a childish suggestion

    Reply
  • Our national anthem was not written to represent the people of today’s Fianna Fáil, nor does it represent Fine Gael or Labour. We changed the people who tried to sully a great country. Changing our national anthem is not the answer because that beautiful song is there and reminds us of our courage to overcome evils and traitors. I respect the anthem, and if truth be known, it’s about the one thing left from Old Ireland today that has true value.

    Reply
  • fianna fail should be dropped from a cliff

    Reply
  • An alternative is “Laochra Fáil”, I’ve heard it a fair bit in Donegal.

    Reply
  • Our national language is not dead. People in Russia are,learning it & Des Bishop is a perfect example. It is a beautiful language to listen to. I wish i could speak it properly. If all the anti irish language commenters could speak it you would understand its value. It is now our only identity difference between us & the English

    Reply
  • Keep the anthem, drop the party!

    And @Ruaidhri, the anthem is just fine as gaelige. It’s the last thing right now which we can call our own before we have to sing Deutschland Uber Alles or (even worse) God Save the Bloody Queen.

    Reply
  • It’s all about context. The words fianna fail in the anthem are not a reference to the party, so it is a non-issue in my opinion. Context is everything. No-one can claim that every time the word republican is mentioned it is a reference to the US republican party, so this should be the same.

    Reply
  • easier to just ban fianna fail from irish politics

    Reply
  • We don’t need a poll….. We need an election!

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  • I often favour the words ‘sinne laochra fáil’. This alternative interpretation has been knocking around since 1938 or so. I suppose it should be added that the current official line pre-dates the formation of Fianna Fáil the political party and is thus unconnected to them. I voted yes in the poll, but in reality I don’t believe that it makes a huge difference. I don’t associate the lyric with the political party and therefore it presents no great issue for me in the first place.

    Reply
  • I cannot believe we voted in the government and they actually had the cheek to even suggest something that nobody cares about! keep the anthem! go and debate proper bloody issues!

    Reply
  • Yes and Beyonce should do the new version.

    Reply
  • Is this a joke?

    Reply
  • The version I learnt in school was Sinne Laochra Fáil.

    Reply
  • O’Sullivan and Keating? first i’ve heard of them. I would have thought a year into their term that they would have more important things to do then question names that have been around since the foundation of the State. Journal.ie should check the report cards of this pair!

    Reply
  • frank what is your constant issue in post after post with our people’s native language? did you fail Irish? you are one of those self loathing Irish who wish they were English, please vacate Ireland for your beloved England.

    Reply
  • Leave it to the Blueshirts! Every year there is some new idea out of the depths of Blueshirt self-loathing(can’t blame them in way, if I was a Blueshirt I’d loathe myself too!) to drop/change/replace the National Anthem. Can’t they just accept the face that the vast majority of Irish people like and accept the Anthem as it is.
    Do you ever hear this revisionist crap coming from the States or Britain(excluding Scotland and Wales of course) or France or Canada?
    If these chancers want to run for office, let them get the finger out and do waht they were elected to do-govern! Otherwise just shut up!!

    Reply
  • Hopefully Leo Veradker and the Healy Reas will join this debate and cheer us all up.

    Reply
  • jimbo 05/02/12 #

    Just put all of FF on a plane and drop them off in the bermuda triangle,PROBLEM SOLVED.

    Reply
  • EM 06/02/12 #

    Here’s a better idea…get rid of Fianna Fáil and while we’re at it Fine Gael. Old tribal politics have failed us!

    p.s. leave the anthem alone, it’s perfectly fine as it is. When it comes to raising passions before a rugger match or on All-Ireland day in Croker Amhrán na bhFiann does the job very well!

    Reply
  • Are we actually paying those 2 idiots to represent us. Why the hell should we change our national anthem theirs fools in this country there real is. And what will we replace the national anthem with blarney was a dinosaur or some other ridiculous song with no meaning and lets change the DF cap badge to a love heart or something like that so all the PC brigade are happy. I’d love to know what some people are smoking ,absolute #ull#hit

    Reply
  • FF should change their name. they should not be shown the respect of changing lyrics of the anthem

    Reply
  • Anthem
    by Randolph Healy

    Sheen a fin with oil
    A tall failed owl egg roaring
    Beaned arse loo
    Hard town dull redneck cooing
    Fair void we share
    Chant here our shins’ hair faster
    Knee hog fur fine here enough faint trawl
    An auk to aim save our naff whale
    Begone Argyle cowboy’s shoe nail
    Leg on ask rake fey lark nobble air
    Surely corny our awning veal.

    Reply
  • the Dianna failed party should be outlawed and its corrupt members made examples if by having all their ill gotten assets stripped from them and their families!

    Reply
  • It should be changed from Fianna Fail to Laochra Fail (not sure I spelled it correctly) It in no way invalidates the Anthem.

    Reply
  • did u ever here the like of this shit it wood answer these t d s to sort the country out is this what we pay these wasters for. also another shit head in kerry worried about the numbers plates on cars next year what a load of shit we have to pay for’ g
    GOD HELP US WHAT CAN WE DO

    Reply
  • in ulster you’ll hear laochra f

    Reply
  • The FF party that is being represented in the song bear no representation of the shower of wankers that ruined this country 2day… They would of been executed back in the day for betraying their country and greed.
    The FF should not be written out because of the situation 2day..

    Reply
  • The kop 06/02/12 #

    it’s perfect for raising passions before a rugby match….. and then we have Ireland’s call to deflate them again….
    what rubbish……

    Reply
  • The only Irish people that matter today, are those that are alive today.
    The Irish people of today are the ones who allow Fine Gael and Labour to remain in government even after they back tracked on every single election promise they made.
    The Irish people of today are the ones who are allowing this country to be sold off piece by piece to pay back a debt that we don’t owe.
    The Irish people of today would, in my view anyway, be a huge disappointment to the people who gave their lives to ensure that Irish people would be able determine the destiny of this country.
    The Irish people of today are the ones that are responsible for the state of this country when it is handed over to the Irish people of tomorrow.

    Reply
  • you all seem to forget the good things that FF have done in the past. No matter what party is in power there will always be ups and downs. Any Irish person should consider themselves lucky that our governments are not extreme murdering corrupt dictaterships. Dropping FF from our anthem is a pathetic suggestion.

    Reply
  • There should be an “I don’t care” option. Because I don’t.

    Reply
  • My nephew at 4 years old is learning Irish and Religion in school.
    What a waste of time and potential.
    Children at that age have brains like sponges and provided the material is given to them in a way they can digest, they can learn nearly anything.
    Polish is the unofficial 2nd language of this country after English, and Irish is something we just keep for the tourists, so, unless children are living in Gaeltacht areas, they should be taught Polish instead.
    Learning prayers is useless too. No religion whatsoever should be taught in any schools funded by the government using tax payers money. Religion should be kept completely separate from school. If people want to brainwash their children, then they should do it themselves at the weekends.

    Reply
  • Fascist much?

    Reply
  • It’s the wrong question. Even if we had a nation any more–which we don’t–it’s a crappy tune and it always was. When/if we ever recover our independence, the first item on the agenda should be a totally new national anthem.

    Reply
    • How about the ‘Muppets’ theme song?…..

      Reply
    • It’s time to play the music
      It’s time to light the lights
      t’s time to meet the Muppets on the Muppet Show tonight.

      It’s time to put on makeup
      It’s time to dress up right
      It’s time to raise the curtain on the Muppet Show tonight.

      Why do we always come here
      I guess we’ll never know
      It’s like a kind of torture
      To have to watch the show

      And now let’s get things started
      Why don’t you get things started
      It’s time to get things started
      On the most sensational inspirational celebrational Muppetational
      This is what we call the Muppet Show!

      (Enda blows on his trumpet)

      Reply
  • Maybe it’s time to change the anthem altogether? It has never been an appropriate song for a country that prefers music and peace to the march of the war drums, or the ‘roar’ and ‘peal’ of ‘cannons’ and ‘rifles’…After all, Ireland is the only country in the world whose flag has long portrayed a musical instrument, the harp, a classical symbol of peace.
    That would be a good poll for the Journal too- ‘What song should replace Amhran na bhFiann as modern Ireland’s national anthem?’

    Reply
    • If you think that Amhrán na bhFiann is bad, check out La Marseillaise, which was quite rightly originally called “Chant de guerre pour l’Armée du Rhin” (War song for the Army of the Rhine).

      Ireland has had a pretty bloody history. Just because things seem fine and dandy now, doesn’t mean that we should try and deny the sacrifices made for our sake by those in the distant past.

      Reply
    • Yes, and the French still rise up in anger frequently, if their daily public strikes are anything to go by. Ireland rose only 7 times in as many centuries against tyranny.. Surely, that demonstrates a national reluctance to go to war? I’m not saying to deny history, but I am saying that most of these anthems (France’s included) are dated and need replacing, in concurrence with the ever-moving zeitgeist of the societies they are supposed to reflect. Anthems like La Marseillaise and Amhran na bhFian are hardly fitting material for ball games and other peacetime activities. Not all traditions need preserving, and we are better off without some.

      Reply
    • Shawn :
      I have to disagree with you . Why should any of us deny our history ?
      Our past made us into who we are today , and it is my belief that it is
      because of that history ,people will not demonstrate ,or voice our opinions.
      We are afraid that we will be branded ”trouble makers”.
      It is not wrong to express your opinion,be it anger , disappointment , hurt, respect or even love ….

      Reply
    • Eileen, I’m not sure exactly what you are disagreeing with, as I don’t believe I was saying that we need to deny our history (read the passage again), but I was saying that such bloodthirsty anthems are inappropriate for peacetime activities. If we had songs that glorified peace, and all the blessings that flow from it, then perhaps humans would be less inclined to make war upon each other. History does not need to be forgotten (nor should it be), but the violence in our history need not be glorified. Instead, it should be seen for what it really is: a tragedy.

      Reply
    • Shawn. There is nothing blood thirsty about our national anthem. It is actually very inclusive. Get a translation online. I love it.

      Reply
    • EM 06/02/12 #

      All,
      Don’t forget, the actual Anthem is only the chorus of Amhrán na bhFiann.

      Reply
  • How about changing the words to “Deutschland Deutschland uber alles”………

    Reply
  • To reflect our new multicultural society and the increasing number of people arriving here every year to call this country home, and the increasong number of Irish people emigrating, the national anthem should be scrapped altogether and a new one should be written.
    The Irish language should also be scrapped except in Gaeltacht areas where we need it for tourism. It would make more sense to have our children taught Chinese or a European language instead. ( German and Polish would be very handy, but Bulgarian and Romanian will be necessities to prepare for 2014 ). One of the common African languages would also come in handy.
    We should also consider renaming the country too.
    Not sure on the numbers, but there are probably more people speaking Polish in Ireland everyday than Irish. If that’s the case, then we should make Polish the second official language after English. Having Irish as an official language here is a joke.

    Reply
    • No if they see themselves as Irish they should sing our anthem with pride once they get citizenship they are irish citizens it does not matter where they are from. Irish citizenship is very much sought after.many european countries are multicultural and its great but that does not mean a country should loose its identity, new citizens become part of the identity if Ireland.if you moved to America and became a citizen you would sing theirs,

      Reply
    • Yeah, because every other country is forgetting their culture, who they are and where they came from to accommodate other nationalities? It’s ridiculous to suggest that we should do these things in order for people to feel welcome here, no other country is doing/being asked to do this! Is it not the diversity of the different cultures coming into Ireland mixed with ours that makes it multicultural? It’s essential for us to keep our culture alive otherwise it would just become one large false culture. perhaps you want us to become our neighbours? People like you should be shipped out!

      Reply
    • Barry Lynch
      i have read and re read your comment and still cannot know if you are being serious or sarcastic .
      If you are serious then I am ashamed for you . I can feel your disillusionment tho and maybe you should start being more positive and fight back. !

      Reply
    • Yes what does any of this silly anthem mean anyhow? Replace it with something in a language actually spoken in Ireland, like English, Polish or even Chinese!

      Reply
    • I reckon we just need to look at how Irish is taught..
      I never had any love for Irish at school my teacher was boring and as a result so were the classes..
      I went out with a guy from Conemara and found the fact he conversed in Irish quite funny, it was only as I approached my 30s that I started to appreciate my own language more. It’s a very poetic and beautiful language, and the way it’s structured gives great insight into the Irish persona. I wish I could speak it now.

      Had I had an engaging and passionate teacher (perhaps if they’d been a native Irish speaker) I think I would have done better..

      Reply
    • @Barry: Is this a joke or a troll perhaps?
      Seriously asking…

      Reply
    • Barry is real Paul. Shanti, very true.

      Reply
  • Drop it, We need a real anthem not a soldiers song. I hate our national Anthem and would refuse to sing it.

    Reply
  • change it to loch garman

    Reply
  • The opening line of the anthem should be changed all together to “it’s peanut butter jelly time!”

    Reply
  • We should stop sponsoring Irish as it is a real luxury. The language won’t die as people who love it will keep it alive. The anthem is another thing that should be in English and lets move on.

    Reply
  • I can’t see why we can’t use “God save the Queen”

    Reply
  • The Shinners have been singing “Laochra Gael” in the song for years instead of “Fianna Fáil”

    Don’t really see it as an issue whether it’s official or not… if people want to sing a slightly different lyric let them at it… The fact that it isnt official hasn’t stop Sinn Féin from basterdising the song for years at party conferences!

    Reply

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