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Dublin: 10 °C Tuesday 21 May, 2013

Pope says marriage is only place ‘worthy’ of conception

Pope Benedict also said that infertile couples should shun artificial procreation.

The Pope greets a private audience at the Vatican on Saturday.
The Pope greets a private audience at the Vatican on Saturday.
Image: AP Photo/Osservatore Romano

POPE BENEDICT XVI called on infertile couples to shun artificial procreation, saying such methods are a form of arrogance during a Vatican conference last weekend.

Benedict spoke on Saturday at the end of a three-day Vatican conference on diagnosing and treating infertility. He reiterated Vatican teaching in saying that marriage was the only permissible place to conceive children.

Benedict also reportedly pressed a church ban against artificial procreation. He said infertile couples should resist resorting to any method to try to conceive other than sex between husband and wife.

“Indeed, the union of a man and a woman, in that community of love and life which is marriage, represents the only worthy ‘place’ for a new human being to be called into existence,” the Vatican Information Service quotes him as saying.

He said that in the case of infertile couples that while the church is “attentive to the suffering of infertile couples”  there was a drive for profit as well as an “arrogance” that seemed to dominate the field of infertility.

He warned against what he called the “fascination of artificial procreation technology.”

“Science, nonetheless, is not always capable of responding to the needs of many couples, and so I would like to remind those who are experiencing infertility that their matrimonial vocation is not thereby frustrated,” the Holy Father said.

- additional reporting from AP

The Pope is getting his own Twitter account

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Comments (188 Comments)

  • Almost every single child conceived by IVF is conceived in love. You can’t say that about sex.

    Reply
  • I am the Father of an 11 year old son born by IVF, he was conceived within a loving marriage and is growing up to learn the values of tolerance and respect for others. This Pope is an Ass and will hopfully speed up the demise of an outdated autocratic power hungry organisation that has done nothing but spread hatred in modern times.

    Reply
  • As an atheist I love the pope. He argues the case against religion better than I ever could.

    Reply
  • Arrogance?

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    • Like him or not-he has a good point. IVF is a desperate thing and you’re better off just forgetting about it if you can’t reproduce naturally.

      As for all the negative comments about the pope, I doubt these will bother him. Afterall, the same people making the comments on this site were also the same people who were convinced David Norris would be president and how proud he would do us. I guess reality kicked in with that one!

      It’s time to realise the catholic church is bigger than all of the naysayers and will be around long after you are gone.

      Reply
    • What a surprise.

      Pro Catholic Church troll drivil from someone who’s face is probably not their own on a suspiciously new looking Twitter account with zero followers. Liz – I’m talking to you in case you haven’t gotten the hint yet.

      The Pope can go and take a jump off the top of St. Peter’s Basilica for all I care. Stop spreading hate. Mind your own business.

      Oh and FYI Pope Bendydick, the most unnatural thing in the world as far as I am concerned is celebacy. Also, how about you go and sell the wealth of the Vatican to help feed the 3rd World. There’s a good chap.

      Hypocritical shower of a-holes.

      Reply
    • Oh tough man, calls the pope a nazi… but immediately loses argument with display of his own ignorance

      The pope’s teaching on IVF is entirely compatibly with traditional Christian views of sexuality and procreation. Indeed, our former President Mary McAleese has expressed similar views. Objections to IVF on the basis that it was people ‘playing God’ were widespread throughout society when the technology first emerged, and not from a purely theological viewpoint either.

      These are his views but like everything else we have people trying to exploit it in the name of all those he has ‘hurt’.

      Reply
    • He announced very quietly a few years ago “that alien life would not conflict with God”, but artificial insemination does and so do condoms. I guess he’s playing it safe, lol.. just in case the second little hippy guy come back in a ship.

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    • Liz, chemotherapy is hard going as well, should we all just not bother to treat cancer either? Infertility is a medical problem that can be treated. Nothing mystical about a blocked fallopian tube, get it unblocked and off you go, instead of praying for yourself to be magically healed. This pope is a bit of a dope. The last pope tried to demystify the church and include the people with vatican 2, and was loved for it.

      This pope is trying to alienate everyone he can for some reason. I’d guess he doesn’t refuse treatment for anything to do with his own health, probably on heart meds and god knows what else at his age. Utter Hypocrasy.

      Reply
    • AlMar 27/02/12 #

      @P Wurple: Seriously, what are you talking about? Unblocking fallopian tubes? Chemotherapy? None of this has anything to do with what this story is about.

      And for the record, the same people who criticise Benedict also criticised Pope John Paul. It’s the same teaching and it doesn’t change from pope to pope.

      Reply
    • Yes, arrogance! To think that you have power to manipulate life beyond that which God intended is ARROGANCE! I LOVE our pope! He has the courage to take on legions of sinners effortlessly. All you naysayers have let in the spirit of Christ and it is only a matte of time before you come back to the fold. Yes!

      Reply
    • SeanS 27/02/12 #

      “To think that you have power to manipulate life beyond that which God intended is ARROGANCE!”

      What’s to say God didn’t give us the ability to to create these tools for a higher purpose? Why is your interpretation of what is and isn’t the will of God the right interpretation? What about penicillin, vaccines, flight, cars, surgery etc., aren’t these manipulations of natural order? Maybe you’d be happier if we were still in caves drawing pictures and flinging our faeces about. Let us know how it goes.

      Reply
    • I also have a funny feeling that is not really Aoife in that picture…..

      You also have so many followers on your “not so suspiciously just set up Twitter account”!

      Oddball Pro Catholic Church troll……

      Reply
    • Poppy 27/02/12 #

      Liz – you haven’t a clue. I hope you never experience infertility & the absolute devastation & heartbreak that goes with it. Why should we not use the medical knowledge we have to help couples achieve their dream of having a family. Your an obvious troll – what surprises me is the number of thumbs up you’ve got ??

      Reply
    • Youth defence i think…

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    • SeanS 27/02/12 #

      And aren’t you at least as guilty of the same arrogance when you assume your interpretation of what is or isn’t Gods will is the right interpretation?

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    • infertility is a treatable medical condition, to say one should not get treatment is reminiscent of the dark ages, when people believed afflictions were sent by god to punish wrong doers, or even like christian science, where they wont take any medical treatment for anything as they believe their ailments are what god intends, its backwards the church is going

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    • Liz the reason David Norris isn’t president is that liberals do something very peculiar to conservatives we reformulate our opinions as new evidence comes to our disposal. This maybe a strange and fearful concept to someone who believes a celibate 84 year old virgin is an authority on sexual matters based on his perceived ability to telepathically communicate with a cosmic super daddy. I would like to think that you are wrong that the Catholic Church wont live on indefinitely as several of its predecessors of religious myth have died and withered away. But if you are right and the Church of Batshit lives for another few centuries well that’s not something we should be proud of.

      Reply
    • Arrogance indeed

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    • It is most obvious that the Journal makes available only articles which don’t cause them any controversy with the result that —YOU— the readers are not unreservedly informed.
      This in my opinion is not an autonomous manner of reporting.
      I have noted on many occasions that abruptly topics and comments disappear from the Journal’s website without due explanation.
      It just confirms my point…the freedom of the press does not exist.

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    • I have to disagree Liz.

      The catholic church as an institution is completely out of touch and given some more time it won’t be bigger than the naysayers in countries like Ireland.

      I wouldn’t call IVF a desperate thing and any child born that way should be warmly welcomed into the Christian family like any other child.

      Reply
    • @ Aoife,I love your comments…yourself and the Pope should go down as the greatest trolls of all time! ;)

      Reply
    • Stop spreading the hate yourself Brendan Liam Walsh: cf the last line of your post.

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    • P Wurpel & Almar
      ”Blocked Fallopian Tubes”!!!!
      Just had a look at the elderly males giving the pope an big hearty clap for his announcement. I doubt very much if the issue of blocked tubes will have any bearing upon the ability of those so appreciative of the popes remarks to ‘conceive’ or otherwise.

      Reply
    • @Liz & @Aoife; you’re both idiots & your naivety & stupidity actually concerns me for the future of society.

      First of all, the catholic church is most definitely on it’s way out. Mass attendance is down, peoples belief in organised religion is fast shifting to more agnostic & spiritual places & the regulations within which we were controlled & dictated to by the church are no longer being remotely entertained. My nanny is 86 & I swear to God she’s more liberal than the pair of you!

      I want children. I’m not in a place in my life to have them right now but when the time comes I hope everything is as it should. If it were not however, I can say categorically I would be devastated & I would not stop at anything to have my baby including IVF if it were necessary. The childless, unmarried, sexless pope’s opinions don’t count in this instance.

      The pope has no real place in our lives anymore. Jesus there’s talk of a visit next year & all I’m thinking of is the nightmare it will be for traffic! While your opinions are your own & you are totally entitled to them, I’m relieved to say you’re in the minority on this one & will be for quite some time.

      As a ps, I’m an epileptic & way back in the day we used to be shipped off because they thought there was something wrong with us. Luckily since then neurology has happened & I live a perfectly healthy normal life with the aid of my meds- I found prayers not to have quite so strong an effect on controlling confused neurological messages in the brain.

      Reply
    • Our caring and compassionate pope….

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    • liz you look young if you only knew what people went through ,i hope you dont ever have to find out that pain.thats all i could say to you.

      Reply
  • Mr G 27/02/12 #

    My self and my wife had ivf and have a beautiful girl as a result this so called man of god has not got a clue. My baby girl is an angel !

    Reply
  • He should really check his Bible- Mary and Joseph were not wed when she conceived- good enough for JC but not Pope Benedict? As for shunning artificial fertility technology? Doesn’t he realise every sperm is sacred? Every sperm is great! When a sperm is wasted God gets quite irate! Seriously, most of what the Vatican comes out with could have been written by the Monty Python crew! Roll on the anti-church bashing bashers ;0)

    Reply
  • For such a pro life organisation theyre very picky of what type of child the consider acceptable

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  • Taking the popes advice on marriage is like taking sex advice from 4chan

    Reply
  • This guy really should start keeping his opinions to himself.

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  • Well thats just the nail in the coffin for the Catholic Church now.
    How can a man who is not married and does’nt have any children ( that we know of ) give advice like this to couples who are so desperate to have kids.
    Dispicable

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    • Oh I bet he has kids alright. There just hidden away…….secretly.

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    • well diarmuid .im in the process of ivf athe moment .ive being a bold girl ihad sex before marriage .i was in 2 minds about baptiseing t another child if this works .well after that f,,ck it !im not.iwas told when iwas getting married that iwas laughing into the face of god by bringing my child to the wedding ceremony !this is in 97 !well hes made mychoice much easier.what next wil they not babtise childre conceived artififcialy???evil evil no love in that vatican no compassion its dead to me now.

      Reply
  • What would that fool know about procreating.

    Reply
  • Pronouncements from bachelors about marriage and children should be taken with a sack of salt.

    Reply
  • The Pope is definitely a fan of trollin’. This kind of drivel is unbelievable.

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  • “Fascists dress in black and go around telling people what to do. Whereas priests…” Father Ted.

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  • Mr G 27/02/12 #

    I have a beautiful girl from ivf she is an angel this so called man of god is an idiot

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  • Has he any idea the kind of hurt he can cause to people who are already in a very painful situation??

    Stupid question I suppose.

    The last thing that couples who are facing these difficult choices need is to be stigmatised by the church!

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  • Even if there hadn’t been so much sex related scandal within the Catholic Church and he came out with ridiculous statements like that, i’d tell him to go f*ck himself! Where does he get off telling couples to shun the opportunity to have kids?

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  • Forget the issue of whether there’s even a god or not – the Catholic Church is still incredibly out of touch with reality.

    Reply
  • Arguing with a Christian is like playing chess with a pigeon.You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, shit on the board and strut around triumphantly.

    Reply
  • if you don’t play the game don’t make the rules.

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  • Ireland’s having a hard time going through the death throes of Catholicism. The pronouncements of this old man should have no more significance in the context of general news than the ranting and raving of some old hermit living on insects in a desert cave.

    Reply
  • Maybe he should give sex a try? Might soften his hard-on for strict rules.

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  • I have two sisters which in their own way, has struggled HARD for years to have children.
    Both used medical help to to achieve this.
    The pope in his outdated backwardness would deny them this?

    The pope and the Church of Rome once again shows itself as the outdated organisation it much is!
    The pope himself is an idiot!

    Reply
  • ok moderated yet again….3rd try

    The real problem with messages from this “Papa Romeo India Charlie Kilo” is that they not alone influences ordinary cathaholics but also influence those cathaholics in power such as politicians & judges, senior civil servants etc.

    The rest of us then suffer under the decisions & laws they enact and enforce. Just look how surrogate children are treated in this country for an example of how our laws are out of touch with reality.

    Not only that but it gives credibility to the spineless nutjobs that see fit to post shotgun shells to IVF clinics.

    It is in essence incitement to hatred.

    Reply
    • Now you’ve hit the nail center on. The problem is that this kinda nonsense gets leglislated upon and the laws of the believers become the laws for everyone else to follow. Their state is recognised as sovereign, their beliefs as absolute and their opinions as meaningful.

      Reply
  • The most regrettable aspect to all of this is that catholics do actually listen to his scuttery nonsense. I cannot think of a more prolific distributor of bullshit than him and his cronies. The media have got to stop giving this lad airtime. What he has to say has no relevance for anyone living in the 21st century. Every time he opens his mouth it’s only to change whichever foot is already in it. I think he needs a good kick up the arse.

    Reply
  • so to take his point to conclusion medical or scientific intervention in natural process is unGodly and wrong, but cancer, diabetes, alzheimers etc are natural processes. do we shun treatment for fear of sin. surely religion based on a loving God asks for the ethical use of science for man’s good. the love given by an infertile couple to an ivf child is God at work. the pope has got it very wrong again

    Reply
    • Actually, pharmaceutical drugs are considered witch craft according to the bible..

      The word “pharmakeia” is what was translated as “witch”, it is also the root word for “pharmaceutical” and so it is actually considered witchcraft to administer drugs. Look around online, there are many Christian sites that promote this ideology.

      In that respect he speaks the truth about his belief system.. It’s just that the belief system is fraudulent to start with.. As John Marco Allegro pointed out in the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. (he was the only non catholic affiliated scholar allowed to work on the dead sea scrolls and concluded that the Judeo Christian religion was a hybrid of the ancient Sumerian fertility cult and mushroom worship.. The Pharmacratic Inquisition may be worth a watch if you would like to learn more)

      Reply
  • The pope is a godshite, the Catholic religion is a joke, it’s as bad as any of those mentalist religions on the bible belt in America. How dare he tell people how the should or should not live their lives. The bible is an ancient book written by unverified source with not one fact! People are nuts!

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  • howzat 27/02/12 #

    Never understand why they voted in a very conservative pope when the church is declining
    When your that far out of touch with reality your not going to make much progress
    My wish list
    New pope
    Allow priest to marry
    Come up with new doctrine
    Leave the gold palace and travel around meeting the poor and try and make a change in the world
    Come to USA and Ireland and apologise for the cover up and lack of action on child abuse
    Allow female priests

    Reply
    • That’s because that Polish chap Karol Wojtyla stuffed the cardinal ranks with conservative right wing nut jobs in his time in the role. If you show any sign of liberalism you don’t get anywhere in the Church.
      Joe Ratz is doing the exact same thing.

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  • Its a pity the church dont support people in these situations, instead of alienating them.

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  • He’s going to get some land when he dies and finds out there is no God!

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  • Oh yea Popey Its the IVF patients who are the arrogant ones and not you who believes you can commune with the creator of the universe to instruct mere mortals. You keep saying these things and it makes my job of trying to promote the necessity of reason above medieval superstition all the easier.

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  • Are you encouraging the use of artificial contraception father? “pat mustard”

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  • What in Gods name and I use Gods name deliberately would this crettin know about the frustration of a married couple that cannot have a child he is a Moran no wonder nobody wants to have anything to do with the church anymore

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    • Where did you get the idea that ‘nobody wants to have anything to do with the church’. I was in three different churches in the past few days and there were no seats to be had in two because they were full to capacity. The third was almost completely full also with only a few seats vacant. There is a fairly big increase of (young included) people at Mass every morning for Lent so you are talking rubbish.

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    • The fact that there is a significant minority, still confused, who continue to acquiesce to the morally bankrupt hierarchy of the catholic ” church ” , is no proof that the majority, do not want to have anything to do with this organisation. Their position is clear. Put the reputation of the church before
      the safety and welfare of children. They have made themselves quite clear regarding this issue repeatedly. The fact that you want to align yourself
      to this organisation of pedophiles and their protectors is very telling.

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    • The reason the churches were so packed was because the unemployed are looking for a social outlet and are going to fill up there day and meet people in a communal place that has free access, and so many young because they are the ones hit most by unemployment.

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    • hanly i love the wy you completely bypassed the whole point !i dont know what churches you go to !i 3 in a row???hope nobody belonging to you has to go through infertility

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  • way i reckon it god made people, people made ivf and contraception … therefore it came from god and the popes point is moot ;)

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  • What does it matter to the vatican how/where children are conceived its all fresh meat to them. These vile cretins have been torturing, abusing and raping children for centuries. They need get off their high horses!

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  • How is this a surprise? After all the Catholic Church is against contraception too. I suggest we just ignore this opinion too, after all he IS living in the Dark Ages. (that should be his twitter name…..Living in the Dark Ages)

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  • Thank God he’s on Twitter now so we can all get more regular updates of his outdated rhetoric. Will he take the replies though?

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  • Jesus…after reading some of the comments here, I’m going to try my best to go to hell. I couldn’t bear to share heaven with all the religious loonies continually bumping into me with their blind faith

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  • Now I can see why the Vatican is a pretend country, no one else wants to own his like as part of their population.

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  • What a backward idiot!

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  • I get that people probably needed religion in a world before sense, but still believing in a ‘god’ that has never had even a scrap of existence?? Give up the fairy tales kids, you’re not going to rot in a pit of fire with a man with a pointy tail poking you in the arse with a pitchfork.
    The pope is full of shite, and apparantly isn’t opposed to the spreading of AIDS in African countries.

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  • Hello?……..anybody out there?…. What century am I in?… WTF?

    Reply
  • The man lives in a solid gold castle in his own little country paid for by church goers. He comes out with some great shit every six months tho. Worth every penny.

    Reply
  • Dear Everybody

    The Pope is trying his very best to fit in. He wants us to forget all about those thousands of children worldwide that his corporation threw to the wolves. He wants to be part of our future, not a relic of the past. He wants to share his holy twits with us all. Soon he will have a holy facebook page to which we can give the big holy thumbs up. He wants to share the magic that is Catholicism. He wants you to be like him, rich, powerful and holy. He wants to share his pointy hat, his magic gloves, his apartment in Monaco, his collection of fine wines, and his 100 year old scotch, but wait, theres more….

    Aids, moral corruption, a nice warm and cosy hiding place for paedophiles, the best lawyers money can buy, award winning hypocrisy, magic tricks that even David Copperfield scratches his head about, a compensation fund that never pays out, nice clothes and award winning hats.

    Who could ask for more

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  • There is no god…it’s all science folks…we are here because we happen to be just the right distance from the sun & our planet is just the right temperature to support life & water. Simple as that!! No man in the sky…sorry.

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  • Ahem, Mary’s “Immaculate Conception”, anyone? So Joseph should’ve just kept trying, eh? Maybe the High Prelate might have thought this through a little further before undermining the basic premise of Christianity. I like the thought of an Arrogant Archangel though!

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  • Sex for procreation purposes only……….tell that to all the paedophile priests and leave normal people to live normal lives.

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  • Another fart in the wind from the master of pointy hats and long flowing jewel encrusted gowns. Great photo by the way. I love magic tricks too

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  • My Ma says I was immaculately conceived. I have long flowing hair, a beard and can do magic tricks on demand.

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  • “Down with this sort of thing.”

    I truly feel sorry for the sheep,that have been brainwashed so badly,that they still believe that this sexless freak takes instruction from an invisible cloud god,who used make the odd cameo appearance back in the day,but not so much now.Religion brings out the nutjob in everyone!!!
    .

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  • Christina, I said I would never post a comment on here again but I have to…just to say I agree with each of your posts! Only those who can have children with no treatment or who don’t want children could possibly object to ivf or other means of fertility treatments. So sick of this Church and it’s antiquated views and it’s oppression of women…id rather be a good Christian than a good catholic anyday.

    Reply
  • Hey! A guy that used to be in the Hitler Youth as a teenager can’t be all bad! Give him a break…..

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  • The characteristics of a cult, as opposed to a genuine church, are that a cult will generally engage in secrecy, the sexual abuse of minors, and have an emphasis on financial reward and place their reputation above all else, including the safety and welfare of children. Typically, cults will use every and any means necessary, to avoid any admittance of guilt, but most importantly, to avoid any financial recompense. They will use the fragile personalities of their victims as proof of their unreliability. Their is no low to which they will not stoop. Thank god the catholic church don’t display any of these cult like characteristics. Oh, wait!!!.

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  • Why does the church never ever seek to love and embrace? It has no idea about life. No concept of life as it is. No capability to meet the person as they are. A family looking to have a child and through the wonders of science it is possible and one human gets to tell them it is wrong They deny what is pouring through the senses. The church utterly Denys freedom and the church utterly denies the mystery of life. It reduces the beauty and mystery of every waking moment to a doctrine. People must love slavery really. And all the sheep just love being sheep. Because to not be a sheep would mean looking outside of inherited thinking. It would mean looking within. the pope would be first in line to crucify Jesus. No doubt! These articles drive me nuts

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  • How would he know

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  • PJ: The church is also opposed to contraception and the use of condoms – hence regardless of the aid it provides to those with HIV it is also directly causing incidence and spread of HIV and Aids particularly in Africa. I’m sure those with Aids and HIV would have preferred never have it rather than recieve ‘care’ from the church once they do…. Additionally the wealth held by the church could go a long way towards eradicating world poverty yet they restrain themselves to holding onto their wealth and making flimsy donation and charitable workings. Finally your comment on people not wanting to be reminded that they are out of sync with the church makes no sense to me… as above in the comments, people who had children via IVF are very happy to be out of sync with what the church teaches (at least regarding this latest nonsense they are spouting) as otherwise they would have remained childless. So it would seem that they are having ‘go at the pope’ purely because they believe his views to be greatly flawed, as do I. Thankfully in society these days people can live their lives according to what makes them happy and with zero regard for the views of the pope on what they do.

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    • Christina all I say is that listing out all of the perceived misdeeds of the church, or individuals in the church, does not make a clear point. I was addressing just one issue here. If you want me to give you my opinion on one other ok, but which one? And when I reply to that don’t be like a child and say, yes but what about ….

      Reply
  • Ha, Pope BendyDick…..

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  • Nothing like a bit of Religion to get the comments flowing, have rarely seen so many comments on one story (or so many trolls jumping on the bandwagon). Just ignore the very obvious cries for attention and eventually they will go away ( that’s both the trolls and the narrow minded people from the Catholic Church!!)

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  • B7584 27/02/12 #

    Shut it Ratzinger you senile old fool.
    Who gives a F**K what the muppet says anymore? Hes like a holy Eamonn Dunphy! :D

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  • I love this Pope, with thoughts like this he will free more and more Irish famlies and communitiies from religion.
    All Church’s today find it hard to find topics they can advise us on, but they are still three popular subjects they wish to comment on:
    1) Remind us to pray
    2) Views on Sex
    3) Obey god

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  • Erica 28/02/12 #

    What a deluded man…

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  • Is it any wonder people are turning away from the church.
    I for one am a practicing Catholic having returned to the church after several years absent. I too am also part of the many couples out there trying to conceive naturally but to no avail and have used IVF. Thankfully though I’m in a minority in that I know the Pope is a tool and the Church is deluded. I attend mass for the social element, a way to catch up with people as well as connection with God.
    When people ask I say I go to mass because I believe in God not the church- not sure if that makes me a hypocrite but it makes me happy and at the end of the day I’m pretty sure God would prefer that.
    The catholic church needs to stop thinking of itself and put the well being of it parishioners be them single/ married straight or gay first…
    I believe we are all the same in Gods eyes and loved just as much by him regardless.

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  • STFU you Nazi freak!!!!

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  • I believe it is God who produces miracles of birth and all the tools to help people conceive. If I am wrong and its someone else’s form of the man above, I don’t mind and will thank them also. But the Pope is becoming nothing more than a wayward messenger who is isolating himself by lack of experience in what he is preaching. Practice makes perfect. I also believe there are not many Atheists on death row.

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  • Popes comments “worthy” of Inception…that fella is living in a dream inside a dream inside a dream.

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  • If in any doubt of the stupidity of religion,just You Tube “George Carlin – Religion is bullshit” He sums it up better than anyone ever could ;-)

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  • Like it or not it is the teaching of the Catholic church and he is only doing his duty as the leader of the church
    Coincidentally In Islam, Buddhism and other Christian Churches have the same teaching

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  • So what does that last paragraph mean? – that an infertile couple’s “matrimonial vocation is not thereby frustrated”? Is this the pope giving infertile couples permission to have sex even though they know it will not result in children?

    Is this the same man who mentioned ARROGANCE??

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  • Hail Satan!

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    • @shit you not,,
      Now your talking, and what if this is true.. This must be the Hell on Earth that people fail to recognize then.
      Let all the non-belivers bring about the Heaven on Earth for they thrusted their instincts.
      If it looks like sh#t, Smells like sh#t , Feels like sh#t , its usually shit.. lol

      Reply
  • Why do people still get in a fluster when the pope says something that the pope is meant to say? He’s a catholic, he says things that adhere to Catholicism, get over it.

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    • News of what the pope has to say should have no place in the general news media. It should be published in religious media for the instruction of religious followers. Then no one gets in a fluster.

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    • @John – I would agree but only if atheists have the same restrictions, communists only speak to members of the communist party, capitalists only to capitalist supporters and so on – what is really frightening about the debate on here is the amount of people who want to restrict free speech – free speech is not about hearing just what you want to hear or would like to hear all the time but hearing all points of view and making an opinion based of that

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    • Fair enough Jason.
      I have come to articles on religious matters on this site and I have read complaints from people about the level of abuse being levelled at those who believe and want to (rightly in my opinion) defend what they believe in.
      While I have strong objections towards the Roman Church I do think it’s wrong to attack and disrespect people like this.
      I feel that the Roman Church is not now the centre of peoples lives like it used to be and the extent of reporting of these kind of views by the pope is disproportionate to the amount of people who feel they should live by his directions. This in my opinion exposes believers to outrageous attacks in some cases, and a quick glance back up the page proves my point.
      It is my opinion that there is an adjustment to be made in the media regarding the balance of the perceived importance of this mans words with the actual audience for his statements, otherwise it could be deemed to be inciting intolerance.

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  • The way I see it – the Pope is the representative of the Catholic Church and whether modern society likes it or not the bible does state that Marriage and therefore the family is the best place to conceive children. Given that, I think it would be monumentally stupid of the main representative of that religion to then go against the teachings on which that faith is based.

    In saying that everyone has the right to listen or to reject his opinions on the matter but to call the man stupid or out of touch for representing his faith and what that faith represents is a bit silly in of itself in my opinion.

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    • Jason if the monster raving loony party acted as they do out of a genuine belief in their ideology yes I would question the sanity of its leader for towing the party line.

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    • Ah but Cyril – I’m sure you would never remove their right to say it!

      Secondly, you don’t have to join the monster raving looney party if you don’t want too – and as I said previously if you’re not a member then don’t listen but if you are then the leader has the right to speak to his members.

      My point on this matter is not about the rights and wrongs of what he said, but he has the right to say it and his faith does state that in their main manifesto in the bible so personally I think he has done nothing wrong in representing that faith

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    • Yes indeed the pope may be head of the Catholic Church, an organization, lets not forget, whose numbers are shrinking with every abuse scandal and subsequent cover up, yet he still thinks he can dictate how people live their lives, and seek to influence the policies of nation states, in 2012 – to me that is arrogance beyond belief.

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    • You assumed correctly Jason. I will protect the liberty of those who wish to preach of the coming of the alien glucons from the planet posherna on O’Connell street if they so wish. I will only become vocal when they enter politics, demand communication channels be opened up to these aliens before dail proceedings or they take over the school system.

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    • Religion has nothing to do with Faith it is just a belief.
      In the word faith anything is possible, when in the religion not all things are possible.
      It is in the belief that makes religion so impossible for other not included in believing.
      Within the word believe is BE_LIE.

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    • Where can I join this monster raving loony party?

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    • Yes but the Bible is at least 1800 years old, they did not have IVF back then. A childless couple would have had to suffer the woman being called “barren”. why shouldn’t a childless couple have a chance to have a family after all? The Pope has once again proved just HOW far removed from reality he is.

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    • @ Jason Finnerty
      The whole faith is based on artificial insemination! A fairy tale!!

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    • While the Bible implies that family is good for children, I challenge you to point out where any of its authors state the Pope’s views. I think you’ll struggle to find even any weak examples.

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  • As much as I’m no cheerleader for the Pope, it is true to say he is just the messenger.. It’s the message that’s at fault.

    If we look here:
    http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G5331
    Pharmakeia is the word that was directly translated as “witchcraft”. As in, Exodus 22.16 “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”.
    Due to the way language works it is easy to see the relationship between pharmakeia and pharmaceutical, because they are from the same root, pharma = drug. 

    Therefore, it is not just IVF that Christianity opposes. It is medicine, pharmaceutical and natural. Doctors and healthcare workers who use any type of medicine whatsoever are witches. As they administer drugs. 
    I guess we should be thankful he’s not calling for the burning down of hospitals and murder of doctors and nurses.. 

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  • Let’s not blame the pope, he is only speaking on behalf of the organization he was elected to run. Let’s not blame that organization either, they keep showing the world their true face and PEOPLE still bend the knee!

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  • He is the best thing that ever happened to secularism. Just waiting for him to roll back on the church’s acknowledgment of Copernicus and Benedict will be theologically in the place he wants to be.
    What’s even stranger is the fact that Catholicism is one of the fastest growing religions in the developing world….

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  • Moderator could you kindly delete the above comment please as it’s now out of context in relation to a post that seems to have been removed.

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  • alzee 27/02/12 #

    the pope is right.any person in relationship with someone that is infertile should terminate the relationship and seek a fertile partner instead of wasting valuable time and money on whacky science that may or more than likely may not work.

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  • I’m going to avoid the bile around here but let’s make a few points.
    The pope and the church has always promoted sex within marriage and procreation by natural means. Messing with any of these elements is wrong from the churches stance. The church will welcome and care for all no matter how conceived. Contrary to popular belief the church is bigger today than ever before, and growing quicker than ever. There are more priests today than ever.
    For those with problems the church approves systems such as Napro. Dr Boyle is I think a specialist in Ireland. The church takes science very seriously and advocates good science, but are obliged to consider the moral issues. Our Holy Father is indeed a great man and it grieves all practicing Catholics to see the vile thrown at him. But that is to be expected as Christ endured the same on his way to Calvery.

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    • Wrong regarding there being more Priest’s than ever before. Not sure where you are getting your information. My parish now only has one priest who is also parish priest for four other areas. They appeal almost monthly for young men to join the priesthood and indeed my parents have even been approached personally about my brothers. The church is dying out and with good reason as unless it changes it will become defunct in society. ‘the church will welcome and care for all no matter how conceived.” Haven’t seen much evidence of this – the last magdalene laundry in Ireland only closed in 1993 and these children and their mothers were far from cared for and instead suffered abuse at the hands of nuns and priests (fact) So is this from 1993 onwards that this ‘care for all’ started? but abuse claims are still coming to light even today and I doubt this is the ‘care’ you are referring to. Finally ‘messing with any of these elements is wrong from the churches stance’. Exactly – so that therefore gives others who don’t share the churches stance to state their opposition to this and to what the pope believes. Ergo not bile but simply differing opinions.

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    • Well said Christina,How anyone can say that the church welcomes and cares for all is beyond me.
      It saddens me to to see such a staunch supporter of an organization that has turned it’s back on the most vulnerable in society has the neck to come on here spout such crap.

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    • You are correct the Church takes science seriously it has hindered its progress for the last 2000 years. It stopped anatomical studies in the middle ages. It was forbidden to dissect bodies. Of course there is the issue of Ptolemy Vs Galileo. Not to mention IVF and embryonic stem cell research. It is against a woman’s right to choose. It believes in a sky god that answers prayers. It believes that the priests/witch doctors can summon the dead body of a 2000 year old Israelite on a Sunday for the congregation to “eat his flesh and drink his blood” The Catholic Church compatible with science?? You have got to be taking the proverbial here.

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    • In 1978 there were 64,000 seminarians internationally whereas the latest figures are closer to 110,000. Your shrinking experience is true in most of Europe, but not in the world, even the USA is experiencing growth.
      When I referred to care I was saying that babies conceived outside the womb are welcome as all in the church. But in case you think the church docent care, it provides more than 50% of all the care given to HIV worldwide. It is the biggest provider of support to those in need worldwide.
      Individuals within the church have done great wrong and deserve to be castigated. But don’t mix up the message and the messenger. Many love to have a go at the Pope because their own lifestyle is out of sync with what the church teaches, and they don’t like being reminded.

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    • PJ in parts of the world where people are hungry, suffering and uneducated ,religion will thrive because people are unable to cope with their dreadful existence. Once they learn the tools of helping themselves society will abandon superstition to a large degree. As for charity work Hama’s do charity work building schools and hospitals etc. The vast majority of the Catholic Church money goes into Churches and priests salaries and spreading superstition. It is the function of the State to build and run our administration. The main reason Irish politics is so lame is because we all followed Catholicism for so long following it blindly. They did develop a degree of expertise in running schools and hospitals but then again the Soviet Union were exceptional at building public transport. Advanced secular cultures do these things without the mental baggage of being indoctrinated into a cult like organisations.

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    • Pj,
      Weren’t you advocating artificial wombs earlier?? It was me who pointed out to you that this would go against your teaching, as ALL medicine does.
      http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G5331
      As you can see the root word translated to “witchcraft” which exodus 22.16 tells you “thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”, is “pharmakeia” which is also the root word for “pharmaceutical” and to administer medicine / drugs, so plant medicine is out too. 
      Hope you never get ill, your faith forbids you from seeing [witch]doctors..

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  • 2Laska 27/02/12 #

    I am reading all these comments in England and I am shocked at the vicious low abuse being thrown at the Pope. Ireland may feel liberated but it clearly has not left a tolerant people. Be careful about what you wish for. From here it looks like an increasingly intolerant country prone to violence. I will now sit back and wait for the abuse.

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    • Years of the Catholic Church abusing Irish People and even now the Pope just covering it up do have a tendency to make people angry. Not sure what you expect people to say when hurtful comments (to those trying to conceive with IVF) are just thrown out there with little thought on top of everything else. Isolating and stigmatizing those who just want a child to love and care for is just plain wrong. Personally I think it is a better sign of Irish society that people are not taking this kind of rubbish from the church anymore and are calling out the pope for what he is.

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  • 2Laska 27/02/12 #

    Why has my comment posted 20 minutes ago the Journal been censored?

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    • The Atheist communists at the Journal have removed it. They will be knocking at your door to send you to the gulag anytime soon.

      I think most people here have no issue with what people do in their private life, religious secular or otherwise but when a celebrity clown comes on air and makes an idiotic pronouncement he must live by the consequences. That goes for everyone. To quote Ayan Hirsi Ali “Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice”.

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    • Bejazus Cyril, I’ve been follerin yer comments for a long theological spell now but I must admit I’m flummoxed be this one. Would ya be gettin a bit esoteric in your pronouncements like yer man above or is some strange alignment in the stellar expanse causing a urge to conceive outside of marital law. Pull yerself together man!

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    • Dont worry John, a bit of sarcasm never did any harm.

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  • Where are the rest of the comments??

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  • EM 28/02/12 #

    He’s entitled to his opinion and is opinion is obviously and clearly in line with catholic thinking on the matter. You don’t have to agree with him, I certainly don’t. But I also don’t think it’s fair to insult the man because his beliefs are different to yours.

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