So did she gets the award for holding the position but doing a terrible job.nSensible?nnEdna O’Brien? Great author but it’s hardly a male dominated world.nThe organisers need to work out what they are actually awarding.

You see she was chosen by a panel of women.

Thanks for that valuable input, Sean! I am feeling very intimidated by all these smart, well-informed and witty men around her, I think I need an alcopop.

Thanks for that valuable input, Sean! I am feeling very intimidated by all these smart, well-informed and witty men around here, I think I need an alcopop.

Sorry for posting that twice. it’s cos I’m a woman.

Hey Deborah, next time a man gets promoted above you, perhaps you might think weigh some of the cause on you spending all day ranting about your perceived female oppression on news sites instead of working?

All of the other ones

such as….?

Unfortunately, if such a thing were to exist, you would have bra burners chaining themselves to the gates outside and screaming about oppression.

Is a testament to men that these type of extremely discriminatory events can be put on without any fuss from those it targets, or is it patronising in that it’s a case of “ah sure let the little women have their night and award to put on the mantel, sure it’ll keep them from moaning”?

“Is it a testament to men that these type of extremely discriminatory events can be put on without any fuss from those it targets”

This part made me laugh. Have a look at men’s treatment of women over the last two centuries for a ‘testament to men’.

“is it patronising in that it’s a case of “ah sure let the little women have their night and award to put on the mantel, sure it’ll keep them from moaning”?”

From the sounds of how you are all talking, yeah. Go read this: http://www.statcentral.ie/viewStat.asp?id=192 until you see why we need bloody need a women’s awards for women to be acknowledged and applauded for succeeding in a man’s world. I presume the dismissive and patronising responses are because you don’t know anything about women’s struggles in the last 100 years?

Lol.

When women have ruled over the world for thousands of years and have kept men down and stopped them from being able to contribute to society – then yous can have a men’s award :P

Eleen, we don’t live in the past, we live now.

If we behaved as though the past was still with us, wouldn’t we give an award to every Catholic who manages to become literate because they’ve overcome the penal laws?

The present isn’t completely divorced from the past – it’s not like we had a few big protests in the 60s and all of a sudden life was perfect.

It’s not been that long since women got any rights at all, and it’ll take a lot longer before things are anyway equal. Things like this take time.

Looking forward to the awards for male nurses & teachers. When are they on this year?

Not sure, Chuck. Why don’t you organise an awards ceremony? I’m sure the male nurses and teachers feel very intimidated and vulnerable in their jobs, being the only men there and all. It’s a real achievement for them to succeed in these professions despite all the persecution and exclusion they have experienced over the decades.

I’d imagine the main stick male nurses and teachers get is from other men? Yanno, “don’t be doin a woman’s job” sorta thing.

Deborah, I don’t organise gender-based awards because I think collectivism is stupid. I don’t think there is some mystic link shared by half the population of the world just because they have the same chromosomes.

I’d love to see some evidence for your implied claim that women feel “very intimidated and vulnerable” while doing jobs like President, Attorney General and State Pathologist. Unless, of course, you believe in zombies?

Imagine all you like Eleen, but I’ve heard plenty of women cast aspersions on male childcare workers. I’ve also heard (this may shock you) that women give stick to other women too.

“Deborah, I don’t organise gender-based awards because I think collectivism is stupid. ”

Glad to hear that you are the only person here to think outside the box. Good on you.

“I don’t think there is some mystic link shared by half the population of the world just because they have the same chromosomes.”

Me neither.

I’d love to see some evidence for your implied claim that women feel “very intimidated and vulnerable” while doing jobs like President, Attorney General and State Pathologist.

What is the ratio of male presidents/attorney generals/state pathologists to female ones? Why is the ratio so uneven?

Unless, of course, you believe in zombies?

Ah bless.

“Imagine all you like Eleen, but I’ve heard plenty of women cast aspersions on male childcare workers. I’ve also heard (this may shock you) that women give stick to other women too.”

If male childcare workers are feeling discriminated against, there are laws to protect them and they should file complaints. Or maybe someone should organise an awards ceremony for male childcare workers?

Women give stick to other women too? Oh. I thought all women were best friends. Thanks for opening my eyes :)

Deborah, replying to sarcasm with sarcasm just shows that you have no point to make.

As for your point that male childcare workers should simply complain if they are discriminated against, I have this to say;

1. They can’t complain about parents who choose not to leave their children in a creche because it’s run/staffed by men

2. Why don’t you take that attitude with women?

Selective equality from a self-declared feminist. I’m so surprised (that’s sarcasm again)

What is the ratio of male presidents/attorney generals/state pathologists to female ones? Why is the ratio so uneven?

There’s only one of each of these so…….

“Deborah, replying to sarcasm with sarcasm just shows that you have no point to make…Selective equality from a self-declared feminist. I’m so surprised (that’s sarcasm again)”

So, do you have a point then?

“As for your point that male childcare workers should simply complain if they are discriminated against, I have this to say;
1. They can’t complain about parents who choose not to leave their children in a creche because it’s run/staffed by men”

Yes they can.

“2. Why don’t you take that attitude with women?”

I do.

Ok, seeing as you are being pedantic:

Out of all the past and present presidents/attorney generals/state pathologists, how many of each position has been held by men and how many by women? And then explain the difference.

Right, maybe it was too hard for you to follow. My point was that men getting slagged by other men in no way negates the stigma that men have to face when doing woman-dominated jobs

1. Men can NOT take action against parents who refuse to patronise their creche (or anything else) any more than black taxi drivers can sue racists who won’t get in their cab or female plumbers can sue homeowners who won’t hire them. That’s a stupid thing to say.

2. You obviously don’t take a put-up-or-shut-up attitude with women, since elsewhere in your comments you talk of women being “very vulnerable and intimidated” simply by the presence of men, and your whole reason for commenting here is to defend awards given to women for having the jobs they have.

The difference is partially explained by historical impediments to women obtaining certain jobs (although I have doubts as to whether President was ever one of those) but the operative word is ‘historical’. When women today complain about how things were in the 1950s they are simply making excuses/demanding special treatment.

These awards are a manifestation of that desire for special treatment. Left to fester, that attitude lowers the bar for women in all areas of life, which makes the achievements of individual women less impressive.

You say you abhor collectivism and then you indulge in gender-wide backslapping.

“Right, maybe it was too hard for you to follow.”

Ha, now you have ruined what could have been a nice debate. Is your accusing me of being too dim to follow and dismissing my points as ‘stupid’ supposed to be constructive? I feel like I am in the playground again having my pigtails pulled.

See ya, Chuck. I’m off to cry girly tears.

So your sarcasm is ok but mine isn’t? I feel like Im in the playground again laughing at the bully who got beaten up

Read this when you grow up, you could learn a lot from her (and so could the Guardian)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/11/nicky-moffat-highest-ranking-woman-army

Chuck, chill.

You know, I’ve had plenty of evidence of women being horrible. That’s not too shocking to me at all. But from what I’ve seen, it’s been mostly guys bullying other guys for not choosing acceptable careers.

They sure are :-)

Oh David.nVery brave.

And the award for the most original and intelligent joke goes to…

In fairness Deborah, at least that would be an award based on merit and not what is between the person’s legs and how they’ve benefitted from discriminatory legislation, like the ladies in this article.

Let me get this straight: you think all these women are only there because they’ve been allowed to get there? So, are there any women of merit out there in the professional world then?

Deborah, if we bring in quotas we’ll never know. That’s the problem.

I never said anything about quotas. I am responding to the ridicule thrown at women for being women, needing an awards show and apparently excluding men in the process. Wolfgang is not talking about any women who are in their positions due to quotas.

They don’t “need” awards for having their jobs. They are already getting paid. The ridicule is being thrown at the idea of women getting awards for being women. It’s warranted.

“They don’t “need” awards for having their jobs. They are already getting paid. The ridicule is being thrown at the idea of women getting awards for being women. It’s warranted.”

Ah so you are the ridicule sheriff who decides when it’s warranted.

The reason that these awards exist is because these women are an exception to the norm. Hopefully they won’t always be. I’m still waiting for you to answer my question about the ratio of men: women in those powerful positions. So, you think women and men have always been equally represented and respected in the professional world? Do you think blacks and whites have always been equally represented too in American society for example? Do you resent award ceremonies for African American achievements?

No one “needs” awards. Do you get annoyed by every award ceremony?

No Deborah, I just get annoyed by the pointless, smug, exclusionist ones.

I’m black (well, half) and don’t need any lectures on racism. And yes, I resent awards ceremonies for “African-American” achievements. I don’t think their American-ness needs to be qualified any more and my Irishness. I think that they & I are perfectly capable of winning awards amongst the general population, rather than shallowing the waters to hand out some statuettes to black faces because some people like the optics

You’re doing the transparent feminist trick of mentioning history to pretend that women are discriminated against today. Yes women were discriminated against in the past. But as I outlined above; the past was in the past. It’s no longer the case.

If you insist it is then name me some women who are/were paid less for doing the same job as a man. In Ireland and in recent times, please.

I always imagine it has more to do with the attitudes and habits of society (which take longer to change). Even if everything is equal in law (which is pretty dubious, but on the whole it is), there’s still a whole lot of other factors that come into play. Many of them may be subconscious from the social conditioning we’ve all had since we were born – but they are there and they take much longer to change.

There definitely is prejudice against women in certain areas of society, and there are also prejudices against men in others. In this case, it may be silly to have such an award for women, but I’m not so sure. If women only account for such a small percentage of the “business elites” and the government and the likes – it seems highly unlikely that it’s simply because they don’t care about it or aren’t good enough to get there. It’s more likely that there are still barriers – however invisible – to their advancement.

The WORST thing you can be is blind to this sort of thing. It’s dangerous to think that just because things seem equal on the surface, society is actually equal. This goes for everything else too, not just for women.

yep totally sexist and discriminatory

You should win an award for the most gratuituous use of the word ‘vagina’ in a single post.

Gagsy, you’re not the first person to nominate me for gratuitous vagina use and you won’t be the last!

or maybe too early for your sense of humour…. eh?

Gosh, some of them are very articulate, aren’t they?

(Sorry Deborah, agree with everything you said).

“Deborah Byrne liked feminism” hohoho not touching this one with a 40 foot barge poll.

Feminism is only concerned with forcing equality when it suits women and then recoiling in horror when things such as increasing father’s rights is brought up or indeed claiming it as an attack on women.

Although, with that being said, most feminists drop the act when they’re over their ex and have a new man’s attention.

Stop with the feminist gibes, you guyses. It hurts our feelings :’(

“hohoho not touching this one with a 40 foot barge poll.”

hohoho, the classic feminazi accusations. Wolfgang, you appear to know very little about feminism or at least the reasons why I am a feminist. Feminism if done right would be good for men AND women in my opinion. I’m all for paternal rights. I don’t want to force men down but to raise women up and for there to be equality across the board. Just because you’ve met some women who are fair weather feminists, that doesn’t make every feminist one. Or does it? You tell me, you seem to know lots of stuff!

Classic response, Antho. Do you respond like that when someone doesn’t find your racist jokes funny too?

(That one was for you, Anthony O Rourke.)

Deborah, I didn’t post on this point. and I don’t understand what you mean, any chance of hearing your point in English? I don’t know why you brought the racist word into this?

Wimmin & Technology eh???

In fairness, the only female TD who isn’t utterly shite is Olivia Mitchell and sure she was caught with her hand in the jam jar so won’t be handed any awards any time soon.

Mary Mitchell O’Connor could be given an award for “Most Desperate” though, going by her pre-election behaviour and her pleading with any woman she can find at FG meetings to run for the party, regardless of how good or interested they actually are.

Moan Burton could get an award for her managing to get re-elected in spite of how utterly boring and annoying she is.

I’m not saying the calibre of the men in the dail is much better but the women there are utterly dreadful. Could be worse though, Ivana Bacik could have a seat.

I shudder at that thought.

Yes, and are these TD’s utterly shite because they are women? Or because they are shite? Surely using your argument above they should be judged on their ability and not on what is between their legs?

Deborah, its a pretty racy suggestion (and kudos for that) but I think judging female TDs on whats between their legs would at least breach some Dail procedural rules. And who’d be the judge?
Is this thinking outside the box?

Lol Gagsy 99. Just responding to Wolfgang comments :)

“In fairness Deborah, at least that would be an award based on merit and not what is between the person’s legs and how they’ve benefitted from discriminatory legislation, like the ladies in this article.”

If painting is such a male dominated world then I suggest women go out and paint and other women buy them.