What I want to know is what will these new taxes go towards? For example, the property tax – where will that money go? Will it go towards building more social housing? Housing for elderly people, taking in charge ghost housing estates? Or will that money simply go into the black hole of the Exchequer to bail out greedy bankers?

I have no problem paying income tax because I know at least part of that money goes towards our social services – schools, hosptials, maternity payments, social welfare payments, old age pension. So I know my money is helping my country and my fellow countrymen and if I need it, I can avail of those social services myself.

But these taxes? Not so much. I don’t see any benefit for the ordinary man or woman. This money will simply disappear.

Would I risk jail and not pay it? I don’t know. I feel utterly helpless and I feel like we’re al just going to have to pay. I feel backed into a corner.

I’d love to know where they think I’ll get the money to pay these charges. I gave up my TV last year as I couldn’t afford/justify the cost of the TV license. So where will I get the money to pay this household charge that’s going to replace the TV license?

Why should I even pay it, seeing as I don’t watch or benefit from RTE at all?

Give me back my stamp duty and I will gladly pay the tax on my home otherwise its jail for me and I will take my 3 kids with me as my husband,who is lucky enough to still have a job,needs to keep working to pay the mortgage.So bring it on lads.I have past the point of caring

s

Simple fact is we, like many, will really struggle to pay them. After numerous levies and tax hikes and increasing petrol prices we just about have enough after bills to buy food.

the water in my area has gone from spring water to local government supply which is high in calcium, aka damaging my boiler, kettle, washing machine, will the government pay to repair these in relation to poor water standards, I have rain water storage for watering veg and garden, I will have no problem paying when I have s meter till then I will object. the other two taxes similar boat, involved with tidy towns, help keep our village clean tidy, plant trees etc so I’m doing my bit for local properties why tax me. I do watch telly much prefer to read hardcopy or online so why tax me for a telly. I try to live the green lifestyle but also try to get value for money will I be forced to waste water and demand that local government now cut the grass and pick up litter in common areas as I must now work longer hours to pay for these extra taxes. It’s getting harder and harder to live a balanced life with all this going on. some days I feel like saying sod it all show me where my portion of the taxes go. I can’t see the big picture anymore.

There is no valid reason to take this money from those that have earned it. Robbery is robbery, however it is dressed up to look like something else. I already paid property tax – stamp ‘duty’ – when I bought my house, I do not watch television and have my own water supply. I do, however, expect demands to pay for all three. ‘No contract’ comes to mind…..

Some money need to be raised that will go towards Council funding as they have been starved by Central Government for years but I know that if i am paying for water then i want water of top quality and that has been treated for hardness as the water where i live is a disgrace with kettles, washing machines being destroyed fairly rapidly. If we are going to pay then we are customers and expect a certain level of service not the standard Government attitude of ” you’ll take what you get and pay like a fool”

Has anyone got a list of emails of all td’s serving past and present I would love to forward this onto them and read their comments the journal.ie does a great job of informing those that want to stay informed and are civil minded to discuss it in an open forum, we may not have the political power to make changes but we are part of the population that can see where change is needed.

Are they also going to charge us for the burst pipes that will result of the pipes to the meters being above the ground and not buried under it! Don’t think they have thought this through at all.

This is absolutely ridiculous! PRSI, PAYE and the Universal social charge has us all crippled. So, the government decides to roll out another 2 taxes: water charges and a household charge to put us into our graves. The government is punishing the young people of the country who had nothing whatsoever to do with the billions and billions of loans that were happily lent by the country’s banks so I fail to see how we should have to be hit with additional taxes. What about the good honest people who worked hard all their lives and paid tax, now being hit with all these charges as they retire. My plans to buy a house are now out the window because of this: I can barely save money with the current charges never mind coming up with monthly mortgage repayments. The introduction of any more charges is sure to seal my destiny… staying with my parents for the rest of my life and succumb to a horrible country or escape via emigration!! The government needs to think carefully about their plans: As it stands, our country has sporadic charges with blurred channels. Where is our road tax money going? Where is the second property tax going? Where will the household charge be going? Will the water charge relate solely to the water? We stand in shame to the way England is ruled and I wish to God that we had been spared from Irish rule because it feels like we will be returning to Penal times in the not so distant future. It will cost us a lot of money in order to be proud to be Irish!!

It’s time for civil disobedience. The country as a whole has to refuse these taxes. iF the tax was being ploughed back into the country, fair enough, but we all know that’s not the case.

I don’t agree with these extra charges at all. I feel as a country we need to stand up and say NO MORE. We just can’t take it. I’m sick of the well off being spoiled by our government. I mean in all reality what do these people do for the country? Sweet F A as far as I can see. People who are unfortunate enough to be trying to scrape by on Social Welfare spend their money in the country. They get paid on a Thursday and by Sat the whole amount has been put back into the economy. Well thats how it is in my house anyway. With fuel allowance stopped and my eldest son leaving college I’m down €57 per week. But I’m still buying coal to warm my children at night. I’m living on €247 per week to keep me and my 3 children. No other benefits apart from the childrens allowance. Which I lost for my eldest son in January too. I feel despair. I can’t afford these charges. And I don’t disagree with the well off in society paying the same as me. Its just not fair. I challenge any Minister with 3 children to live as I do. I borrowed €3000 from my parents to put myself through night school to try to get back to work. What prospects do I have? I’ve worked all my life till my 2nd child. What reward am I receiving for all that tax i’ve already paid? At my stage in life I should be relatively ok. But I’m really struggling through no fault of my own. This mess is someone elses fault and its about time they took a portion of the blame..

* I meant to say I don’t AGREE with the well off in society paying the same as me.. Sorry :)

Why don’t we just face up to it and default on this loan instead of taxing everybody into the ground.

I know I won’t be able to pay all these taxes with my take home pay along with a lot more people in this country we soon will have to ask for F.I.S. or go to st. Vincent de Paul for help

Introducing a flat water charge is nuts as it will only increase water usage, the only logical and fair approach is to install meters with a free allowance proportional to household size, and charge for usage after allowance is used up

Every expert has said we are going to default, yet Enda came out earlier this week saying quite clearly we are not going to default. I wondered at his optimism. I wondered why he was so confidently stating this. And now I know why. We are not going to default because the government are going to rob every single person in the state and make them pay….Im so angry and I dont know what to do with this anger. Should i quit my job rather than pay off a debt I don’t owe? I do know that little old me and my woes will not make a difference to the government. But if there was a forum….somewhere for ordinary people to contact each other and maybe demand to be heard.
My wages are already down so much to pay off this debt.
And now they are introducing more taxes.
I think we should have a referendum on this.

I have no more money to give. Peoples incomes should be taken into account when dishing out new taxes!!!

you can’t tax your way out of a recession. There has to be a better way. How about all the big shots in RTE and every professional in the country capping their pay at 100K for 5 years and the surplus to help the poor, sick and dispossessed ??? 100k is still a lot of money and NOBODY is worth any more than that.

so what do you suggest fellow pussy?

They should just copy the system they use for toilet paper.. If you want more, you pay more.

Hey, if we pay a water tax, do we get a rebate when the local council has to issue boil notices, or compensation if the water has parasites that make us sick?

Or do we then have to pay more money out in health insurance premium hikes and possibly some new tax on keeping new unlicenced pets in our intestines?

firstly water is a neccessity of life and should be free,i pay for sky tv so why do i need a liecence?and i am in a co owned house with the council and find it hard to make ends meet as it is,will they help towards payment if i do pay that is

Unless it’s fair and equitable by peoples means, then I will opt for jail…

Just one question for all irish people, Wheres your spine gone ? Spent 8 hundred years fightin the english for our country and now Brussels owns it, thanks to our bankers and politicians.the french would have the country closed down by now , the irish just moan to joe duffy etc. Its time to fight for it again and theres plenty of legitimate targets this time every corrupt politician and banker in this country should be hung for treason.

My questions are simple, what is the current government doing to claw back some of the billions from the people who caused this mess?????? What steps are they taking to bring those cowboys to justice and to answer to the people who are now paying a hefty price for their selfish and self gratifying decisions??? How can the new government (that is showing no signs of being any better than those who have gone before them by the way) keep taking from those who cannot already afford to pay? What Will it Take for the people of Ireland to stand up and say “NO!” ??? How can a government penalise their own people with heavy duties and taxes whilst giving millions to Third World Countries??? Why are we cutting our noses off to spite our faces to keep face as a caring and giving nation?? It just doesn’t make sense, then again, nothing that is happening in Ireland is making sense these days! Roll on the Irish jokes, who else would be so stupid as to try to raise millions from those already on the breadline to give to corrupt and dictating despots??? TIME TO SAY NO! AND MEAN IT!

I’ll pay the household tax on the basis that they reimburse the €17k they took off me in stamp duty!!!!

Time to leave the country for sure. My household cannot take anymore hits !!

The Programme for Government!!!
What a lot of crap, it’s a programme to fleece the people who voted them in (not me) and they know that they have 5 years of big wages and then pensions, and what the heck, these charges will not effect them.
The five point turn around is in full flow, but oh! I forgot, it was the last crowd’s fault, and they did’nt know, yet they saw the book’s BEFORE the election.
Suffer little children.

I’ll pay for water in my home as soon as they clean it up enough to make it safe to drink. I have to use rain water to water house plants as tap water kills them!

Now I will have to pay for a TV that I don’t have, as well as children in school/college/university that I don’t have, water well its down to the river again, all the good that clean water did, for hygiene and health will now revert as we all use rain water, river water or none at all. Back to disease, dirt and those that have and those that don’t. I have paid for my water for over 10 years as the Council could not provide it the Water Scheme has too, so I will pay them and again to the government, paying twice for the same water !

List of TD’s emails, freely availabel on the government web site or just ask for it, takes about 10 days for it to come back. Remember they don’t actually read them, they pay someone to do that.

Let me state that ideally I have no objection to water rates and property taxes if implemented with a reformed Public services and local authority reform. But nothing has been done to reform our services, just cutbacks. If you bought a sliced pan for €1 usually, then all of a sudden it cost €3 and had half the amount of bread, would you buy it?

I will not pay a cent towards a property tax and water charges. Not while the money collected is routed to the exchequer and not the local authority. I frequently experience water shut off’s and low water pressure. I’m expected to pay for that when the money does not even go to the support of that infrastructure? I have no more money to give the state. I’m all for paying a fair share, but there is no value for money in these charges. It’s just more taxes upon more taxes. Meanwhile our national debt mounts. http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

This is becoming a joke, how are people who are already sitting on the edge of the abyss expected to pay these additional charges. A flat rate on water is crazy as every household is different, if its a flat rate I will make a point to wash my car, water the garden and have both the dish washer and washing machine going all at the same time. Might have a bath after that too.
As far as the property tax did we not already pay a tax( Stamp Duty) on our homes already?
This country is a disgrace and we are no better for sitting back without a physical response.

This shows that the Fine Gael / Labour government are no better than the last Fianna Fail/ Green government. In many ways they are worse. Flat rate taxes are regressive and they hurt the lower paid more than the higher paid in terms of % of earnings. This is regressive and a full frontal attack on the weak in society. Why should people who barely boil a pot of water pay the same as someone who runs a hot tub? Why should people living in a two bedroom house pay as much as someone living in a mansion? Once again this proves that this government like the last would rather have us all living on the streets than damage their reputation in Europe. I challenge all the Dáil TD’s to live in social housing and on social welfare rates for a month and see if they can survive! What would be their opinion of social welfare rates and the minimum wage rate be then. Why do they insist on strangling the lower paid workers while the rich get off and the people who brought the economy to its knees get away free? Why do politicians think they deserve such high payments for little in return? It’s time for TD’s to deliver savings and efficiencies!

Since when do we have a shortage of rain in Ireland?? And how can someone who has paid 5500 euro to sink a well in the countryside be expected to pay as much as somebody say on the public water system? I will go to jail before i pay such a tax and its time everyone of us as a people stood up for ourselves.They cant jail the whole lot of us. These b******s are scraping the bottom of the barrell right now after squandering everything we worked to achieve in this country. People are lying in corridors in our hospitals, ordinary people trying to care for sick family members at home are having their payments slashed, we are still taking in so called “Refugees” housing them sending them to school, giving them medical and social welfare, Im not racist in any way but when are we going to start looking after our own people first and forget about all this PC bullshit? There are too many spoofers here bleeding our country dry and this is our Governments fault as they tolerate it. We cant afford it anymore !! And why arent our newly elected Government going after the people (politicians and bankers alike) who caused this mess and jailing them for economic treason? Because FG/Labour are the same as FF they all pushed for a Yes vote in Lisbon which gave power to our European overlords who are now calling the shots. This new coalition will not bring about any change in this country they will only further add to our misery by implenting “European” taxation apoun us. Taxation which is a consequence of us bailing out the “European Banks and Bondholders” invested in Irish Banks. If we want change in this country it starts at the grass roots. Lightning strikes, civil disobedience whatever it takes the system needs to be brought to its knees we the Citizens are already on our knees paying for the greed of others.

Bankers

Bankers, I said bankers
Yes I’m sure you heard me right.
I didn’t say that other word
I think you thought I might.

And what good can I say of these
The Bankers on my mind
Yes the Bankers made a mess of things
But Bankers wont be fined.

Are Bankers all above the law?
Or can they put things right?
Are Bankers just the dead wood
In a system that’s a fright.

If I were to rob a Bank
I’m sure I’d go to jail,
The Bankers did the inside job
The Bankers didn’t fail.

They escape all prosecution
And their pensions they have stashed
The Bankers live in luxury
While the rest of us need cash.

I want to go to work each day
But now I’m on the dole
The Bankers yes they saw to this
The Bankers played their role.

Bankers bloody Bankers
Nah! I really am just fine.
If I said the word ye thought I said
You’d all choke on your wine

If I say much more my word count
Could fill so many tankers
But I think you’ve got my message now
They’re all a shower of ……………………………………Wankers.

© Seamus Kirwan. January1st 2010.

Where’s it all gonna end lads and lassies? Things have to be paid for but change needs to come from the top down rather than the bottom up. Another thing, next time you see any charity collecting on the street, before you start feeling sorry for the cause, ask yourself the question, How much is the CEO of this charity getting paid each year and can it be justified along with his/her expenses? This is another area where change is needed from the top down so there can be more money to spend on coal face needs.

Let’s abolish FAS also because they are interviewing so many people each week and they have no courses to send them on to upskill so really they are not serving any purpose. How many millions would that save? Serious change is needed across the board, instead of talking about tough decisions having to be made, let’s see these tough decisions being made but from the top down rather than whats happening at the minute.

Cut all politiical pensions and payouts down to state pension level, and why should anyone get sevrance pay because they are failed politicians. Go back to your day job or sign on the dole like the rest of us.

I better stop now before I have a heart attack and take up a non existant bed in the hospital. But I suppose I should be greatful if they find a trolly for me or an arm chair. Again coalface staff are starved of funds here also while the fat cats and overpaid mismanagers at the top cream off millions for their self satisfying existance. Lets see change from the top down here also. Though I won’t be holding my breath.

I don’t disagree, but given that a previous contributor suggested this sort of forum to inform our government on public opinion, it serves nobody to put it as you do. I’m not a prude, but this sort of terminology demeans the forum and thejournal.ie equally.

We need a Eurosceptic political party

how dso these people in government think we are going to pay water charges and the housing charge and whatever the third one is i am so nnoyed i cant even think. We need to start something to stop them i will be a prt of any group that will try to get them to see sense. People on the bread line and below are screwed for sure,,i live alone why should i pay same charge as a family of 4. NO WAY HOSÉ I WILL BE LOCKED UP B4 THAT HAPPENS

Lock me up now, see how much I contribute then!!

I considered not paying tax to the government. Leaving my current post and being rehired as a self employed contractor thus controlling my tax contributions.
My idea was to calculate my annual tax and direct the funds to NGOs (ispcc, jack and jill etc) was legally advised against but thought it a powerfully method of civil disobedience.

Any thoughts?

Hi folks,
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Blood out of a stone?

I paid a property tax, stamp duty, when I bought my house. I assume I will be refunded this before I am expected to pay a new property tax. As for water, will our servants, the government, try to extort tax from those of us that have our own, independent water supply, I wonder? And a challenge in court to any tax for television on those who do not receive broadcasts would, I expect stand up.
It’s such a shame that Irish people just do as they are told. I dream that one day they will discover civil disobedience.

The argument for introducing the water tax is that every other country in Europe pays it. Fair enough. But, do they also pay a Universal Social charge and pension levy and income levy on top of their income taxes?
I already pay a fee to a managment company for water so I’m not sure if that means I will have to pay again or what?

We must realise that we all pay ourselves too much dont pay enough tax and have been living in a cloud for the past ten years, we must cop on, opay our way and not expect the rest of the world to continue to bail us out, Just reality,

I have no problem at all with the principle of water charges based on usage and ability to pay, property tax based on fair valuation of owned property and some sort of public broadcasting charge in place of the current obsolete TV licence fee.

I think this is a step in the right direction — we need to understand that water is not free and we need to pay for it. Studies show that people conserve more water when it’s charged for and this will be ok until the meters have been installed.

As for the property charge… I dunno, seems a bit pointless.